320: Julie Muir – Photography business growth strategies from a successful wedding celebrant

320: Julie Muir – Photography business growth strategies from a successful wedding celebrant

 

Andrew Hellmich: Hey, it's Andrew Hellmich here. I'm down at Foresters Beach, not far from where I live, at Terrigal, and I'm just meeting up with Julie Muir, who is an Irish celebrant, but living in Australia now in Newcastle, and she was down on the Central Coast doing a wedding just now. She's just actually walked out of a wedding next door to where we're sitting at the cafe. And Julie is a regular listener to the podcast. You might remember a shout out for her a couple of weeks ago, maybe even a month ago now, we bumped into each other at this very cafe, and she was down here. So I said, "Look, let's catch up and look, why don't we record something as well?" And the beautiful thing about Julie is that she is one of these people that actually implements what she hears on the podcast, which just, yeah, makes me, me so happy. Not only that, she's an amazing woman. And I thought, not being a photographer, let's take a chance. Let's do something different for the podcast. Let's interview someone else that works within the industry but isn't a photographer, and see how they're attracting their clients, what they're doing to grow their business. So I'm rapt to have her with us now. Julie, welcome.

Julie Muir: Hi, Andrew. How's it going?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, good. How was the wedding?

Julie Muir: It went really well. I was really happy. Whenever I finished a wedding, the endorphins are flowing, and I'm feeling full of love right now.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, first of all, why celebrant? Because you used to have another job, so you were an event manager full time, and you decided to leave that behind and become a celebrant. And I believe you've just gone full time.

Julie Muir: That's right. In November last year, I quit my day job, and I'm now following my passion, which is to be a full time celebrant. I just love ‘love’, and I love marrying people and telling their love stories. Yeah, it's a wonderful job.

Andrew Hellmich: What about financially? Because, I mean, you're married, I'm guessing you have a mortgage, you probably have car repayments and all those sort of things financially, like, did you just say, "Right. I'm going to risk it all and go for it."

Julie Muir: I had a very understanding boss who let me go from five days a week to four days a week to three days a week as I was building my business, but she wouldn't let me go less than three days. So at some point, I had to make the leap, and that's what I did. So luckily, I have a supportive husband as well, and I just feel that, you know, if I want to do this, I need to put all my energy there. And so I wouldn't say I'm on full time wages just yet, but I'm heading in the right direction.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. What was it that had you believing that, "Okay, I can stop the three days. I'm going to quit the day job, I'm going to go full time."

Julie Muir: Probably the volume of bookings like I was working a lot of hours, I was working my day job, and then I was working every evening, meeting the couples in every weekend, and it kind of wasn't sustainable, and I knew all the signs were pointing in the right direction, so I had to jump.

Andrew Hellmich: Also, okay, I don't know a lot about celebrants. And how many bookings you do in regards to photography, when compared to photography, so how many couples do you need to book to have a sustainable business?

Julie Muir: Well, it depends where you price yourself in the market, of course, but I would be booking a wedding every Saturday, and probably, unlike photographers, a celebrant, can do two weddings in a day. Now, it doesn't always work out, because most people, as you know, want to get married at 3pm on a Saturday, but there are times where I might be able to do a 1pm and a 4pm especially like up in the Hunter Valley, where the venues are close together. So you got to take those opportunities when you can. And yeah, so ideally, I'll book one every Friday as well, and if I'm lucky, on a Thursday, and then I kind of complement that with the odd baby naming on a Sunday as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so do you do things like funerals?

Julie Muir: Yeah, funerals, baby namings, housewarming, anything you want, life is to be celebrated. So, yes, we must celebrate all the occasions in our lives.

Andrew Hellmich: Can you give me a ballpark figure of what a couple would pay to have a celebrant?

Julie Muir: Yeah, well, I'm up around the top end of the market for Newcastle. It is a bit location specific. I feel like the Melbourne celebrants are really leading the way in what they can charge, but in Newcastle Hunter Valley, so I'm over $1,000 and I'm sitting kind of at the top, but I would like to see more celebrants up and over that figure, because it's very hard to make a livable wage on less than that. And unfortunately, in our industry, it might be the same for photographers. There's a lot of sort of amateur hobbyists in the industry, and when they sort of charge low prices, it kind of de values what we do. So I'd like to see more emphasis placed on the ceremony and the celebrants. And we're starting to see a change now. I think in the past, you know, people would maybe sit through a boring ceremony, be looking at their watch, wondering when the bar was going to open, whereas now, I think couples can expect more and want more and understand that the ceremony, a good ceremony, will set the vibe for the whole day.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay, so around $1,000 so like, do you have a target? Like, is it 100 clients in a year? Like, is that the target? The six figures?

Julie Muir: I think I would love to do 90 to 100 weddings a year. At the moment, I'm doing about 65 a year. So I have room for growth. The problem is, up at the 90 to 100 you're really hustling. You're hustling hard. So it's that fine line of keeping your customer service high and maintaining the relationship with my husband and the work life balance and seeing my friends and all those things. So it is for every celebrant, so kind of about finding the sweet spot that you know, depending on their circumstances.

Andrew Hellmich: Totally get that. So with things like baby naming, and you say, house warming, and, are they all $1,000 or no?

Julie Muir: No, I wish, no. You could probably, you know, like the market dictates, but maybe, like, $250 for baby naming, maybe a bit more. You know, it's just little fillers, all these little things. I've just started this. I'm always looking for new ways to make money. I've just started a side hustle where I'm trained now as a prepare-enrich facilitator. So I can give, it's not counseling, because I'm not a counselor, but I can help the couples with pre-marriage education like a course. And because, really, I think a lot of couples forget that they're not just planning for their wedding day, but they need to prepare for their marriage ahead. And I also make a little bit of eco confetti, because that's in line with my, you know, environmental values.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, isn't that just rice?

Julie Muir: That kills the birds. You can't throw rice anymore. Eco confetti, so like dried rose petals, that kind of thing. You don't want plastic, you know, save the oceans. So, yeah, I'm always looking at, you know, ways to basically make more money, but it's not to be greedy, to be honest. I don't think there's many celebrants out there making a lot of money. It is one of those jobs where you kind of do it for the passion, but I do still think we deserve to make a livable wage.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, for sure.

Julie Muir: And like any business, we have lots of costs, so many marketing costs. And you know, is there any more directories? And another one's popping up every week, and everyone wants a bit of your money. And, you know, all the automation or everything that you need to run the business, you know, and we need public liability insurance the same, like photographer. So, yeah, it's, you know, I think hopefully people understand it's not about showing up for half an hour and making $1,000, far from it. You know, for every couple I put in about, you know, about 15 hours of work between meetings and travel, and then the ceremonies I write are very personalized. So that takes a lot of work to, you know..

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Julie Muir: To capture that, yeah, to convey that.

Andrew Hellmich: It sounds like you love what you do, that's got to be the basis behind it. You said something interesting that you said you still had people coming in or other settlements coming in and undercutting and having low prices. But isn't there a bit of a bit of a difference in your industry where you have to be qualified, you have to have a certificate to do what you do?

Julie Muir: Yes, we must have a cert for in celebrant-cy. And it's probably a lot more involved than people realize. So a lot of people have the idea to become a celebrant and then never actually end up getting qualified. It's only a search for, but it's really quite a surprise how much is involved. But in a good way, that so far is, you know, raising the standard of the industry. And in a way, it means that all the new celebrants entering the industry are of a pretty high standard. And we're also encouraged to be part of professional associations, and that keeps the standard high. You know, we have ongoing professional development that we must do every year.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So does anyone set like base prices, or does anyone suggest to you that you shouldn't be under $700 for example?

Julie Muir: My suggestion is never charge less than what the registry office is charging. So the registry office in Newcastle closed a few years ago. So if Newcastle couples want to get married, they must go to Sydney, to the Parramatta registry office, and there's a different price for during the week. I think it's like about 450 dollars, and that's the weekend, maybe $530 so that should be the minimum. Bearing in mind that at the registry office, they pretty much just have a standard script, and they insert two names here. So anyone who's doing any kind of personalization should be at least that and more.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, when that makes $1,000 look cheap.

Julie Muir: I like to say, you know, the price is what you pay and the value is what you get. You know, there are cheaper celebrants than me in my market, but I am confident in my product. You know, it's kind of nearly it's that intangible feeling. It's like I create a space that allows people to feel all these emotions. You know, I want them to laugh and then cry and then laugh and then cry again. And that's not very easy to do.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, let me change the subject and talking about marketing, because I know that you are good at this stuff, and I imagine in your game, if I can call it that, it's very similar to photography, where you have heaps of competition. I mean, you must be faced with a lot of competition out there. Do you find that when a couple comes to you, they're looking at two or three or four other celebrants, or do they come to you because they've already connected somehow and they're booking you?

Julie Muir: I feel that they're definitely reaching out to multiple celebrants, and then they might even be meeting two and then maybe picking their top one.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Julie Muir: So just because they contact me doesn't necessarily mean it's a done deal.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and is that initial contact? Is that coming via, mostly for you, via referral or email, via website? Is it a phone call? How are people finding you?

Julie Muir: The contact form on my website is how I get most of my inquiries. And I have a lot of video on my website, and I've really honed my branding to focus in on my target market. I have a very clear picture in my mind of my avatar, of my target couple, and the more that I speak to them, you know, this is marketing 101, but the more that I have honed my copy on my website, the more that I'm attracting basically my ideal client. So something is working.

Andrew Hellmich: So who's your ideal client? Who's your avatar?

Julie Muir: So generally, I attract a lot of Sydney couples with a kind of higher budget. Certainly, the photographs are very important to them, so they're normally booking quite high end photographers as well. They normally have a budget for a stylist as well. Everything needs to look nice and feel nice and it needs to be modern. They are generally professional, so they're very modern, but their parents might be a bit conservative, and they're looking for someone who is relaxed, but not a comedian. There are some celebrants in my market who are, you know, a little bit more out there than me. I'm going to say I'm a little bit more vanilla than that, but it kind of, you know, I'm attracting the type of couples. There's plenty of couples that are attracted to me and my vibe. You know your vibe attracts your tribe.

Andrew Hellmich: So okay, so you've got a clear picture of this person or these people, yeah. How do they know that you're talking to them?

Julie Muir: Well, funnily enough, a while ago on my contact forum, one of the questions that they must answer is, describe your perfect wedding in three words. And so before I've even sent them a quote email, they're telling me what's important to them. So they will either say fun, relaxed, romantic, whatever it is. And then once I know those three key words, I can slightly adapt my pitch or change my quote accordingly. And then over time, I've built up a whole database of keywords, and I can see the popular words over and over, and then they're what I can use then in all my copy and all my communications.

Andrew Hellmich: So you have pre-formatted, ready to go emails using those adjectives.

Julie Muir: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: You only tweak the copy.

Julie Muir: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: I love that.

Julie Muir: The other thing that I do is I send a video, so a personalized video. So I do use a software called BombBomb for this, and it's a paid software but it has really revolutionized my business. So what I do is I have a little whiteboard and I quickly scribble their name on it. So Hi, Mary and John, or John and Matt, and I hold it up to the screen, and I start my video waving. And they can see that their name is on the video. And I do, yeah, a very personalized video saying that I'm available on their wedding date, and I would love to be their celebrant. And this is a little bit more about how I work, and I have a little bit of a spiel, and then I personalize it. If I've worked at their venue before, I'll mention something about that. And this is different, though, when I send my quote email, I don't just put a link to the video, because, you know, people may or may not click on that. What it is it's kind of a screen grab, like an iFrame with a big play button in the middle, and they can see me waving for two seconds, so it's nearly like a little gif, and they can see their names. Basically, the click through rate is 100% they just always click on it because they know that it's for them, and it's not too spammy. People are curious and yeah, so imagine you're a couple and you've sent out five quotes to celebrants, and then you get five emails back. But mine contains a video email personalized to them. It works very well.

Andrew Hellmich: I've got to say, I've actually experienced this from you, and this is, this is one of the things that I thought, "Okay, we've got to get together and talk." So you sent me an email because you wrote a review, and then I think that was the email received from you telling me that you left the review. And like you said, it was a large looking GIF, and it was you waving. So I was really clear that you were waving to me with a big smile. But I couldn't hear anything because it's just silent. And I had to click the play button to hear and then I had you waving, "Hi, Andrew, Julie here." And you know, it was just such a nice email to receive. And then I straight on, "Hey, how'd you do this?" And then I found out this BombBomb website, but it's not cheap, is it?

Julie Muir: I kind of set it and forget it. Now my accountant would kill me not knowing my cost, but I feel like it's around $50 a month. Yeah. So significant investment. But probably, of all the software that I use, this is my favorite. This I feel yields the most return. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Well, I've used Loom, and we've talked a lot about that on the podcast. This is like another level altogether, and I think that the best thing because I tried to emulate what you did straight away, I was thinking, 'How could I do this myself with Loom?' And I just couldn't find a way to do it. The fact that you have that gift with you, waving and smiling, that was the clincher. Like that was worth the 50 bucks straight away.

Julie Muir: I think so. And my couples think so. And they tell me, straight away, they messaged me back. I loved your video. You know, that's pretty much the standard response.

Andrew Hellmich: Really?

Julie Muir: Yeah. So it's very impactful.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so when you send these videos, and I think every, for anyone listening should be doing this like, and if you don't want to invest in BombBomb straight away, at least do Loom videos, just to test it out and take a screenshot of the video, if you haven't got the gift. But when you send these out, are you asking the couple then to call you, to email you? What do you ask them to do next?

Julie Muir: Well, funnily enough, as my business has grown and my marketing has got more honed, I get a lot of couples that will actually book me without meeting me now.

Andrew Hellmich: Because of that video?

Julie Muir: Well, you know, and because my website is good and you know, everything's coming together, they feel confident because they feel like they know me, even though we've never met. So my voice is strong. You know, my brand voice is strong. So, yeah, it's about, well, about 30% and as I progress my business, that figure is going up.

Andrew Hellmich: Hang on. So what's 30%?

Julie Muir: Book me without meeting me.

Andrew Hellmich: All right.

Julie Muir: So I send them the booking form in the quote email, and they just return it straight away.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, hang on. So you get an inquiry?

Julie Muir: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: And what is that inquiry? Is it like a photographer inquiry? How much does it cost? Is that what it is?

Julie Muir: No, I get very engaged couples, like, you know, people that are really, I get lovely spiels. Like, I don't get that, many of those give me the price. But you know what, even if I do get them, I don't get offended, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Is the pricing on your website?

Julie Muir: I have put from $900, because midweek I will go cheaper. So to be honest, they're already qualified. By the time they come to me, they already know that I'm close to a thousand and the price isn't a sticking point.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So you get an inquiry. It's a nice inquiry. They've got an idea of your pricing. You send your video reply.

Julie Muir: Yeah, video and a quote email. So the video, sorry, there's two ways to do it. The one I sent you was just the box. And the other way to do it is I can embed it in a normal email and this text as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, that's what you did to me.

Julie Muir: Oh, okay.

Andrew Hellmich: So I got the video gear with some copies.

Julie Muir: Okay, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So you would actually have your quote there.

Julie Muir: Yeah, I also attach, like, my booking form for them to look at. And then, you know, like, about 30% will fill out the booking form straight away, and the other 70% will opt for a meeting first, which I offer them. So I'm encouraging them to meet for no obligation chat, and I have very high conversion rates from those meetings. So say, out of 100 couples, I would probably only about 97 would, out of 100 would book me after our first meeting.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Julie Muir: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, that's awesome.

Julie Muir: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: That's great.

Julie Muir: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: So, just so we're clear, so we understand. So you send your video, you've got your booking form, pricing everything there, because you have all the details you need. Then from your contact form, I imagine. So where it is, what time, what date.

Julie Muir: Exactly. I just need to know yet the location, probably not even the time, but yeah, the location and the date basically. It's always about the date, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Julie Muir: I can only, yeah, it's always about the date.

Andrew Hellmich: Do they check the calendar see if you're free, or they just..

Julie Muir: They submit their date and location, their keywords on the contact form, and then I email them back to say that I'm available.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay, and then how do they pay?

Julie Muir: Well, I'm mindful of my costs, and I haven't made the leap yet to anything fancy, so I just asked them to do a bank transfer.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you put your bank details.

Julie Muir: Just put my bank details on the bottom of the booking form, and I say to them that I need the booking form, and when the money hits the bank account, then their date and time is locked in.

Andrew Hellmich: Love it. And so 30% of people actually doing that without a face to face meeting, but you would still have a face to face meeting once they're booked to plan the ceremony.

Julie Muir: Oh, yeah, at least one.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. But if you can cut down on the amount of time beforehand, even better for you.

Julie Muir: Even better.

Andrew Hellmich: And do you ask them to pay in full?

Julie Muir: I just get them to pay the $250 deposit, and then I get them to pay the balance. So that's the biggest chunk of it when I give them the final draft. So that isn't a fixed time, but it's normally about a month before the ceremony.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, great, awesome. Well, I love this. This is so good and so out of all the software you use, out of everything you do, that BombBomb service is the best.

Julie Muir: That's the one that I don't resent paying when it comes up for renewal. Some of the others, I'm always thinking, "God, is this value for money?" But no, I have no hesitation in recommending it. And I'm now starting to get a bit more creative and using it for other things. So I am going to now start sending video messages to the photographers after I work with them. And there will be lots more applications, if I really think about it.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it.

Julie Muir: Who doesn't love receiving a video email? You can send Christmas cards like that, you know, if you have the time to do it.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's so good.

Julie Muir: So much better than a spammy email, junky thing coming through.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's good. So when you do this, I mean, being a male, it feels like it would be a little bit easier to just jump in and record a video. I mean, even if I'm unshaven, do you have to do the eye makeup, put a bit of lippy on, do the hair, put a nice blouse on?

Julie Muir: Well, funny, you say that I'm getting a little bit more professional. So I have actually bought a lighting setup on eBay, and it just sits beside my desk, and I just turn it on, and it's just a very nice bulb, especially because at night time when I'm sending a lot of my videos, it's quite dark. But no, I don't think my couples expect me to be dressed up or have makeup like often when I go to our first meeting, they're casual. I'm casual, so I don't think I need to be looking too corporate. I mean, they know from my website, they know from my gallery that I dress up for the wedding day, obviously. So I don't think it's necessary for the meetings or for the BombBomb videos.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, let's say you get an inquiry. Now on your phone, that phone buzzes. You got an email. It's an inquiry. When do you want to get that BombBomb video to them?

Julie Muir: I can do it on the run. So there's an app as well. So if I'm out and about, like, I actually received an inquiry while I was at the wedding today.

Andrew Hellmich: Not during the ceremony, I hope.

Julie Muir: I had the phone on silent, thankfully. Yeah, so before I even head back to Newcastle, I can respond to that. Now, if I want to be really quick, off the mark.

Andrew Hellmich: And so is that you would normally do?

Julie Muir: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: I guess if you're out with your husband, what's your husband's name?

Julie Muir: Cameron

Andrew Hellmich: So if you're out with Cameron, would you say, 'Hey, can I just reply to this?'

Julie Muir: Yeah, I do. And or I might even just say, because I might not do the full quote email, I might just say, "I just got your message. Thank you so much. As you can see, I'm out in a bay with my husband, but I'll be back in the office this evening", or, you know, and I'll send you a quote then, and that's enough just to, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes. So you replied. And they know you got a face, they got a name and a smile.

Julie Muir: Yeah, they can hear my lovely Irish accent. I'm already, I'm already starting to sell.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I mean, you become the Irish element. Will Cameron get in that video? Like we out walking, or not?

Julie Muir: Sometimes Cameron walks past or suddenly, do you know? Sometimes, when I'm in my office, my dog is there too. And I will, like, turn the camera around and say, "Oh, my dog Sasha is here." People love my dog. People love dogs, you know? So, yeah, it's just about being normal, being authentic, being human,

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. I love it. I love it. So you talked about some other things that you've maybe heard on PhotoBizX and also that you picked up from other places that you're using for your marketing. Let's run through a couple of these things that you're doing to get in front of your clients and to have them book you and connect with them.

Julie Muir: Well, I loved your episode with Stacey Bryant Randall, all about getting referrals without asking. That was the gist of it, and so she really got me thinking. So there's two things that I do consistently now, I send a lot of thank you cards, so I have a spreadsheet, and if anyone gives me a referral, whether it's a wedding coordinator, it could just be a personal friend, basically a photographer, anyone, if anyone gives me a referral, I make a note of it, and then I send a thank you card and a thank you gift. Now, I can't be spending too much money, but normally, like, I'll try and find, like, say, a $20 gift that's been discounted to $10 something like that. And I have a stock of gifts. They're not always the same, so I kind of targeted, if I know photographers recently had a baby, I'll give them maybe a baby gift, you know. So have a stock of gifts, and I try and choose based on, you know, what I know about that person. So, yeah, I think it's a nice touch, and it goes a long way, and it definitely helps me build my relationship with the photographers.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you do this? Is it a handwritten card?

Julie Muir: Yeah, a handwritten card.

Andrew Hellmich: And you send that in the post?

Julie Muir: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you do that whether or not you book the couple?

Julie Muir: No, normally only if they book me.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Julie Muir: Because I'm kind of thinking of it as like an operating cost. But now that you've said it out loud, I probably should be doing it anytime I get a referral.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, even just a thank you card.

Julie Muir: Yeah. True, true.

Andrew Hellmich: Just encourage more referrals.

Julie Muir: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: But I was curious.

Julie Muir: Yeah, that's interesting. And the other thing that I do to build my relationship with the photographers, well, there's two reason i i want to build my relationship with the photographers. One, they're kind of higher up the pecking order than me, like as everybody professional knows there's an order that people generally book in, so it's the venues, the photographers and then me, so I know where I stand. So I need a good relationship with the photographer so that then they are referring business to me. And the second reason is I want the photos, of course, I really want the photos.

Andrew Hellmich: You need them for your marketing.

Julie Muir: I need their photos for all of my marketing, from my Pinterest, from my website, for everything. So for my Instagram, I don't put any of my own photos on Instagram because it's hard enough to get a cohesive look anyway, when I'm using different people's photos, but at least if they're all professional photos, my Instagram is looking nice. So I don't, very rarely, put any of my own photos on there. So yeah, I need a good relationship with the photographers, and I want a good relationship with the photographers. And the other thing that's been super successful for me is that every time I work a wedding, I bring a little goodie bag of treats for the photographer. So in it you might have, like an apple, a drink, like some mints, a chocolate bar, crisps. Over time, I kind of work out if they're the more healthy, like water or unhealthy Coca Cola and sweets kind of person. And yeah, I always give it to them, and I just say, you know, I know you run around and you work all day, and sometimes you don't get fed, even though you're supposed to by the venues, but I know what it's like. You know, for the photographers, they work really hard, and I give them my little bag, and then I don't ask for anything in return, but I think it's implied that I want the photos.

Andrew Hellmich: Bloody amazing. That is so good. Imagine if everyone did that.

Julie Muir: Yeah, well.

Andrew Hellmich: Every photographer must be singing your praises.

Julie Muir: They love it. They often post about it on Instagram, which I kind of wish they didn't, because I don't want all the other celebrants to know my tricks. But nah, I'm kidding. But yeah, it's definitely worked really well. And look, it's in line with my brand. I know it sounds a bit kind of cunning or whatever, but it's not that. It's like, I like, I, you know, my brand values are kindness and that. So it is in line with my brand and who I am and my values.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. Are they blown away every time you do it?

Julie Muir: They're quite shocked. Yeah, they, yeah, like, because it's never happened before. So it's something new in an industry where there isn't many new ideas.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I think I've spoken about this before in the podcast, but there's a car company local to us here, and after the ceremony, they'd come around with drinks for the bride and groom, and then a big thing of mints for all the guests and the photographer for me, and also the couple. And everyone's so blown away just by mints. But look what you're doing. You're going like, way above that.

Julie Muir: Yeah. I mean, there is a cast element, but I still, you know, you just weigh it up, and I think it's worth it. You know, you just..

Andrew Hellmich: Look, if you do that for me, not only would I be rapping, sending you photos, I would be recommending you to every single couple surely, and..

Julie Muir: That's good.

Andrew Hellmich: Has that happened?

Julie Muir: I mean, I don't know if it's specifically because of that, but yes, certainly I get referrals from photographers. Yeah, that I'm really happy with, yeah. The other thing that I do to try and like, add value, not just for my couples, but to build my relationships, is I always recommend your podcast to every photographer that I work with, and it's a great talking point. And I don't know how many of them then go on to do it, but you know, again, it shows that I care, and I'm thinking of ways to make their life easier.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. Thank you.

Julie Muir: You're very welcome.

Andrew Hellmich: I know there are a couple of photographers in Newcastle, Heath and Kylie. So yeah, I don't know if you've worked with it. Kylie shoots portraits, but Heath Wade shoots weddings, so maybe you've bumped into him.

Julie Muir: Yeah, Heath, I've crossed paths with Heath once. I think, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, wow. So I imagine that like, if you work with Heath now, he'd be expecting the apple or the Mars bar and the coat, he's a cyclist, so maybe the water.

Julie Muir: Yeah, that's what I do have to kind of get to know my target market and figure out, yes, are they, like I had one and the photographer was a vegan. And yes, I'll never forget that, so next time, I will know.

Andrew Hellmich: We can't get too wrong with an apple.

Julie Muir: True, the lollies, I think, aren't expecting.

Andrew Hellmich: Vegans, okay, too. Yeah, that's all right, lollies.

Julie Muir: No, I think lollies have animal now.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, do they? Right, I did not know that.

Julie Muir: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: We were chatting about a couple of other things beforehand, and we're talking about reviews because they're important to you. I mean, they're important to everyone, photographers and celebrants. So do you do anything to encourage those reviews?

Julie Muir: Yeah, the reviews are so important to my business. You know, that's your kind of your social proof. I know that a lot of couples, when they're searching for a celebrant, will look at the reviews. I mean, let's be honest, with a photographer, they can see the photos of your work. With a celebrant, it's a little bit more of a leap of faith. And so I do think they rely, you know, on the reviews. And so, yeah, the reviews are so important to me. So obviously, like most people after a wedding, I send my couple an email, you know, thanking them. And part of that process is that I ask them, I give them the link to write me a Facebook review. And that was working great, and I got loads of Facebook reviews. And then I realized, "Oh, sugar, Google is being a little bit neglected," and I need the Google reviews too from my SEO. So I had to come up with a plan. So instead of giving them both the links, I just still give them the first link, the Facebook link. And I'm very lucky, all my couples, they're normally, you know, really happy after the ceremony, and they're only chomping at the bit to do something nice for me in return. So I have very high number of reviews, and when they've done the review, then I'm a little bit cheeky, a little bit devious here, but I send them another email back, thanking them and then saying, "Look, my business mentor has been on to me and giving out to me because I don't have Google reviews, and would they mind giving me a Google review?" But what I do is I copy and paste their Facebook review and say, "It's absolutely fine to just copy and paste this." And of course, I give them the link, so it's making it super easy, so it's just a little copy paste, copy paste. And I've had pretty high success rate with that, and I don't feel like I've annoyed them too much. So.

Andrew Hellmich: That is so good.

Julie Muir: And then the other key thing, of course, is to respond to your reviews. So I make a point on Facebook and Google to responding to every review, and I think ..

Andrew Hellmich: Inside Google and inside Facebook, like, just like when you reply to a comment?

Julie Muir: Yes, but it's public.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes

Julie Muir: It's public, yeah. So I think yeah, that shows that I care. And just because the wedding is over, my relationship with the couple is ongoing, and, you know..

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Julie Muir: I take the time to still reply to their reviews.

Andrew Hellmich: So will you follow up with your couples, you know, in 12 months or two years’ time? And, you know, suggest the idea of a baby naming ceremony, is that far ahead?

Julie Muir: So funny. You mentioned that. So the last line of my, you know, the email I send the day after the wedding, thanking them, the last line is, 'PS, I also do baby namings. I know you've only been married for five seconds, but I'm just planting the seed.' And I think, you know, I hate to be one of those people, like, even from my own experience after I was married, everyone was like, 'When are you having baby? When you having baby?' So it's tricky, but I think the way I ride it with a little bit of sense of humor, a bit cheeky again, I don't think I'm offending anyone, but definitely planting the seed. And a lot of the couples, I end up following their Instagram account, so I kind of know when they have a baby, and I'll reach out to them. And I do still have a relationship with many of my couples. And you know, some of my couples even reach out and want to be friends. I sometimes get myself, my husband get invited to, you know, a dinner party afterwards. And you know, it does bond us being a couple celebrant, you know, intimate things about their relationship, their ups and their downs, the trials and tribulations. And it does bond us in a very special way. I don't have time to be friends with all my couples, but I could be, you know, we have a relationship where we could be. That's the point.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Julie Muir: And I do care about them, and I love hearing when people have baby news and all that. So, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. A couple of things I didn't ask you, which I should have about Instagram. If a photographer sends you photos for Instagram, do you still add filters and stuff, or do you get notes from photographers saying you must use it as it is, or are they watermarked?

Julie Muir: I never add a filter. Out of respect for the photographer. I never, ever would do that. And of course, I always, I always credit them. So yes, like I was saying, you know, it would be nice if I could put a wash or a preset over all of my Instagram photos, but out of respect for the photographers, I would never, never.

Andrew Hellmich: You just use what they give you.

Julie Muir: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: And then you tag them hashtags, and do they respond to that? They must love that too.

Julie Muir: Yeah, I mean, everyone in the wedding industry, it's all about rubbing each other's back and Instagram and tagging everyone. And yeah.

 
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Andrew Hellmich: I wanted to ask you two things. One was, how can we find what you do and see your website? Where is all this stuff online? Where do we find you?

Julie Muir: Well, my business name is just my name, so it should be very easy to Google me. So my website is juliemuircelebrant.com.au, and I'm also on LinkedIn, thanks to an episode.

Andrew Hellmich: Jeff Brown

Julie Muir: Yes, I listened to Jeff Brown, and he's inspired me. I need to tweak it. But I finally got myself onto the platform, and I'm going to be investigating more there. And I'm also on Pinterest. I have a YouTube channel, Instagram, of course, Facebook. I'm everywhere, basically, so shouldn't be too hard to find me, and with my Irish accent, you won't confuse me with anyone else.

Andrew Hellmich: I love, I love. I had links to all those in the show notes. The last thing I wanted to ask you was you mentioned that you do something that's free for your couples that gets a really great response. It sounded a little bit corny when you told me, but you said, like it brings couples to tears. And yes, first of all, what is it? And what's the point of it?

Julie Muir: So at my rehearsals, at the very end of the rehearsal, I just do what I think is a kind of sweet gesture for the couples. I have already made it in advance, but I bring it and I give them an origami swan. And it's all about how I explain it to them. You know, they do chuckle when they see it. They think, what is that? Most of them think, well, half the time, doesn't look like a swan. But anyway, that doesn't really matter. But again, it's about the words that you put two things and the meaning that you imbue. And I explained to the couples that swans are a symbol of longevity, because swans, they mate for life. And basically, I tell them that I'm wishing them a strong and happy marriage, and it's just a very sweet note to end our rehearsal on. And like, yeah, it does so often bring us all to tears, and it's in line with my brand values of being kind and showing them that I care, and also, yeah, reminding them again about it's not just the wedding day and they bite the marriage that's ahead of them.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it.

Julie Muir: You know, super cheap. I mean, it cost me basically nothing. It's just a piece of paper. But, yeah, I think it's important to find ways to, you know, connect with your couples and show them you care. And it doesn't have to be expensive.

Andrew Hellmich: Also, it takes a way for you to pass on those words that you want to pass on and make that connection.

Julie Muir: It's so true. It's merely like having a ritual. In a ceremony, the words are one thing, but in the act of doing, in having something tangible to give them, it adds a bit of depth and a bit of meaning.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I love it. You know all about your brand. You've talked about avatars, your branding, on message, on point, with who your target market is. Have you done a branding course? Have you done a workbook? It's there a website?

Julie Muir: Everything. Oh, I have that many emails coming into my inbox. I don't know what to do anymore, so I'm suffering from overwhelm. Too many sources of input, but I am part of the Wedding Experts. So this is open to not just celebrants, but many people in anyone working in the wedding industry, and they have, again, it's a monthly subscription, but I see it as an investment in my business, and they've actually just recently been taken over, and I expect even better things from the new owners. It's a very exciting time. So the Wedding Experts have a Facebook group, but it's a paid subscription, and when you pay, you get access to the behind the scenes resources, you know, lots of resources about all different topics, like you can imagine, that has been good. I'm a quite a big fan of the Basic Bananas marketing team. I've been to their free workshop, and it really inspired me. Of course, if you want to go further, you have to pay, and I haven't been ready to make that leap yet. As a celebrant, I'm very conscious of my marketing costs, so a lot of these things I just can't afford. But yeah, I, you know, LinkedIn now is full of articles.

Andrew Hellmich: And just reading online, really, it's not one particular book, not one particular coach or trainer. It's just..

Julie Muir: Self-taught. I like to get my information from so many places. It's time consuming, though, because for all the things that I read, you know, you might only find a gold nugget in about 5% of them. Yes, that's the problem. But for every gold nugget that you find, it is worth it, and that's one thing that I love about the PhotoBizX podcast, is that you can change that 5% to a much higher figure. I can confidently listen, knowing that I will definitely not have wasted my time like you know, a lot of these online things that you sign up for are total waste of your time, and I do get really annoyed and really frustrated with that.

Andrew Hellmich: So awesome, Julie. Thank you so much. I'm so glad we did this. And should I tell a listener that I was here yesterday waiting by myself for like half an hour for you to turn up? Listen to this, Julie, she wants to have this meeting and she doesn't even show up. I got the day totally wrong. Leaving messages for you.

Julie Muir: I'm so glad that we were able to reschedule, that we were able to make it work today.

Andrew Hellmich: I still haven't checked my emails to make sure that was my mistake. You told me it was mine. I just believed you. I'm gonna go back and check.

Julie Muir: You're gonna be owing me an apology.

Andrew Hellmich: Julie, thank you so much.

Julie Muir: Thank you for taking a chance on not a photographer. It was really interesting and fun to talk to you.

Andrew Hellmich: Hey, it's Andrew Hellmich here, obviously. As Julie and I were leaving our interview, Julie had to rush off, as you probably heard in the interview, to a rehearsal down the road. And I thought we'd cover a ton, and I thought there was so much value in what she already shared. But two minutes down the road, I get my phone ringing. I'm thinking, 'who can this be?' It's Julie, and she's stressing out thinking "I didn't share this. I didn't share that. I should have shared this. I've got so many other good ideas, but I really wanted to share this one particular idea about leaving reviews", so I knew that we couldn't do it then and there. So we're back on the line. This is a week after that initial recording. We're connected via zoom now, and Julie's sitting in her office. I'm back in my studio, and Julie, welcome back to the podcast.

Julie Muir: Can I say I've been on the podcast twice now? Does that count?

Andrew Hellmich: We can almost say it three times after my rookie error, batteries going flat. So as you were driving off. I mean, I know your mind was in a blur, but the first thing that came to mind was these reviews that you leave for the photographers and the venues. Tell me about what you're thinking there what you do and how this affects your business.

Julie Muir: Yes, so I've built it into my process that the last thing I do on the day of a wedding or the day after the wedding, before I close the file, is that I go on to Facebook or Google or both, and I leave a review for some of the vendors that I've worked for. So I think not many people are really doing this at the moment, and it's always received really well. So it's a little bit difficult with the photographers, because I haven't seen the photos. So I want to keep it genuine and authentic, so their personality and how I enjoyed working with them, and I make it clear that I'm a celebrant, and I leave them a review, and sometimes they reciprocate, which is great, but even if they don't, you know, I'm happy to do it, it kind of builds my relationship with the venues and the photographers, and it's so easy, and it's something I think everyone should do.

Andrew Hellmich: I really, really love this idea, and I think you don't have to be commenting on the photos to make me feel good about myself as a photographer. I mean, if you see me interacting with the parents of the bride or the bride and groom, or the bridal party, and that's in your review, I would be rapt with that, because I know that's going to help me.

Julie Muir: Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's just a really easy thing to do, and probably has quite a big impact in building relationships in the industry, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely, yeah. I'm so glad you rang me to tell me that, and we're doing this now, because as a photographer, I could do this for the makeup artist that's on time, the hairdresser. I could do it for the car people, the venue..

Julie Muir: Definitely

Andrew Hellmich: The caterers, anyone!

Julie Muir: Yeah, it's a big scope. Just depends how much time you want to put into it. But, you know, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

Andrew Hellmich: No way. I mean, if really, if I want to take it to the next level, I could just leave a quick audio recording, upload it to a VA and have them do it for me. I mean, if I really want to get advanced.

Julie Muir: I actually think that as part of the review feature of Google. Now, sometimes when my couples review me, they must be asked if they can upload a photo. So as a photographer, you could really take those other businesses to the next level by doing your review and uploading a photo, potentially.

Andrew Hellmich: Ah, cool. Okay, I love that. That is so simple, so good. And look, yeah, you don't need to be using your VA for this. Like you said, it's a few minutes, a few vendors. That's yeah, that is awesome. That is so good. And just before we started recording, you mentioned something else about Google and Google My Business. So what are you doing there? What's happening there?

Julie Muir: Yeah, there's a relatively new feature, and I think doesn't really announce much fanfare, so it's kind of gone a little bit under the radar. But yeah, yeah, most businesses are already on Google My Business. And the normal features are, of course, the map and your reviews and your photos, but the new features that you can also do a post, so not dissimilar to maybe a Facebook post. So I've started putting my evergreen articles, my blog articles, the articles I'm most proud of. I put them there, and they're getting read by people that are finding me through Google My Business. This is what I been doing on my website. They can see some of my content so or if I'm going to an expo, I always put up the event, but then after the expo, I take it down because I don't want it to stay up there. But yeah, there's definitely out there for something.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. So can you have multiple articles there? Is it just one at a time?

Julie Muir: Yeah, I don't think there's any limit. And you can also, ah, that's it. I couldn't fit the full article. It's like a post, but you can put a button with a link, and then I just put, like to read more, and then I link it back to the actual article on my website. So I'm being a bit tricky with it. Yeah, with it. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Perfect. Okay, I guess you can have some keywords in there. It makes you more of the expert in your area.

Julie Muir: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome.

Julie Muir: Yeah. But I use it sparingly while I'm still kind of figuring it out. But I think, yeah, the content that you're most proud of, it's a great place to put it.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. So how did you hear about this?

Julie Muir: Actually, I'm part of a program that's run by the Newcastle government for, I think it's new business owners, but you don't have to be that new. And it's called Business Connect, and it's like a subsidized program from the government, where you get, I think it's about six or eight hours with the business advisor in your area at vastly subsidized rates. So for the whole program, I might have paid like $150 and I'm pretty sure it was my business coach or mentor there that mentioned it to me.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. I thought you're gonna say Alex Vita told you about it.

Julie Muir: Oh, sorry, you're trying to do a nice segue there. But funnily enough, you've mentioned Alex Vita, so he's been a guest on your show two times, and he's an SEO expert, and I wanted to employ someone to help me with my SEO, but I was, you know, I didn't know who to trust, and I was overwhelmed by, obviously, all the emails you get every day from all these random companies. But having heard Alex speak on your podcast, I had the confidence to say, yeah, he's the guy for me, and yeah, he's based in Europe, but obviously that doesn't matter with the power of technology, and I've been working with Alex, and he's been so good in teaching me how to do my own SEO. So he does a lot of the technical stuff, but he also gives me homework, and that's exactly what I was looking for. I'm not interested in paying someone forever and a day, so I want to learn the skills myself, and he's helped me to do that.

Andrew Hellmich: So did you hire Alex to do an audit, or did you hire him to help teach you SEO, like, what's the arrangement?

Julie Muir: Yeah, it's both of those things. Initially, he does an audit to see where you're up to, and then he makes recommendations, and then we kind of figured out the bits that I could do and the bits that he could do. I mean, it's fairly free flowing, and as my knowledge has improved, we've been able to take our conversations to the next level. So I guess he meets you where you're at with your SEO knowledge.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so are you paying him then, like a retainer? Are you paying him for results? Are you paying him per hour?

Julie Muir: I paid him a set fee, and he's been so kind and generous and gone over and above, because my number of questions never end. So he hasn't cut me off yet, so I've got my value out of him.

Andrew Hellmich: That is awesome. That is so good. And I know like speaking to other photographers that are using Alex. The first one that comes to mind is Elle Goss from Always Build Photography. She had Alex do an audit, and because her site was already so good. He said, "Listen, you don't really need me to do your SEO for you. Here's basically 50 things you can do yourself that will help." And next thing, she's ranking on page one. So it was awesome.

Julie Muir: I'm also ranking on page one from my keywords. So feeling very proud, because even though I got Alex's help, I still consider that I did it all myself anyway.

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome. And you're in a super, like we all are, a super competitive environment in Newcastle. And sorry, I'm just being distracted because we're talking about video when I can see your dog up on the couch behind you.

Julie Muir: That's my dog, Sasha. She keeps me, calling me in my office every day. She's great.

Andrew Hellmich: What sort of dog is she? Is that a staffy?

Julie Muir: She's a staffy cross whippet, a bit of an unusual mix. Yeah. Very affectionate dog. Actually, she's my secret weapon. When the couples come to my house for their meetings, she always sidles up, mostly to the men, like a therapy dog. You know, they might not be so comfortable talking about their ideas for the wedding, and then they pet her, and then all of a sudden, they open up, works a trick.

Andrew Hellmich: You're playing mind games with your clients, manipulating them,

Julie Muir: Always looking for that competitive edge.

Andrew Hellmich: One of the things I didn't ask you about when we were doing the interview in person is, is on your website. I don't know if I saw on your website, or maybe on one of your YouTube videos, something about being green or eco-friendly or giving back. How do you do that as a celebrant?

Julie Muir: Yes, well, I am very environmentally aware, and I decided to make it one of my brand values and look for ways that I could communicate that with my couples. And so one thing that I do is every time I take a booking, I have a little party in my office. And then what I do is I actually pay an organization called the Carbon Neutral Charitable Fund to plant a tree for every booking that I take, whether it's a wedding or a baby naming. And what they do is they create, so I pay, I pay for that, and they send the couple a beautiful little email with a little certificate saying that I've planted a tree in their honor, So.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, that is cool. Have you had feedback from couples?

Julie Muir: Yeah, they love it. I often get people that will just spontaneously email me then and say, "I love this idea, and thank you so much for doing it." And I mean, it's in line with my values, and for most of my couples, I think it's in line with their values, and for the ones that don't care, well, it doesn't matter anyway. And, yeah, I just explained to my couples that I do it and to kind of mitigate any of the printing that's involved in the ceremony. It's more, I don't use it really, to sell myself, but it's like after they booked me. It's kind of a confirmation that they've chosen the right vendor. Do you know what I mean?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where's the tree planted? Like in Australia?

Julie Muir: Well, there's different projects all the time. I would prefer it who's in New South Wales, but the current trees are being planted in Western Australia. So that's yeah, that's not ideal. But you know the thought, is there?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah. Are they getting planted to be, like, cut down for timber, or are they?

Julie Muir: No, no, no, more, like reforestation.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, right.

Julie Muir: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Wery cool. And is it expensive for you to do this?

Julie Muir: I think it's about $5 a tree. So pretty reasonable.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Julie Muir: Actually, funny enough that the company, the organization, I should say, they noticed that I was making all these little micro, one tree at a time, kind of, you know, purchases. And they contacted me to say, "Why are you doing it like that way? Why are you drip feeding it?" And I explained to them, yeah, it's every time I get a booking. And yeah, they actually interviewed me for their blog, which gave me more content for me to share, then on my website,

Andrew Hellmich: And a backlink and everything else.

Julie Muir: Exactly, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: How good that?

Julie Muir: Yeah. So good.

Andrew Hellmich: What a beautiful idea. There was one other thing that you mentioned before we started recording that you're doing for clients, something to do with when you invoice them to sweeten, to sweeten the invoice process.

Julie Muir: Yes, I'm mindful that, because I just have a small deposit and then the bulk of my invoice comes about a month before the ceremony, I'm mindful that, you know, even though they will have budgeted for it, and I'm sure the money sitting in the account, I'm just conscious that it's probably, you know, a bit of a blow when you get that lump sum invoice. So I try to be creative. So what I've done is, in the same email that I send the invoice, I also send them a link to a meditation, a meditation I find on YouTube, and it's actually specifically targeting couples getting married, brides getting married. And I just sent a little message reminding them that I know the month before the wedding can be stressful, but just reminding them that I'm here to support them. And also, you know, it's really important that they focus on what's important in the run up to the wedding, and then yet the link to the meditation. So it all kind of ties in nicely.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So when you send that email, is that just copy, or is that another one of your BombBomb emails?

Julie Muir: So it's a BombBomb email. So I don't have to say my little spiel every time it's like the one recording.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, okay, so you can repurpose the same recording over and over.

Julie Muir: Now, I'm not using their names in the video, but by that point, they're so accustomed to my personalized videos, I'd say very few people pick up on the fact that it's actually a read.

Andrew Hellmich: I love that, that's great. And again, but they get to see you again, hear you again.

Julie Muir: Yeah, and reminding them that I care and I support them, and yeah, and just yeah, giving them the meditation. And sometimes they use it in the run up to the wedding, and sometimes they use it on the morning of the wedding as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, cool. Two more things before we run out of time. I can see where we're talking right now, so we've got video on. I can see you're in the same place where you do record your BombBomb videos. Although usually the couch is a bit tidier and the dog's not asleep on the on the pillow behind you, but your face is beautifully lit. I can see you have big blue eyes. You are beautifully lit. Have you got a window there? Have you paid for lighting?

Julie Muir: You're very astute. Yes, I have my window, which serves me well during the day. But if I'm sending BombBomb videos or doing zoom calls, even at night or no, more importantly, my Facebook Lives, my room is pretty dark. So I bought online, from probably eBay or Amazon. It was definitely less than $50 and an additional, I don't even have the vocabulary, because I'm not a photographer. It's like, I'm going to show you, bring it into view. What would this be called? Just a lighting

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it's a soft box, that's it.

Julie Muir: So, yeah, it just helps light my face.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice, because all your videos are well lit. So I thought you must be doing something.

Julie Muir: That's when I can be bothered to turn it on. Definitely, for the Facebook Lives, I find that it's important because, like I said, I share that content on YouTube and everywhere. Obviously calls are just a one off, but if I'm creating content yet.

Andrew Hellmich: Love it. Not to finish on a downer, but, but have you ever met couples and you think, or you get a feeling that 'you two should not be getting married?'

Julie Muir: I try not to think about that stuff. What I focus on is that on that day, they really wanted to be married, and I was the person that got to do it for them. It is a little bit disheartening if I see maybe some warning signs or something, but I try not to dwell on it too much. But also, I don't know if I've told you this, but I've also trained as a Prepare/Enrich facilitator. So it's not pre marriage counseling, because I am not a counselor. It's way cooler than that. It's like, if you like the Myers Briggs or The Five Love Languages, or any kind of personality quizzes, I get my couples to do this online separately, and then they come back, and then it creates a report, and then I help them digest it. So the message that I'm really planting there is that you're not just preparing for your wedding day, but for your marriage ahead. So yes, it's called marriage education rather than marriage counseling. But separately to that, I also provide all my couples with the details of three local providers for marriage counselors, so if they need to take it to that next level.

Andrew Hellmich: So have you used that service, or have you referred people on?

Julie Muir: Oh, I give that to all my couples, so I don't know whether they use it or not, but it's there if they ever need it. Because it might not be, it might be in the run up to the wedding. You know, can be stressful, but it might be a few years into their marriage, they realize marriage is not what they thought it was going to be. But I think unless there's abuse there, I think, you know, most marriages can be salvageable, at least, you know, with the help of professionals, potentially.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah. I'm just curious, because I know that I've and I'm sure the listener, if they're a wedding photographer, has seen or photographed couples you thinking this, 'this isn't going to go well'.

Julie Muir: Yeah, I mean, mostly, I'm really lucky with the type of couples that I attract. So you know, your vibe attracts your tribe and all that. But yeah, there's no guarantee they're going to stay together, of course. I have heard horror stories of celebrants sending a one year anniversary email or card only to find out that the couple have separated. But thankfully, that hasn't happened to me yet.

Andrew Hellmich: Good. Good. Last question. Well, you know what I was going to ask you something business, right? Like, you know 'where do you see yourself in 12 months’ time?' But how about have you ever had an embarrassing moment or a stuff up you'd be happy to share?

Julie Muir: I feel like you've done your research. This is a leading question, Andrew.

Andrew Hellmich: Not at all. I don't know anything.

Julie Muir: So yes, I had a very embarrassing moment of one of my weddings in Bathurst. It had been raining that day. The deck was slippery. Gone from inside, inside to outside, and yes, when I announced the kiss, and I moved out of the way, because obviously, I never want to be anywhere near the kiss when the photographer's getting the photo, I slipped. And I slipped really badly. I slipped legs in the air, bum up and smacked down hard on this deck. And the couple who were mid kiss actually broke their kiss to crane their necks to find out what the commotion was going on at the end of the deck. It was very embarrassing. I really hurt myself. But of course, I was trying to minimize it if, I didn't want to, you know, have any fuss or attention on me. That's definitely not my objective. And so all the guests after the ceremony were, I mean, I recovered quickly. I stood up. We kept going. The groups wouldn't help me up. And after the ceremony, everyone was like, "Are you okay? Are you okay?" And I just said to everyone, "Oh, I'm totally fine. Yeah, no, I'm fine." I got in the car for the long drive home from Bathurst to Newcastle, and I was in my grave, yes, but initially I was so embarrassed, and then I decided, 'You know what, I'm going to own this.' And so I've actually taken that clip. Oh, sorry, there was a video of it. Luckily for me, the photographer and the videographer on the day didn't capture it, because they were focused on the kiss. But there was someone in the audience, and when the guests that had a GoPro and they captured it, and the groom was kind enough to share with me. You know, the couple didn't mind. We had a laugh about it.

Andrew Hellmich: Of course

Julie Muir: Yeah, I held on to it for a while, did nothing with the footage, and then eventually, I said, 'No, I'm gonna put it out there.' Not only is it on my YouTube channel, I'm surprised it hasn't gone viral yet, but it's only a matter of time till I come up in one of those blooper videos. But now I actually am, oh, I actually use a little software where I can do pretty fancy signatures, email signatures. I think it's called, yeah, WiseStamp, I pay for it, but it's not very expensive. And as part of that, you can embed a little..

Andrew Hellmich: GIF?

Julie Muir: Like, yeah, like a frame of a YouTube deal. And so it's now part of my signature, and it goes out to everybody, and so many people comment on it. And rather than making me look unprofessional, it's been the opposite. It's kind of shown that I'm human and that also that I can laugh at myself. So it's actually been a really great tool.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. I love it.

Julie Muir: So many people mentioned it to me. It's really amazing.

Andrew Hellmich: I feel sorry for you going through it, but I love how you like using it now. That's so good. Julie, again, this has been fantastic. I love talking to you. We have to do it again. Let's catch up in 12 months, if we don't catch up before then, and talk about your business, what you're doing and how things are going.

Julie Muir: I would love that. Thank you so much, Andrew, for taking a chance on a, on a non-photographer. It's been very fun.