534: Mary Beth Wood – Setting expectations leads to big portrait photography sales

534: Mary Beth Wood - Setting expectations leads to big portrait photography sales

 

Andrew Hellmich: I first heard about today's guest in a roundabout way. I was contacted by Melissa Rich of Virtually Done Systems, who offers done for you CRM setups for overwhelmed business owners. And we were chatting about a possible interview, and I asked about photographer clients that she's actually helped. And Melissa mentioned Mary Beth, who photographs bad ass woman or badass woman, modern couples and crazy families. And yes, that's exactly what she says in her marketing and I love it. Mary Beth is a boudoir photographer. She's based in Connecticut, and she's been in business for 17 years. She had never written any of her workflow down and was doing everything manually, and she now has her workflow 90% fully automated, and will be able to actually enjoy her maternity leave, which is fast approaching. I took more of a look around, and I loved what I was seeing. From fantastic photography to what looks like a great website and plenty of active marketing campaigns, I immediately reached out and contacted Mary Beth, and I'm rapt to say that she's with us now. Mary Beth, welcome.

Mary Beth Wood: Hi. Thanks so much for having me.

Andrew Hellmich: So is that right? You're about to give birth?

Mary Beth Wood: I am. Everything above is correct. I am due in the middle of November, so I have eight more weeks to go. Very excited, second one.

Andrew Hellmich: And so have you planned, like your business around the birth of the next child. Have you sort of scheduled your shoots? Are you going to schedule a certain amount of time off? How's that all going to play out for you?

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah. So it worked out that the time that I'll be taking off, I normally take off each year, but it will be extended this time. I have a few more shoots to get under my belt, and then there is a cut-off date, and from that point on, it will just be time to focus on me and this baby.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice one, and you've been through this once before because you have another child.

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So does it worry you that you're going to have this time off? Do you feel like, "Okay, it's all going to be there, ready when I get back?" Like, how do you approach this?

Mary Beth Wood: I can tell you, I feel thousand percent more secure going into this maternity leave than I did with my little one, who's only three years old. So it wasn't that long ago that I did this, and very much sort of, you know, people always say you're never ready, and it's true you're not ready, but you can prepare yourself in different ways. And you know this discussion about CRM goes so much into having that feeling of preparation, knowing that when I want to pick back up, it's all ready for me to go. And that was a huge motivation for me to finally, after 17 years, invest in the CRM and take this off my shoulders, and be able to know that a lot of stuff is going to be taken care of, not only while I'm away, but really simple to pick back up once I come back.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So what's your three year old's name?

Mary Beth Wood: Liam.

Andrew Hellmich: Liam. So when Liam was born, did you have a plan to come back and start shooting after, you know, once he reached a certain age, or did you just sort of just play it by ear and see how it worked out?

Mary Beth Wood: We had a plan, and he changed that, and COVID changed that. You know, daycare wasn't available when we thought it would be, he was a super fussy baby that needed a lot more attention than we anticipated, so I was off for a lot longer than I thought. So this one, we're gonna give ourselves all that time and then some, hoping for the best and just expecting the unexpected is what we've learned as parents.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. And so with the money side of things, like when Liam was born, did you say, "Okay, after eight weeks or 12 weeks, I want to be back shooting because we need this income", or wasn't that even a factor?

Mary Beth Wood: It was 100% part of the fall of that that landed a little softer was in Connecticut, they established some unemployment for COVID small businesses. Now small businesses have never been able to acquire any sort of unemployment, but with this new system, that was something that they gave out. So that made it a little bit easier, but the pressure to get back was there because it wasn't even close to what I was making prior, but that was a nice cushion.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And then when I said in the intro that you were doing everything manually, you know, was I being literal when I said that? Like, was it paper and pen?

Mary Beth Wood: I mean, yes, if you asked my husband, he would tell me, when he met me, I had 17 notebooks with 30 wonderful pens strewn across the house and in different places, and then I'd be so confused as to how I couldn't find what this client told me they wanted to buy that one day of you know. And so I have that artist brain, and I very much knew that that wasn't enough to be successful in business. Me, my husband was wonderful, because he's very logic, very numbers. So he started throwing things out like, you know, cost of goods and profit margins and all these big words and phrases I hadn't considered before. So it was a, it's sort of between him, the maternity and just also getting in the last five years has been the most successful by far in my business, leaps and bounds. I couldn't keep up with it anymore on my own, and it's so important to me that my clients feel like they have a boutique experience with me. I might sit down and we can have a conversation and throw the F bomb out, or whatever it might be that's my client telling me, but they're still deserve the absolute best experience, and part of that is me being on top of every single one of their needs, from their need to be seen in a photograph to their need to have, you know, a metal and not a shiny metal, because that's going to reflect in the window that they chose. So that all sort of came together for me to decide to really take control over the back end of things.

Andrew Hellmich: Tell me a little bit about your business, because I said in the intro, and I saw on your website, too, you photograph women. Looks like boudoir is the main thing. But I'm not certain that's the case, because you also photograph couples and families. And I think I even saw some weddings on there.

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah. So it's almost feels like a prior life, but for about the first 12 years, I did almost all weddings, and like anyone else in this industry who's done them for more than a few years, you get burnt out and sort of realize how much time it's taken away from your own life. And so I switched to, I would say, about 90% boudoir in 2017 and I also still shoot families, and I also photograph couples when it comes to boudoir. So those are probably my main three things, with couples and women being about 90% and 10% for families, and it's the families that I love to work with and have known forever and all of that. I'm not out there trying to advertise that as much, but I am happy to work with the ones that I know.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so really, it's a boudoir photography business.

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so how did you find your way into that genre? Like, did you go there purposefully?

Mary Beth Wood: I very much did. So it started with a bride asking me to do boudoir shoot before her wedding as a gift for her husband, as so many brides do. And I said to her, I will gladly do it at no cost to you, because I don't know what I'm doing, and if you want to hope for the best with me, we can do that together. And you know, it turned into something that was so natural. So my soul just felt like, "Ah, we found it." This is what you know you're meant to be doing. And so from that point on, I really shifted my energy, my marketing, my education, into boudoir slowly let those weddings drop off, which is scary, because that was the main income. But now my average for boudoir is probably twice as much as it was per wedding, which is, yeah. So it really has come full circle for me.

Andrew Hellmich: Twice as much profit or twice as much?

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay, so it's way better.

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah, and I only shoot during the week. So I've got my weekends for my family. I only shoot during the day. Actually, only shoot on Mondays and Fridays during the day. So I have all my Saturdays and Sundays for myself.

Andrew Hellmich: You only shoot Monday and Friday.

Mary Beth Wood: Uhum

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, tell me about them. What are clients spending? What's the revenue like?

Mary Beth Wood: So my average sale right now is 7100

Andrew Hellmich: Wow.

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah, no, I know, coming out my mouth, it feels very shocking, because if I could have gotten a $3,500 wedding that would have made my life and then I would have worked 7000 hours for it. The simplicity of what it's become has been amazing. I have the client come in in the morning. They do their hair and makeup, we do their shoot, they go have lunch, when they come back, they see all their photos, we pick them, and we're done. So it's a one day process, 10 to four, with such a fantastic average that I again, it still shocks me. And it started happening last like the numbers just kept going up. And I kept thinking was fluke, and I kept being like, "Oh, this is this great campaign. I can't believe this campaign is working so well. When is it going to stop? When is it going to drop? When are we going to go back to working so hard for not enough money?" But it has continued so.

Andrew Hellmich: Amazing. So when you said, like, it's gone up and up and up and up, was someone in the background pushing? Was your husband? Did you have a coach? Was someone pushing you to increase your prices?

Mary Beth Wood: So the very first turn from digital, like giving people digitals to go to in person sales, I started working with Steve Saporito, and he really changed my mindset, which was really hard to change. He could probably tell you, I was one of the most difficult students he's had. You know, before I met him, I was shooting $99 mini sessions that I couldn't even fill. And I was taking families. I was doing boudoir, I was doing anything that anyone would pay me for, literally and failing. And when I shifted into understanding what I love about in person sales, it's nothing to do with the sales side. It's actually going back to the root of why I love photography, which is having something monumental and large for us to see every single day and be reminded of what is most important in this world, and especially in times like these, when that can be lost or forgotten. These tangible pieces of art are a continuous reminder of what we need to be reminded of daily. You know, as I sit here, I have a 24 by 36 acrylic of my son, so I'm working, and I look up, and then there's that reminder of why I'm working so hard and so to provide that for my clients, for them to see the best version of themselves every day. And you can't argue with it, right? You can't argue, there you are, the best version of you up there for you to review and see and reflect on every day, good days, bad days, everything in between. What could be more valuable than that?

Andrew Hellmich: True, true. I'm getting the impression then that some, or all of your boudoir clients are purchasing, you know, a 24 by 36 print of themselves or acrylic of themselves to go on the wall. Is that the case?

Mary Beth Wood: That's the smallest anyone would ever get. Most of my clients are getting much, much, much bigger pieces.

Andrew Hellmich: I thought, silly me. I thought boudoir clients were taking home like, you know, albums to sit by the bedside or to go locked away. I didn't know boudoir clients are buying wall art.

Mary Beth Wood: Right. So that's a pretty common misconception that we're doing this to create a little black book. There's nothing little about it. There is only big, loud, wonderful displays of women for them to see every day. And why would we put something so important, so valuable away? Why would we tuck it away? Why would we put it in something, it should be out, about and celebrated? And I feel so strongly about that, that I think a lot of my clients feel the same way, or have the same thoughts as you, and then when I kind of explain it, why would we do that when we could have it out and celebrated. Then I've got women they won't put it in their living room. That's my favorite place, because I'm like, "Yes, girl, you are ready for this", but even just having it above their bed in their bedroom. So it isn't for everyone's eyes, but it is very much for their eyes when they wake up and when they go to bed. And you know, while art for boudoir is generally a different look than what you might have in an album, because a lot of my clients do get albums in addition to the wall art. So some of those more racy photos maybe you don't want your mother-in-law scene photos can go in an album, but the wall art appropriate photographs are always done so tastefully that it just, you just don't give it a second thought.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay, so these photos or this art that you're creating for your clients is this done in your home, in a studio, in their home?

Mary Beth Wood: So right now, everything is done in my home. We have a designated bedroom that I shoot out of which is nothing fancy. It's a 10 by 10 space with a futon. I do my sales in my living room. That will change after baby, because he's going to be taking over that room, and we'll go into a studio, which I'm ready for anyway, so it's a nice reason to push myself out into that world. But right now, everything's just done here.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. I said, when you say they're going to go into a studio, you're hiring a space.

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah. So we'll look for, either we'll either rent a house or a space to be able to shoot and sell because, like I was saying, we do everything at once, so it's going to be a certain type of space we need, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it, got it. All right. I'm going to come back to the business side, well, the numbers and the marketing and that kind of thing in just a minute. But I want to ask about the automation that Lisa mentioned, that you had help with. So which CRM did you decide on? And was there a reason for that choice?

Mary Beth Wood: Well, we ended up with Dubsado. We started elsewhere, and we're finding that our needs were being met. But Melissa is an advocate for Dubsado, and she's so wonderful that anything she says, I go with. So, you know, she works with a lot of CRMs, pretty much any CRM you would bring her she could work with. Her favorite is Dubsado. So it was a no brainer for me to go that direction.

Andrew Hellmich: So who were you with before?

Mary Beth Wood: Pixifi

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and then did you know you needed to upgrade that? And then you found Melissa, or you found Dubsado, then you found Melissa?

Mary Beth Wood: No, so Melissa actually set up Pixifi for me. Did everything completely. We worked with them for about three months, and it just continued to not be able to handle my specific needs. So without wasting another month, we just decided to take it all, get up and go and go over to Dubsado. I mean, so much of the work was done already because we had the back end built out, because we've done all that work for Pixifi, but then we just moved it over to Dubsado.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so when you hire someone like Melissa, is it just her, or is it her, does she have team members?

Mary Beth Wood: It's just her.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So when you hire her, I imagine you have to still be heavily involved, because you have to write the emails. You have to write the marketing.

Mary Beth Wood: Yes. So much of it was already done, though, because I was doing it on my own, so I had a lot of the templates that she needed. Because I know what I say to every single person that inquire about a boudoir shoot. I know what I say when I follow up. I know what I say when we're confirming their appointment. So there was less work than I thought, a lot more organization, though, to say, "Okay, I need you to pull all of that and put it in one place." And then there were some things I didn't have that I really realized I needed. So that was work on my end, to create from scratch. But so much of it I already had.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay. So then do you converse with her via email, and you just keep uploading the new, I guess, copy that you want to be included in the workflow.

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah. So she's really good about communication based on what works for me, I guess for any client, I prefer doing Zooms and talking with her and really understanding what I need. And then she'll send me a list and say, here's everything I need. Otherwise, my ADD brain kind of goes like in a million directions, so it's a lot easier to just talk to her, but yeah, she'll give me the checklist, she'll give me the drive link of what, where things need to go, and then continue to follow up as things get sent to her what she still needs, which is great for me, because I'll be like, "Oh, I did it all." And then she'll be like, "Yeah, but there's, like, you know, number seven and 13." And I'm like, "Oh, I didn't even know this existed. I'm on it", you know, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. So what now? What does Dubsado do for you that you know you weren't doing on paper and pen or with paper and pen?

Mary Beth Wood: So the biggest thing is my connection with clients, and there's a lot of it, because they need to know, you know, from their initial email of just me saying, "Hey, you know, got your inquiry" to now that we have our date set, here is the address of where you're going to go, and here's another email to tell you about what to expect, and here's another email to tell you tips on hair and makeup. Here's another email to talk about outfits. I was sending all that stuff, first of all, on my own and all at once, and then wondering why people were missing these key facts, and asking those questions, like, "Yeah, but does my hair need to be dry when I get there" and I'm like, "But I sent you that." It was also with seven other attachments, like the day that you signed up, and I totally overwhelmed you, and I wouldn't even be able to handle that. So that is done logically and strategically at different points that me and Melissa picked together that I thought would be best. Most of my clients book out about four to six weeks before their shoot. So now we have a certain email going at a certain time, and also have texts going out with a reminder of appointments and reminder of my address, that was all stuff I was doing manually. So I still feel like my clients are having the connection to me, but I'm out enjoying the weekend with my family and not sitting in front of my phone or my computer Sunday night, making sure my client is prepped for Monday morning shoot.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, got it. Got it. So what happens when a client replies to one of those emails. Are you still looking after those emails? Are you handling everything with Dubsado? Or does Melissa still look after that?

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah, so it goes into Dubsado, but also goes right to my email. So I always get to have the ability to see their response, which is great. I don't want to feel like I have to go into Dubsado to see if anyone has reached out to me, because I still, of course, want that connection, but it makes it very simple that it will still be in Dubsado if I go in and say, "Hey, what do I need to do today?" "Oh, you got to reply to that person." But if I happen to check my email, I can see that someone has responded to that.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And then do you have to tweak, then the replies, or how the automation if someone does reply to an email?

Mary Beth Wood: It's very rare that I get any replies for that stuff, because it's so fundamental and the same for everyone across the board. But like, for example, I had someone say, "Hey, I got your stuff about outfits. I know this is crazy, but is there any way you would come out shopping with me?" And that's not that's a very unusual request. But then I can, of course, respond to her and say, "Yeah, I'm here, like, let's do it. That sounds great." So I still have that connection. And they're not feeling like they're just getting a robot, automated response, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. What if your email about hair and makeup hasn't gone out yet? And then you have a conversation about hair and makeup via email, and then you know that there's a sequence email coming up about hair and makeup?

Mary Beth Wood: Oh, well, that's actually even better, because then I say, "Oh, don't you worry, on Friday, you're going to get an email with every single tip and trick you could ever need." So it makes me sound very professional and on top of my game, when, in reality, Dubsado is professional and on top of their game, and I know that they're going to get the information that they need.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. Okay, great. So how long did it take, like, once you signed Melissa on, how long did it take to get it all set up?

Mary Beth Wood: I would say about four weeks for the majority of the work. Maybe 75, 80% of the work was done within four weeks. I actually took a little time off from shooting to give my full attention to it, so that should just be noted only because I don't think I could have done it in four weeks if I didn't have that time I was devoting, you know, probably two or three hours a day, and I that still seems like it's probably more than it was. I just wanted to have more availability for her to be there to answer any questions. I think that if I were to look back at the hours I spent, realistically, probably 30 hours to get everything over to her that she needed, and then it was more maintenance at that point. Or "Hey, you know now that we have this going and realize we probably need to ask this other question or send out this other email, can you get me that?" And that was simple, you know, quick, 20 minutes, put something together and send it her way.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So where would you be if you had spent that 30 hours or so yourself setting up the side of like, why hire Melissa to do it?

Mary Beth Wood: Wouldn't be 30 hours. I can promise you that it would probably more be like 300 and that's not exaggerating. Again, my artistic brain knows how to, you know, compose emails and, you know, make a marketing message, but it's almost like creating your own website. We all know we can do it, but we can also pay someone to do it, who really knows what they're doing and save our time and energy. And for me, I knew going into the CRM system, if actually so, to be fair, back in 2020 when I had my first baby, I signed up for Pixifi and tried to do it myself. And it was so daunting, and it was so overwhelming. And I don't think it was because it was because it's Pixifi. I think any CRM, it just is so much work, there's so many details, that it just kept not happening. And then I kept getting my renewal of how it was like, "Hey, you were, you know, you're paying this month again this year", and I'm like, "Great. And I still haven't done anything." So I sort of just said, I need to give this to somebody who does this professionally, who can do it efficiently, her time and energy can be spent so much better than mine would be trying to figure this all out. Just tell me what I need to do, and I'll give it to you. But don't tell me that I need to do it all, because that would be too much.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Got it. Love it. So good. So tell me about ,now, today, let's say you're going to going to be kicking work back off again, and you're about to run a campaign. Do you funnel the campaign responses or the leads through Dubsado, and then do you set that up?

Mary Beth Wood: No, it's all automated now. So the only thing I might need to change is like the web page link where people enter, but that would be it. So like my most popular campaign is Inked Babe campaigns that I start running at the beginning of the summer. So it might be something that I might be one of the first ones I do when I come back. So I would create the page on my website, use what I used last year, switch out images.

Andrew Hellmich: Sorry. Mary Beth, what did you call the campaign I missed that.

Mary Beth Wood: Oh, Inked Babe Campaign.

Andrew Hellmich: Inked Babe. Okay, so people with tattoos?

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, good, sorry,

Mary Beth Wood: No problem. So taking that form that I had last year and then sending the form to go to Dubsado, and that's it, Dubsado then is going to pick up anybody that comes through, and they're going to send the same emails that have gone out for the Inked Babe Campaign I did this year, and the whole cycle will start again.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, because it's already set up. This is just part of your CRM now they just go into that funnel?

Mary Beth Wood: Right and it doesn't even have to be the Inked Babe Campaign. It can be any campaign, because whether it's Inked Babe or, you know, we do something for couples. We also do Real Women Campaign, they all are going to get the same response. Need the same information, you know. So even if I start a brand new campaign from scratch, I have all the pieces already.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Okay? So you would then go into Dubsado and just update the copy, like duplicate that sequence and just update the copy to reflect the campaign.

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah, I imagine that would take 30 minutes.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes

Mary Beth Wood: Then my campaign can run for as long as it needs to.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, great. So let's talk about this Inked Babe Campaign, or one of these Inked Babe campaigns. When you say that, what first comes to mind is it a Facebook ad? Is it just a post? Is it a reel? Is it an Instagram post?

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah, it's a Facebook ad, paid ad.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you run an ad, and what is it like? I'm looking for inked babes?

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah. So the first line of the ad is, usually, 'Do you have a tattoo?' And then I've captured anyone who has the smallest tattoo on their wrist to being covered, and it says we are looking for 10 inked babes to be part of our Inked Babe Campaign for 2023 and then there's so much more information they can get on the website, but I find keeping it quick and simple in that Facebook ad basically all they have to do, once they kind of have their interest piqued, is click on the link and they'll fill out their information and then tell us why they'd like to be a part of it. And then I get to, what I do, which I actually really love and wouldn't want Dubsado to take over, is go through all those entries and determine who I feel like is qualified to reach out, then to have a possible shoot or be part of the campaign. So that, in itself, gives me that control, because it's not just responding to everyone who inquires, because not everyone would be a great fit, but it's as simple as just clicking a button if they're not a good fit, or clicking a different button if they are a good fit, and then Dubsado will take them down the road they need to go from there.

Andrew Hellmich: Go, I like that. I love it. Okay, so when you run that ad, you said, you know, you might show a photo of someone with a tiny tattoo in their wrists, as you know, compared to someone that's totally covered from head to toe. Do you then use those variety of images in a video format in your ad? Or is it just a whole lot of series of photos, or is this all different ads?

Mary Beth Wood: I usually do about three or four ads, and then after a week or two, see which is performing the best, and then just keep that one going. And it's only photos that haven't gotten into the reels or anything like that. Facebook does allow the campaign to run on Instagram simultaneously without having to do anything, which is great. So it's just photos on the ad, and then photos on the website, and then you can get in and explore even further. But marketing wise, it's just still photography.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're optimizing for traffic, for link clicks, you send people to a landing page. Is that landing page on your website, or in Dubsado?

Mary Beth Wood: It is on my website.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so they answer some questions, give you some details, some background. They're the entries that you read and you decipher, which is going to be a better fit or not.

Mary Beth Wood: Right

Andrew Hellmich: Okay and then is there a certain question that you're looking to see? The answer for that says, "Yeah, you're a great fit or no, you're not a good fit."

Mary Beth Wood: 100%. The only thing I look for is their answer to tell us in 25 words or less why you'd like to be part of this campaign, which comes from Steve Saporito’s teaching, it gets to the point, it doesn't let them go on and on and on. And it makes it very clear if somebody wants to enter, because, you know, you'll see in my marketing, I never use the word 'free'. I never use the word 'model', 'model call' anything like that. So if I see someone who's kind of made their own assumptions and said, "Well, I've always wanted to do a free boudoir session"

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Mary Beth Wood: "Okay, you're a no. You're gonna be so disappointed when I tell you this isn't free, and I don't wanna waste your time." But then you also get in those 25 words or less. "I've been looking for a way to feel empowered. I've never taken this leap, but here I am filling out this form", and you think to yourself, "Wow, what a great person, what a great entry. I really want to reach out and hear more about their story."

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so in the ad copy, have you said something like, you know, "These sessions are complimentary?"

Mary Beth Wood: Nope. So it has a price on it. It will say session fee, 399 instead of 790 or instead of 690 so they're aware that there's a discount on the session fee, but it's up to me, when I'm on the phone call with them, after they've been qualified, to explain that that's the session fee that doesn't include the prints. It doesn't include digitals.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, and then, do you have any issue with Facebook pulling your ads or flagging your ads because they're boudoir photos?

Mary Beth Wood: Yeah, that's a great question. I think I've gotten it down to a science of what works and what doesn't at this point, because I've had so many people, but I don't really have that happen much anymore. It's almost like going back to that idea of what is Wall Art appropriate can also be Facebook ad appropriate. So if I'm showing something with a lot of skin and, you know, not a lot of material for their outfit, then that is something that will get flagged. But there's often a lot of times, you know, boudoir can be in leather pants and a tank top, and you look amazing and empowered, and that can be boudoir in my eyes. So I'm very particular about which I even put out there. Because, of course, the less attention from Facebook ads team, the better.

Andrew Hellmich: I agree. I agree. I guess if you're on the fence about an image, you won't put it up in the ad. You're not going to say, let's see if I can sneak this one through.

Mary Beth Wood: No, because there's only so many times that they'll allow those things to happen before they just say, "Okay, we've had enough. We've warned you, and that's we're going to shut this down", and I don't want to fight them.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, no, that's for sure. Okay, so it's interesting that your favorite question is that, you know, 'In 25 words or less, tell me why you want to have this experience'. You're not looking for answers to things like, "Are you looking to buy wall art after this session? Or how much? What is your budget?" You're not asking those questions, or you're just ignoring them?

 
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Andrew Hellmich: MB, I'll add links to where everyone can find you and see more of your work, because it truly is fantastic. I had the best time talking to you. I love the business that you've created. I want to finish with one last question. It looks like you've gone, you know, I won't say out of your way, but you've worked hard to be inclusive with your language on your website. Was that strategic? Or did you feel like you're just moving with the times? Or, you know, why do that?

Mary Beth Wood: It was very strategic. I felt like a lot of times we identify our clients with ourselves, and for me, a lot of my life, I felt like an outsider, and I realized that there's a whole slew of people that deserve to be seen that aren't being honored in so many of these photography genres, even weddings, you're still seeing a 25 year old in a size zero gown. In, you know, in these pictures that people are trying to Pinterest and imagining themselves, especially when it comes to boudoir, again, you're seeing one body type and in one way. And I thought, "Well, what about the rest of us? You know, we also deserve to be seen." And that's when I started saying, "Where are those people?" They're everywhere. There are more places than that size one 25 year old, I can tell you that, and they're ready to be seen, and they're so excited that somebody gives a shit enough about them, you know that they're asking for them specifically. And I get that feedback a lot. You know, I entered your campaign because I've never seen anybody look for tattoos, and often I didn't even want to do boudoir because I thought I'd be frowned upon because I had tattoos. Absolutely not, my Facebook VIP group is the epitome. We call it, 'The Misfits of Boudoir'. It's over a thousand people who just get to be themselves and tell us about, you know, being in a relationship with a man and a woman, or, you know, having difficulty with interpersonal relationships because of ADD or what it might be, it's a safe space for them, and so is my studio, and to give them a chance to be seen, heard and loved is my goal at the end of the day.

Andrew Hellmich: Look, you are lucky that Liam is coming home, because I would hold you here for another hour. I keep hitting you with questions. I wanted to ask you about ADD and so many things you've said, but look, you've been amazing. Thank you so much for your time. I can't wait to share this with listeners and massive congrats on your success and good luck with the upcoming birth.

Mary Beth Wood: Thank you so much. I appreciate you for your time and your enthusiasm to want to learn about this stuff. It makes me feel seen. So I love that. Thank you.