480: Leah Hoffman – Clients, sales and incredible images for a successful fine art dance photography business

480: Leah Hoffman – Clients, sales and incredible images for a successful fine art dance photography business

 

Andrew Hellmich: If you're anything like me, when you see the work from today's guests, your first thought will be, "Oh, my God, this is amazing work." Now, when Leah was recommended to me as a potential guest, I heard she was a dance photographer, and my initial thought was production line dance school photography, where she photographs everyone at a dance school, including individual and group photos, which I know can be super lucrative. However, this photography is next level. It's easy to see why she's been labeled as one of Australia's leading dance photographers. Now, her images can only be described as creative fine art. Every dancer is artistically lit. They're beautifully retouched, and they're caught in flight action or wrapped and surrounded by flying clouds of fabric, like it really is incredible stuff. She has had a lifelong love of dance, which has included dancing instruction and choreography. So it made sense for this photographer, Leah, to combine her passion for dances and photography at her specialist dance photography studio in Melbourne, Australia, which opened in 2014. I'm talking about the incredibly talented Leah Hoffman, and I'm rapt to have her with me now, Leah, welcome.

Leah Hoffman: Thank you for having me. Oh, wow. What an introduction. Think I need you floating around me all the time. When people ask me what I do for a living, I'll be like, "Hey, I'd do the Andrew spiel." that was fantastic.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, I meant every word. And do you seriously, do you look at your website or your portfolio and think like, "Wow, I created these."

Leah Hoffman: I do. And yes, I do. And it's amazing that I do look at my work and I guess fall in love with what I do and just thinking that it's an honor to create such beautiful artwork for dancers. When I introduce myself to other photographers, or people just say on the street, and they ask me what I do for a living, and I say, "I'm a dance photographer", I always have to, I guess I have to let them know that I'm not that typical dance photographer. It's a fine art photography that I do and I produce artwork for dancers. So my slogan, which I actually did copyright it, is, "It's not just a photograph, it's a masterpiece."

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So what do you mean by you copyrighted that? Do you have to go to like the service New South Wales or something like that? So it's not your own Victoria. So is it a national body that you have to go and copyright a phrase?

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, it's a copyright a phrase, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So I'm just curious, when you copyright a phrase, does that mean no other, no one else can use that in your state or the whole of the country, because it's not trademarked, is it?

Leah Hoffman: In Australia?

Andrew Hellmich: In Australia.

Leah Hoffman: Yes. In Australia, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: I love that. I didn't even know that was an option to copyright a phrase.

Leah Hoffman: Yes, so yeah, it's been copyrighted.

Andrew Hellmich: So because you've copyrighted it, do you try and like you use that slogan or that phrase everywhere?

Leah Hoffman: Yes, yeah, on all advertising. So on my website, I pop it on social media as much as I can. I think educating clients to know that I create artwork and not just a photograph, so it's all to hang up on their wall at home and love forever.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so this isn't just something like a little eight by 10 that's going to sit on the mantelpiece for or stick to the fridge for, you know, six months. This is something right as a proper investment. So like looking at your work, I expect that any dancer that comes to you, now they see themselves in the images that you're creating on your website, on your social media profiles. Do you feel like an incredible pressure to deliver for every client? Or does it just like they come in and it just happens?

Leah Hoffman: It just happens.

Andrew Hellmich: Really?

Leah Hoffman: It really does. And it's amazing for them to sit down, because I do all my viewings on the same day. So they sit down, they actually see their work unedited, so basically straight from my camera and just their, like the mothers, they cry over their daughters or sons, because I photograph both, and the dancer is just like, "Wow, that's me. I can't believe, like, I've seen all your photographs, and now I'm seeing me. It's such a strange feeling." So yeah, sometimes there are pressure, but there always is. It's because I care about my job. But once I get into the groove of things, it's, yeah, and I used to apologize about being fussy about my lighting, because I'm very fussy. Sometimes it takes me a little bit just to get that, that perfect lit. And I used to apologize, I'm like, I used to say, "I'm so sorry. I'm just getting, I'm just a bit fussy about lighting." I don't apologize anymore, because that's what they're there to get, is to get that perfect photograph.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, like, to me, that's your, I mean, you feel like you're holding them up, but that's your expertise.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, exactly. So it's all about that self-worth.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, for sure. And I mean, I want to tiptoe around what I want to ask you here, because I don't want to say the wrong thing. But like, when I see on your website, every dancer, male or female, is gorgeous, like they are stunningly fit. They're super flexible. They look like models. Every single one of them. What happens when someone comes in your studio that doesn't have the skills that you need for them to get into the positions you want, or don't look the way your other models do?

Leah Hoffman: Funny, you say that, and I think this is sort of a topic that a lot of my clients feel, believe it or not, not everybody is, I guess, that typical fit model. I photograph everyday dancers, and probably about more 50% of the time I have those, I guess, the younger dancers, or the not so skilled dancers, or even the larger dancers as well, and it's just the way of posing, using the particular movements that suit them. So I photograph dancers to suit their ability.

Andrew Hellmich: If they can't get into the position, they don't look the way they think they do compared to the other dancers on your website, what would you do with them?

Leah Hoffman: So I have certain moves that I know work with everybody. They're simple moves. It might tweak an arm or a back movement or just a little bit of a hip twist, just to get that wow factor. So I guess when photographing portraits, the rules are break every body parts, elbows, and that's the same with dance as well. So turning the body and then sort of bending the back, back a little bit, creating a curve, creating interest. So that's all you need to sort of do with those dancers that can't lift their leg, behind their ear or anything like that. And I guess also, because I've coached for so many years prior being a photographer, I can coach the dancers using the correct body parts, I guess, so squeezing your glutes in, turning your hips out, just to get that correct, because they're also looking at their technique as well. So not only I've got to sell my work, I've got to sell the work with correct technique, even if the dancer has those skills or not. So there is pressure.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. I mean, I'm not a dance photographer, and I'm not a horse photographer, but I have photographed horses for owners in the past, and they were seeing things. I'm thinking, are you crazy? Like, what are you talking about? They wanted to see the horse in a particular way, with its ears forward and its legs extended. And I'm thinking, this is a great photo, but they weren't happy. So I'm sure it's the same with the dancers.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, correct, absolutely. So just knowing those basic terminology or basic positions, I guess, sort of technique, that's what I mean. Yeah, positions that definitely does help, because that's what they're looking at, especially the dancers. Sometimes the mums come in and they or dads, because I do get dance dads in. They come in and they like, "Oh, it's a beautiful photo." And the dancer might be like, "Oh, my toenails out just a fraction." Like you get those dancers that are so particular that you know, one of their toes is twisted, so it can get really, really particular. So when I'm shooting, every shot I look at the back of the camera and zoom in and make sure that every part is correct. I sometimes show them, which I do. I do show them throughout their photo shoot, but yeah, sometimes showing the back of the camera to a dancer can also be a negative thing, because they might be like, "My little toe is out. Oh, this or this out." And it's funny, because I do use Photoshop, it's a secret. So if a relevé is not right up, I can tweak that in Photoshop.

Andrew Hellmich: Sorry, if a what's not right up?

Leah Hoffman: A relevé, like a demi point, so them on their tippy toes.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, right, yeah, okay. So I was going to ask you, are you continually saying through a session or through a sales session. "Don't worry, I can fix that in post, or I can fix that in Photoshop." Are you using those words?

Leah Hoffman: Not necessarily. So if there's a particular move they want to get, and you can see that they have the potential to get it, I will get them to focus on, just say, their top half of their body. And say, "Let's work. Focus on getting these arms right, this head angle, right. And then let's concentrate on the feet." And then I will use, like, the feet from that photo, and then place it on the arm, the head and body. So yeah, so there are that, so they are aware of that. And I do that before the viewing. So I've been Photoshop, I've been using Photoshop since I was eight years old. So that's basically what got me into photography. So I'm very, very, very quick at Photoshop.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice, unreal.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Incredible. And again, back to the bigger dances. Are you using things like liquify and, you know, tools like that in Photoshop?

Leah Hoffman: I don't necessarily. So like, I do to some point, I obviously re a flatten of, not flatten, flatter, not changed.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay.

Leah Hoffman: So especially if there's every, I guess every dancer, if they're bending their back backwards, you do get the skin rolls in their breast. So everybody gets that. I get rid of that. I tweak all that. The bigger dancers, I just sort of reshape. I don't necessarily make them a size six.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Leah Hoffman: I just reshape them in a way that they still look like themselves, because again, at the end of the day, that's who they are, and I don't want to change who they are because they're beautiful the way they look, but they're, yeah, it's just those little bits that, especially wearing a leotard, sometimes it isn't flattering.

Andrew Hellmich: This is any more and more and more like wedding photography to me than..

Leah Hoffman: Yeah. Well, it generally is. It's very similar, I guess, the way you pose females or any dancer or yeah, females. Men are obviously different, and the same rules still apply throughout. And yeah, they always just want to look as best as they can. And just a little, little help in Photoshop never hurts anybody.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. I love it. And tell me about the business side of things. Do you feel like you have a successful business, or do you feel like you're, you know, you're living your dream and just have a job and you get to do what you love to do?

Leah Hoffman: A bit of both. Really. Obviously, I am so lucky to be able to make a living for something that I love to do, so that's working with dancers and being a photographer. And as a kid, I always wanted to have my own business. So I am fulfilling a dream, and when I put all my sales in, it's like, "Wow", it's amazing just to see the turnover and how much the business does make. So, yeah, I'm very proud at where I've come, I guess.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. So what is the revenue, Leah? Have you got an idea?

Leah Hoffman: Yes, so my average sale is about three and a half.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Fantastic.

Leah Hoffman: Two, four, yeah. So that's generally what people spend with me. So the structure of my business is probably a little bit different to I guess, what other people might have. So I've structured my business around my lifestyle with my two kids. So I have 50-50 custody, and when the kids are with their dad. So it's a week on, week off. That's when I draw my photo shoots. So Monday to Thursday, when the kids are at their dad's, that's where I do all my shoots. So I have two shoots a day, so eight shoots a fortnight. And then when I have the children, when they're at school, that's when I do all the inhouse stuff, so the retouching, the dealing with the clients, all my calls, communicating with third parties, all that sort of thing. And I also do all that, I guess, on both weeks as well. So I am a 5 AM starter. I get up at 5 AM every morning, and that definitely helps and grounds me. So for the first hour, that's when I do all my meditation, my gratitude, and get focused for the day. And then from six to seven or six to eight, depending on if I have the kids, I actually sit down at my desk and do some work then and then start the day.

Andrew Hellmich: So it sounds like you work with Joel Dunn, the photography business and mindset coach.

Leah Hoffman: Yes, I do. He's definitely been amazing and has helped me with structuring the business, structuring my time, and also boosting my sales as well. So he's absolutely incredible.

Andrew Hellmich: That is so good. So if you're averaging three and a half thousand dollars per client, and you're doing was eight shoots, roughly a fortnight. So are you doing around like 200 sessions a year?

Leah Hoffman: Correct, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: So that adds up to over $700,000.

Leah Hoffman: It can, yes, but COVID happened.

Andrew Hellmich: But either way, that's, what a business, that's amazing.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So this is the first year without a lockdown, so yes, I'm actually seeing the true benefits of the business.

Andrew Hellmich: Congratulations. What an amazing business. And you get to do what you love at the same time.

Leah Hoffman: I do what I love, yes, and I have my weekends free as well, so..

Andrew Hellmich: Amazing

Leah Hoffman: I'm loving life.

Andrew Hellmich: Amazing, amazing. So tell me then, Leah, like when you sort of opened the studio in 2014 I'm guessing the average sale back then wasn't three and a half thousand, and you probably struggled to bring clients in.

Leah Hoffman: No, not necessarily struggling to bring clients in. So, so my average sale was about 1800 at that time. I was working with another photographer at the time, so it wasn't generally my business. I created that business for somebody else, and I guess it was sort of being true to myself. I've always wanted to work for myself and be my own boss. So I did take up. It was a lot of courage to leave, and I left and started my own business. And that's when I well, I knew Joel Dunn previously, and I knew that he had the whole coaching side of thing his business, and that's when we met up, and he helped me build up my business to where it is today.

Andrew Hellmich: So have you been working with Joel since, you know, the last few years?

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, the last two years I've been working with Joel.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, two years only. Okay, so how long have you been actually shooting on your own?

Leah Hoffman: Three years.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, okay, so not even that long.

Leah Hoffman: So not that long. I started my business in October 2019, and few months later, COVID.

Andrew Hellmich: COVID, right.

Leah Hoffman: So, perfect timing to start a business. But it was amazing to know that we went through a pandemic, and obviously still going through a pandemic, and I'm still producing massive sales, and my business is stronger than ever.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. Leah, that's amazing. To you basically had the proof of concept that this would work when you started working with the other photographer, then you went out on your own. So, I mean, you sort of knew that this had potential as soon as you start, it wasn't just a guess.

Leah Hoffman: Yes, no, I knew it had potential. When I was shooting with the other photographer, I had a different style as such, so the finished product just looked like a studio finish. So it looked like it was photographed in a studio, whereas I always had in my mind for my business, having that extra tweak, that that fine art finish, so it looks different, so it has more of the texture and more of a moodier finish about my work now.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. But the dancers, like you're still photographing in your studio, the dancers have to come to you. You're not going to them?

Leah Hoffman: No, they come to me, so I have my own studio space, and, yeah, they come to me, and I offer professional hair and makeup, and with that, the makeup artist helps and assists on the photo shoot as well. So they pamper the dancer.

Andrew Hellmich: They stay back.

Leah Hoffman: Yep, yep. So they stay and they pamper the dancer throughout the session.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. And so with the dancers, I mean, again, I've photographed a couple, nothing like you do, but I imagine they turn up and they need to warm up and do that sort of thing. So are your sessions sort of 2-3-4 hours?

Leah Hoffman: Yes, they're very long. So they can go up to four hours.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. They are that long, okay.

Leah Hoffman: Yes. Or if there's multiple dancers, sometimes I photograph sisters or friends, for that matter, they do go a bit longer. So with those particular sessions, I always suggest them to do the afternoon session. So if it does run over, there's no one else waiting, or I'm not feeling that pressure to be, I've got another person coming in, so I'm a bit more relaxed, and I don't have the children because they're with their dad, and I don't have the pressure of being home.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, yeah, that makes total sense. Okay, and so in one of these four hour sessions, how many saleable images are you looking to get? Because it looks to me like when I look at your portfolio, the dance is looking for one hero image that's going to go on the wall, you know, and take up a massive space in their home. So are you looking to get more than one hero image?

Leah Hoffman: Absolutely, absolutely. So I guess every client wants something a little bit different. So each client's different. So I photograph basically the same amount for every dancer, so I do a fine art portrait. So that's more of the pose sitting down, not necessarily dancing, if they're a ballerina, so they're on point. I'll get a look with dancing on their point shoes. And then there's also the fabric shots, which you've mentioned in my intro. They're the hero shot, and I usually sell wall art for that, because they take a while to retouch so and then more of their I guess, flexibility, jumps, elevation, more creative movements, because not all moves work well with the fabric. So in saying that, I show about 30 to 40 images in their slideshow, in their viewing, and then we narrow it down. So as much as I love my work, I've got to be detached with it. I don't try to "Be sure you don't want this?" It's like "Which one?". So I will show them just say, the same pose, but there might be a smiley shot. They might be looking away, different facial expressions, so I sort of bring them up and say, "Which one do you prefer?" And then just narrowing it down. So usually, clients will buy a wall art piece, so whether it's a hero shot for the wall or a collage. So I merge all the fabrics together, so they might pick their five favorite fabric shots, and it's all blended together, and then I will sell a folio box or an album.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So with a big merge photo with the fabrics, I've seen an example that I think on your TikTok reels, if that's the right term, is that something they would get as a large pano for the wall, a large panorama?

Leah Hoffman: Yes, absolutely, yeah. So that's a canvas on the wall. So I sell everything standard as canvas, and then if they want something as a frame or an acrylic, I will upsell that so they will pay extra for that.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so someone's spending, say, three and a half thousand dollars, what are they generally walking away with? Is it a large piece of wall and a folio box?

Leah Hoffman: Correct, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, that's, that's the main thing. Okay.

Leah Hoffman: That's their main thing, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So when do your clients first get any idea that they might spend three and a half thousand dollars or more.

Leah Hoffman: When they look at my images, they know that they are going to spend.

Andrew Hellmich: But when they call you to say, you know, "Hey, Leah, you've been recommended to me, or I've seen your work for the last two years, I want to have a session." Do you tell them about pricing then?

Leah Hoffman: Absolutely, yeah. So depending on, so, I have a voucher system as well as word of mouth and through third parties, so such as dance schools or dance competitions or even dance stores, so dance where, that sort of thing. So my third parties, I actually have a DL card that has prices starting from, so wall art starting from 850, wall collection starting from 1550, folio boxes starting from 1850, and albums starting from 3,850.

Andrew Hellmich: 3,850

Leah Hoffman: 3,850, yeah, I use numbers like that because I'm a photographer. I'm very visual. Numbers aren't my thing, so I have to actually say 3850

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Leah Hoffman: When I'm doing my sales. I can't actually say 3000, I've actually said 30,000 once to a client before, and they're like, "What?" "Oh, wait, hang on." So I just stick with the numbers that way.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Got it.

Leah Hoffman: For my brain. It just works.

Andrew Hellmich: So one of my kids was a dancer. When would I as a parent first see that DL flyer?

Leah Hoffman: When you receive your voucher, if you received a voucher. Now, I have the same structure on my website as well. So where the prices start from.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it, okay. And then, so when you say the voucher, is this your third party marketing partners that are handing these vouchers out?

Leah Hoffman: Correct. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Does your dance schools, your dance attire..

Leah Hoffman: Competitions or ..

Andrew Hellmich: Competitions, right. Do they get anything out of this as well?

Leah Hoffman: Depending on, so it might be a sponsorship with a dance camp. So depending on how much I donate, is how much I will pay extra to, as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, saying, I said, let's say I'm a local dance studio. I'm going to be hosting a dance competition. So would it only be my studio dancers that come to that competition, or am I running a competition for the whole area?

Leah Hoffman: Usually for the whole area.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so I'm running the competition, you would approach me and say what you want to give out your flyers?

Leah Hoffman: Vouchers. Yep.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, vouchers. But you also want to sponsor the events, or you're going to give me something for me to give out your flyers?

Leah Hoffman: Yeah. So it's, so, if a just say, a dance school. Usually they actually approach me, which is fantastic.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, wow.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, which I do approach dance schools. But the dance competitions approach me, so they're more wanting something to gift a prize winner.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so they're going to gift a session.

Leah Hoffman: Yes, yeah. So I do that, and then I might sort of also say, "Look, do you want to run a constant competition throughout the event?" And that's where I might sort of do a giveaway and give away a wall art, have QR codes around so it's nice and easy. Dancers just QR code that ,enter their details, and then they're in the running for a big, major prize. And then, obviously, we draw the winner, and then there's runs up prizes. So then they also get a voucher as well,

Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay. And so, and the vouchers for the, is it the same value no matter who you're partnering with?

Leah Hoffman: Yes, generally, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And with, like $200?

Leah Hoffman: So it's a $500 gift voucher. So 250 of that is for the session. And then they also get $250 credit.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. Okay. And then they put that towards wall art or folio boxes or albums.

Leah Hoffman: Wall art, correct.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. I love it. I love it. So, and then, do they allow you, or do you ask them to display your work at the competition?

Leah Hoffman: Yep. So I have my logo displayed on there. They normally present a sponsors sort of slideshow before the event, and my logo is up. Some of my artwork, I have banners around the venue as well. And occasionally I do pop in, but usually it doesn't work in my, in my lifestyle, which is a bit sad, because I always like to pop in to these events. So, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So are you, I mean, I get, I don't know, the Melbourne dance scene, but are you, like, I don't want to say celebrity, but are you well known down there? Like, does everyone want photos by Leah Hoffman?

Leah Hoffman: Oh

Andrew Hellmich: You can be honest.

Leah Hoffman: I think no.

Andrew Hellmich: You can be honest.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah. A little.

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome. I can see you're blushing. That's so good. That's amazing. What a position to be in. So the girls and the boys, the dancers, they are aspiring to be photographed by you. They want to be in your photos.

Leah Hoffman: Yes, yeah. They do, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, what a position to be in, that is fantastic. So what happens when you approach a, what is a dance shop called where they sell, the I want to say tutus, but I don't know, leotards and things as a dance shop?

Leah Hoffman: Yes, dance shop, let's just call them a dance shop.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so if you have an idea, say there's a new dance shop opening in Melbourne, I'm guessing, would you go and approach them to help hand out your vouchers.

Leah Hoffman: So I've done lots of different things over the years with different third parties, and I find that most of them always work and it's for them. So for that particular, I guess business. So I've done, I produced artwork for particular shop. So for their shop front, also dance studios as well. There is a big, massive fabric shot at a in Eltham of a dance studio. And I've had friends of mine drive past and actually go, "Hey, I know that work. That is my friend's". So in terms of that, so some dance wear shops, they sell point shoes for ballerinas. So I have in a few of the shops of a like celebrating the first point shoes for dancers, because that is a milestone for a particular for ballerinas. And it's a particular like special occasion. So I gift dancers who have just received their first point shoes a photo shoot. So they advertise it in their shop.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And then they would give out a voucher then as well.

Leah Hoffman: So they enter their details, so they, into a QR code, thank goodness for COVID, sometimes there's some things that have come out of that. So they have the QR code, and they scan it in, enter their details. I get all the information, and then I send out a voucher for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, just to be clear, because this sounds so good, so you would have a poster in the store.

Leah Hoffman: Correct

Andrew Hellmich: About the competition with a QR code. And so do the customers just see that and think, "Oh, wow, I'll enter that." Or are you encouraging the shop staff or owner to point people to it?

Leah Hoffman: Yes, Yep, absolutely. And I have that constantly running, I should be posting it a little bit more on my social media. I think we always look at our social media and say, I can do more so and that just, I'm going to put that on my to do list for today.

Andrew Hellmich: So I love that they're doing it. I understand how it makes total sense, how it's fantastic for you. But what's in it for the store, the store owner?

Leah Hoffman: Nothing, just that they can feel like it's from them, really.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay. Oh, so it's a gift from them, for this..

Leah Hoffman: From them, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: But so hang on. So by entering the details, they scan the QR code, they enter their details, they automatically get a voucher from that store, specific to that store, from you.

Leah Hoffman: Yes, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, okay, so there's two dance shops in Melbourne, two separate ones. They will have their own QR codes, and they'll be branded to that store.

Leah Hoffman: Similar, yes. So the QR code goes to a Linktree. Yes, is that what it is?

Andrew Hellmich: Linktree, a web page, yeah.

Leah Hoffman: A web, yeah. So that's my platform for everything. So sending them to that particular site, they can have access to all my social media, my website, uh, competitions that I'll be running, my, like, book a session. Everything is on that Linktree, so the QR code goes straight to there, and then I'll have in that list 'my first point shoes.'

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, I'm there now. Okay, I've got it. Okay, so, really, so the store, if the store points me and my child to that QR code, they really just got the, they get the feel good factor for recommending you.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, and sort of, you know, this is a gift from us. So when I send out the voucher, I would say, you know, "Andrew's dance school has gifted you this $500 gift voucher as a celebration to help you with."

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So how do you know it came from Andrew's dance school and not from Steven's dance school?

Leah Hoffman: Steven. Well, that's Steven.

Andrew Hellmich: That's my brother.

 
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Andrew Hellmich: Yep. I've got one more question I'll ask you, but first up, just before we get to that, if you have time, where is the best place for listeners to see more of your incredible work that we've talked about?

Leah Hoffman: Instagram's probably my main source of I guess, to see my images, I'm still trying to build up this whole TikTok thing.

Andrew Hellmich: That was gonna be my last question. But so for Instagram, you're at Hoffa Studio. So it's H-O-F-F-A-S-T-U-D-I,-O-S, so I'll link to that in the show notes. Instagram.com/hoffastudios. And honestly, if you are listening to this right now, go and have a look at this portfolio. It will blow you away. You'll see exactly what we've been talking about. Leah, your work. I've said it over and over, it's stunning. You are amazing. You are no wonder your clients are so happy and are lining up to be photographed by you. Do you have a minute to answer one more question?

Leah Hoffman: Oh, absolutely, absolutely yes. Fire away.

Andrew Hellmich: I've got your TikTok, I guess portfolio open in front of me. It looks like you've been investing a little bit of time and effort into it. Is it working for you?

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Sorry, I'm trying to shift to TikTok, because back in the day, Facebook was mainly for mothers, Instagram was for the dancers. Now dancers, and because it's the younger generation, I now move to TikTok. So I've got to keep up with these young kids. So it does take a lot of time, and I think that's where social media takes up a lot of time, but I've got to think of is, "This is my marketing time of need to invest in that." So, yeah. So I am slowly building up my Tiktok page, and I haven't overly seen the benefits yet. I don't know. You know, I used to run, well, I normally run competitions through Facebook and Instagram, like an online competition, but I don't know if that will work on Tiktok. Yeah, I'm still into it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so with your clients. So is it the kids that see and love your work that pester their mum to book you, or is it the mums that see your work that book?

Leah Hoffman: Both

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, so when I'm posting on Facebook, I'm targeting the mums, and then when I'm posting on Instagram slash TikTok, that's where I'm focusing on the dancers.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Okay. So you really need to have a two pronged approach. You got to get to the dancer and the mum.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, absolutely. Because the dancers obviously see their friends that have done it and be like, "I want to be photographed at Hoffa Studios, Mum." So then the mum as well as the dad, I should so to say, has to see the work and fall in love with it as well. So, yeah, I've got to target both of them.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Okay. And then you haven't heard yet from dancers saying they've seen your work on Tiktok, or have you?

Leah Hoffman: I've seen a few dancers have come in and seen a few of the clips that I've done, so they have mentioned "I've seen this particular one that you've done that was really funny", is the powder shoot that I did, and it's the whole no one's gonna know, because it's yeah, and they've talked about that in photo shoots. So I guess that way I am connecting with the dancers. But it just takes time to scroll through knowing what's in fashion at that time as well. Yeah, it's very difficult, because you've got to do your reels, or your stories, or whatever it's called, your post in using the filter like the voiceover filters and..

Andrew Hellmich: The TikTok filters.

Leah Hoffman: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And it's like, are you repurposing those same videos or those reels that you create for TikTok on Instagram and Facebook?

Leah Hoffman: Yeah, I've been experimenting. So I have been sharing them on so just sort of reminding dancers that I'm also on TikTok.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so it sounds like you see that's the place where you've got to be.

Leah Hoffman: Yes, I've got to be at TikTok, Facebook, YouTube, even though YouTube's not really a big part of my business, but I've also want to go into this. So social media is basically a full time job.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes

Leah Hoffman: When it comes down to it.

Andrew Hellmich: It is, yeah, it can be, it can get crazy.

Leah Hoffman: It can be.

Andrew Hellmich: Love it. Leah, thank you so much for your time. You have been incredible. I know you were nervous about recording this, but you have been an amazing guest. And like I said, your work is just mind blowing. So thank you so much for spending this hour with me and sharing what you have with listeners. It's been so much fun.

Leah Hoffman: Thank you so much for having me. It was definitely a pleasure, and I feel very honored to be, I guess, interviewed, and be on your podcast. Yey!