294: Rachel Bourke – How to make consistently higher sales to every photography client

294: Rachel Bourke – How to make consistently higher sales to every photography client

 

Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest is the founder and head trainer of Sales Space. The company's mission is to bring the latest scientific research on decision making and human interaction to business owners. Rachel has worked with a range of clients, from large corporates to small businesses, with spectacular results, including 100% growth year after year for some of her entrepreneurial clients. The idea for Rachel and her team is to transform old school, stress inducing sales techniques into a sales conversation that is enjoyable, enlightening and compelling for both the seller and the client. Now on her website, Rachel says they leverage neuroscience to guarantee optimal results. I've got no idea what that actually means, but I'm keen to find out. Rachel, welcome.

Rachel Bourke: Hello, Andrew. How are you?

Andrew Hellmich: Good. What does that mean? Leverage neuroscience to guarantee optimal results?

Rachel Bourke: Well, it should mean a lot to all of us, business owners. And once you know a little bit about neuroscience and how it actually affects us in our sales conversations, it will mean so much more to you than it currently does. So what we mean about that is that at Sales Space, we are not neuroscientists, but we have done an enormous amount of research into why one person chooses to buy from someone over another, and it's incredibly important for us as business owners to understand the effect that we are having on the brain of the person that we're speaking with. So that's what neuroscience has brought to us. It's understanding what happens in our brains. As I said, so when you speak to somebody, when you behave in a certain way, you cause a certain response in them, and when you understand how to control that response, then that has an incredible difference in your ability to actually sell what you do and influence others.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so the way you're talking about sales, I came into this interview thinking you're going to show me and teach us how to actually sell more products to our clients, but you're talking more about actually booking the client in the first place.

Rachel Bourke: Yeah, absolutely. There's so much to getting sales right. And you know, it starts with our ability to influence, so as photographers, it's all about actually people choosing you first. It is a phenomenally competitive industry, and so you have to be the person that they choose. So even if your photography is absolutely beautiful, there's a lot of other photographers who also have beautiful shots as well. So it's very hard for the buyer to work out who they should go with. So it actually boils down to so often, the actual photographer themselves. So why should they choose you as a person over somebody else? So some clients may be price driven, purely price driven, but we need to be able to help our clients overcome that price barrier and that price objection, and to choose us, not because we charge way less than our competitors, but because we are so, when we speak, it is like music to their ears, and basically we're impossible to say no to.

Andrew Hellmich: That sounds so good. All right, everyone is hooked already. I know I am, I am. So does this happen on the website, or does this have to be face to face?

Rachel Bourke: This is everywhere. Everything we do must sell. So what that means is, if the message we have in our conversations is different to the message on our website or in any of our other collaterals, on our Instagram, on our Facebook, whatever you're using from a social media point of view, if your messaging is not congruent across the board, then you lose people because a confused mind says no. So just bringing some science back into it, when you confuse your prospects or your clients and your messaging is slightly different, they "Oh, gosh, okay, that's slightly different to what I saw or read the other day." Then they will push away. They will push into what we call the no zone, where you've confused them slightly, and they'll start going, pushing away from you. We want to actually create what we call the yes zone, where everything we do, from our websites to our social media through to our conversations, and everything they hear and say about us is in the same vein. It's talking the same language, and that's when they move into us, and we fire off that opportunity response in their brain, and they go, "Wow, I am loving this guy. I'm loving this woman. I need to speak to her."

Andrew Hellmich: So does that happen then, through the language that I use? Does that happen through particular words, like, how do I do that?

Rachel Bourke: How do you do that? Well, it is so much, gosh, from a wording perspective, you can be going quite well and speaking quite well with someone and just say one word that rubs them the wrong way, or one word slightly incorrectly, and they will push away. It is an instinctual situation. It's not like consciously they're wanting to engage with you, but unconsciously, they push away because you fire off a threat response in their brain. So you said, you know, is it language? Yes, it is. How do we do that? Is a different question again. So first of all, understanding the different chemical reactions that we have when we're speaking with people and how we can control them. That's a really cool thing to know, and it's a really cool place to start, because when you know that, you have far more opportunity to start noticing reactions that people are having with you straight away. You will notice a reaction that they have with you when you say certain things and when you don't say certain things. So that's a good way to start monitoring your level of influence with other people. Then it comes down to actually learning what to do. So it's so nice when you actually understand what to do, but then someone shows you, okay, this is actually how you do it. This is how you start constructing your types of conversations. So they're incredibly influential. By that, I mean that people move in towards you. It's like, it's magnetic type of language, and it's just a way of actually learning that. And that's, I suppose that's actually what we do at Sales Space. We teach our clients how to do that. We give them the background of why this is so important and the science to why this works, and then we actually show them in a systematic format, how to start creating that for themselves in their own business.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, I'm guessing that me, and a lot of photographers, possibly the listener, does this without even knowing it. Some of this without even knowing it.

Rachel Bourke: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: And listening to the way you describe how to interact with a potential client. I know that if I tend to mimic a little bit of the way they stand the way they talk, if I use some of their slang, if I go in smiling and open and ask questions, are they the sort of things you're talking about?

Rachel Bourke: Oh, absolutely. So some people are far better at this than others. Andy, you've got a great smile, very friendly and very approachable type of person. Not everybody's like that, but it's fantastic if you are. So for anybody listening, if you've got a natural, beautiful, big smile, and you are friendly and approachable, then you are definitely a long way down the track of being positively influential. So people feel really good in our presence when you're that type of person. The minute we get a more stern type of face, and even if we're thinking and we start getting serious and we're not normally like that, that will push people away. We have to be quite aware of this sort of thing. But what you were talking about before is rapport, and skills of rapport. So mimicking them in, you know, not obviously copying them, so that it's obvious, but when you're in rapport with somebody, you do start sitting like them. You do start using the same sort of words that they're using, even the way they speak, in their sort of rhythm of their voice. Those sort of things happen naturally for some people, but not so naturally for others. But when it is natural, fantastic. But what you need to be aware of is it's easy to be like and be in rapport with people who are like you, but just imagine that there are so many different personality styles. So even if you were lucky enough that 50% of the population, or 50% of your client potential prospects were like you, there's a whole another 50% that are nothing like you. So that's much harder, because they may be the most outstanding, incredible clients once you actually engage them, but it's not natural for you to be in rapport with them. So when teach people, get taught how to be in rapport with people who are totally unlike them. You can imagine the results.

Andrew Hellmich: So I love what you're saying here, but I am totally confused now, because we're taught so often, certainly, and I've heard on the podcast, on numerous interviews, particularly when we cover branding, is we should be pushing away the people that aren't like us, that we don't want to attract. We should be pulling the people towards us that are like us, and they're our people. And I can see what you're saying now, the people that I'm missing out are possibly good clients.

Rachel Bourke: Absolutely. So it's you, 100% need to be targeted. So that means that when from a targeting point of view, we do so much work on targeting our own business the type of people we want to work with, and we teach that to all of our clients as well. So be absolutely sure on you’re A class client and make sure your messaging targets them, but your A class client doesn't have to be one type of personality. When we look through our client base, we've got an amazing amount of A class clients, but let me tell you, they've got very different personalities and from very different walks of life, but they share similar values to us. So my husband and I run Sales Space, and Cole and I attract clients with very similar values to us. They love the outdoors, they love sport. They love adventure. They love to travel. They've got high family value. They love health and fitness. They adore beautiful photography and things that are beautiful, all those sort of things. Clients like that are attracted to us because that's who we are, but very different personality styles. So someone can come to me and have the similar values to me and absolutely fit our A class client description. But if I didn't know how to engage with them and to understand them because they're slightly, they might be really shy, whereas I'm out and quite outgoing, you know. So you've got to know how to open those sort of people up, especially when they're not like you. When you open them up, oh my gosh, are they attached? They love you for doing that for them and for being who they needed you to be, to bring them out and to help them move forward.

Andrew Hellmich: Do they know you're doing it?

Rachel Bourke: Never

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. How do you do it?

Rachel Bourke: You learn masterful skills of influence. It's a rapport building exercise. So I have learned many, many years ago. I think 20 years ago, I learned the skills of rapport, and I did a lot of training in that area. And I think, you know, way back in my early 20s, I did a lot of NLP training, neuro linguistic programming and neuro semantics, which is the effect that language has on our body and our system. So I've taken that sort of education, and I've obviously had 20 years of experience since then in utilizing that and perfecting it and making it my own, taking what I loved and discarding what I didn't. But rapport was one of the first things I learned. So it is matching and mirroring, but it also is being a phenomenal listener and being incredibly perceptive. So you need to understand what makes someone tick first and be who they need you to be. So you need to be as confident as you can in your own personality and your own self to be who someone else needs you to be. And then you meet them where they're at. So that's called pace and lead. So you pace them, you meet them where they're at, and then you lead them to be a little bit more like you. Instead of you having to be like them all the time, you meet somewhere in the middle. So they lift, and you lift, and you come down slightly, and there it goes, or vice versa.

Andrew Hellmich: So if you get the impression that the prospective client is shy, then you can see they're quietly spoken. So you're not going to go in all gregarious and loud.

Rachel Bourke: No, I tone myself, like I'm quite an energetic. My laugh down, just for this podcast. But I'm a very energetic person. So I can come bouncing into a, you know, into a space or into a room, and just anyone in the room who's shy guy, I go, whoa. So I know I have to tone my energy down when needed, and then it's amazing how people do lift with your energy as the time goes on. It doesn't take very long for people to do that. It's just an awareness. You know, there's so much in this world today, so many of us, have learned so much about mindfulness. Mindfulness is just an awareness of what's happening right now in the present. That's what we need to be doing all the time when we're conversing with potential clients or our current clients.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, so let me give you an example, and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this, because you'll either be upsetting me or Linda.

Rachel Bourke: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: I found myself in a situation where I'll be doing a client interview or a wedding consultation. So the couple are looking at booking. They're going to see a few photographers.

Rachel Bourke: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: And let's say they're not so well spoken. I tend to take on a little bit of their slang, and I can relate to them, and I can talk to them the way that they speak. And Linda comes down after, goes, "Who are you talking to that doesn't sound like you?"

Rachel Bourke: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: You don't say gonna and..

Rachel Bourke: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: So am I doing the right thing by emulating them, or the wrong thing?

Rachel Bourke: You are actually doing the right thing. In all honesty, I find it hard to do that. I've taught myself not to use a lot of slang. You know, you sort of grow up in Australia, and slang is so normal. I've taught myself not to be like that. I do a lot of speaking and a lot of training of people and things, and I just, so now it's harder to be like that for me, Cole finds it really easy. He can just, you know, he can speak however he needs to speak. He can, you know. But I don't find it as easy. So I have to say, I do know what Linda is saying, but you are doing a fantastic job if you find that natural.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so that's okay.

Rachel Bourke: Yeah. So the only time you wouldn't do that, if you feel really weird and unnatural doing it, so it's actually very detrimental to your ability to connect and affect somebody, if you feel unnatural and awkward being like them. So it is training of ourselves.

Andrew Hellmich: No, that makes sense. I think if it wasn't natural, it would look fake. It looked like I was actually making fun of them.

Rachel Bourke: Absolutely. So if I did it, it would almost look like I'm making fun of them, so, but some people talk naturally like that. And I think that if I was absolutely in flow with somebody, then I would probably speak like that. It's just, I would have to do it unconsciously.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, which is the right way though?

Rachel Bourke: Yes, it is.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And I probably gave you a really bad example, because I do say 'gonna', I think I heard you.

Rachel Bourke: I wasn't going to say anything, but now I can.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, speaking of language, I'm going to bring this back to sales specifically in a minute. But with language, let's say I am the kind of photographer and the person that does use words like 'gonna' instead of 'going to'.

Rachel Bourke: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: And I shorten words, should I use that language in my website copy.

Rachel Bourke: No, no, okay, so I would, you know, okay, it depends who your target audience is. Language is a really important part of thinking about the people you're targeting, so completely depending upon your audience and who your A class clients are, then, yes do write your copy. Just look at all the big corporates who are doing it now, who's, who are out there doing, so McDonald's is not called McDonald's anymore. It's called Maccas. And who else is doing there's another big company out there at the moment who are using your gonna, something or other, all over the side of buses. So they are speaking, there's no way, the whole corporate team speaks like that in their McDonald's, for instance, but all of their marketing now is using slang written all over buses driving all around the cities, because they are speaking the language of their target market. So you know, here I am saying, No, I wouldn't do it myself, because that's not our target market. But if it is your target market? Yes, but from a wedding photographer point of view, would it be right to say that wedding photographers are mainly targeting clients who are happy to spend a decent amount of money on their wedding photography?

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Rachel Bourke: Clients like that have a certain expectation. So just make sure you understand your client's expectations and speak accordingly.

Andrew Hellmich: So what about the actual sales process? So let's say we have a client, maybe on the phone or on email. They haven't got to the stage with actually, we're face to face yet. Can I use the stuff that you teach in those relationships or building those relationships then?

Rachel Bourke: Yes, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: How do we do that?

Rachel Bourke: So let's start. What would you like me to start on?

Andrew Hellmich: Well, let's say it's a portrait inquiry. Someone's responded to an ad on Facebook.

Rachel Bourke: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: And I don't know if they're my perfect client yet, but they've seen my photos, they've responded to my ad, and I want to gauge a little bit if they have the money to spend before I commit to doing this shoot.

Rachel Bourke: Yeah, absolutely. So I would advise everybody to have at least, three questions is a really nice amount actually. Have three questions, maximum five that you ask as pre-qualifiers. So they send in an inquiry. Just know this is where it comes back to you. There's always pre work that you need to do this. The more planning and pre-work you do, the greater the preparation, the more the profit. So be prepared. Have your questions prepared. Who do you want to actually serve? So you ask them the questions— "May I ask, are you in?" It might be important where they live. "So whereabouts are you calling from?" Because you might only work in the city, or you might only work in your local area or a certain area around them. "When is the wedding date? How many guests will you have? Then, what are your expectations of your photographer?" And I'm sure everybody asks, "Have you got a budget in mind? Have you got a photographer?" I wouldn't actually ask that straight up, because everybody says, "No". I would actually say, "I'm very keen to see the type of photography you like. Now, I have never spoken to a bride that hasn't done an enormous amount of research, so I'm very keen to see the types of photographs you like and the other photographers who are doing beautiful work from all around the globe, if you've been doing your research. I want to see the type because I have a particular style, and I like to work with people who love, I want to work with people who love my style and get more out of me than I even thought I knew was possible." That's what I think is really interesting.

Andrew Hellmich: So you know, you're almost selling yourself, but also making yourself a little bit like, almost unique. I've got to actually play my cards right to be able to book you.

Rachel Bourke: Totally. And that's the way to go. Okay, so this is the thing..

Andrew Hellmich: You turn it around.

Rachel Bourke: Absolutely. So I don't work with everybody, but instead of saying that, you say what I said before, which softens it up. So there's a certain message we always want to get across. We don't want to be someone who signs anybody up. We don't want to be keen and eager and like a puppy, you know, wagging our tail the minute someone an inquiry comes through. We don't want to be like that.

Andrew Hellmich: Even if really you are?

Rachel Bourke: Even if really you are, you need to pull yourself together. Calm that tail down. You need to stop wagging and start pulling yourself together. I have really strict rules around this so that you don't get over excited, because over passion kills, okay. There's being too passionate, and this is quite the contrary to what a lot of people think. They think that their passion actually sells. Your passion can kill a sale. You need to be far more constrained in your language. People can feel your passion and your knowledge through your questions and the journey that you take them on. So it's the way you use your voice and the questions you ask and the emotional journey that you evoke in them whilst you're having a conversation that completely blows them out of the water and changes their world. It is very hard, if you do this right, it is very, very hard for anybody else who hasn't been taught how to do this properly, to compete. I don't care who they are or what they sell. So there's a way of doing this that is just great. So therefore, pull yourself together, and then you need to be strict on you know who you bring on board. So make sure you have your questions ready at the ready, and then the client will actually start selling themselves to you. And then, all of a sudden, can you see how price starts to become pretty irrelevant, pretty quickly.

Andrew Hellmich: Let's say someone calls me and they've got this wedding plan that sounds phenomenal. It's at a venue that I want to work at or that I love working at. It sounds like it's going to be the kind of wedding they love to do, so I don't want to show that enthusiasm too quickly. Is that what you're saying? Hold my card a little bit closer.

Rachel Bourke: Totally. I had a call this morning. I had someone ring in. Contacted me through LinkedIn, and he said he was very keen. Kept my cool. Okay, we need another meeting. I don't want to talk about too much today, I want you to actually send me, I want you to send me all the things that I need first, to prepare for our next meeting, I want to see what you're doing, what you're currently saying in your business, the types of messaging you're using, who I'd be working with. I need to know what their attitude is like before we go ahead, you send all this through to me before a meeting next Friday, and then I will take that on board, and I'll present to you our methodology and how we're actually going to change and transform your team if I think it's possible.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So what, inside are you giving yourself high fives? Like, yeah, we've got this!

Rachel Bourke: Oh, absolutely, you know, I want to run down the hall kicking up my heels, because I just know he's just hanging on my every word. You know, it's just, and he's going, "I love it, I just love it. I love it, I love it", but it's wrong of us. You go, I know, I know, I know, I know. And guess what else I can do? I can do, and guess what else, and guess what else you don't want to throw in. You know, you don't want to get too excited with their excitement. You need to stay calmer with that and keep control. So they are expecting you to have a level of control conviction and just not this over excitability, because they need you to be trustworthy and amazing, someone they can rely on and lean on for anything, not flip it and crazy and too much fun. They need to know you're fun and fabulous but incredibly professional and amazing at what you do. That response, that initial thought process about you, comes from the initial interaction. So the worst thing you can do is say, "Yes, I can do that for you. Yes, I can do that for you. Yes. Oh, I love that venue. Oh, that's amazing. I've worked there five times this year, in fact. Oh my gosh, that is my favorite event team over there. Wow. Let me show you everything I could do there. I'll send you every photo I've ever taken." They will hang up the phone and say, "Hmm, I don't think so."

Andrew Hellmich: See to me, I thought that would be nice. So excited.

Rachel Bourke: No way curb the excitement. Your excitement will kill the sale.

Andrew Hellmich: Alright

Rachel Bourke: Yes, or your excitement is going to cost you a very big discount, because they'll expect you to, they'll start drilling you on price, because they know how badly you want the sale. They know you're more excited than they currently am about you, so therefore they say, "Okay, so what will you do it for?" Because you want it more than they do right now?

Andrew Hellmich: Cool

Rachel Bourke: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Let me give you another example that a lot of photographers face, and this is still with wedding photography. The wedding photographers met with the client, and the client seemed keen to go ahead. They didn't pay booking fee on the night. They've gone away to think about it, and we don't hear back, but everything seemed pretty good on the night.

Rachel Bourke: What silly mistake, okay.

Andrew Hellmich: You are getting ready to rip in.

Rachel Bourke: Okay, if you got really great rapport with somebody, now, rapport, we have a model that we teach all of our clients and that hopefully some of you will get to know really well. And it is connect, affect, direct. So you need to connect, affect and direct, but all around that, if that was a model that if they were three words across a page with arrows linking them, right around that model in a circular you know, right around the circle is respect. So there has to be respect for you, respect for them, and that continues the whole time, but you connect with someone, which is what rapport is, sharing stories, sharing a portfolio. "Oh, yes, this looks great, blah, blah, blah", but then you have to affect them emotionally, and unless you deeply affect that person or those people, that couple emotionally by the types of questions you ask them. So you don't just keep them on this massive high. You also take them to some lows. You have to hit some pain points about what's happened to them in the past, or what their fears are around what could happen to their wedding photography. There are certain questions you have to ask that they're like starting to basically tremble in their seats. And then you bring them forward and go, right. This is what we need to do now, until you deeply affect them emotionally, you cannot direct them to do what's next. So I never, ever, ever leave a conversation. If I want to work with someone, I know that I've affected them. And then I say, "Okay, Andy, this is what happens next." And I say, "You go away and think about this if you'd like to or do you feel ready to go now?" And you say, "No, I need to go and think about it." "Okay, great. Well, this is what we're going to do. I want you to think about it. And while you're thinking about, is there anything else you need to hear or see from me today to know that I'm the right photographer for you? So would you like to talk to any of our current clients or our past clients? Would you like to see more of a portfolio? Would you like me to do you up a bit of an idea of the types of shots I would be thinking to do for your wedding? You know, anything you can do, anything would you like to read, any media?"

Andrew Hellmich: Would you list all these?

Rachel Bourke: Yes, give them a drop down list, this is a really important part of our sale system that I don't actually normally ever divulge unless someone's working with us. But this is important, it's called "the convincer question". You have to elicit then convince a strategy. What else do they need from you to feel totally convinced that you are the right person? You ask them that, then they say, this is, "Oh, that'd be great. I need this and this". "Perfect. Let me get that organized for you."

Andrew Hellmich: Sorry. So are you actually looking for an answer?

Rachel Bourke: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So what if that's on, 'no'?

Rachel Bourke: "No, I don't need it." "Perfect. Okay, then this is what we'll do. How long would you like to think about it? How long do you need? Is there anyone else you'll be talking to about this? Mega blah, blah, blah. "Okay, great. All right. Well, Andy, it's currently.." let's just say it's Friday, and you say to me, I need, how long? How long do you need?

Andrew Hellmich: How long do you need?

Rachel Bourke: No, you say, how long, how many days do you need? You tell me, you're my client.

Andrew Hellmich: I want to Monday.

Rachel Bourke: To Monday. Great. All right. Well, I have got availability on Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning. I'm available at three or four or Tuesday morning at 10 or 1030, do either of those times suit you? And you say?

Andrew Hellmich: Yes?

Rachel Bourke: Which one would you like?

Andrew Hellmich: Tuesday morning?

Rachel Bourke: "Tuesday morning. Okay, so Tuesday at 10. Let's do it." So what I'm going to do, let's talk again in my line of work. This might be a little bit too formal for the photographers, but I actually send, and I would, if I was a photographer, I would send my client a calendar invite, I'd say, because most of them have got, everyone's using digital calendars, "I'll send you a calendar invite. So all you need to do, it'll be in your calendar. You just accept that. I'll give you a call, and let's talk through this decision, or your decision. It's a really, really big one, and I want you to take the time necessary to actually think this through, but I'm going to be there to help you every step of the way. So let's talk Tuesday, and I can't wait to see you then."

Andrew Hellmich: Cool, you've had practice doing this, that almost sounds scary to lay it on the line like that, maybe not lay it on the line, but to be really pushing me as the client now, like I've got to make a decision.

Rachel Bourke: But then, because I softened it by saying this is really important. Hand on heart knows, like everything I've ever said and everything that I now teach people to say is because I've said it in the past. I was a personal trainer for 12 years, and as a PT, running a really successful training business where 80% of my clients, over 80% of my clients, stay with me for over 10 years as a PT, that is unheard of, that is because they knew I cared so deeply about them and the decisions they were making and the decisions they weren't making, that was actually massively affecting their lives, that I learned to speak in a way that was incredibly, I suppose, in a way, it made them "Whoa, she makes business", but I do mean business, and they know how much I cared when I meant business. So now I've taken that into every other part of my work, so from an executive coach now through to a sales training business, and now I teach people to speak like that, and they go, "Wow, it's sort of confrontational."

Andrew Hellmich: It is.

Rachel Bourke: But clients just, they value it so deeply that you are there to support them in this big, big decision.

Andrew Hellmich: And I might be totally wrong here, but I can totally understand and see you doing that with a 40 something executive. But what about the 22 year old young couple? Are they going to handle that as well as your 40 year old executive?

Rachel Bourke: Totally.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah?

Rachel Bourke: Probably, yeah. They're savvier than we expect. You know what I mean? Like they're doing serious amounts of research. We have to be amazing on our toes when we're selling to the younger generation….

 
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Andrew Hellmich: This has been an absolute delight. You've been awesome. I'm doing business for 20 years and I didn't realize how I'm doing things wrong. I could be living in a house like yours if I did this correctly.

Rachel Bourke: Exactly. And this is the thing. Andy, you know, we've had people, as I said, from all different stages of their abilities to sell, I suppose. And one of our recent trainings in Sydney, we had a woman who had been in sales for 17 years, and so she thought she knew a lot, and she was quite a successful business owner. And she was in the toilets in the first break I walked in there, and she was like, she looked terrible. I said, "Oh my gosh. What's wrong?" She said, "I've just lost a fortune over the last few years not knowing this stuff. I can't believe I didn't know this." So, you know. And then there's other people who there's their eyes are that that deer in the headlights initially, because they like, "Whoa. This is awesome, but wow, this is totally out of my comfort zone", but within no time at all, you're so in your comfort zone, because it becomes your new way of being and your new way of speaking. And it's all about having, we show people how to sell in a way that is just structured so it works, but flexible and personal enough to be their personality style.

Andrew Hellmich: And you mentioned you got online training. Can you learn this stuff online, or do you have to be face to face?

Rachel Bourke: You can learn so much online, the people who do our online training now. So it's a prerequisite. Everybody has to do our online training before they can come and train in with us in person. So we run two and a half day trainings in Sydney, four times a year, and one in Melbourne. We're heading off to New Zealand soon, and also, you know, love to go to the States where in talks with someone about doing trainings in the States as well. But everyone has to start with the online training. And for all the clients who do the online training, first, they all say, "I can't believe I was doing business without that. How did I not know that? And what was I thinking?" So it's exciting. You get to really think. You get instructed on what you need to be thinking about. There's a thousand things that we could be thinking about in terms of growing our businesses, but there's a structure of what to think about first, and we start unraveling and rolling that out in the right prioritized order in the online training. So you think about your business, you think about your target market, you think about your language, all in the right order. And can you learn it? Well, anyone who does it will be leaps and bounds ahead of where they are right now. Even if you think you're amazing, you'll still be leaps and bounds. In fact. Andy, I'll talk to you about that later.

Andrew Hellmich: And just quickly before we finish off, like in the intro that I read about you and your business, we're talking about neuroscience and linguistics and different things, like, is it technical or is it more?

Rachel Bourke: No, no.

Andrew Hellmich: It's not the real science?

Rachel Bourke: No, as much as I love science, it's not technical, because there's hardly any scientists in the room. And it's not, it's just once. It's just a "Wow, that's easy. Now I know it. It makes sense." It's almost common sense once you know it. So it's not, you know, sit down. We're having a science lesson, everybody, because I think we'd be very poor and we'd be selling you this house. But no, it's really easy to learn, and it's actually exciting to know.

Andrew Hellmich: It sounds like it. Where's the best place for the listener to learn more and find out how to learn this stuff?

Rachel Bourke: Absolutely. Well, please go to our website, salesspace.com.au, so that's S-A-L-E-S, and then S-P-A-C-E, so there's a double S in the middle. But for anybody who would like to email us directly, please email us to [email protected].

Andrew Hellmich: Alrighty, if the audio sounds at all different here, it's because we're recording this part of the episode on a totally different day. I take full responsibility here. Something happened with the audio when I was recording with Rachel in her home, and the audio cut out right at the time, and I was asking about how we can learn more about her and Sales Space and what we can learn from Rachel and what she does with her team. So the last thing I heard from you, Rachel was the best place to get in touch. For the listener, if they want to learn more, is to email you at [email protected], and we're also talking about the online course that is a prerequisite, so a prerequisite for your in-person training. So what is that exactly?

Rachel Bourke: Okay. So the online training is called your Sales Success Kit. It is a standalone training on it by itself. So anyone who's very interested in understanding how to better sell themselves and their services can learn an enormous amount and be at a completely different level in their abilities by the time they do the online training, it's just anyone who comes to train with us in person does need to do this first. It's an online training broken down into small modules with video as well as audio as well as a workbook. So it's a comprehensive training that you can do in your own time.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And so is there, is there examples and things for us to practice? Is there workers? So how does it work? Like if I watch a video, then do I go and practice that on a real client?

Rachel Bourke: Yes, yes, absolutely. But it's not, yes there are examples and yes there are practice, but it's not all about just that as well. I'm not making, it's not just learning new things all the time. It's also making you think about your business and really, really quite targeted thinking, to help you consider things that you may not have considered before that are going to allow you to grow your business substantially compared to where you're at now. So I may have said this in our last recording, but we've had many people who've done the online training said to us, "Gosh, I can't believe we were trying to run a business without knowing this stuff, or without having thought of this about my business.", so it's not only reflective, it's also considering what you want for yourself in the future and then teaching you new skills through examples, practice, working through a workbook, just it's a comprehensive way of learning and matching all different learning types.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. And how much time would I have to set aside to actually do the course and get some benefits from it?

Rachel Bourke: I like people to do the training broken down into sections. So I think if you just try and sit down and do days on end, I think your brain just runs out of steam. I think it's really good if you take it across a few weeks whereby you're planning, you're doing a little bit each day, or, you know, two half days each week, or just an hour each week, but you get very routine with where you're sitting down and doing this, so you get into a rhythm with it. But stretching it out over a few weeks is actually really good. Or, I mean, you could sit down and do it in a weekend as well, if you just wanted to do business planning and you were doing a strategy weekend. You know, you do require a few hours. And the thing is, let's say you want to put 10 hours away to do this properly. Some people zoom through it faster, but it's actually the detail that you put into the thinking that makes the biggest gains in your business.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. Okay. And if there's a husband and wife team listening like, like, I work with Linda, would it be beneficial for both of us to do or is it really just the person doing sales that should do this course?

Rachel Bourke: No, no, definitely not. It's really been and we always encourage any husband and wives or partners who are working together, we encourage you to learn together with the type of work we're doing because, because we are teaching you a different language, a new way of speaking about what you do and when you both learn it together, even if the partner is just supporting you and your business and they're not actually out there seeing clients, it is so helpful to bounce this information off each other and brainstorm and learn together much, much more fun and far more influential.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, I guess the big question that everyone wants to know is, how much does it cost?

Rachel Bourke: Yeah, absolutely. We sell this training for 497 so that's 497 Australian. And the access is for 12 months. And as I said to you, Andy, for the, would love your, all your listeners, to be doing it so for the next week. So up until Christmas Eve on the 24th of December, up until midnight on the 24th we are going to extend a deal that your listeners can buy this for 297 Australian with lifetime access across the next week. So even if you're listening to this and it's almost Christmas Eve, but it's not yet, you have access to this, to this training.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal, that is awesome. Thank you.

Rachel Bourke: You're welcome.

Andrew Hellmich: So with the lifetime access, I'm guessing that means, if you make updates to the course, then the listener that registers for it, they can get those updates as well.

Rachel Bourke: Definitely, absolutely. And we do, we do update this, and you'll just, we update it on our end, you'll just log in and we'll tell everybody that it's been updated so that they know to log in and redo it. The good thing about this, doing this type of training as well, is that if you do it every six months, then you can't believe how far you've come. So just actually doing it now and then doing it again in six months, or even eight months, spreading it out for eight months. But if you do it on a regular basis across the next few years, you will be in, blown away by how far you've come and the level of skill that you, and you learn something new every time you do it, and it just keeps advancing you forward.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. Awesome. Now I know you're under the pump to set up a link for this. You are flat out. It's the week before Christmas, so the listeners wants to register for this course, I've set up a link that's going to lead to the link that you've, that you're going to set up, which is photobizx.com/salesspace. So if you're interested in that course, grab hold of it before Christmas Eve. 2018 midnight, and you save, well, $200 Aussie and in Australian dollars, which is going to make the listener really, really happy, because everything we do here is in US dollars.

Rachel Bourke: Yeah, so Australian dollars. So that's just a massive savings straight away. So yes, we will send you through that link ASAP, Andy, and where you know any, as said by the, so once people are clients of ours as well. So once you buy it, if you have questions about as you're going through the training and you need us to help you, then you can email us at [email protected], and we can help you with your questions as you're going through the training as well. So once you bought it, you are a client of us, and then we will be helping you from that day forward.

Andrew Hellmich: And I should say, I should mention to the listener that when we finished recording last time, and you know, we went on to chat about the in-person or the, what do you call it that? I guess the in-person training.

Rachel Bourke: Yeah, well, it's the face to face training.

Andrew Hellmich: The face to face training, yeah.

Rachel Bourke: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So I registered for that. I mean, I was absolutely sold, and everything we talked about, and I was really pumped, and I'm looking forward to doing that. I think that's in March, the one I'm doing?

Rachel Bourke: Yes, absolutely. It's really great. For the first 10th of March, you'll be a new man.

Andrew Hellmich: Look out. And one last thing before let you go is, I just jumped into your website, and I love, I gotta say, I love the homepage now.

Rachel Bourke: Yes, yes, it's very exciting. That's true. It's taken a lot of work, and we are very happy it's launched. So, um, lots of new things on there, and a lot of new help for clients. We've got some fantastic for free, downloadable eBooks and just loads of great information for people to get in there and just access themselves at any time that suits them, for them to learn

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. Well, I know you've got all that stuff, but what I was really alluding to was the amazing photo of Cole leaping into an ice cold lake in France.

Rachel Bourke: Well, the badass page. So Cole on his bike. I'm sure you took that photo of him, or maybe not. But anyway, he's got it. We've got fantastic photos on there. The homepage photo is, yes, your photo, Andy, and he's got another one called Bio. It's Cole riding, you know, riding up one of the mountains in France when he was over there with you. So very fun time.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. Thanks so much for being understanding and for coming back and doing this little, this little extra recording for us.

Rachel Bourke: You're welcome.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm glad you've come up with that awesome deal as well. It's just unreal. So have a great Christmas, and I'm sure we catch up soon.

Rachel Bourke: Yes, absolutely. And Merry Christmas, everybody. We'll talk soon.