522: Paige McLeod – Everything you need for a successful newborn photography business

522: Paige McLeod - Everything you need for a successful newborn photography business

 

Andrew Hellmich: I can honestly say I am super excited to record this interview today, even more so after seeing today's guest website, her fantastic welcome and explainer videos, her beautiful photography and what looks like an incredible ability to connect with potential clients. Now, the idea for this interview followed this email that I received from Paige earlier, she said, "Early last year, I implemented a base package system that has helped so much in explaining what clients get and what they don't get in that initial session fee, I could usually get them to book if I could get them to inquire. But lead generation was and still is, by far the hardest thing. So I took your book projects course with Katie Kay, then took her mastermind. I took your Facebook competitions class with Ally from Mabel and Moose, and I also took the Facebook lead ads course with John Glaser. The combination of these tactics have worked better than anything I could have imagined, and I'm thrilled to say that the January to March, aka the dreadful slow season, brought in almost $80,000 in revenue for me this year, almost half of what we did for the entire year of 2022. So my reply to that message from Paige was, "What?! 80k already? That is so good. How about we record something to share with other photographers. I'd love to hear the details of what you've implemented, what worked, what didn't, and I know other photographers would love this too. What do you say? You up for an interview?" She said yes, and she's here with us now. I'm talking about Boise, Idaho photographer Paige McLeod, who specializes in maternity, newborn and family photography, Paige, welcome.

Paige McLeod: Thank you. It's fun to be here. I feel like a little bit of a celebrity.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, well, you absolutely are now. Tell me, are things still going, as well as when you emailed me earlier?

Paige McLeod: Uh, yes, and no, I will say that April was a very weird, slow month. It's still good, like we've still did well, I was, I was moaning about it to my husband, and he said, "Well, how much did you guys actually do this month?" I only did five sessions, and my total revenue was 11,720 for those five sessions. So it felt awful, because I was like, "Where is everyone? What's going on?" But I think that attributed to a couple different things, and one of them was that we took a trip to Costa Rica in March, and so I was gone for almost 10 full days of you know, and I just I wasn't on top of all that lead stuff. And I have a studio manager who's great. She's actually leaving me in June, which is going to be heartbreaking, and I'm sorting out all of that, but with me being gone, it was a little more difficult for her to figure out when to book everybody. And I think that was one of my things, that whoever comes in and takes over her place, I'm going to be working with them to try and really solidify that lead process when I'm not here, because I like to travel. I want to be away from the studio, and when I get back, I want to have this full lovely calendar, and not have these months where, shoot, "I took time off, and now I'm paying for it, because nobody got booked while I was gone."

Andrew Hellmich: That makes sense, yeah. But I mean, still an impressive month, nonetheless,

Paige McLeod: Yeah. I mean, we just broke 100,000 today. So that's pretty exciting, especially because, like last year, we did 169,618.72 was our like total for the year.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal

Paige McLeod: So it's pretty exciting to be sitting here on May 1 and be at 100,000 already. I didn't even think that was like a possibility a couple years ago. So, yeah, it feels good.

Andrew Hellmich: So good. So you said "we", and you said your husband said so, you know, what did you guys do this month? So who's the 'we'? I know it's a studio manager. That's Jackie, isn't it?

Paige McLeod: Yep, Jackie's my studio manager as of right now, until June, and then my husband, Ian, and we have three kids, so they're actually involved.

Andrew Hellmich: So it's just you and Jackie working in the business,

Paige McLeod: Just me and Jackie. Yeah, yeah, for business.. right.

Andrew Hellmich: So because I saw, I mean, I was watching your videos, your explainer videos, which are amazing, I want to ask you more about those. But you talked about having a studio assistant or an assistant while you're shooting. Is that Jackie as well, is it?

Paige McLeod: That's Jackie. Yep.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Paige McLeod: That's what's gonna be so hard about losing her, because she does everything for me, and she knows me super well, and she'll get stuff without me asking, and hand it to me before I know I need it, and all that good stuff. I always joke that she's like multiple roles in one, because she's a studio manager, in the sense that she takes all my phone calls and books everybody and gets all that email stuff sorted. But she also is like a client concierge, if you will. So like, when people get here, she's like, "Oh, would you like a glass of champagne? Here's a sparkling water. You know, what would you like to eat? We do a catered lunch on our newborn days." So she takes everybody's orders and she holds the babies while they're changing and all that good stuff. So she's, she's gonna be really hard to replace.

Andrew Hellmich: And what you've done with your videos is amazing. Because, I mean, I feel like I know Jackie even before we started recording. Because you say, you know, when you "If you're interested in booking, you'll have a phone call with Jackie. She'll introduce you to how everything works." And then you talk about, you know Jackie here, Jackie there. So I'm obviously gonna have to re-record some of those.

Paige McLeod: I know that's gonna be a bummer. I just need to find somebody else named Jackie to work for me.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, I love that so. But before we get more into the business, tell me about where you're based. So, I mean, I said Boise, Idaho. Yeah, for photographers or listeners that aren't aware, I believe Idaho- is it known for potatoes?

Paige McLeod: It is. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: That's all I know. That's all I got. So tell me, who are your clients. Do you draw on a big area? Is Boise a big city?

Paige McLeod: Not particularly. I mean, Boise is about 600,000 people. It's not, well, I guess maybe if you include all the outer areas, it's a little bit bigger than that. And now people are going to complain, because they're gonna say, "Well, Boise is 200,000" but, like, you know, so I guess it depends on, like, where you consider the outskirts of Boise, but I would say that my pool is about 600,000 people or so that would be willing to drive in. Everything around us is pretty remote. We don't have, Boise is kind of down here by ourselves. And Idaho is this very long state that kind of looks like a big L, and we're at the bottom of the, like the corner of the L, if you will. So we're like, directly across from Oregon, like Eugene, Oregon is kind of on the other side of us, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you get some pretty cold weather, but everything that you do is studio based. Am I correct?

Paige McLeod: No, I do outdoor too. I do both. Boise is a very four season town, so we get, like, real hot summers, we get real cold winters, and we get everything in between, so we get our full four seasons here.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so winter time, or when it is cold or wet, that's when you only use the studio, or are you rescheduling outdoor sessions?

Paige McLeod: Yeah. I mean, for the most part, people book in the like, fall is huge here. Everyone wants their fall family photos. I think that's kind of classic, especially for Americans. But we, I do a lot of stuff in the fall for families, and then I go back to the studio in the winter, like January, February, March, is almost exclusively studio. And then right about this time of year, like mid-April to May, we start to get the like wildflowers in our foothills. So people all want those spring flowers, and there's cherry blossoms and that sort of stuff. And so we'll do a lot of outdoor sessions in the spring. The summer gets quiet again because it's so hot here, and then we get a lot of wildfires too, so it can be really smoky, and a lot of times we'll have to reschedule sessions, like at the end of August, because it's so smokey, you can't have the kids outside, but so we'll move the studio that way.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. So are you offering people studio sessions? You know, instead of rescheduling or if it's an outdoor portrait, they want an outdoor portrait.

Paige McLeod: I mean, if I can get away with it and do it in the studio. I would prefer it. If I think about my future of you know what I want to do, I would love to get rid of outdoor sessions, not because I don't love them. I love the way they look, but like having three kids of my own, and they're all in sports and activities, and we're the crazy people that drop off one kid at gymnastics, pick up the other at soccer and head to the baseball game. So to do a evening sunset photo shoot right then is very disruptive to my family. And in my ideal world, I'm working during school hours, only working with newborns, and only in the studio where I have complete control over everything.

Andrew Hellmich: That makes sense, and your studio is actually on your, is it a farm property or?

Paige McLeod: It's not a farm. We actually live like almost in the middle of town, so we have 1.2 acres, and just kind of got lucky. We moved here 12 years ago from Seattle, and bought this big piece of property, thinking this is where we want to raise our kids. And my husband has always wanted a detached garage. He's, you know, wanted a spot for his lawn mower, basically. And he wanted to put in a home gym. And I was doing newborn sessions out of what should be our dining room, and it got very old really quick. And I was like, it's very disruptive to the family again, to like, be our house is very open concept, so like, people would walk in and like, see any dirty dish that you left on the counter. And it just never felt, I know some people are so successful doing those at home studios, but it always felt like I didn't have that professionalism that I wanted. I wanted to be able to do a lot of stuff that I just knew I couldn't do in our home. But I also didn't want to pay rent to somebody else when I had this big property. So a couple years ago, we decided to gift each other what we really wanted. I really wanted the studio. He really wanted that at home garage, gym. So we built, it's two car garage downstairs, and then it's 700 square feet up here of, that was as big as we could possibly make it without having to split our lot lines, which is all that silly tax stuff that ends up costing you thousands of dollars more than it really should.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So you have a two story structure at the back of the house or on the property. So one's the garage, and then upstairs is all studio.

Paige McLeod: Yeah. So there's a little entryway downstairs where they come in. My desk is down there, so I have like, a wall of client closet that's like one of those big wardrobe systems. It's got all my dresses and everything on it. So they walk in and feel like they're walking into a studio, not feel like they're walking into my husband's garage gym. The only downside is that they do have to walk upstairs, so that would be my only, sometimes I'll have grandparents or something that it can be tricky with, but otherwise, and we get really beautiful light up here because we have big, huge windows that we have all covered, and we just get that nice, pretty light all day long.

Andrew Hellmich: So good.

Paige McLeod: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Now tell me about your videos, because, I mean, I watched those before we recorded and, I mean, it shows so much. I can imagine that your clients, I mean, I gotta say that first of all, they must be like they know you. And I got a shock today because we have the video on. Obviously, the listeners can't see you, but you look again, I don't want to say this the wrong way, you look way more professional now on this call than what I was expecting after watching, like your videos look very carefree. Your hair's out. It wasn't a lot of makeup. You didn't have your glasses on. It was like, this country girl who's an incredible photographer, and today you look like the business woman. So like, do you dress differently for the shoot and the sales session?

Paige McLeod: Yeah, sometimes I feel like I'm pretty casual. I'm a t-shirt and jeans kind of girl, and that's what I wear for my photo shoots, and what I wear for my videos, and like, I'm wearing my coffee and editing t-shirt today. It's, you know, jean shorts, because it's 80 degrees here and hot and..

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you don't have a different look for the sale session, as to the shooting session?

Paige McLeod: I think so.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool.

Paige McLeod: No. I mean, my whole goal is for people to, like, be able to relate to me and be able to understand that, like, I have little kids too, and I've been there and, like, I'm just a couple years ahead of them. And these are the things that I regretted about not doing for my kids, and what I try to do now that I've gotten a little older. And, you know, obviously with IPS, you're always trying to, like, teach people about that, you know, framing and wall art, and why it's important and all that. So I want people to not feel like I'm selling them, you know. I want them to understand that, like I do this for my family, and this is important to me, and this is why I hope it's important to you too, and why you should book with me so that we can create that, you know, that stuff together and make it feel really special for them. I want them to feel like they can trust me more than anything. So I don't want to be dressed in this way that is, you know, buy from me.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, and that comes across in your videos. So, so well, so did you hire a videographer, and did you script those videos?

Paige McLeod: I hired a videographer, but I specifically told her I didn't want to script it. She asked me questions in advance, and we filled out this little, you know, all these questions about, like, what I wanted to cover in my videos, but then she just asked me those questions in person, and then I talked to the camera. So, you know, there were lots of takes where I was going and, like, kind of fumbling over myself, and felt really silly while I was doing it, but I felt like it became more authentic that way. And she got some little clips, because I would ramble, I talk a lot, and I ramble and I don't know what I'm going to say. And so she got some of that stuff that felt more genuine. I think I was excited with how it came out, because I felt really silly while I was doing it. But then when she showed me the clip, I was like, "Oh, okay, I don't look like a total idiot".

Andrew Hellmich: They are amazing. I mean, like I said, the clients must feel like they know you when they turn up.

Paige McLeod: I hope so. That was my biggest goal, like a lot of the work that we did last year and even the year before, when we first opened this studio, was to try to try to get people to understand as much as they possibly could about us before they ever met us. So I wanted them to know what the space looked like. I wanted them to know that they were coming to a professional space and not someone's home, especially because when you pull into the driveway here, it looks like you're pulling into someone's home. So because you are, but I wanted them to be assured that when you come in, you're not just coming into somebody's dirty kitchen like this is a professional space, here it is. Here are all the amenities that we have, and basically just be able to show that value of you know, there's lots of photographers in Boise. Boise still very much has that $200 newborn photographer that's going to give you 500 photos. You know that exists here, and that's most of them here. So when you're looking at my pricing, and you're assuming you're going to spend at least 2500ish to do a session with me and get a reasonable amount of images, they want to know, I think I would want to know, like, what am I getting for that amount of money? And don't make me come in and do an interview and all this sort of stuff and talk to you on the phone to figure that out, I want to look at your website and know that it's going to be worth it before I go through all those steps. So I try to just kind of put myself in that client journey of like, if I was looking at this website, would I be able to understand everything there is to understand about this business and still be excited to talk to the person on the phone, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Which is what's happening. So are you hearing that from clients like, "Oh, wow." I mean, they coming in shocked, or are they coming in "Oh, this is what we expected, because we saw the videos."

Paige McLeod: I think, I mean, a lot of people, it's always nice, because, you know, when you build something from scratch, you put a lot of your heart and soul into even the little details, like choosing bathroom faucets that you never thought would matter, you know, so when somebody comes into the space and they're like, "Oh my god, it's so beautiful up here, like we love it", that always feels really good, and it feels like you made the right decision for your business, because it's expensive, and you're making these big jumps of leaps of faith that somebody else is going to love it and want their photos taken in that space. So that always feels good. But I do think that most of the people that we book these days have such a good idea of what they're coming into that they kind of feel like they've already been here, like most of them have watched the videos. They've looked at everything on the website. They've gotten all of our emails, we have like a client welcome guide that they get that has lots of pictures within the studio, so they kind of know, it's really weird, honestly, when somebody comes in and doesn't know, I get a little bit taken back. I'm like, "Have you not read anything or seen any pictures?" It's, um, we try really hard to make sure people are very well informed before they ever step foot in here.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's how it looks on the website. And everything is laid out there. People can book on the website. They're seeing their videos. They've got an idea of pricing, but they don't actually get the pricing, do they?

Paige McLeod: So they get starting pricing. We call it base package pricing, so they get that. So the biggest problem that we were having was that, I feel like so many IPS photographers' problem is that you have your session fee, and then you have the clients that call and say, "Okay, so it's $300 or whatever your session fee is. What do I get for that?" And you rattle off this big, long list of all the dresses in this space and my time and my editing and an ordering appointment, all this. And I said, "But so I don't actually get anything?" And it's like, "What do you mean you get nothing? I just told you all these wonderful things that you're getting for that price, but you're right, you don't get any images." And so it's a difficult thing. I found that I had kind of come to terms with and figured out a way to explain to my clients over the years, but it was hard to explain it to Jackie. So when Jackie would get on the phone with new clients. She had a much harder time explaining that session fee to them, because she hadn't lived with it for as long as I had. And so we implemented the base package, which basically is the session fee and our very lowest package put together. So our very lowest package is five digital files and five, five by seven. They're basically proof prints. There's nothing fancy to them. They're on our, we use deep matte paper for everything, so they're on that paper, but otherwise, they're just five by seven prints. It's not supposed to be a great package. You're not supposed to want to just keep that package.

Andrew Hellmich: And how much does that cost?

Paige McLeod: It's 790.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so that's the minimum investment for someone to come in for a session?

Paige McLeod: Yeah. So we did, I did a big cost of doing business about a year ago, and kind of figured out that I had to make at least 700 to just break even on mostly, in particular on newborn sessions, because they're just so time consuming and just a lot of work. So I needed to make a bare minimum of $700 for those sessions in order to make it work for me. And I was having a hard time with anybody that came in and did a full session. We did all these different setups and layouts for them, and they wanted indoor maternity and outdoor maternity, and then they bought four images as five by seven prints, and you're like, "What?!" ,like, "Why do we do all this? If you didn't want any of that?" Just felt silly to me, and I figured out that just covering that base makes me feel so much better. So it's obviously a bummer when somebody doesn't upgrade and doesn't go for a bigger package than the five, but at least it feels like, well, I covered my costs. I got to work with somebody. Hopefully they'll come back to me someday and have a little bit bigger budget. Hopefully they'll tell some friend that, you know, they had a great experience, and it was wonderful, and they should go to them. So we all know, like friends don't spend the same amount of money as each other. So one friend buys the base package for 700 and somebody else comes in and spends 5000 and it's just kind of a, you know, everybody gets to choose their own budget, and so we try to get it so that people can understand what they're getting right out of the bat. And I will say that I think the reason the base package works is because a lot of people think that's all they're going to need.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, until they see the images, have the experience.

Paige McLeod: Yeah, exactly. Like, I've had so many people come in, especially for like, 'baby only' sessions where, like, the family's not involved, and they'll come in and say, "Oh yeah, we're just going to do the five pack." And I say, "Oh, okay, great, no problem. We'll just go ahead and do that." We do the ordering appointment, and then they upgrade and they say, "Wow, I just didn't realize you would be able to get that many different images. I didn't, I didn't think there was any way we were going to like that many." And it always is like a nice pat on the back. You're like, "Oh, good. I did my job well, you know, I wanted you to love them all. I want you to buy all of them." And, you know, like I said, you still get those people that occasionally, like, they just really are at the top of their budget. But it, honestly, it also is like a nice compliment too, that they could have gone to that photographer that would have charged three - 400 and given them all the files, but they wanted my work enough that they spent $800 to come to me and get five images, and that was more important to them than, you know, 500 images from some other photographer that they didn't like as well.

Andrew Hellmich: That's a lovely way to look at it. When you looked at your cost of doing business, what was your starting price or your base package before it went to 790?

Paige McLeod: Before, I just had a $200 session fee.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you made that big jump from $200 to 790. Yes, it includes a few more things, but I imagine you then started getting quite a few inquiries that you had to knock back. I mean, all people just didn't book. It was too expensive. Were you second..

Paige McLeod: Yeah, I think yeah

Andrew Hellmich: I was gonna say, "Did you second guess yourself then, when you had those", you know, "I'm sorry, that's too much for us."

Paige McLeod: Oh, for sure, yeah, because well, so we did a full new website right at the same time that we changed those packages. So when the website went live again, it was all brand new. All looked, you know, totally different. And it all has, you know, the videos and everything that you're seeing describing the experience. So I think we definitely saw a drop in leads. But we saw, like, I don't get those people that come in and are sitting here at the ordering appointment going, "Oh, I didn't realize it didn't include the digital files." That doesn't happen anymore, because they know they're only getting five, so they're well aware that, because that says you're getting five, that there's others that they didn't get, you know, versus, like, you know, if you just say, like, oh, the session fee, there's this like, weird misunderstanding, where people think that it means they get all the digital files. They just also have to order prints, you know. And so I think it kind of clarifies that for a lot of people, that the digital files are purchased separately, and then we have a pricing sheet that goes out before anybody you know really gets in here, that they see all the different upgrade packages, all the different levels that they could be at, all the ala carte products, and they have the ability to just walk away with digital files if they want. They're very expensive to do it that way, but they can.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. So I still want to dig in Paige where, when you raise your prices, because the biggest fear that so many photographers have would be introducing, say, a 790, or $800 starting price. Because I imagine when you made that change, I'll ask you again, like, did you get people saying, "Oh my God", or was your website pushing those people away even before they called?

Paige McLeod: I think the website was pushing most of them away, because it says, right there on the website, '790'. It was pretty rare, and still is pretty rare, that we get phone calls that people don't at least know that 790 price point. I mean, it still happens, like, especially for like, Instagram leads and stuff that they haven't looked at the website at all. They have no concept beyond just seeing our pretty pictures on Instagram. So when they inquire and they see that 790 we get a lot of like, "Oh my gosh. I can't believe, I had no idea. Did you know so and so down the street charges 300", you know, and so we get a lot of that, but not from people that came to the website, if that makes sense, like when they come from other sources, or they blindly call us and they don't look at anything first, yeah, we for sure get the like, "Holy moly, 790s a lot." But I think those people would have felt that way if they'd looked at the website too, you know, like they would have never been our clients no matter what. I don't think that they would have been good fits if it was a $200 thing, either. So I don't know. I've only seen really good, positive things from that base set, base package, because I feel like it clarifies a lot. Like it, it solidifies those lines in their mind, of like, what's included, what's not included. You know, how much would you have to upgrade? A lot of the big question we get now is, "So if I want more, how much does each individual image cost?" And so we then have to get into that of like, okay, so when you want to upgrade, inevitably, where are we going from there? And then we have a, we have a kind of a hidden page on our website that we'll send to them, and they can see all those different breakdowns. And our digital file price goes down like the more you buy. So we kind of explain that to them, like, you know, "You buy the bigger package, it's going to cost less per image. And, you know, it's kind of expensive to add on one."

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. So do you get into the nitty gritty of the price list? If they say, so, you know, "If I'm going to want more, how much am I going to spend?" Or do you do you say something?

Paige McLeod: I do.

Andrew Hellmich: You do, so, but do you get into the nitty gritty? Or do you say, well, most families, when they fall in love with their photos, spend two and a half thousand dollars.

Paige McLeod: I mean, it depends on how much somebody pushes me on the phone. Usually, what I'm trying to do is get them to come in and see me, so that I can explain it to them in person and show them everything. Because if I can get them in here, I can usually get them booked. It's pretty rare that somebody comes in for a consult and leaves and doesn't book with me. So if I can get them past that point on the phone of like, just come see me. Then I can explain it so much better in person. And usually that's where I'll go on the phone is, I'll say, "You know, we've got this whole price list. It's a little bit difficult to explain it on the phone. We like for you to come in. You can see the studio in person. I can show you all of our beautiful maternity gowns and all the cute little newborn outfits. And then we can go over stuff. And then you can pick a feel and decide if it's the right fit for you." And most people at that point will say, "Oh, yeah, that'd be great, you know, what date", you know, and schedule a time with me right there on the phone so that we can kind of move that process forward. That's my ideal world, too, because I'd rather them come in and see everything and like, know that they're happy and that they probably will upgrade, and it's going to cost, you know, generally, we're between that 790 and, like 3200 is kind of our like, we have clients that will spend more than that, but that's pretty rare. Most people are, you know, around that 3000 mark. So I want people to know that. I want people to come in and have a grasp of that and know that in order to really get something, you're probably going to spend between 2500 to three grand.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Love it. I love it. So what do you do? What do you say to the person that's on the phone and they say, "Whoa, you know, Sally down the road is $200 for 500 digital." What's your reply to that person?

Paige McLeod: I mean, it's always really hard, because I try to get off the phone as fast as I can, honestly, like, because I know that if that's where they're going with it, I don't think that I can convince them otherwise, you know, like, generally, I will start to talk about, like, how all of our images are made to be printed, so we spend a lot of extra time and care making sure that every little detail is edited to perfection and ready to be printed on your walls. And you know, if you're going to print this big, it's really important that it's, you know, calibrated to your computer, you know. And I'll get into all of that stuff about why editing for print is different than editing for the computer, but honestly, like, those people are not going to book me anyway. And so usually I'll say, like, "You know, there's lots of great options in Boise. If you'd like to look into some of the others, let me know if you, you know, change your mind." This is our pricing, you know, let's like, it's not even worth trying to go further, because it just is what it is, you know, yeah, and it's true, like, there's, there's amazingly talented in home newborn photographers here that do a beautiful job for seven, 800 bucks. Like, if you want somebody to come to your house do it there, you can hire those photographers in there. They do a great job. And so I don't do in home newborn sessions at all. I only do them in the studio, and that's just my personal preference. I don't like going into people's homes, and I like my spot that I know where everything is and what the light's going to do in here, and I've got access to all my things. And so a lot of times I will start to talk about that too, of like, you know, it all comes down to, like, what kind of session do you want to have? What are the other photographers putting out there, you know, like, what are they giving you for that 500? Is it just about image count? If you're looking for the, you know, a mass amount of images you can possibly get, then I'm definitely not the right photographer for you. But if you're looking for the experience and having this lovely date together with your spouse and your new baby, and getting to come and have champagne and not have to think about what to wear, then, you know, you're going to walk away with five to 30 beautiful images that are going to capture that process, you know, and you're going to have really great memories of that event. I don't know that's a hard one.

Andrew Hellmich: That's fine. That makes sense. That's great. Last question about the video. You featured a lovely family in the video. Did they get a discount? Were they someone that you knew? Who was that family in the videos?

Paige McLeod: They did. Yeah. So I used two different families, mostly because I was nervous about the baby's due dates and like, making sure we had somebody lined up. So we ended up actually doing two days of shooting, and I put out an ad, you know, I put out a post on Instagram that basically said, "Hey, we're filming this video. I'm looking for families that are willing to be on camera. Give us a testimonial. Let us film the whole thing. We'll provide hair and makeup for you, for the mom and then catered lunch. You know, you're going to get this package that normally. So our luxury package, with all that stuff, is 990 so it's an extra $200 to do all the good stuff." So they were getting this $990 base package. They had five images. If they didn't want the five images, they could take that $590 credit and apply it to something bigger. And both of those families, I think they both spent two grand on top of getting their free so it was great for me, because I got these lovely models, and I got my stuff filmed, and they still were really good clients.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. I love that. That is awesome. You've mentioned catered lunch a couple of times, Paige, like, is that just from downtown. And, like, how does that work?

Paige McLeod: Yeah. So we have like, four different restaurants that we really like and just have their menus available. We usually send them two or, you know, two nights before their session, will say, "Hey, these are our favorites. You know, look over the menus and let us know what sounds good the morning you arrive." And so we have, like, a sandwich shop, a poke bowl shop, a burrito spot, and then I think there's another sandwich soup sort of place, and we just let them pick and it's usually about $50 or so of, and that includes my lunch. So me and the..

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. I love it.

Paige McLeod: And Jackie and then the couple all get our lunch that day, and Jackie gets them all set up so that they're comfortable up here. And then we do the same day reveal for them. So I go downstairs, get all their images edited and clean, not cleaned up, but soft proofed, so that they can see them that same day. And then they get to just sit back and have lunch and relax for a minute. Sometimes mom feeds the baby during that time. And it's just kind of a really nice wind down. They get really excited to see their images that same day and, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: You know what I love about this Paige is I feel as though the couple, the clients, are really getting a proper experience. They're falling in love with the whole day, the whole process, no wonder they want to spend more.

Paige McLeod: Yeah, yeah. I mean that. I feel like, when you have a photo shoot go wrong, that's like, very much colors your opinion on those photographs. You know, like, if you have kids that are just losing their minds and the photographer is not really helping, and it's cold and wet and everybody's miserable when you look at those photos, even years later, you're like, "Yeah, that was a terrible day. Like, nobody had fun." And I don't want my clients to feel that way, you know? I want them to feel like, "Oh, somebody took care of me all day." Like, I like to think of that like the new mother thought process of like, they just had a baby. They're tired. They may or may not have a super helpful spouse. Hopefully, they do, but not everybody does, and I want them to feel like somebody took care of them, somebody knew what to do with their baby, somebody knew how to keep them comfortable, somebody knew how to soothe their baby when they cried, and, you know, got them a glass of champagne and brought them lunch and let them sit back, and, you know, like, we change dirty diapers, and that's one of the things that always makes me laugh. When people be like, "Oh, you don't have to do that." I'm like, "Well, I got paid to do that. It's okay. I don't mind changing a dirty diaper." And it's all part of that. Like allowing us to, just like you get to sit back, we're taking over. We've got this under control. And actually having that mentality has really helped with the flow of my sessions, too, because I feel like moms trust me more, because I'm taking charge, I'm taking command of the room and saying, "Yep, this is what's going to happen next, and we're going to make it really comfortable for you." And so I think when somebody else takes over for you, you lose a little bit of that command, and it, I don't know, I think that's when things go wrong up here. You know, when we don't have control of the situation, we have families that are not as happy. And I want everybody to be happy so that when they look at those images, they only remember, you know, how lovely it was and that also helps with referrals. You know, they're gonna go tell their friends what a great day they had.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, I haven't looked but I can just imagine your reviews must be incredible. The referrals must be amazing. I mean, I can just imagine the new mums going to talk to their girlfriends, talking about the champagne, the catered lunch, the way you spot and even change their nappies, their diapers. And what, I mean, yeah. I mean, who wouldn't be raving about you and Jackie after a session? The big question I've got, in regards to the business side of things, is, if you have a $790 base package, which you've explained, and it makes total sense, then you in the intro. I said, you know you did John Glaser lead ads course, and he's massive, or all about giving away free sessions and upselling afterwards. How did you combine those two? Or didn't you?

 
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Andrew Hellmich: Well, I've got one more question about exactly that in just a second before we finish up, Paige, just let us know, the listener to know where we can see your incredible work, where you are online, where people can see what we've been talking about.

Paige McLeod: Yes. So my Instagram is @GleanandCo. It's G-L-E-A-N-A-N-D-C-O and then the website's the same, www.gleanandco.com.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. I'll add links to those in the show notes. And yeah, people can go and check out your incredible website, those amazing videos, and get to feel like they know you the way I do after watching those videos. Just to finish off, Paige, Glean and Co, where does that come from? What does it mean?

Paige McLeod: Well, I actually inherited the name. So I used to have a business partner. She was a wedding photographer, and she liked the word 'glean' because it means to gather, like gather, gathering someone's memories. And so when I came on board in 2017 we became Glean and Co because it was the two of us, so we joined forces, and then she actually moved away in 2019 so I bought the company from her, and immediately got rid of all things wedding. So occasionally we still get wedding inquiries, and I say, we don't do that anymore.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. I love it. I'm thinking, I wonder what this means.

Paige McLeod: Yeah, to gather bit by bit, gather your memory.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I love it. It's cool. And so people do think you're a bigger company than what you are?

Paige McLeod: Yeah, a lot of times people think that we have multiple photographers, and that's actually strategic on my part, because I would like to have multiple photographers someday. I've had associates in the past, especially when we were doing weddings, we had a couple different associate photographers. I've used people here and there, and I like to get to the point where we use more associates and can grow, because I've only got so many hours, and I really want my hours to stick to those times that my kids are at school. So I'd love to have somebody come on board and be like my outdoor photographer that only does those beautiful sunset sessions for me, and you know, maybe in the next year or so, we're working on it.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. Well, look, let's get you back in 12 months’ time, get an update.

Paige McLeod: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: In the meantime, massive congrats on your success. I'm so glad you messaged me with that update. And yeah, you're incredible. What you've achieved is amazing, and I can't wait to follow along. So thanks again for coming on and sharing everything you have, Paige.

Paige McLeod: Thanks for having me.