466: Helen Schryver – Work less and make more by tripling your portrait photography prices

466: Helen Schryver – Work less and make more by tripling your portrait photography prices

 

Andrew Hellmich: UK photographers are often heard to say, "It's tough to charge what many other photographers do in other parts of the world", and that their market is just different to everywhere else. And last year, I posted a request inside the members Facebook group looking for successful UK based portrait photographers to interview and help dispel those myths. Since then, I featured a few photographers, including the amazing Helen Bartlett from Episode 435, and Seona Misumi from Episode 428, and recently, I'm happy to report another photographer sent me a PM, and she says, "Hi, Andrew, hope you're well. I commented on your post a while back asking about UK photographers hitting good average sales. You asked me to report back if things continued going well for me. Well, I put my prices way up around this time last year, and I almost trebled them. My averages have also more than trebled, and it's now 1700 UK pounds, and I just made a 2400 pound sale in just 30 minutes, which prompted me to message you smiley emoji, happy to chat sometime. I do lifestyle documentary shoots, mostly in my clients homes, and I do IPS in their homes too." So that was enough for me to send an invite for this interview. I'm talking about the lovely Helen Shriver, and I'm rapt to have her with us now. Helen, welcome to the podcast.

Helen Schryver: Hi, thanks. Thank you for having me.

Andrew Hellmich: Is it true, like is the UK market different? Do you think to, to other parts of the world? And I know you are UK based, but from what you've heard on the podcast?

Helen Schryver: I think it is to an extent, I think families in the UK, for them having a photo shoot each year isn't really particularly the dumb thing, as I know it is in the US, I'm not so sure about in Australia or elsewhere, but yeah, people often need, like, a reason to book a shoot. It's not necessarily something that they'll do on a regular basis.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. Look, I think that's pretty similar the world over. Certainly here in Australia, we need to give, you know, families, and particularly mums, a reason to, you know, pick up the phone or send the email to make a booking. But what about on the sales side of things, like, once you've photographed a family, do you find it's, you know, pretty easy to make a good sale?

Helen Schryver: It is, but I think it is now because of the prep that I put in with the client, in sort of establishing that in their mind that they're going to be spending a certain amount of money, and that we're going to be looking at buying print products as well as digital files. And I kind of, I work on that from the very beginning now with clients like I get straight on the phone with them and stuff like that. If you'd asked me a couple of years ago, I would have said, like, "British people just won't spend that much on photography."

Andrew Hellmich: Right, which is what we hear so often.

Helen Schryver: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: So I'm curious though. Like, I know you say it's easier now and you have these processes in place, but like, if you hadn't known the processes a couple of years ago, do you think you would have got the same sales as you do now? Or do you think it's more of a mindset thing?

Helen Schryver: It's definitely hugely a mindset thing. Yeah, that's the other thing that's changed for me in about the last year. So I started working with a couple of coaches, so Jeff Brown, who I know, has been on the podcast a couple of times. I did his like mentoring program, and then also worked with another coach, who's kind of, she was a photographer herself, and she's kind of business and what's the word, like a life coach as well. So I worked on mindset a lot with her, which was, yeah, super helpful. So it's got a lot to do with it.

Andrew Hellmich: What was her name? Or what is her name?

Helen Schryver: That's Natalie, Mackenzie Brown.

Andrew Hellmich: And she's based in the UK as well, like, Jeff?

Helen Schryver: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. So which of those two coaches was it that prompted you to triple treble? I was gonna say triple and combine it with triple, to triple your prices.

Helen Schryver: I remember a conversation with Jeff. I just remember him, like, in a really blasé way saying, "Well, obviously the digital file should be at least 900", and I remember thinking, "What that's insane." I think mine were 450 for the full set at the time. And he just seemed so confident saying it himself. And I knew he'd obviously had success with his own photography business. So yeah, that kind of stands out. And then what I also did was I looked at exactly how many shoots I wanted to be doing each year, how much money I wanted to make, how much time I actually have to do that, and realize pretty quickly, like they needed to go up a lot, they needed to at least double for me to just be able to survive, really, and have a nice lifestyle.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so let's just dive into the numbers just a little bit, just so the listeners got a bit of an idea.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, sure.

Andrew Hellmich: So what was your target like? What revenue did you want to be turning over?

Helen Schryver: So when I put them up, I wanted, I think my goals have changed hugely. They just keep going up and they, at the time, I wanted to make sales of about 60,000 a year.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and this is British pounds.

Helen Schryver: Yes, yeah. I'm not sure how that translates. I'm afraid.

Andrew Hellmich: That's okay. So 60,000 and then so you looked at the amount of hours you had available, and then how many shoots you could fit in those hours, and realize, "Okay, I've got to be doubling my prices to even get close to 60,000."

Helen Schryver: Yeah, exactly. And it's something that I've done again this year, and I've really looked at the shoots I did last year, what money I made from different types of shoots. So I do mini shoots, and I do like, full kind of two hour shoots, and really looked at what were the most profitable shoots that I do, and how many of those can I fit into my year? And then from there, I decided where I was going to try and get them from, get those bookings from.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're really choosing the prices to give you the lifestyle you want, not what you think the photography is valued at.

Helen Schryver: Exactly. Yes, because I know that I wouldn't have paid, I maybe still wouldn't pay what I charge. But it's not about me, it's about what the client thinks is worth it. And they're in a whole different generally, they're in a whole different pay bracket than I am. They earn more money than I do, so they're willing to spend that amount.

Andrew Hellmich: Before we talk about those clients. What are your targets for this year, 2022?

Helen Schryver: So this year, it's bit tricky with VAT, whether I stay under or go well over. So that's basically like an added, like an extra tax we have to pay. So I'm going to be seeing how it goes. After about six months, my target's at least 100k. And I hope to either, like completely smash that, or I'll actually decide to stay under the VAT threshold, which is a bit less than that.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so is that a conversation that you'll have with your accountant, or you just make that decision when it comes to it?

Helen Schryver: I think I'll just make that decision, because it'll come down to just maybe slowing down towards the end of the tax year and not doing as many shoots then, or perhaps, like, you know, putting people off into the next year.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so the VAT, what percentage is that in the UK?

Helen Schryver: I don't actually know.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, that's fine. That's fine. So in Australia, we have the GST, which is, I guess, similar the goods and services tax. And we basically, well, we have to include that in our pricing. So doesn't the VAT, doesn't it get passed on to the clients anyway?

Helen Schryver: It does, but that obviously just makes the total bigger for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay.

Helen Schryver: So, yeah, I would then have to charge even more, and then I pass that on to the government, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So you collect VAT from the client, pass it on to the government. And you may not know this, but do you have to show that VAT on the invoice to your clients so they know that's VAT?

Helen Schryver: I think, I think I would have to, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay. Okay, so you'll make that call when it gets to and again, just for the listener who's based overseas, let's say in US dollars, 100,000 UK of British pounds, is at the moment, 126,000 US dollars, to give you a bit of an idea. So we're talking about a great little business. You're making good coin.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, I certainly am now, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Helen Schryver: I guess there's like, I don't have any studio costs. My costs are actually pretty low. I don't have a lot of fixed costs. My costs are sort of per client. It's getting to their house for the shoot. It's like the travel costs going back to do the viewing appointment, and then it's, yeah, like the cost of what they buy into like, I don't have a studio space or an office space or anything that I need to pay for.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, you're just running everything from home, from a, a bedroom at home. You know, talking about your clients, I can just hear the UK based photographers screaming at me to ask where you're based. And I know they're all thinking, I bet she's based in London. Are you based in London?

Helen Schryver: Um, sort of. So most of my work is in London, but I'm actually based in the SouthEast of England, in a place called Ashford. We're lucky we have a fast train to London, so I take the train quite a lot. But as time goes on, I'm getting more and more clients that are based down this way. And again, I think that was probably partly a mindset thing. I was thinking I need to market to London, so that's where the rich people are. And actually I'm realizing now that there are rich people everywhere, in little pockets and little areas. I think there are.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're making the same kind of sales now from your own community.

Helen Schryver: I am. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. And is that a surprise to you, or would it be a surprise to other photographers in the UK that you're doing that? Do you think?

Helen Schryver: Absolutely, yeah, it is a surprise for me. The other thing is, I did just full disclosure. A lot of my clients in London are from overseas. Some are from the US or from Canada or from Australia. And I used to say to myself. "Well, that's why they're spending more, because they're not British", but actually, so I put my prices up, and I just thought, "Well, I'm just going to go for those clients." But actually, the more I present those prices to people and just think, "Oh, they're not going to book because they're from here." Actually, they do. I think a lot of people don't actually know how much photography costs, and what I do is basically, here's the price, and this is why it's worth it. This is the service that you're getting to justify that price. It's like a world away from a sort of shoot and burn, you know, like that. When people post on Facebook and they're like, "Someone that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, someone's really reasonable, blah, blah, blah." So, yeah, my job is to show them what they're paying for, what they get for that money in terms of service.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. I'm gonna ask you how you do that. But firstly, what are you doing to attract people from Australia, the US, overseas? Were they visitors, or are they residents now in the UK?

Helen Schryver: So they're residents, to be honest. Like, I think that's why I've assumed that hiring a photographer is a more regular thing for families from the US particularly, I would say, you know, they have a baby. Of course, they're going to have a newborn photo shoot, and they'll have one each year. And maybe it's also the fact that they live here and their family are back home in the US, so they want photos to send to family and that kind of thing. But as I say, that's like, that was my kind of old view of it, but now that I'm booking people from here too that are paying those prices, and I'm not so sure I could be wrong.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. Well, let's talk about your business now, like, what are you doing to actually find these people, to get the phone ringing, to get the emails coming in, to get the inquiries booked?

Helen Schryver: So I do a lot of what I call promotions. So I would include in that, like the Facebook ads, the Bernie ads, the module calls, I'll do kind of three or four of those a year, and get 10 shoots roughly booked from each one. So that keeps my diary like fairly full. I did you know Julie Christie talks in business, so she has a giveaway strategy in her membership group, which was, well, that's worked amazingly for me. I did that in January, and I booked 10 shoots from that as well. Then I have, I create a lot of content that's useful for families in London. So I'll create, like a guide to alternative Christmas activities in London, for example, and then I'll put that out into Facebook groups and to my email list and that kind of thing. And on social media people who aren't already on my list, obviously, they're going to give me their email in order to download it, and then I'll have a sequence of emails going out to them.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. I love it. Okay, so I had a look. You're not actually running any ads right now, but we're all familiar with those style of ads. The giveaway strategy, I'm assuming, guessing that runs on Facebook as well.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, so that was on Facebook and Instagram. I didn't actually advertise that to my email list. So I just wanted kind of new clients, as it were, new people, new followers. And I gave away a photo shoot with a few digital files and a large piece of wall arts that was worth 1300 pounds. And then what I've done is send out vouchers as runner up prizes to everybody else who entered.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it.

Helen Schryver: Yeah. And they ended again. They got a sequence of emails, then persuading them to use the voucher.

Andrew Hellmich:
Absolutely, okay, yeah. And again. So, I mean, there's nothing sort of extraordinary that you're doing. You just being consistent with your marketing and bringing people to your website and generating leads.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, exactly. I have, like, a plan for the year, for marketing, where I've got a different focus in each month or two, which I think was so useful when I was planning this year. Like, how much do I want to earn over the year? Where is that money actually going to come from? So I can see from past figures, like, what I tend to make on average from a mini shoot, what I make from a full shoot. How many inquiries do I get that are fully paying clients? i.e. they're not from a promotional type activity. And then I've basically assigned, like, exactly how many people do I want to book for each sort of marketing campaign that I have planned in?

Andrew Hellmich: So you're pretty strategic with this whole thing. Like, this isn't happening by accident, is it?

Helen Schryver: No

Andrew Hellmich: Do you know offhand how many clients you're looking to book throughout the year, roughly?

Helen Schryver: Yes, so I looked my target is to get five. Like, again, fully paying clients. So people who are coming to me would like to book a shoot, and I want five of those per month, and they have another sort of three or four that can be from a model call this 10. In my experience, like for me, they spend slightly less. It's still a good average, and it's a cheap way of getting people through the door and filling my diary so I want sort of three or four that maybe aren't paying me a session fee. They've got a free shoot whatever reason, or, like, a voucher or something.

Andrew Hellmich: And that's per month as well.

Helen Schryver: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're looking for around eight to 10 sessions per month.

Helen Schryver: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So it's pretty manageable then too, as well for you.

Helen Schryver: It is, yeah, and I'm actually, I've outsourced quite a bit recently as well. So I've lightened my workload in terms of, like, I just, I do the shooting and the selling appointments, and then I'm doing a lot of my marketing, still myself, but I have taken on someone to help me with that, and also a virtual assistant who does a lot of my admin for me now, which is amazing.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So when you say you've outsourced the marketing. So there was a big question about this just recently inside the members group, there was a photographer asking, you know, it was basically saying that they don't enjoy the marketing of their business as much as the shooting, and probably the selling as well. And can you outsource the marketing? What are you actually outsourcing?

Helen Schryver: So I'm basically, I've taken on somebody to help me with social media. It's not a huge amount. She's going to do like, two or three posts for me a week, one of which is going to be a reel, because I don't understand reels. And she's also kind of a PR expert, so she knows about things like approaching influencers on Instagram. So we're looking at doing that, like maybe finding someone we can offer a free shoot to and work with that way, and that kind of stuff. So she's a marketing expert, so she's got a good kind of overview, and can help with bits here and there as and when I need them. And then she's also going to be doing my social media sort of week by week.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Okay. So you're still going to run the Facebook ads, you're going to run the giveaway promotions, and, you know, design the guides and give them away to your different Facebook groups and things like that. You're still doing the bulk of that heavy lifting.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, it's like, the stuff that I actually enjoy more is the planning and the coming up with the ideas and stuff I actually, I do enjoy writing some types of content. The bit that for me, like takes time, is if I've written a blog post, say, of tips or something, it's then breaking that down into social media posts. It's putting that as a Google post. It's creating a newsletter out of it that can go out to my email list. So my virtual assistant will actually do those bits, because it's kind of just copy and pasting, but it does just take so much time, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it.

Helen Schryver: To get rid of that bit.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. I'm looking at your website, and I've got to say, it's absolutely fantastic. It's a gorgeous website. It's beautifully done. I can see that it's also a marketing machine. Is it as effective as you want it to be? I mean, you've got opt in boxes there. One is for your price list, another one to get one of the guides that you talked about. Are people signing up for those things?

Helen Schryver: Yes, I think when I last checked, I have about 20 people a month download my pricing. Which is okay, I think. I've only just started, I've only just kind of put a an email sequence out to those people. I'm ashamed to say before, they were just downloading the pricing and then just not hearing from me. I have rectified that now, so it'd be interesting to see how well that works. But yeah, like, I'm pretty pleased with that figure.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. I think 20 a month is fantastic, but you can't really assess how that's working it, because you don't know how many of those people actually calling back for shoots.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, exactly, yeah. I haven't really got like, the kind of results to look at from that, but I've booked at least two this year that downloaded my pricing and then got in touch themselves.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic, great. And they told you that, did they or you asked them?

Helen Schryver: Yeah, yeah. I asked everyone, like, how they found me.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. The guides that you referred to like you sort of underplayed them a little bit, because I did download one of your guides when we were setting up this interview, and let me see that I've got it here in front of me, the one that I downloaded, which one is this? This is the free, ultimate family adventure guide to spring in London 2022, this thing is amazing.

Helen Schryver: Oh, thanks!

Andrew Hellmich: It is so good. First of all, do you want to describe it to the listener?

Helen Schryver: Yeah, so it is what it says on the tin. It's a guide to spring activities in London for families. I try and make it a little bit kind of alternative, kind of not giving people, like, the obvious things to do they probably already know about. And then I've got different categories. There's one for like, walks and trails. There's indoor activities for when the weather's rubbish. There's outdoor activities, quirky and fun, museums. Can't remember what else. Oh, and like foodie things, like afternoon tea and that kind of stuff. So I source my ideas from Facebook and Instagram. I'll ask in groups, and I'll just put a post out on my personal page, or whatever, like, kind of give me your ideas. So that takes a lot of the work out of it for me, obviously, then I'll have a Google and see what else I can find, and then put it together.

Andrew Hellmich: And do you do that, or do you hire a designer to help put it together?

Helen Schryver: No, I do that. So I did it on Canva actually. I love Canva.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, look. It's absolutely gorgeous. And like you said, it does what it says. It does. It's got links. It's got so many different great ideas, like, I'm building this up to be something amazing. Is it getting downloaded and used? Are you hearing about it from clients?

Helen Schryver: Yes, yeah, I am, actually. So I did one for Christmas. That one was, I think about 110 downloads, and this spring, one was 80 something. I think I could market it a lot better than I have. I've created, like, a lot of social media posts from it, and that kind of thing. And then, you know, to get the full guide, go to the link in my bio, that kind of stuff. But yeah, like, I'm happy with those numbers. And I've had, I had too many shoots booked from it, and one full shoot so far as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic.

Helen Schryver: So that's people who've downloaded it and then received some emails from me afterwards.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and this one I did see there is a follow up sequence, email sequence, so you've got that in place.

Helen Schryver: Oh, you've been getting that.

Andrew Hellmich: So you've got that in place, which is great. This PDF idea, this idea of giving away things to do for families, like, it's not 100% photography related..

Helen Schryver: It's not.

Andrew Hellmich: But perfect for your target clients. This is the kind of thing I've heard, you know, other interview guests talk about, but I never hear about, you know, members and listeners actually implementing it, because it just seems like too much work, but it sounds like it wasn't a huge amount of work.

Helen Schryver: I quite enjoyed doing it, and I think I saw the potential for various ways of potentially bringing clients in from it. And the other thing I did was anyone who sent me a tip of a place or an activity that I then used in the guide. I then gave them a 50 pound voucher to use towards photo shoot.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice.

Helen Schryver: That was a lot of people that I could then get back in touch with personally and offer them that and offer them the chance to have a call with me and talk about what they could use that voucher towards. I mean, 50 quid doesn't go very full. It's like, you know, it's starting a conversation, I suppose.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. And were people responsive to that?

Helen Schryver: Yeah. So I've put one shoot from that as well actually, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool, awesome. And so you've done a series of these guides. So it sounds like once you've got one for spring, one for Christmas, you can just update them and, you know, reuse them every year from now on.

Helen Schryver: Oh, yeah, completely. So I think the design sort of part of it probably took the longest, but now I can just use the same template each time. And as said, in terms of, like, the ideas for what to include, like, it's all there on the internet.

Andrew Hellmich: And from other followers, yeah.

Helen Schryver: Other people are writing the same kind of content, you know? And then, as I say, with asking people for ideas as well, that was I got a lot of things I wouldn't have found otherwise that I could include.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. Have you tried advertising this or these in a Facebook ad or Instagram ad?

Helen Schryver: I haven't actually, no.

Andrew Hellmich: All right

Helen Schryver: Not yet.

Andrew Hellmich: I'd be curious to hear how that would go for your target market.

Helen Schryver: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So you talked a little bit about your mindset change. Just tell me a little bit and the listener about your actual business. So I said in the intro, you go to clients homes. So is it day in the life photography? Is it documentary style photography only that you're doing?

Helen Schryver: Not really. I think I've kind of settled somewhere between lifestyle and documentary. What I found was my clients are very busy. They don't particularly like the idea of spending a whole day with a photographer. So I actually, my shoots used to be about three hours as standard, or there was the option to spend a whole day with me. I've actually, I think I've still got the full day on my website, but I'm going to be taking it off as an option. So now it's just, I say, "Allow up to two hours for your shoot, but about an hour and a half is usually enough", and I actually do find that's the case. Perhaps, having more experience, I'm just now, like, just kind of quicker at getting what I need, I suppose, what I know they want.

Andrew Hellmich: So let's say I make an inquiry. I've downloaded your guide. I've had a few emails. I love your work. I request a chat, which I can do on your website. We have a chat. What are you telling me on that chat? Like, are you just making out that it's going to be a real simple, easy shoot, and then are you selling me on the idea of buying wall art?

Helen Schryver: Yes. So I have my print products are wall art albums and then print boxes. So I ask a lot of questions, though, initially I think that's really important. So a big one for me is I'll ask, have they had a photo shoot before? How did they feel about the experience of that shoot? What did they end up purchasing? And they'll usually say, "We just got the digital files." So then I say, "And what have you done with those digital files?" And that's kind of like my gateway into talking about why I sell products and not just digital files. Because I'd say probably is at least half the time they haven't actually done anything with the digital files from a previous photo shoot, or they'll have done something themselves, but maybe it was more hassle than they expected. That kind of thing, like, everyone's kind of time is money. So I kind of try and get that across, like, "I come back to you, don't have to travel anywhere. I come back to you, show you everything", and I always try and get an idea of what they might be interested in. So it's like my first chance to kind of basically plant the seed in terms of what they might like to buy that I can offer them.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And is that then, when you're talking about wall art or albums, like you're planting those seeds?

Helen Schryver: Yeah, I'm usually, usually telling them, they'll probably want both.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice.

Helen Schryver: It's not an either.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Helen Schryver: Yeah. So I say, like, I have collections that include digital files, wall art and an album. Or, like, my top collection includes, like, a whole kind of gallery for the wall, a big like arrangement, the best album, too many albums for grandparents and that kind of thing. So, yeah, I'm kind of, I'm speaking about it to them as if I'm assuming they're going for everything, or nearly everything.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it makes sense. You're trying to, I mean, you say it even on your website, you're taking the hassle out of this whole thing. You're going to give them everything they're going to need for everyone in the family. "Just leave it to me. I'll look after you." That's the impression I'm getting.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: I love that. So do you ever have potential clients or people that you're talking to on the phone that say, "Look, we just want the digital files."

Helen Schryver: Occasionally, it's not usually at that point, I don't know if they're just being polite and going, "Oh yeah, all looks great." And then, you know, they see the pricing, obviously, before they book. And maybe they just see, "Okay, look, we can just get the full set of digital files do what we want with them. Let's do that." But they will usually let me know, because I give them kind of multiple opportunities to say that to me. It doesn't happen very often, but if they do, then I just say, "Okay, fine, and I'll do like an online gallery for them." If I really think they mean it, then I won't bother going back for a sales appointment. I'll put them online, check you on them, and done.

Andrew Hellmich: And that's with Pixieset or Shootproof or something.

Helen Schryver: Yeah. Pixieset, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, and I'm gathering from what you said earlier, that they're priced now at a point where, if they take just the digitals, it's still okay for you financially.

Helen Schryver: It is, yeah. So there are 800 for the full set. But as I say, like not many people go for that, most people are doing products as well, and at the end of the day, I save myself the journey back to them for the viewing appointment, the time spent doing all that. So, yeah, it's fine with me, when that does happen.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. And I know that you are about families and also kids. Are you doing everything you can to have both parents there at the session, or you don't care?

Helen Schryver: Yes, no, I'm saying like both parents have to be there, basically. But if they're really insistent, like, "Oh no, no, no, it's fine", I just kind of, I reiterate the fact again at every stage I possibly can that all decisions must be made at that appointment, and payment is made up that appointment as well. So there's no chance to kind of change their mindset afterwards. I learned that the hard way.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, and this is happening before the actual session is booked.

Helen Schryver: Yes, yeah. I don't really go into like, the fact that payment has to be made at the appointment before they've booked, but I tell them, "This is how it works. This is the process. You have a shoe. I go in, edit the photos, I come back and that's when you choose what you want to buy." That's kind of how I put it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so when I was talking about both parents, I meant at the actual shoot, like, you know, will you turn up and just photograph the kids, or the kids and mum or, and I'm generalizing here, or does dad have to be there as well?

Helen Schryver: Oh, I see no, there's always both parents there. But I don't actually get asked if they can do it without parents.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so that's always family photography for you.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, it is, yeah, even, like with newborns, it's always, always including the parents as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Okay.

Helen Schryver: Yeah, whole family.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, so you turn up and you might catch public transport by the sound of it, to the client's home. Spend an hour and a half to two hours with them. Is there much, you know, pre preparation going on? Or you walk in with a, you know, camera slung over your shoulder and ready to start shooting?

Helen Schryver: Pretty much that we usually have, like, a cup of tea or coffee and a bit of a chat, and I, I'll say to them, like, "I don't get my camera out straight away. I'll engage with the kids a little bit", depending on their ages. I'll ask them to show me their toys and that kind of stuff, and just build a bit of a rapport with the kids before we start and the parents. But yeah, usually, like, we've chatted before they book, and then usually we've chatted before the shoot as well. So we kind of we know each other a little bit already, which makes that that easier, for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: And are you looking around the home? Or is it the client taking around the home, you know, suggesting where these photos might be going, or is that all happening at their sales appointment?

Helen Schryver: In terms of, like, where on the walls, for example?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, if they're going to buy wall art, are you looking for, you know, potentially, what you're shooting for, where it might go in the home. Is that all happening at the session or at the sales appointment?

Helen Schryver: It happens a little bit during the shoot. Yeah. So I will ask while I'm there, if they have any idea what they might like to do with their photos. I check they've looked at the digital copy of the brochure that I've sent them, which has all my photos, all my products and the prices, of course, and then I take a physical, printed copy of the brochure with me to the shoot, and I'll get that out at the end. Say, "Look, I'm going to leave this with you so you can see a nice printed version." And we'll have a quick flick through together. And then if they, you know, if they come across a picture of a wall art and say, like, "Oh, that one looks good." And be like, "Yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful one. That's my favorite. Where do you think you might want to put something like that?" And then I'll take a photo on my phone of that wall space so that I can do a mock up for them in Fundy ahead of their viewing appointment, sales appointment.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it okay. So has anyone been surprised at the pricing at that stage of the sequence with the client?

 
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Andrew Hellmich: There's one more thing I do want to ask you about, but you have been amazing. I love what you've created for yourself, and I love the way things have changed so dramatically and so quickly, and the fact that you're based in the UK and sharing this is so good. Where's the best place for the listener to see more of your work and what you do.

Helen Schryver: So I'm most active social media wise on Instagram. So that's @schryverphoto, which is S-C-H-R-Y-V-E-R, photo, and then my website, I guess, which is schryverphoto.com.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. I'll add links to those and the other places that people can find you as well online. Helen, you've been amazing. I just want to ask you about the, on your website. It looks like you're traveling for shoots as well. Like, is this a new thing?

Helen Schryver: So I have one, one client who flies me all over the world, for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: Hang on. Let me just bring the listener into the picture here. So on your website down in the footer area, it says, "I travel for shoots. Get in touch for available days, upcoming locations included." It's got Dubai, Milan, Paris, and Lisbon throughout 2022, so are these trips that are 100% booked in and you're going or it depends if you get a session booked.

Helen Schryver: So some are, I'm there for other things. So I'm in Lisbon for my sister's hen do.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. I love it.

Helen Schryver: So, but, you know, someone happened to book a shoot. I'd just stay longer, right?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Helen Schryver: I do love traveling. I have one client who books me for two or three shoots per year. Like it could, literally could be anywhere. He travels for business a lot. He's a single dad, and his son will join him at various times during the year, and then I'll go out and do a shoot with them. So that's amazing. So I'm always looking like while I'm there, like, "Can I do another shoot with someone else?" And I also used to live in Spain. I was there for six and a half years. So I'll often go back to Spain and do shoots with friends of people I know, and that kind of stuff. I'll just advertise I'm going to be there and, yeah, see what I can get from it, really, any excuse for a paid holiday.

Andrew Hellmich: And do you take your daughter with you when you go to these places, like, with this gentleman that the single dad? Like, will you take your daughter to those places too?

Helen Schryver: She's never come on one of those trips, because they've always been in term time, which is very cross about, I hope that next time I'll be able to take her. I mean, he's always said, "Oh yeah, bring her along." You know, it's like he's really relaxed. So, yeah, I could definitely take her.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, what a client he must have, you got friends.

Helen Schryver: I don't know how to put more of those. If I did, then I'd be very happy.

Andrew Hellmich: Look, again, Helen, you've been amazing. If we were to chat in 12 month’s time, you know, where would you like your business to be?

Helen Schryver: Oh, I think I would like to be just more of the same, really, more shoots, more money and..

Andrew Hellmich: So not less shoots, more money?

Helen Schryver: Oh, that's good point. Possibly. I'm pretty happy with, with the amount of kind of shoots that I do at the moment, I probably like to have to do to be able to do less, giving the shoot for free and then hoping they spend at the end, kind of stuff.

Andrew Hellmich: So more of those organic bookings?

Helen Schryver: Yeah, exactly, organic. That's good word. Yeah, more organic bookings would be good just to take that pressure off a little bit. But I'm definitely getting there.

Andrew Hellmich: Love it. Again, you've been amazing Helen, thank you so much for coming on, for sharing everything you have. I've had a great time talking to you, and I love the fact you're having so much success. So thank you.

Helen Schryver: Thank you. It's been a pleasure.