427: Katrina Christ – How to have a more profitable family portrait photography business

427: Katrina Christ - How to have a more profitable family portrait photography business

 
Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest is a family photographer based in Brisbane, Australia. She's been shooting for more than 25 years. Has had $1 million turnover years, and she believes every photographer should be and deserves to make a great living from their work. She started out in photography by studying at college, and immediately after completing her studies, her photography business was born. She was also married at the same time, and started her family. It must have been a crazy period, and then in 2001 she made a big move to specialize in black and white family portraits, and business took off. Today, she says business is as good, strong and profitable as ever. And in addition to her photography, she's also the driving force behind the high end photography Academy. I'm talking about Katrina Christ, and I'm rapt to have her with us now, Katrina, welcome.

Katrina Christ: Thank you so much. I'm very, very excited to be here with you.

Andrew Hellmich: I can only see that you're smiling. I can hear it in your voice, and you market yourself as the happiest photographer in Brisbane. Is that right?

Katrina Christ: I do. I really do, because my nature has always been to be really happy, but I also know that high energy attracts beautiful clients. So if you're not, you can become that way as well. But no, I like to live a happy life.

Andrew Hellmich: Sounds so nice, and I said you had $1 million turnover years. So is that today, or is that in the past? Is it still doable today?

Katrina Christ: That was in the past. So I launched in 96 and I didn't earn any money or any profit in the in the first four years, I was having the best time loving that I finally found what I wanted to do, but making no money like everything, just paid the bills and probably only just. So I actually hired a coach, and my first million dollar turnover, I started with him, sorry, in 2001 and in 2009 I turned up my first million dollars.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. So back then was that a photography business coach or just a, like a, a generic business coach?

Katrina Christ: Well, no, he was photography business coach. But so weird, Andrew, because you know, when you just, I had hit rock bottom, and I was so, I was so sad, because I'd, I'd studied and I worked at a Kodak mini lab and put myself through uni because, you know, I was, I was 21, I wasn't going to ask my mum and dad to support me, and I knew that I wanted to be big, but I didn't know how. And then I was just chatting to a guy who supplied those black and white folders, you know, you put your photos in, and he just said, "Oh, yeah, I've got to make his photography coach." And that was as easy as it was. And I so, of course, didn't do any other research, and just got his number and called him, and that was the start of it, because I had nowhere to go but up. So I love how that universe works like that. It was perfect.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. So was it his idea then for you to go black and white and focus on families?

Katrina Christ: His idea for me was to specialize. And he said, "What do you do?" And I'm like, "Well, I do everything I do." You know, as a lot of photographers do, I was doing lots of hair competitions and weddings and a little bit of portrait. I did fashion model portfolios, and I I left uni thinking I wanted to be a fashion photographer, and I got, I got the highest scoring ever portfolio in fashion when I left Queensland College of Art, which is super cool. So I'm like, that is my destiny. But as it went on, I realized that I found that industry very fake and not me. And so when he said, "You really need to specialize in what do you love." And he said, "And don't pick an area that you think is going to make you money. You need to choose an area that you will love, because if you love it, the money will just come." And I remember sleeping overnight on this and I really mulled it over and went, you know, "I really, really love portraitures, because my families just think I'm amazing, and I love everything I do." And so it was actually quite a simple decision in the end. And then he said to me, "Now you need to create your own signature style where people will recognize it instantly as a Katrina Christ." and so I'm like, "Oh, I don't really have a style." And he was looking down my little front room of my house, and he said, "What is this here?" And I said, "Oh, that's my black and white work. I really love to shoot families like that." How funny is that? He went, "You already have a style. You've already got your signature style.", which I had. I tweaked and tweaked till I got it how I liked it. And so, how incredible is that? And so he just went, "Okay, stop doing anything else. Do not take on any other job, just focus on family photography."

Andrew Hellmich: And deliver only black and white images?

Katrina Christ: Only black and white. Because I would say, you know, everyone can buy white shirt, everyone can buy jeans, they will never date, and you can buy them 12 months of the year. So made them wear clothing that was very simple, and I would carry to the homes my background stands, my sheets, actually, no, I didn't do background stands then, I carry a sheet and have my cameras. And then I literally peg this sheet wherever I could, the highest point I could, and sometimes is in the front yard with the wheelie bins, which now I don't know how I got away with, but they were really good height, yeah. So I loved the idea of the simplicity of white against white, because I never wanted to be around props or clothing, because clothing was distracting. White chairs and jeans will never, ever date. So it became this beautiful, clean, classic look that I loved. Now, it couldn't have worked out better, because 25 years later, I still shoot that and it still doesn't date.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm looking at your Instagram feed right now. I'm seeing that exact style. So you're still shooting the same way. You know, like 10,11, 12 years later.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, well, yes, longer than that, actually. So isn't that funny, though? Because people can get beautiful wall pieces, and when they want to do the next family photos, they just add to their gallery.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good.

Katrina Christ: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. I love it. So business took off. And so when you were doing these million dollar years, surely this wasn't just you.

Katrina Christ: Oh, no, I had a team of eight. So we would have had, we had two retouches, we had two sales people, three photographers, and an admin person, and then I had a bookkeeper that came in every Saturday and managed everything, because none of us knew how to do that at that time, and I was super streamlined, and I also had big plans to franchise and license across America. So I created procedures for everything and everyone had to follow the procedures, which I found that they are loved anyway, because they didn't have to think about how it was to be done. Quite a fantastic team, and we worked really well. And I had a bonus system back then, Andrew, so the plan was 80 grand a month, is a million a year. So if we reach goal, everyone got bonuses as well. And it really pushed everybody. And it was a great team culture, because everyone got the same bonus, so no one second off, everyone pitched in, and it was pretty amazing system, actually.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, I love that. So obviously you weren't working at home then, either you had a studio.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, no, I had a, so when I worked with that coach within six months later, I moved out of home, because it took off that quickly. I think I put a casual on within two weeks of my very first shopping center promotion. And then three months after that, put in a second staff member. And six months after that, moved into commercial space. And then that was in Wool and Gabbert. And then two and a half years after that, I moved into an awesome corner studio in East Brisbane. Here 17,000 cars passed an hour, turned over an extra 100 grand a year just by being on a corner. And putting up three new massive posters in my windows every single week.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So to keep the interest up and people looking in the window.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, yeah, because it was no digital screens then, and people slowed down. It was a massive main road into the city, so I knew they'd be slowing down. And they, they loved looking at the photos. And I booked so much work out of that.

Andrew Hellmich: How did you convert the traffic to bookings? Like, did you have a massive phone number? Did you have an offer in the windows? Like, what do you think drove people to actually contact you?

Katrina Christ: Mainly just the photos we would put up. And again, another procedure for this, we would put up very strategic photos. So it either had to make you go, "Oh, that's so beautiful", or it had to make you giggle. So they were the two prerequisites for choosing photos. And we had a staff member every Monday. My retouch has come with three new photos and a whole bunch, and I would okay the best three to go in for the next week. And it was mainly photos. We did promotions every now and again, and they did work well, like maybe leading up to Mother's Day, Father's Day, but especially Christmas. But I had a kid in the front window, and it was pretty close up, and he shoved both his fingers up his nose. So it was hilarious. But people would call and go, "Oh my God, my kid does that all the time. I needed to come photograph him." So it was as simple as that. And I've had lots of feedback over the years too, Andrew, people going how much they loved driving to work wondering what was going to be up next week.

Andrew Hellmich: That is so cool. So you were still photographing in people's homes. They weren't coming to the studio.

Katrina Christ: No, no, no no. They've only just started coming to my studio in the last three years, since I've moved it all home. So no, we would take everything with us, and it was really about getting to someone's home, working out where the best light was, setting up there, setting the backdrop up. We did eventually move to stands, which was good, and then doing this beautiful combination, and then people then come into the studio a week later, and we would do design consultations. So we actually won ProSelect around the time we went digital. So when digital 2005 and we won, we won it in a hair of the dog seminar we went to. And so we went, "Oh, we were looking for something. Let's try this." So I've been using ProSelect for 15, 16 years.

Andrew Hellmich: Since it came out

Katrina Christ: And it's an amazing selling tool.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, wow. So you sort of alluded to the fact that you're working from home. Now, let's fast forward to today. Can you give us a snapshot of the business today?

Katrina Christ: Yeah, so I had, was it 2018 there was only four of us by that stage, and two of my staff fell pregnant at the same time. And you know how things work out, Andrew, like I had just decided, my husband had been saying to me for a while, bring it home and do it yourself. And I didn't think I could, because I'd had a big studio on staff for 17 years. But when that happened, I went, "Okay, I was worrying about them, but they're not going to stay anyway. So okay, I feel better about that. Now, I will move it home." So I've moved it all home, and my retoucher came with me for the first six months at home, but I put her on contract. Once I moved out of the studio, I went, you know what? I'm not doing wages anymore, so we negotiated a new contract together, and she is still with me, but she's been able to work from home, and she's now just had a second child. So we were beautifully set up for COVID by the way. Everything was online, so it was a lot of stress taken off from me at that stage, but I reckon it took a first year to just rejig everything. I started having people come to my home because I was sick of driving, because I know that we don't have bad traffic here compared to maybe Sydney or Melbourne, but traffic had really gotten worse. Petrol gone up. I never charged for travel, and just before I moved it all home, I remember one day spending four hours in the car, driving between shoots and thinking, that's four hours. I can't do any other work. Call my girlfriends, call my mum. That was always lovely. But you know what I mean? It's half your day gone. And I think I'd done it for so long, I just went, I don't want to do it anymore. And I had that real "Wouldn't it be great if I could do that. And wouldn't it be good if people could just come to me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." So I just went, "Okay, well, I just really need to set it up how I want to, and times have changed." So I actually was setting up at the back. I've got this area at the back, but really dependent on the light, so hit and miss sometimes. I mean, I made it work. It was fine, but I have a carport at the front of my home. And one day, this family with a baby booked a shoot. And do you know the Queensland storms we get Andrew?

Andrew Hellmich: Yes.

Katrina Christ: Okay, so this storm was coming, and I rang them and I said, "Do you guys want to reschedule because this is coming?" And they went, "Nope. This is the only time we've got, I don't want."

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So for the listener who isn't sure, carport is like a garage, but without any sides or no front, no back, it's just a roof.

Katrina Christ: No back or front, exactly, just a roof. Sorry, I didn't think of that. And anyway, so yeah, so I jump up on a ladder. I'm Bulldog clipping my big white sheet up, and I've pulled this thing taut. And I'm like, "Okay, this is even better my stands", because the stands would always drape a little bit. So I'm like, "Oh, that looks pretty good." But we know that, you know, the lights dropping rain, they come and I'm doing the mom's makeup, because I've always done that. And we come out, we start shooting, and I'm looking at the back of my camera going, "Holy Moly, that lighting is amazing, and my background is fantastic." Whereas normally the background would always look a bit muddy, and that was a lot of the retouching work getting a beautiful, clean background. So after that, I actually paid quite a bit of money to get in built backdrops, so I just literally wind them all down how I want them. It's been amazing, and I'm thinking now I've got the best light ever in the world, and I was going to people's homes for years and years.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. So your natural light studio is a carport.

Katrina Christ: Uh huh.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. That's so Aussie.

Katrina Christ: But you should see me cleaning Andrew before they come. I'm like, invested in a blower.

Andrew Hellmich: A leaf blower.

Katrina Christ: Oh, best money I've ever spent.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, I hate those things.

Katrina Christ: Oh, but, you know what? I move the cars out, and we put everything down every you know, and I've got vinyl flooring, you know, white vinyl flooring instead of sheets now, but I blow everything out. So it all looks beautiful. I've got these gorgeous, big fake flowers at the front of my home and which I'll never be able to kill. And so it all looks lovely when they arrive. And I just try and pretty it up so it doesn't look so much like a carport. But no one really cares, because they're there because they want you to photograph their family, and they just want you.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, well, tell me then, and the listener about the revenue today, because I'm guessing it's not a million dollars, if it's down to you and your retoucher.

Katrina Christ: Yeah. So I'm turning over 250 a year.

Andrew Hellmich: Great.

Katrina Christ: And I don't really do much marketing, so I'm, I mean, that sounds so spoilt now, but my plan was always that anyway, to always really push previous and referrals. But you know, there were, I think when the GFC hit, we really had to start marketing again. Now, I don't want to work that hard, so I just wait for the phone to ring, and people ring and say, "Katrina, I want another shoot with you." And they know my pricing. They don't even bother looking at the website. So it's super simple and beautiful, and I've got the most gorgeous clients who just really love and value me, and so it's wonderful. So last month I did, what did I do? I did three shoots last month.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. But surely you must be doing more than that throughout the year, unless the spend is huge. Because how do you get the 250k?

Katrina Christ: Well, my sales are really good. And I don't mean that in and up myself way. I'm just really good at sales. So my last sale was pretty awesome. These guys spent 10 and a half grand in June and came back last Thursday night and spent another 10.

Andrew Hellmich: What from the same shoot or a new session?

Katrina Christ: No, no. Same shoot.

Andrew Hellmich: Really?

Katrina Christ: Same shoot. And the sales before that, and I only know the way I can quote this because I was actually putting it in my other group. The three sales before that were ten, nine, and seven.

Andrew Hellmich: From the same family or different families?

Katrina Christ: Oh, those are different families. Yeah. But my sales, if you average it out, my sales about five grand. So I'm, you know, bit disappointed if I get anything less than that these days. But yeah, no, it's a beautiful business. I don't need to work my guts out to achieve that. And I'm really proud of the fact that I'm still being able to give work to my retoucher. So when she had maternity leave, I found another retoucher. So I've got two now, which is wonderful, because we, you know, need a backup, and sometimes I'm giving them so much work that they can't manage it all alone. So, you know, getting that, but other than that, yeah, yeah, my costs. Oh, my God. When I moved home and I didn't have the rent and, you know, all those overheads, I was literally doing a little happy dance every Friday. That's great.

Andrew Hellmich: This is so cool. So if your average is $5,000 you only need 50 families a year to reach your target, or what you're turning over 250 which is one family a week.

Katrina Christ: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, right.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. And you're working from home in a carport, and you know, that's so amazing.

Katrina Christ: Sounds funny.

Andrew Hellmich: It does, but this is what's so good about your story. And I'm on your website now, so you clearly have your pricing on here. So like, your classic digital package is, you know, 1900

Katrina Christ: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And then, you know, 2700 for the premium digital package.

Katrina Christ: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And then you go to three and a half. So how do people get to say $10,000 or even $5,000 from there? Are they adding extra things?

Katrina Christ: Oh, yeah, good question. They don't buy files off me. They buy finished artwork.

Andrew Hellmich: So these prices on here are for digital files. Are they?

Katrina Christ: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Only

Katrina Christ: Only. So about three and a half years ago, such a push to do digital files. And I'm like, "We know that's okay, but if you want a digital file, you're going to pay me for it, because I'm not discounting that. Because if I'm selling an eight by 12 for 195, you're not going to get the digital file off me for 50, so my digital files at the classic price are about 177." Because we know they can take it and put it somewhere else that's pretty cheap. You know, the cost is not in the printing. The cost is in your skill. So I put that on there, mainly for new customers who didn't know me and I would rarely sell them, because my customers want me to finish it beautifully for them. They want to hang it on their walls. In saying that, I have done a 10 grand digital sale where people went, "We'll buy the pack of 20", which was three and a half four grand. And then the dad looked at me, and he said, "How much for the whole shoot?" And I went, "Well, do you know there's, there's some double ups here. Should we, you know, work on culling it down." He just looked at me, good. "No, no, the whole shoot. How much?" So I worked out a proof price. He said, "These are amazing. You don't need to touch them." So when, "Okay", so. And here's a great thing about testing things, because, you know, I didn't really know how much they were going to spend, but I'm like, "Okay, well, I've already done more proofing. I've done all the work, and I can't remember what the proof price was now, might have only been, even been 66, so everything else was retouched beautifully.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Katrina Christ: And anyway, so at the end of the day, it was a 10 grand sale because I sent it to him, and he goes, "Yeah, that's awesome. We'll transfer you now."

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, so good.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, but Andrew, the thing is, the photos are beautiful. Don't get me wrong, like I'm really proud of my work, but if people love you, you will get great sales.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Do you think the experience the family has is more important than the photos?

Katrina Christ: It's such a massive part of it, like when you're first speaking to them, you've really got to connect, and you've got to connect really, in about three seconds, they need to know that you really care about them and you're interested in them, and they can trust you. And then that really gets followed up at the photo shoot, where we are not just photographers, we are massive entertainers. We're getting the absolute best out of people. So you have to be able to bring the best out of people. So if that whole experience is amazing, and then my design consultations back in the studio are normally done within that week, because they're still highly excited.

Andrew Hellmich: So, so your design consultation is your sales session after the shoot?

Katrina Christ: Yes, yes. So back in the studio, yeah. So when they're coming back in, you know, there's, there's coffee for them. And you know, we, I do it in my, in fact, the bottom. I've got a two story house. I couldn't have designed it better, not really knowing I was ever bringing it home. But the whole bottom of my house is living. The whole top is bedroom, so that can look like a bomb site. No one's ever going to see it. But the bottom is beautiful. And actually, my home is way nicer than my studio was. So people always love coming in, and it's beautiful and light, and I often have candles on or, you know, but the coffee machines on, and then that whole process, then of going through photos and really learning to talk emotionally about photos and why, why, or how precious this is going to be in years to come, that whole process, and I find Andrew when I'm in that design consultation, for me, it's all about, you know, you're really listening to what they want. Then you're, you know, once you've done that culling, you've got their favorites, then I'm putting designs together really quickly in front of them. But I find that whatever I put in front of them, they go, "Love it. Lock that in. Done." because people coming to us, because we're the experts. So if I say, "This is amazing, and that'll be a beautiful landscape shaped one for your wall above your couch", they pretty much do everything I say, which is lovely, but I absolutely have their best interests at heart, so I'm just listening to what they want, and I'm really feeding off them, and I'm just going to continue designing until I am picking up that you're done.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Well, okay, let me dissect your sales process in just a second, because I really want to go deep into that. I just want to ask you a couple of questions about your price list. About your price list. So with all of your packages, you include makeup for mum. So is that you doing that, or you bring a makeup artist in?

Katrina Christ: No, that's me.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're a trained makeup artist.

Katrina Christ: No, not really, not really. Don't tell anyone. Now, I did a really basic course years ago, and this makeup artist said "You can do this makeup for everybody, and it always looks great."

Andrew Hellmich: Get out. Not the same colors.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, because I'm black and white.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're just looking for shades.

Katrina Christ: No, it doesn't matter. But I just do, I do lots of like, browns and oranges, because it's all natural. And the idea is that it is not glam. It's not makeup today. It's a very beautiful, natural look. So that when a mum's having her photos done, she goes, "Oh, I look nice." Not "Oh, God, I should have put some makeup on." So it's a little pamper, so when everyone comes in, I do the makeup first. Sometimes that gives an opportunity for kids to check you out if they're a little bit shy. And I'm literally 15 minutes. I'm done in 15 minutes, because I'd never know what window of opportunity I've got with kids. So I'm pretty fast. Everything's set up, ready to go, and I keep things rolling pretty quickly the entire way, and I'm making it fun. I've got the music on so that whole process is heaps of fun, and they actually never really want to finish.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so I understand it, because I'm not a woman. I don't wear makeup, but I imagine some women would prefer to do their own makeup, or do you have them come with no makeup whatsoever and you're applying all the makeup?

Katrina Christ: Some people go, "Oh, listen, I'll do my makeup because I do it all the time", and you go, "Absolutely, no problem." And they probably do it a lot heavier than I do, but I did this. Oh, this is hilarious. It's funny how you remember stories. Years ago, I driven all the way to Redcliffe, and I got there and I'd forgotten my makeup back, I said to this woman, "I'm so sorry." And she said, "Well, I've got some makeup here, but it's really old. I don't think I've used it in 10 years." Alrighty, so I just played with what she had. Hilarious, blue eyeshadow was the only eyeshadow she had. And I'm like, that's black and white. They'll be gone. So I did a makeup. And she's like, "No", I said, "No, trust me, it'll, yep."

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay, so you're applying the makeup 99% of the time, unless someone really wants to do it themselves.

Katrina Christ: I reckon nowadays, because makeup such a big thing, I think maybe only 60% of the time. But the people I do it for, they love it. They just feel really pampered. And I think that's pretty special for mums.

Andrew Hellmich: I like that. So where are the kids? Are they just running right in the carport? Are they in the house? Have they got toys?

Katrina Christ: Inside, inside. So in the TV room where I do the design consultations, I've got a play area. I've got a little corner that kids can pull out stuff and play with and make as much mess as you like. I don't care. Dad is normally there keeping them busy, and then I'm going to be finishing five minutes. So, "Dad, you want to start dressing kids so super, super quick, because I don't want them to get tired."

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Got it.

Katrina Christ: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And then during the session, I imagine, because you've been shooting for so long, and I think I got to this stage as well, where I had the shots in my head that I wanted to get, that I knew that we're going to sell. Are you going through a process like, with every session, you know, you make sure you get the whole family together, mum with the kid, dad with the kids, Mum and Dad together, that sort of thing?

Katrina Christ: Yeah, I think, because if I don't do it in a certain way, I would hate to forget something. So I'm very much family, but I'll do like, four or five combinations of the family, because I love that.

Andrew Hellmich: So when you say combinations of different poses, move them around?

Katrina Christ: Yes, exactly. Then I would do mum with the kids, dad with the kids. But now, what I also do every shoot, which I never used to do years ago, I would do mum with each of her children, and dad with each of the kids, as well as them, with all of them. And then I do kids together, kids separately, and mum and dad at the end, and if they bought pets with them, we do that as well, but I always do quite a few different poses within each combination, because they might love it all, Andrew and buy it all.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, absolutely. So you're going through the process and getting all the images you want, at this point, have you talked about with the client their home, what they're looking for, or they're just coming in for a shoot and they're going to be in your hands?

Katrina Christ: At the booking stage, they might just go, "You know, we want wall pieces." And if they've been to me before, we already know.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. Let's say a new client. Let's say a new client.

Katrina Christ: Okay, new client. So at the shoot, we're talking about money. Do you want wall? Do you want digital? If they want digital, then they're looking at the packages on the website and making sure they're cool with that before we go ahead.

Andrew Hellmich: Sorry, Katrina, you said at the shoot, but this is prior to the shoot.

Katrina Christ: Oh, sorry, at the call. Sorry, when we're talking on the phone, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it.

Katrina Christ: Yeah. So at that stage, I'm making sure they understand all the pricing.

Andrew Hellmich: So how do you do that? Do you go to the website with them? Or are you just going through it?

Katrina Christ: If they want digital files, then we'll go to the website together, in case they haven't looked so they can see them. Now I am crystal clear on my website, because I don't want calls with the same question all the time. So you'll notice in those three collections, I've tried to answer every possible query you might have, so that you understand exactly what you're getting. And you know what, customers don't like nasty surprises, and they like to know upfront what they're up for, not approximately, or about or they want to know. So I was just saying in my group the other day, couple of months ago, I went, "You know what my business is pretty freaking awesome. Right now, I'm going to buy a new car." So I jumped on the Land Rover website because I'm like, I'm gonna look at those Range Rovers. They look amazing. So I get on there and there's not one price. So I don't know if I'm in the running. I don't know if I can even afford this or not, or maybe I can, so I end up having to drive in to chat with them, and then you were the car salesman. And don't get me wrong, they were actually great. But he goes, "Oh yes, that one there, that's top of the range. That's 450,000." I'm going not to laugh going, "Oh yeah, that's probably out of my price range today." But I I had to go through the process of actually going in to talk to someone to find out what they charge. Whereas people don't want that anymore. They want to go to the website, or they want a phone call with you, and they want you to be really upfront about your pricing and everything that's included, they don't really want to know that after, so that's with the digital collections, but with my wall pieces, it's very hard to quote, because I don't know what people are going to buy until they come in and I'm designing with them. So, but if they're previous, they know they're going to spend more than probably what they spent last time. So, but with new clients is definitely harder. So you know, sometimes might say "People spend on average three grand." You know, you try and bring it down a little bit more, but no one really asked me that question, is that interest after all this time. So when you're doing wall, they probably don't know what they're spending until they're here with me.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So even though the prices are clear on your website, they don't know what they necessarily might end up with and what they might spend.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, because do you know Andrew, people don't know the possibilities unless we photographers tell them.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. You know, just with that car salesman, as annoying or frustrating as that was, I still really like what he did by showing you the top of the range straight away and saying, This was, you know, was you know, was it 400 and something thousand? Because he didn't make the assumption that you couldn't afford that car. Did he?

Katrina Christ: Yeah, no, he didn't.

Andrew Hellmich: Which is what a lot of photographers do. We make an assumption about a client, but we don't really know what they're willing to spend.

Katrina Christ: Absolutely and do you know some of the wealthiest clients I've ever had are not necessarily my best spenders.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Katrina Christ: It's people who value photography, who appreciate and value and, you know, I can give everyone the best time, but I remember years ago being blown away by someone who questioned me in my pricing. And I'm like, "You've got franchises around the world. You can afford me." But he was, he just dug his heels in, and I went, "Yeah, you don't value me. And so that's okay", because it, yeah, but that would be very rare for me to be in that situation. But yeah, I know what you mean. Like, I think you should never, ever make an assumption on what people will and won't spend with you, because, you know, don't base it on the car they're driving when they come in, either.

Andrew Hellmich: No, no. And so that particular client you're referring to with who owns the franchises, you were having that conversation before the actual session. Is that right? Or is that at the?

Katrina Christ: So this would have been like, over 12 years ago, so I can't really remember, we would have just discussed prices. But Andrew, he wanted everything, and he wanted an album of this, and he wanted this and this and this. And when the quote came to 30,000 he, um, said, "We'll be in contact." And then we heard from his PA.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes you do.

Katrina Christ: But you know, he was trying to be such a bully. And I thought, I don't do everything inhouse. I, you know, I have retouchers, but we outsource everything, and so I've got to cover all my costs and make some profit.

Andrew Hellmich: So what happens today, Katrina? Let's say someone calls they're interested in having you photograph their family, and you could be speaking to the husband, and you get the feeling that he's just not into this photography, like you would hope he would be, and he just doesn't want to pay your prices. So he's trying to bargain with you off the bat, or it could even be at the sales session, they're trying to bargain with you and get more thrown in. How do you handle that today with your experience?

Katrina Christ: I don't get a lot of that, when I do get it though, when people want to discount, I just say "I don't discount, but I do, do surprise gifts." So do you want to just leave that with me?

Andrew Hellmich: At the price that it is.

Katrina Christ: I'm not discounting.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Katrina Christ: I won't discount, but I always do extra gifts, and that's there's your over deliver. So I get around it by saying, "Listen, I don't discount, but I actually have got some ideas for you, some surprise gifts that now you know you'll be getting, but it'll be a surprise." And I'm probably very good at the way I say it.

Andrew Hellmich: I like that.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, it kind of diffuses them then, because they've not got much of a comeback.

Andrew Hellmich: That's nice. So you're basically telling there's no way you're discounting, but there's still going to be something nice. And you're still sweetening the put down by saying you're not getting any money off.

Katrina Christ: Oh, do you? And this is the thing about, when I see photographers discounting, I think, "Oh, but you've just given them money off, whereas you could have given them a print that's valued at $200, it's only going to cost you a couple of dollars." So it just is. But this is photographers who don't know. This is that thing, we you know, we're trying to help other photographers. Is all the experience that we have. You go, "Yeah, don't do it that way. Do it this way." And I'm probably, I think in my early days, I would have definitely found that hard to deal with, but you just become better and better at dealing with personality types too, Andrew. So I've got, one of the back of my studio doors was the four different personality types, what they were like, and then how to sell to them. And so I remember, and I probably do it naturally, but when I was training my sales people, they were in the design room, and they'd come out and they go to the back of the door, and I'd say to them, "Do you need a hand?" And they go, "No, no, I'm just checking what his personality is." And I go, "Okay, right." And they'd go back in.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good.

Katrina Christ: It's true, though, isn't it? Like working out who, and I find that I don't really have an issue with people trying to bother me so much because they've been at the shoot. They know it's amazing. They know their photos are going to be beautiful, and most couples will come together to the design because they're so excited. They both want to be there. But if it's just mum, that's comes, we're pretty clear. She's the decision maker.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So when do you get that clarity? When does that happen that you know that she is the decision maker and she can spend $5,000?

Katrina Christ: Yeah, well, I would, at the end of the shoot, when I'm booking them in for the design I will say to them, "Now you both coming to the design consultation?", and they might go, "Yes", but if they don't, and he goes, "Oh, babes, you're going to make the decision anyway. You'll be fine. Go for it." That's as simple as that is, because we're talking together. We know that most women make the decisions.

Andrew Hellmich: Anyway. That's right.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, but he's there going, "No, we know that you're going to choose what you want, and I've got work so", or whatever he's got on. So it's all good. And a lot of my clients have their own businesses. So yes, that's probably not, not really a problem for me.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Let me take you into the sales room, so it could be mum and dad that turn up. And first of all, do you stipulate that you prefer them not to bring their kids if they're coming together for a sales consult?

Katrina Christ: I'll suggest they don't, because it's much easier to make a decision not stressing about children. But I'll say, "Listen, if you have to, absolutely bring them. And, you know, I've got a little play corner." Most of those parents, Andrew, will bring a iPad. You know what I mean?

Andrew Hellmich: Yep, yep, sure, something to occupy the kids.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, yeah. And food. They'll always bring food, although I did have a shoot one day. Beautiful woman I've been photographing for years, who, I think she bought some food. But, you know, little kids get really hungry, so I set them up at the kitchen bench. I'm like, "Why do you need something to eat?" And I open my cup, and they're like, "I want that". I'm like, I don't know what she means. And Melanie goes, "She wants your cashew nuts." I'm like, "Right." I don't care about stuff like that. Yeah, eat everything I've got on it. I don't mind. Yeah, you're in my home and but whether it's your home studio or commercial studio, you treat everyone like they're a beautiful friend. And so if someone walked in your home, you would offer them everything. And so that's what I do with all my clients.

Andrew Hellmich: So good, so good. Yeah, let me take a guess on what happens at the sales session. You correct me where I go wrong here. So you welcome the family back. They take a seat in the on a comfortable chair or lounge, and you play a slide show using ProSelect, showing all the images. And you go through after the slide show one by one, and they say, yes, no, maybe. And then you start working with that yes pile to start designing wall art, is that pretty much how it runs?

Katrina Christ: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Okay.

Katrina Christ: And I always leave too many, and I'm hopeless, but I'll tell them, and I'll try and edit down to 80, but I'm, shocking. I'm always over 100 but I also know that they're probably buy a lot, so I'm all right about that. So that first cull, and I don't do one at a time, like if I've got four that are similar, I'll put four up together so they can compare. I find that is the best way to do that. That culling process.

Andrew Hellmich: Are you showing me the projector on a screen? What are you doing?

Katrina Christ: Well, in the studio, I had a big projector, but at home, I've got a really big Smart TV that's curved, so the laptop is all connected, and we just go through the TV.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice, like a 70 inch or something.

Katrina Christ: I think it's bigger than that.

Andrew Hellmich: Massive, nice.

Katrina Christ: And it's really big.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, and then let's say you culled it down to, I don't know, 40. Would that be a normal number?

Katrina Christ: Yeah. Let's go 40, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And then do you then start having a conversation about the house and their house and where they might display these prints before you start designing? Or do you just start throwing designs up?

Katrina Christ: No, no, I might say to them, "Okay, if we're looking at wall pieces, where would you like to hang this?" Now I've already asked them, sorry. I forgot to tell you this. I'd ask them before they come to take photos of the walls they might like to hang work on. So I get an idea of, "Okay, well, that will, a square piece will fit there". Or if they've got very, not very wide walls, you put a beautiful vertical one down and then lots of gorgeous landscape works, is normally what I would do. So it's about, okay, well, let's design something for that wall, and then I will based on their favorite photos that I think they like. I will start, "I'll bring up designs, and I'll start dragging and dropping photos in." And Andrew, I'm very quick at this because I have been doing it so long. So I think if you're, if you're using ProSelect, you have to get really proficient at it, because people don't want to sit waiting for you. Really got to be fast and give them lots of options. But because I'm listening the whole time through, I'm like, I already know which ones I think is going to work. And if their favorite family shot is like a pano, then I've got designs where the focus is a panoramic one.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it, got it. So nothing's pre designed with that client's work in ProSelect, but you had pre-designed templates ready to drag and drop.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, I've got a million of them.

Andrew Hellmich: So okay, let's say I want something from above my lounge in my lounge room. Yes, you design a nice design for me with a variety of prints, and it looks fantastic. Do you then tell me the price for that one, or do we just move on to the next one?

Katrina Christ: No, because I don't, anyone saying you don't really know what people are going to spend. So they go, "Katrina, I love it. Yes, definitely do that." Okay, so then I'm going into my little shopping trolley. I put it straight in there. It's a framed series. I go into that one, the price already in there, because it's all done, and say "One of my biggest sellers is 2,845. I then go and manually add in, or, you know, the drop downs for which frame it is, how big the maps going to be and lock it in.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And I would see that price, wouldn't I?

Katrina Christ: Yes. So this is the thing, they see the price. I know they're looking at a price. I don't even need to say the price. This is why this sales program is so good. So I'm kind of looking at them going, yeah, they're cool with that. Okay, let's keep going. So I just go back, and then we start designing the next thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so if you get some kind of objection there, like, let's say it's 2,845, I think you said, and they're like, the dad is like, "Oh, that's, that's a bit more than I expected." Like, how do you answer that?

 
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Andrew Hellmich: Katrina, this has been amazing. I'm so glad we've had a chance to do this. So the best place for people to see your work, I'm guessing that's your website or your Facebook page.

Katrina Christ: Yeah, I do well, either it's katrinachristphotographer.com.au, and it's actually Katrina Christ Photographer Brisbane, on the Facebook page. And the answer probably is good, Andrew, because actually you can scroll through, can't you, and see an overview, which is great about Instagram.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. So what I'll do is I'll add links to all those URLs in the show notes, including the High End Photography Academy, so people can learn more about you. And I'll make sure you get added to the members Facebook group so we can follow up with you there and learn more. Katrina, this has been amazing. Thank you so much.

Katrina Christ: Well, thank you for having me. I was very excited that I really appreciate it.