543: Lei Lei Clavey – How to go from zero to hero in the world of high-end luxury weddings

543: Lei Lei Clavey – How to go from zero to hero in the world of high-end luxury weddings

 
Andrew Hellmich: I had some inside info on today's guest before reaching out and inviting her on for an interview. I hope I have the facts laid out correctly. She's a Melbourne based wedding photographer who entered the market in a different way to most photographers. She launched right into the luxury market. Invested heavily in her own branding and amazing styled shoots before booking any "real couples." And I'm saying that in air quotes. In no time at all, she had made a name for herself as the luxury editorial wedding photographer, and only books up to 20 weddings each year. If you take one look at her website or her socials, it screams luxury, and it sits perfectly amongst the world famous fashion labels like Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, Gucci and Dior. And if you have a look on her Instagram bio, she states that you can inquire about European wedding dates in 2025 and yes, she's fully booked already for 2024. I'm talking about the super talented Lei Lei Clavey and I am rapt to have her with us now. Lei Lei, welcome.

Lei Lei Clavey: Thank you. Wow. What an intro.

Andrew Hellmich: Was I on the mark with everything I said there?

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah, I guess it sounds, if you had said, 'Write your own intro.' I wouldn't have written that, because it sounds so I'm like, "Who are you talking about? She sounds amazing." But I guess that's how I launched my brand was with all those things in mind, so now that they're coming to light and actually becoming a reality, yeah, I guess everything, everything you did say, is true.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal, amazing. Look, I want to delve into how you got to where you are today, but what I'd really love first is to hear about where you are right now. Like, what are couples paying for a wedding these days with you?

Lei Lei Clavey: So I think I've been able to shoot up quickly because I'm not afraid to test my pricing a lot. So basically, I get the confidence from one couple that they are willing to pay, you know, $5,000 which is what I start. Well, my first wedding that I had quoted was six and a half thousand. It had everything in it, album, second shooter, 10 hours. It was the full shebang. So actually not, profit-wise wasn't great, but just being able to go, "Oh, my God, someone booked me for six and a half thousand". Before that, I had shot a wedding at the registry office for $350 for three hours so, and back then, I was like, "Oh my gosh, someone's paying me $350 to shoot like fashion and beautiful emotion." And it was so, so special. So now, as I guess, add some zeros to the end of the price, every time I'm like, "Oh my gosh, someone is willing to invest in me like that.", just feels, feels amazing, and yeah, gives me confidence. So now what people are paying my Santorini wedding that I have now booked for 2025 is 18,000.

Andrew Hellmich:
Amazing

Lei Lei Clavey:
That includes travel. So whether that works out to be actually worth it, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Worth it in terms of how much profit am I actually getting from that, because of all the time it takes for travel, you know, is it going to be $10,000 to actually get over there? And then how much profit do I make actually shooting. Yes, it's going to be an amazing time. And the couple are amazing, and that's what I am constantly figuring out. It's not very strategic, I guess how, it's strategic in the way of me increasing prices. I have Excel spreadsheets, but it's not really like when I get to this many inquiries and they book these prices, therefore I'll put them up. It's I go with my gut.

Andrew Hellmich:
So give us a little bit of an idea about how you come to $18,000 for that wedding. Do you say, "Okay, business class seats are going to be $10,000 or I'm going to fly economy and save a bit there and have that as profit." Do they need to book for two days before, two days after, and car hire, and accommodation? Or just give us a bit of an idea of how you come to 18,000.

Lei Lei Clavey: So first of all, what my current prices here are for 2025, it starts at 12 nine. So I started that for 10 hours, just coverage. And this is where going into the luxury market. What I started doing beforehand, the luxury market, high end market don't really want. So it was all I added, was adding everything, a welcome package, which was like a little planner. I had prints, which I still do include, but it's all those things. There's actually less is more for the luxury market. And so now I've just put it down to if they want those extra things, not a welcome package, but if they would like, you know, the second photographer, the album, it's not all included in the package, it is you're paying for my creative fees. And then on top of that, it'll add on. So then I asked around, because I haven't done a destination wedding yet. So this is my first, and I'm very excited. So I asked around friends, how much is it to fly to Greece? How much is accommodation? I did the little Google search, and this is right now, it's really hard to quote, because in 2025 which is actually quite far away, and what I'm finding, I'm jumping around, sorry, but what I'm finding is that the couples that I'm shooting their weddings now, I'm almost, I'm like a couple of thousand more expensive, if not double, more expensive than what I quoted them, because me moving up into the more luxury space.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So your prices have increased so much, they're getting absolute bargain now.

Lei Lei Clavey: Exactly, exactly. So when it comes to Greece, I will have to figure out 2025 you know, will I be charging 40,000 for weddings then? And so 18,000 is an absolute steal, because I probably, profit wise, might get 4000.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Lei Lei Clavey: You know?

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, yeah. So, I mean, looking at what you've just said, if 13k is for a Melbourne based wedding, so you know, you go for the day, you come home, the next day you wake up in your own bed, which is amazing. So why do you say yes to a wedding in Santorini for not a lot more? I mean, when it comes down to it, there's probably gonna be less profit.

Lei Lei Clavey: Exactly

Andrew Hellmich: So why do you say yes to that?

Lei Lei Clavey: First one, it's an amazing couple portfolio experience. And it's those risks that I've had to really learn and take from or not risks, but like, I'm going to trial this, see if I like it. Was it profitable? What, did I even enjoy it? And yeah, thinking about that price, to me, I was scared to give it to them, but it's actually, yeah, I guess a pretty good deal.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I think so. It looks like it.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah. But if I, if I had said, you know, it's going to be 25,000, like, would they actually, they'd probably be like, 'nah', you know, or maybe not. So it's those little things that I'm like, "Okay, Test it. Will someone book that price because they see the value?" Okay, they did. Okay. I might, you know, go a little bit higher next time. And then actually get down to the nitty gritty. Was it actually worth it in terms of monetary value?

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. So this couple of the Santorini wedding, are they Aussies? Are they Greek?

Lei Lei Clavey: They are Aussies. They booked me for an engagement session. And I don't do any engagement sessions during wedding season because it just gets too busy. But this one that they were willing to pay, I think I put my engagement sessions up to three and a half thousand for one and a half hours, for two hours, and they were willing to pay that. So it's like, 'Okay, I can give up, you know, my afternoon on a Monday. That's fine.' And then we got along so well. And then they just loved their photos and loved the experience. And they're like, we'd like to book you for Santorini. So that's a good tactic. If anyone wants to, get them on the earlier side for the engagement session, then hopefully they can book you for a wedding later.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. So good. So I said in the intro that you book up to 20 weddings, and I think you indicated that was correct. So do you have a target revenue number that you're chasing for the year?

Lei Lei Clavey: So when I started, my target revenue was 100,000 and then it slowly increased. It slowly increased. But my weddings, I have hoped to drop the number. So my first wedding season, I shot 24. The second wedding season, 36. The third wedding season, 36 which was just the one being and then this one, I booked 16 weddings. First year, I made $9,000, it was COVID. I was so stoked with that I could make $9,000 doing my own thing. This is amazing. Second season, I made 77,000. Third season, I made 275,000 and then this year, I think I've made 225.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So that's gross, isn't it? That's not net.

Lei Lei Clavey: It's gross, yes. And so this is where I need to work on, "Okay, how much profit do I actually", because I invest, I guess I'm still in the starting stages of the business where I just pretty much invest everything that I make. So then I'm like, "Wait a minute. Okay, I also would like to buy a house, and how much money do does the family need? And what is our thrive amount that we would love to have to create the lifestyle that we would like? So that's what I'm working on at the moment, to figure out how many in terms of creating a harmonious lifestyle. The number of weddings that I'd love to shoot is not 36, it's probably 10. So me shooting 16, but still making a similar amount to what I did last year shooting 36, like things are getting better.

Andrew Hellmich: That's a nice way to be doing business, yeah.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Let me take you back to the beginning. You know, when I introduced you there, I said, you know, you broke into the market in a different way. Again, if I was correct in saying that you invested heavily in your brand and your branding, you work with couples to create these styled shoots. That sounds very strategic. Where did you get the idea to do that?

Lei Lei Clavey: It comes from my background in, I've always done photography, but not always professionally. I have a background in marketing, social media, digital marketing, a little bit of PR and fashion. So I've always just known about brand and good brands, but it has taken time to learn that. And so starting my business, I already had this background of, I know what makes a solid brand and what makes a solid high end or luxury brand, and that's what I want to create.

Andrew Hellmich: So what is that? What does it take to be that high end luxury brand?

Lei Lei Clavey: Desirability, social credit, or that the social standing of like testimonials, other people will love to share that they are also using that brand or wearing that brand, also brand alignment with only certain other vendors or companies or brands that are in the same aesthetic and the same pricing zone. So this is where I really needed to introduce myself to these different vendors, planners, stylists, wedding venues, and say "I've come from nowhere, like I'm new, but here's what, here is my work." And so that's how I could show with my styled shoots, that this is the quality of my work. Here are some brands that I have worked with on this shoot and who align with my values, and so I've just really tried to stick to that.

Andrew Hellmich: So you basically you formulated this plan so you knew what you had to do with your previous experience. Talk me through the process of setting up that styled shoot. Did you hire models? Did you hire a makeup artist and hairdresser? Did you do a trade for prints or trade for files?

Lei Lei Clavey: So I had worked previously, shot backstage for a fashion designer who's based in Adelaide, Paolo Sebastian. I actually the way I got in backstage was I had my camera and I said, you know, "Is there any way to get backstage to shoot some behind the scenes?" And they're like, "No, because we already have a credit to photographers here." I said, "Give me five minutes and then you can throw me out." They said, "Okay, fine, just come in, but you have to leave before the show starts." So I got in, shot for five minutes, looked around, no one was there going "Okay, lay time to leave now." So I just stayed the whole show. Then I stayed the next show. I didn't leave backstage so they couldn't, they wouldn't let me back in. But I just stayed the whole time for the two shows, and it was amazing. And I shared the photos with Pal or the lead designer, Paul and the team straight away, and then shared them on social media as soon as I got home. And that meant that my photos were the ones to go viral. I don't know if that helped much on this side of things like wedding photography, in terms of me sharing those same images behind the scene, the backstage ones, which I still have on my Instagram, and then being able to reach out later and say, "I'm doing a styled shoot. I would love to loan your gowns." And they all had already known that I'd shot for them and shot these nice images that got really good traction. So I hired a model, and then I asked everyone else if they would just like to work on a styled shoot. I said I had this designer who was, you know, high end luxury, and I found a model that was wanting to also shoot and wear Paulo Sebastian and I paid her.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, how much did you pay her?

Lei Lei Clavey: Because she wanted, she was normally, I think, 3000 for the day, which I would have done, but she wanted to shoot with Paulo Sebastian, so she charged me a thousand. So it's just, even just having one brand name, and there's, this is unknown photographer shooting this, one brand name, and that sort of set the..

Andrew Hellmich: Everything in motion.

Lei Lei Clavey: Exactly, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: Let me take you back to that fashion show. So you turned up. Did you have an invitation? You turned up just as a guest to go and watch?

Lei Lei Clavey: I had bought a ticket to to watch the show.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And you had your, what your Canon, you know, 5D with you or something?

Lei Lei Clavey: I had a Sony a7.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, right. And are you dressed, you know, in a fashion? Are you dressed up? You know, like what you're wearing now, you would make a statement as soon as you walk into the room. And maybe you can describe, for the listener, what you're wearing now. This is a beautiful, colorful dress. I think it is.

Lei Lei Clavey: It's a blue top from LMA with a high neck and, like, puff sleeves and just, yeah, lovely color. Love LMA, and that's an interesting thing with part of the brand. A lot of people forget this, is like, it's not just how your Instagram looks or how your logo or your colors are or your website, it's how you are. And so if you turn up wearing, you know, like board shorts and, or like a sloppy tee, or like pajama you know, yeah, you're going to be perceived differently, as if you showed up, and this is a top underneath. I have my active wear leggings on, but you can't see that, and that is okay.

Andrew Hellmich: So tell me, what were you wearing when you turned up to the fashion show with your camera, like, were you dressed up to the nines?

Lei Lei Clavey: I was dressed up as an attendee to go to the show, so I think I was wearing maybe a black blazer, some sort of top like this, black pants, heels, and, yeah, I looked like I was meant to be there or meant to be backstage.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And who did you approach?

Lei Lei Clavey: It was one of the girl the event coordinators on the door.

Andrew Hellmich: What? Okay, so, and she had the clout to allow you to go backstage.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah, because she was going to get in trouble if there were more. Because if everyone got backstage that, you know, it'd be so and like, models are getting changed back there. They were deaf. Have no idea who I was, but I was just like, "Please let me backstage." And yeah, it worked. And so then the following year, I emailed them, because it was in Adelaide, I had to fly over, and I said, "Can I come back and shoot backstage again?" And they said, "Yeah, please".

Andrew Hellmich: Amazing

Lei Lei Clavey: "Would like to invite you back." So it's just, I guess, take the risks even just ask, and they could say no. And same with Paolo Sebastian. Have asked a few times, and every time they say 'yes', they've recently run workshops for wedding photographers, and it didn't align with their brand to be featured on 25 different photographers websites. So they said no to loaning a gown for my workshops, which I totally, I completely understand.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. Okay, so you establish this relationship, which is amazing. You've got these photos on Instagram which are getting traction. You book a model, you set up this photo shoot. So is it bride only, or do you find a groom as well for this style shoot?

Lei Lei Clavey: So this is where, I've always, when it comes to fashion editorial and fashion bridal editorial, there's hardly ever a groom. It's always just a girl, a bride, looking beautiful and like, you know, maybe she's run away from the groom, I'm not sure, but you know, often, like just running in a field and he's nowhere to be seen. It's also cheaper for us because we don't need to hire a groom. So that's how I've done my styled shoots. I've only done a few over the years. I've actually got one tomorrow, and now I treat them like campaigns, and this is where I will invest the money in a good model, in trying to make every element the best as it can. If I only do one or two year, it's worth the investment, say, $5,000 to create this brand campaign for myself. And the other thing that really worked was putting money into a website and branding. I knew what looked good, but I couldn't do it myself.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. All right, I'm gonna ask you about your website and branding in just a second. But let's say so for tomorrow's shoot, you're investing, I think you said $5,000 is that the full investment? That's everything?

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah, it's with some incidentals I've put in, you know, $500 for courier, maybe some extra for dry cleaning, model cost.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So from that $5,000 sure you're going to have some photos for your website, some for socials, Instagram, Facebook, you know you have something to talk about on your podcast, like, how do you get your money's worth out of that $5,000 expense, that investment?

Lei Lei Clavey: So it shows exactly the type of client that I would like to attract, and shows what I, the details and the elements that I love as much as I love the emotion and the beautiful part of the day that at someone's wedding. But people come to me because they love the editorial details and how I capture the styling elements, because that's important to them as well. So showcasing that, because what I'm finding with a lot of as I'm getting into the education space, a lot of people are just waiting to get the perfect portfolio wedding that has every element that they want and that will book them all the work. But they're waiting, and I don't think there's any chance that there's going to be 100% portfolio wedding, might have elements that is perfect, but other things might not be so perfect. So creating your own campaign. This is what all the brands do. They wouldn't wait for someone to, you know, say, a luggage brand wouldn't wait for someone to buy a piece of luggage to then shoot some content and go "I hope that's our, you know, next winning shot that will make us all the money." They make a campaign out of it, and would sell their luggage like that, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I get that. I totally respect and understand where you're coming from, but surely after your, you know, 36 weddings from last year and 36 from the year before. You must have all those elements already captured to market, you know, for the next five years.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yes, but then the ideal client keeps changing.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So you're going higher and higher end.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yes. And so there's even tiny elements, like even a shoe brand that just won't make it to the Instagram because, or the website, because it's just not right. It's like, even to that detail.

Andrew Hellmich: So what do you mean that the brides that you photographed aren't wearing the right brand of shoes that you would like to have featured on your website?

Lei Lei Clavey: Yes, and it sounds so tedious, but, and I get it, I'm a practi… like, I'm not my ideal client either. And this is what I started out being like, 'I'm totally my ideal client, just with my ideal client has more money'. But actually, I realize I'm not. I'm not flying to Europe, you know, once a year, spending two months over there and buying all the luxury shoes. I would rather have the comfortable shoes of my wedding as well, and yeah, but it is, so I think it's realigning myself with where is the brand going. Some past shops that were definitely the ideal, the ideal client then are now moving into not being as ideal just because of even a venue might just be a little bit, you know, maybe it looks too Aussie, it doesn't look European enough, those sort of things that very being very selective to attract, yeah, that higher end luxury client.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. Take us back to when you hired someone to help with your branding. So did you actually map all this out yourself, or did you hire a designer to actually, you know, to paint your vision?

Lei Lei Clavey: I hired a designer. I knew which elements I wanted to, what I wanted to look like, and it still hasn't actually changed very much. It's still been like elegant, luxurious, while still approachable. And so I basically just painted this picture for them, showed them my work, and then they were able to create this new brand and website, which I am now moving, as I was saying about moving into a higher end or like a luxury market. I'm now pairing that back on my website, to not, it's a completely this is I'm still in transition, so it'll be interesting, after talking to you, saying, you know, looking back at my journey, maybe even in a year, and how much it's changed, but it's really worked for the high end client, what I've been doing now to the luxury how do I navigate that? And it's not about money for them, it's about trust, desirability, credibility, brand alignment.

Andrew Hellmich: So I'm seeing all the elements that you're talking about and describing on your website right now, so I'll be interested to see where it goes as well. But how did you get to where you are now? I mean, like you said, Yes, you hired a design. You had this vision. Did you say, you know, did you give her or him, you know, brands that you wanted to be associated with, you know, like Vogue or Harper's Bazaar or Gucci, you know, did you say, "I want my fonts to look like theirs or like the magazine fonts", like, did you go to that kind of detail?

Lei Lei Clavey: No, I think they did, though, in terms of just how they knew in their head. I have my own top 20 list, and this is what I do every year. I write a top 20 list of brands that I'd love to work with in some way, even if it's not a wedding brand, say, if it's Chanel, I want to if they're on my top 20 list, is there some way that I can align myself with their brand? I went to my designers, Hello, Hello, because they were the experts in their field. So there was complete trust there, and it's the exact way that I want to be received by my clients is there's complete trust. Another reason to do a styled shoot is they can see, okay, you've directed this. This is there's all the trust there. My ideal client comes to me with no brief, "Love what you do, just shoot our day as you see it", right? And that's the ideal.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that when that's every photographer's ideal, isn't it? So with the designer with just a Hello, Hello, did you sit down with them, or was it over Zoom or emails, and, you know, describe your perfect avatar? Did you have to map out colors? Did you have to have, like in depth conversations about, you know, who your ideal client is, who you're trying to attract, what you don't want, what you do want.

Lei Lei Clavey: So they asked me all of those questions so they could paint a clear picture of what I was wanting. They didn't ask about colors and things, because we're leaving it up to them. And to, yeah, figure that out. But it was more what words do you associate with? Who is your ideal client? How much are your, how much your prices and things so we can align that way. And so when it came to giving me my first iteration of the brand, they had already sent me a back brief. So this is what we see it looking like, something like this. "What do you think?" And they hadn't done any work, but they had pinned a mood board together of all different, different sort of fonts that they were thinking some of my images so it could look cohesive. And they said, "What do you think about this vibe?" And I was like, "Yep, it's perfect." So then they came back and, like, with only one iteration of the logo. I know that some designers give, like, three or so, so you can pick which one you prefer, but for them, they think if they ask all the right questions and do the pre work, then they would deliver exactly what you were looking for, instead of, like, "What about something like one of these? Which ones do you prefer?" So it worked really well.

Andrew Hellmich: Amazing. So I imagine at that time, and I might have the timeline incorrect here, but it sounds like, you know, you'd shot a wedding for $350 and now you're about to go in and charge, you know, 5,6,7, $8,000. So was that a scary conversation to be having with the designer, saying, you know, I want to be associated with these top fashion brands, yet I've only charged $350 so far. Was that something you were fighting with in your head, or were you supremely confident, knowing that that's the trajectory you're on?

Lei Lei Clavey: Confident

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. So where did that come from? That confidence?

Lei Lei Clavey: I just had to make it work.

Andrew Hellmich: Why, like, why wouldn't you be a typical photographer that went from $350 to, you know, $1,000 to $2,000 to two and a half to three? What allowed you to go from 350 to 8000?

Lei Lei Clavey: I have expensive taste to fuel that somehow. No, I think it was purely because I associate shot and second shot for a few photographers in the early year, year and a half, and I figured out that the weddings that were where aesthetics wasn't a focus, it was a bit of a chore. They were so beautiful. Like, I'm always so honored to be part of someone's day, but if they love the details, and it doesn't have to be designer things, sometimes the wedding actually doesn't cost very much, but the style and their little details are so beautiful and done so well that lights me up. When I get to a wedding, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I would shoot this for free. It's so good." That's when, that's when I know I've hit the jackpot on the head and so that's what I bring out in my, everything I do is I love these elements as much as I also love, you know, the emotion and the like, the ceremony of the day. I love beautiful things, and if you love beautiful things too, then we will get along. So I knew that if I was shooting a backyard barbecue wedding, that would be a bit of a slog for me.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So when was the crossover? At what price point was the crossover from you being your own ideal client to, "Okay, now I'm moving up in the in society. I'm shooting a different a different kind of client."

Lei Lei Clavey: I think the actual, it was almost like all the weddings that were under $5,000, which I think that average actually might be six and a half now, just with inflation, it might but back a year and a half ago, 5000 was, anyone under that there were things that even the client, they wanted more from me. They wanted me to stay extra time. They didn't trust what I was doing. They had to, you know, list out "These are all the details that we'd like you to capture". It's like, "Yeah, I know." Whereas the people over 5000 they were like, "Do whatever you want. We love your work. Just be free."

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. So those clients actually became better.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yes, and so that's what I'm telling..

Andrew Hellmich: Or easier?

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah, I'm telling people who I'm doing mentoring calls with, you will find there's like, there's a sudden, what, like, a sudden leap that they just go over, and then they turn out to be easier clients, maybe because of the whole price equals perceived value. Maybe. Maybe they're less bargain hunters, because under four, when I was, I made a package where I was seven, seven hours, which was my perfect, perfect amount of coverage. I realize now I can't fit all the things I want to within seven hours. If they want getting ready and dance for it's not going to happen. But seven hours was perfect, because I wasn't too tired the next day, I still had little ones, so was waking up over the night, still waking up over the night, but seven hours was perfect. So I said, "Okay, if I price up seven hours, I think it comes to four nine." So that slipped into the $4,000 budget people so they could stretch to four nine. And they were like, "Great, we're getting Lei. She's still, you know, in the 4000 mark. But then would, can we remove the timeline consultation? Can we remove the fine art prints? Can we remove the cloud storage?" So they would take off, you know, $200, $200 and then it gets it closer to the 4000 and then a year later, when I'm shooting it, it's like, this is not my ideal client.

Andrew Hellmich: I can totally see that. I imagine then, you know, this Santorini wedding will be the exact opposite, like they won't even notice you. You'll just be going about doing your thing. And that does leave you to it. So it sounds like. So you launched the website. Am I right in assuming that you've literally have only styled shoots on your website at that point?

Lei Lei Clavey: Yes, I had the backstage Paolo Sebastian shots. That was it.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow.

Lei Lei Clavey: And because we also went into COVID, so people start, people weren't very, it was a great time for me to dive into education and learning, like, how do I actually shoot a wedding? And so that was a great time to reflect on the brand and the business, while I also had no bookings, and then I would get people across the line through my website branding, so it looked professional. I was very upfront about my experience. I announced on my blog and on Instagram that my goal was to become one of the best wedding photographers in the world. I launched that like, I don't know, six months into the business, I had shot my registry wedding, then we went into COVID. But I was like, "I'm putting this out there guys that I am going to announce this to keep me accountable. And if I don't get up there, you know, that's a pretty big name to like, a shoes to fill, if I don't get there, that's fine, but at least this is what I'm trying to do." And no one ever asked me like, "Oh, how many weddings have you shot? And they just..

Andrew Hellmich: No one asked, no one asked you that?

Lei Lei Clavey: No one asked.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, that's so good.

Lei Lei Clavey: And so yeah, they would look at my wedding for my fashion photography work from the backstage, Paolo Sebastian, and were like, "I want to look like that. That's what I want to look like."

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Lei Lei Clavey: So I'm booking you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. So they didn't even need wedding photos to be booking you as long as they could see themselves in the images that you were showing. That's it. You were the photographer for them.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah, and obviously some people would have maybe not got back to my inquiries, or not my replies, or maybe not even inquired in the first place because of the lack of experience, maybe, which is so fine, but we only have 52 weekends in a year, and obviously we don't want to be shooting every weekend. And so the first year, when I shot 24 weddings. I can't remember where I think that some were for other people, but some were for myself. And all I needed was just a few of mine to get myself off the ground, and I was able to share some of the associate shots that I shot for other people when they were shooting in the style that I wanted to be, or the weddings that I wanted to be shooting, the editorial ones, and I was like, "This is what I want, and this is how much they're charging. That's how much I need to charge".

Andrew Hellmich: So do you ever hear from those photographers that you were shooting as an associate for and they see your prices now?

Lei Lei Clavey: We still chat. I do get, now that I'm very much podcasting and over like out into the world with my education and things I do, get a bit nervous that people look and find out or hear what I'm, you know, what I'm charging, and they think, you know? "Oh, she has no right to do that." I still have those feelings, because it's like the audacity lady, the audacity that you are charging this, but then people are booking.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, good. Good on you. That's amazing. The clients that you're booking now I'm assuming they're not coming to you through Facebook ads. How are they finding you?

 
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Andrew Hellmich: That sounds amazing. Look, I've got a list of 10 quick questions, but before I get to those, if we've still got time to do them, if you're happy to please tell us about how we can find your podcast, how we can learn about your mentoring, where we can see more of your work, or where's the best place to go and find you online?

Lei Lei Clavey: So my Instagram is Lei Lei Clavey, that's l, e, i, l, e, i, c, l, a, v, e, y. Then I also have an education Instagram account and a website as well. For that is leileiclaveyeducation.com. Or Instagram is just leileiclaveyeducation. My podcast, which is just at the 10 episodes, so it's still new, but very exciting. It's called Life and Lens, so you can find that on all everywhere where you listen to your podcasts and, yeah, with mentoring, it's been really fun, because I also get imposter syndrome about this. But then it shouldn't really be imposter syndrome, because I'm not. It's, you know, all just, I'm not, yeah, being an imposter, but being a mentor now, I just love sharing the journey of my steps to anyone who's one step behind me, who just would like to move their business. I have some people who are very new, and they're trying to figure things out, and I don't want them to have to be shooting 75 weddings a year to then think that they can put up their prices, you know. And then I've had other people who have been in the industry for 16 years, and they're like, "Whoa, like you did it in three what have I been doing? I'll have to make changes now." So just it, being able to inspire other people to like you. Can just create the lifestyle you want, and, yeah, do something different with your business if it's not working for you.

Andrew Hellmich: So good. I love how fast you've come up and where you're heading the trajectory. It's amazing. It's going to be absolutely inspirational for the listener. So thank you so much for sharing that. I'll add links to anywhere and everywhere that the listener can find you online, including the podcast. I'm just with the podcast. Is it business focused? Is it shooting focused? Is it interviews? Is it just you?

Lei Lei Clavey: It is a mixture of solo and interviews, and it's business and a bit of photography. Less techie. I'm more a creative artist, rather than like I do love gear, but I'm not super techie, but I love mindset, business, entrepreneurship, mindfulness. I think that one big thing. So it's about balance and success, or success and balance and creating. You can hustle as hard as you want, but if you're not happy, and if you're not balanced in other areas your life, then you're not going to thrive. You're just going to survive until you don't anymore because you hit the ground.

Andrew Hellmich: So true, true. I love that. All right, I'll add links, like I said in the show notes, to where everyone can find you. I didn't set you up for this, but have you got time to do these questions? If I fire them at you?

Lei Lei Clavey: Go for it.

Andrew Hellmich: Let's go.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: You did mention earlier that you were shooting on a Sony a7r but my first question is, what camera system are you using for your weddings?

Lei Lei Clavey: I am using R5 and an R6 Canon.

Andrew Hellmich: And you're shooting film as well. Or is that just..

Lei Lei Clavey: Film as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Which film camera?

Lei Lei Clavey: I have a Canon AE-1. I also have a Fuji GA645, and then a cute little Olympus Mju 1.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice one. I like it. Favorite lens and why?

Lei Lei Clavey: 50 millimeter, the Canon RF50mm, F1.2 L Series. It is so beautiful for details, portraits I could shoot on that all day, if it just gave me a little bit more space like a 35.

Andrew Hellmich: You mentioned Studio Ninja, and my next question is, do you have a favorite piece of software that you use in your business? So it doesn't have to be Studio Ninja, but it might be.

Lei Lei Clavey: Probably on par with Studio Ninja and now Imagen AI, so I have a lot, a lot of images in Imagen, and I probably can't say this too soon, maybe I'll say it, and then, if it doesn't come to fruition, then it but I'm also going to have a talent profile set up with them.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal

Lei Lei Clavey: Which is really exciting.

Andrew Hellmich: I thought that might be coming. I thought that's exciting. That's so good.

Lei Lei Clavey: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: I wouldn't expect anything less. So good. Best thing you've ever done for your business?

Lei Lei Clavey: Go all in with investment, with just heading towards the goals, taking the risks, and if it didn't work out, find another way.

Andrew Hellmich: So good. Well, talking about finding another way. Have you ever had a setback in your business o far?

Lei Lei Clavey: I've had several, and I think it's come from maturity that I have been able to not just dwell on them, but grow from them'. And yeah, I'm so thankful for every, I think, in the past, like in my 20s, I would have just blamed other people, or blamed the gear, or, you know, blamed something else, but not myself. And now I don't even blame myself. I'm just like, 'Thank you for that feedback, wherever it came from or whatever happened. Thank you for that thing to happen, because I know what to change, or I know now I need to change this', and I think I just put it down to some maturity, because I definitely would have blamed other elements and not done anything about it.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, are you talking about lost images, a corrupt card, overexposed film? What are you talking about there?

Lei Lei Clavey: Like communication issues with couples. I haven't had any tech issues so far *touchwood, but it's like communication issues with couples, where they think I'm going to be one place and I think they're going to be another place, and that's an easy fix, because that couple, that couple then might be disappointed or, like, upset or something, because time is shortened. But in terms of next couple, I know exactly what to do. You know, it's just communication, little changes like that. That is like, Oh, when I hear other people, or even I it's like, "Oh, they wanted to keep me for photography coverage for the 45 minutes, and they ran over for 45 minutes. It's like, well, what do I do about that next time?"

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Lei Lei Clavey: Little things like that. And then there's been some bigger things that sometimes it's, it's actually not about you, it's about the person making the comment. It's something, it even comes from us, right? If we make a certain comment or a judgment about something to someone else, it's you're projecting your own feelings. So when someone else is giving criticism at something, it's coming from within. It's not, maybe not a criticism about you, personally.

Andrew Hellmich: True, like that. If you had to start over, you're going to move to the UK, London and to start over. And you know what you know right now. What would you do to kick things off quickly?

Lei Lei Clavey: I would get out there and meet all the vendors and the local creatives in the area. I would shoot styling for the top end venue, stylist planners, and just really get to know them, not just through emails and Instagram, but really show them my personality, not only like, "Oh, here's my work", but show them that I would be an easy and fun person to work with, and that's why they would want to work with me in the future. Think it's those connections and not only just to get work, but also just to create a community. I found that having community from since I started, has just been the best, because that's where I can ask questions. You know, we're at in our offices, at home all the time, just having friends now to bounce off like, "Oh, I had just got that this inquiry, how much should I charge for this?" You know, those sort of things. It's really surrounding yourself with community that's key.

Andrew Hellmich: But for you to do that now, I imagine your community like it must be not volatile, but changing, because you're not the you know, the $3,000 photographer anymore. You're that $18,000 photographer now. So who do you talk to?

Lei Lei Clavey: Well, now I feel like I have two communities, though, so I have now with my Education, I have the like, whatever they're charging the new photographers, and then people who want to move up. And so that's that one community that I used to be in. And then now the new community is the other photographers wanting to get into the luxury space. So they're, we're in the same spot where we're both trying to figure out, how do you make the connections with the planners? What do the luxury couples want that we are failing at? Because our other couples wanted all the things, but now the new luxury client doesn't, so it's actually just, yeah, it's jumping into new groups through new courses and that's one thing that I'll hopefully never stop doing, is just educating myself.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. A couple more, we'll finish off here. Are you a reader, a book reader?

Lei Lei Clavey: Love it, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Have you read a book? Or can you recommend a book that's had a positive impact on your life or your business?

Lei Lei Clavey: A few okay, I love reading ''You Are a Badass at Making Money', that I probably read once every six months and listen to the audio book.

Andrew Hellmich: Really?

Lei Lei Clavey: Yep

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Lei Lei Clavey: And I'm figuring out whenever I don't have any, if I don't have money flow coming in, then I've not putting enough mindfulness towards money and where it's coming from. So then I read that again, and it gets me back in the zone of, like, manifesting. And I love, I love all that. A bit of woo. I love it. I also have just read, or am reading The Mountain Is You.

Andrew Hellmich: I don't know that one.

Lei Lei Clavey: Who's it by? I have to..

Andrew Hellmich: I'll find, I'll find a link to it.

Lei Lei Clavey: But it's really good, because it's about basically other things, or other people aren't in your way, you're in your way. So if you're not getting anywhere, it's because it's you, you know, it's that stuff, that I was like," I'm so fine, like, I'm not in my way at all." And then I started reading the book, and I realized "I am in my way so much", maybe not how other people are, but yeah, so that was quite enlightening, because I thought that I, yeah, wasn't in my way, but I am.

Andrew Hellmich: Two great referrals. All right, I'll link to those in the show notes. Last question for you, Lei Lei, as far as other photographers, who do you look up to? Who should I get on the podcast to interview next?

Lei Lei Clavey: So there's a photographer that I love, and I've asked her, but she is in her zone of saying 'no', with boundaries. So you could try, Andrew, you could try. I'm Alice Moran. She's one of my favorites. And she used to be based in Australia, wedding photographer, editorial wedding photographer, but now she's based in Europe. And yeah, she's amazing. Also Katie Mary, she is a luxury, luxury, luxury wedding Photographer. She probably shoots 10 weddings a year, 50 to 70,000 US dollars each, pop and yeah. Very inspiring to head towards a lifestyle like that. But completely different ball game.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. Lei Lei, this has been such a pleasure. I know we've gone over time. So thank you so much for sharing everything you have. I know for a fact that one day, when I asked that last question to other photographers, they're gonna be saying, "You gotta get Lei Lei back on". I'm gonna say, "Well, I already did back when she was only charging $20,000", so massive thanks for coming on and sharing everything you have.

Lei Lei Clavey: Thank you so much, Andrew, for having me.