020: Kate MacPherson – Wedding Photography Success with No Upselling, Smart Branding and a Bright Pink G-String

020: Kate MacPherson – Wedding Photography Success with No Upselling, Smart Branding and a Bright Pink G-String

 

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, I'm really excited to have Kate MacPherson all the way from Wellington, New Zealand, on the podcast today. I was told about Kate from a listener, Claire Wolf down in Melbourne, and she raved about Kate's work. I checked it out myself, and it is absolutely fantastic. Now, when I contacted Kate to come onto the show and let her know that it was a business focused podcast on photography, she said to me in her email, "I'm not usually into making lots of money, so my approach is perhaps a little less sales focus than most, just so you know." But when I jumped over to Kate's website, I see that her wedding packages start at $5,000 and that's starting package that for someone that's not into making money, I'm really keen to find out more. Kate, welcome to the podcast.

Kate MacPherson: Thanks, Andrew.

Andrew Hellmich: So what's the goal with this? Not making money, but charging five grand as a starting price?

Kate MacPherson: That's interesting that you think about it like, I guess, my what I meant by that little comment was I'm not sales focused, and I'm not into upselling or anything like that. So perhaps I, well, I have kind of decided to have an upfront price, and there's no upsell from that. So those prices are a starting price, and that's what it is, and that's just the way my brain works and how I work and how, you know, I can plan things, and I think that's what I mean. You know, I'm not hugely into upselling.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, so I guess, it was what you're saying now. Then if a couple come to book you for their wedding, and they pick the $5,000 package that they're not going to be expecting to spend eight or $10,000 after the wedding day.

Kate MacPherson: Exactly. And the reason for that is I hate being upsold to myself. I just, I cringe, you know, I just, I like to be really transparent and upfront. And, you know, to me, that's kind of integrity. And I, you know, kind of, that's something I kind of hold right up there. So I'd like to follow those guidelines, if you like.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I mean, I think no one likes to be up sold, but it's like it's, it's almost expected these days, isn't it with anything you buy.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, well, I guess it isn't, and it isn't. It is in if you know that it's coming. But sometimes I think certainly, certainly some sales books I've read is sort of a bit cagey about letting people know what's next. I just want to be completely transparent up front. And people have responded really well to that, and they seem to like that I'm, you know, I say in my initial meeting, "I won't upsell you. This is the price, you know, this is the leave price, whatever package you decide to go for, the 5000 the next one or the next one, that's, that's the price."

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. Okay, so what do the packages go up to for you?

Kate MacPherson: Okay, they start at, is it 4,995.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes

Kate MacPherson: Basic package. And that is, every package has the digital file. So that's for the digital files. They're all edited and color and tone corrected. And they get a USB stick of all their files. And then the next one up includes a coffee book, and it's seven and a half thousand and that so it includes the reception photography as well, and the coffee book for seven and a half, and it's a bit of a, if you go for that package, it is a bit of a savings compared with wanting to get the basic package and buy a coffee book later on.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Kate MacPherson: Does that make sense?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it does. Yes. So with your coverage, I know we've dived in really deep. We've dived in really deep here. So with your coverage, when you say reception, is that to the end of reception, or until the first dance?

Kate MacPherson: Pretty much the end of reception. Well, I should say, you know, an hour into the dancing, at least, I sort of gauge each wedding on its you know, what's going on. And, you know, if everyone's not really dancing, and they're not having a good time, and I feel like I've got all the dancing I'm going to get, then I'll have a chat to the couple and say, you know, "Is there anything else that you want?" And sometimes it's just going really well, and I'll just keep shooting. But yeah, it's definitely includes the dancing. I think it's really important part of the fun to capture. So particularly if they're paying extra for it, I'm going to stay and shoot it

Andrew Hellmich: For sure, for sure. And then, do you have a, do you say you have a top package as well, like, even dearer than the seven and a half?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, so that's nine and a half, I think, or closer to 10, somewhere between nine and a half and 10. I can't, I'm sorry, I should have that off the top of my head, but most people go for that middle package. You know, I've only, a handful of people go for the top package, and that is a fine art book, which is a bit more, you know, it's really heavy, and it's a bit more of an object rather than a coffee book. And it includes, actually, I've just, I'll bring it up here, because I've got them on my computer, so I can tell you exactly what they are.

Andrew Hellmich: So you say the middle package is the most popular. Is that because it's priced that way, that it's more attractive?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, I think so, yeah. So you get a bit of a savings when you go with the middle package. So there's an a la carte version where you can choose the basic package and then any add-ons sort of after the fact, but if you combine it beforehand, then that's when you get the savings. So it's a savings of around, oh, God, I shouldn't have brought this up.

Andrew Hellmich: That's okay. I've got the general idea. So really. So you would present all this to your clients when they're looking at booking, rather than trying to sell them all these things afterwards. So you just show them what's available, and then they choose, is that? Is that the way it works?

Kate MacPherson: Exactly. Yep. So everything's up front.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, okay.

Kate MacPherson: They do. Well, that's that, I guess that's the key. If they decide to go for the package before the wedding day, that's when they get the savings. If they decide to wait till after the wedding day, that's when the savings disappear, and it's more a la carte. Does that make sense?

Andrew Hellmich: It sounds like you've got, certainly, plenty of options there, and people can upgrade, and you can almost upsell them, but you do all that at the first meeting or before the actual wedding day.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, that's exactly right. So that'll that, and the way I've packaged things seems to work really well, and that they feel like when they book that package before the wedding, that's when they get the savings. So I've just got it actually in front of me. Now, the coffee book package is 7,345 and they save $645 if they book that before the wedding. So if they book it after, you know, if they go for those things after the wedding, it's $645 more than that.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so it's definitely in their interest to do that before?

Kate MacPherson: Yes, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, perfect. So, how many weddings are you doing a year, roughly?

Kate MacPherson: Um, around 20 to 25 you know, somewhere in that region. I definitely couldn't do more than 25. I've done that before, and it was, yeah, it was, I think, a bit of a turning point, really.

Andrew Hellmich: So, so the 20 or 25 that's by choice or so you actually knocking weddings back?

Kate MacPherson: I, yeah, my knocking weddings back. I of course, you get multiple inquiries for similar dates, but those 20 to 25 are generally most weekends over summer.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Kate MacPherson: And either side of summer. So there's not really many winter weddings in there, although this I'm about to shoot one next weekend. But yeah, that's majority is over summer.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. How about because we dived in so deep, so quickly there. How about you give listeners a little bit of an idea of where, where you're situated, and a little bit about the climate and maybe the population as well.

Kate MacPherson: Okay, cool. Well, I'm in Wellington, which is the bottom of the North Island in New Zealand, and at the moment it's a, there's a horrific storm outside. So it's freezing, it's winter, but generally the weather's in Wellington is pretty changeable. I think it's quite a challenging place to photograph weddings. It's very windy, and, you know, you get four seasons in one day, so you never quite know what you're going to get. And when I first started out, I thought that was, you know, everything was stacked against me, but I've since come to realize it's been really great because it's helped me certainly think on my feet a lot more quickly and deal with challenging situations really fast. And that can only be a good thing, right?

Andrew Hellmich: For sure, especially for weddings.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So what sort of population has Wellington got?

Kate MacPherson: I think it's about 400,000.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and is that where all of your weddings come from? Or do you travel?

Kate MacPherson: Oh, no, I travel. Yeah. I probably shoot half of my weddings in Wellington and the surrounding areas of Wellington, and then half I fly to wherever the wedding is, Auckland, which is north or Queenstown, is popular down on the South Island. I shoot at quite a few weddings down there. You know, there's, there's a quite a few places around New Zealand that are beautiful, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. So when you do, when you say, you travel to other weddings, it's all still within New Zealand most of the time?

Kate MacPherson: Most of the time, yeah. I've only done a couple or three international weddings. So them, yeah, mostly national.

Kate MacPherson: Okay, so when you fly within New Zealand to do these weddings. How do you work at your pricing? Then do you, what extra do you charge for?

Kate MacPherson: I charge the travel costs, so the flights and the accommodation and the car hire.

Andrew Hellmich: So just one night or two nights?

Kate MacPherson: Two nights, two nights’ accommodation, because I always go the night before. I have once flown in on the morning, and it was because the weather is so changeable here, and the airport closes off, and it's a bit risky. So I always go the day before if I can.

Andrew Hellmich: Tell us a little bit about you. So how did you get started in photography?

Kate MacPherson: I went to university straight after school for five years, and got a couple of degrees that are nothing to do with photography. And then I went traveling, as most Kiwis do. And I went and lived in London for three years, and sort of traveled around well, Africa, Southeast Asia and Europe, and had a great time, really. And when I came back from traveling, I was at a bit of a loss as to what to do. So it was kind of good timing. I met someone who was, who sort of suggested photography, and I was into photography, and there's a little school starting up. So I was the very first class that went through the school, which was a real gamble, really, but luckily, one that paid off tenfold, because the tutor, or the guy who ran the school, was so heavily invested in making it work. He was, he was just such a wonderful mentor. His name was Mel Phillips, and I'm forever indebted to him for the experience he gave me back then.

Andrew Hellmich: So this is back in New Zealand. So you finished traveling, came back home and did this class.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, that's right.

Andrew Hellmich: So at this stage, you were a hobby photographer, or, well?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, I've been given a digital, not a digital, a film SLR, for my 21st and so I took that on my travels around Africa and Asia and I got the photos back. And I remember going in to get them developed, and the girl, the girl at the counter, said, "Ah, these, these are great. It's like couple in there that are sort of postcard shots." I went away thinking, "Oh, okay, I'm not as bad at this photography thing as I think." So that kind of started my interest. You know, just to clarify, I've gone back and looked at those photos in that fricking awful, that's terrible, but, you know, she was just a lovely girl, you know, I'm sure she said that to everyone. That for me, that was like, "Oh, okay, you know, maybe I'm okay at this photography thing."

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome

Kate MacPherson: Yeah. And it sort of just started an interest really. So it was more of a hobby until I went to school.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you go to school is this, like, a three year course or a one?

Kate MacPherson: No, it's a one. It was two, six-month block, so I didn't really want to go back to university for years, because I'd already been there. So for me, it was perfect. It was a year intensive study, and it was very much creative focus, you know, a lot less theory than other institutions. It was very practical and hands on. And it was great. It was great for my confidence and as a photographer.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so fast forward that 12 months, and you're back out on the street. What's the next step?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, so I was really lucky to get a part time job assisting a commercial photographer here in Wellington, Stephen A’Court, who shoots a lot of theater and dance. And it was an actual part time job, which is really hard to get as an assistant nowadays, but that was back in the days of films and medium format films, so there was a lot for me to do. You know, there was printing in the dark room and proof sheets and helping on shoots and loading film and dropping things off and picking them up from the lab. So yeah, I do feel very lucky that I got that experience, also seeing how someone else runs a business and works, was great too, and he's so, he was so generous to me with his knowledge and gear. And you know, I'll always remember that.

Andrew Hellmich: Did he actually let you sort of look at the book, like, did you know how much you were charging, how much he was turning over? What the profit was, that sort of thing?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah. Well, I knew most things I can't remember going into in depth personal discussions about his finances or anything.

Andrew Hellmich: No, no. But I mean, did you walk away from that thinking, "Okay, this wedding or this photography thing, I could make a living doing this?"

Kate MacPherson: Oh, absolutely yes, he makes a good living. Yeah, for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: So is that where you got the idea of going out on your own, or was that always the plan?

Kate MacPherson: That was always the plan.

Kate MacPherson: And did you tell him that?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, he knew that. Yeah.

Kate MacPherson: Oh, cool. Okay. So how long were you with Stephen for?

Kate MacPherson: I probably assisted him a couple of years part time. And in that time, I started to get a few small jobs myself. And he was, I mean, he was great about all of that. There was no, you know, you he wasn't really a studio where I was working for him. It was more of an assistant role, if you like, you know, yeah, because I know there's some photography companies that bring someone in and train them and want them to work with them for a long period of time. It was a bit different to that. Yeah, he was certainly extremely generous with letting me do what I want, and even handing me a third job here and there that was, you know, he couldn't do.

Andrew Hellmich: What a great start.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, I know.

Andrew Hellmich: So what were these first little jobs that you're picking up?

Kate MacPherson: Well, they weren't weddings so much. They were more, you know, the odd headshot or commercial job where a company needed a few photos for their website. Or, you know, I did a few family shoots, which I don't really do now, but I sort of shot whatever came my way, really.

Andrew Hellmich: Like everyone when they start.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, well, actually, most people, although I met someone recently who's amazing, an amazing photographer, and has a vision right from the word go, and he doesn't compromise. And, you know, I think that's a, there's something to be said for that as well. So it just wasn't my path.

Andrew Hellmich: Who was that? If you don't mind me asking

Kate MacPherson: Ollie Samson, do you know?

Andrew Hellmich: I judged alongside Ollie, yeah.

Kate MacPherson: Just an amazing photographer, and yeah, we both spoke at a retreat down in Queenstown, and I just thought his attitude and approach was quite unique. And you know what, I kind of wished I was starting again so I could be a little bit more selective about what I took on.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so what happened then, once you started sort of picking up a few more jobs, and you finished with Stephen?

Kate MacPherson: So after, after a while, my friends were starting to get married, so as happens when you're a photographer, they asked me to photograph their wedding, and I did a few weddings, and realized that actually they weren't as lame as I thought. Because, you know, when you're a student..

Andrew Hellmich: The weddings weren't.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, no, no, the wedding photography. Yeah, the whole experience. Because, like, I was just saying that when you're a student, it's very uncool to want to be a wedding photographer. I mean, that's changed a bit now, but 10 years ago, 12 years ago, it was like, "Oh, really? It's kind of the bottom, the bottom of the photography pool." But after shooting a few I realized, "Oh, actually, I get a bit of creative freedom here, and I get to meet really lovely people and be in this happy environment", and all these great things that I thought people were missing, just through blinkers on, you know, and also that guaranteed income where, you know what's coming that that was pretty nice when you first starting out.

Andrew Hellmich: Definitely. Okay. So, did you actually start Kate MacPherson Photography then? Or?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So he kicked off. You're off, off and running.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you did it. Did you do? How did you build up this portfolio? Was that with your friends weddings that you did for free? Or did you charge right from the get go?

Kate MacPherson: Well, luckily, I have lovely friends, and I didn't charge much, but they, you know, they were happy to pay me. And they sort of, yeah, they didn't want it for free. They were like, it was sort of mates rates, I guess. But everybody was so nice about, you know, giving me a go and the experience was so great that it just kind of snowballed from there. And then their friends got married, and then I put in, back then I put a couple ads in a magazine, and that went okay, I wouldn't do that now, but back then, that was sort of what you did. There weren't, there were hardly any websites. This is sort of 2002 - 2003 and I actually went to a class and learnt how to write a bit of code and made my own first website, which was awful. But back then, I was one of the, you know, not everyone had a website, so that was a bit of a unique thing as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So you were cutting edge in Wellington.

Kate MacPherson: Definitely not in wider but, yeah, in Wellington and they weren't also, there weren't a lot of women my age shooting weddings. So I had a bit of an advantage there, I think.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay, so what we sort of mid 20s at this stage?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Okay, so was this, was it already full time from that, from, you know, from those first weddings, or did you have a part time job doing other things?

Kate MacPherson: Well, the part time job was with Stephen, and then after a couple of years, I think that's when I went full time.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay, great. So 2004 - 2005 you're full time shooting weddings.

Kate MacPherson: Yep, shooting weddings. And also other things. I shot for magazines and I shot families. I shot a few other things as well, but predominantly weddings.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And how did most of the weddings come in at that stage? You said magazine advertising was one thing.

Kate MacPherson: Yep, and word of mouth.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And how did you, did you promote the word of mouth? Or just came automatically?

Kate MacPherson: It sort of came automatically. I didn't consciously go out and network or anything. I'm not very good at that sort of thing. So I think I was just lucky. You know, the people who got married, they tended to recommend me to their friends. And, you know, as happens, one group of friends get married, and, you know, a few of them in that group get married. And, yeah, I think I was just in the right, right place at the right time, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So, so tell me about the journey then from that, that 2005 period to, you know, for the next eight years till now, is, have you seen much of a change in your business?

Kate MacPherson: Yes. Yes, I have.

Andrew Hellmich: What have you seen?

Kate MacPherson: Well, of course, there was a change from film to digital, and that changed the way I shot quite a lot. And I think it improved my photography, to be honest, and going through the experience of booking up too many weddings, you know, too many that I could handle, and so sort of crashing one year and realizing, "Okay, this is not working. What do I need to change?" That was huge. And it was great. I, you know, you look back now and go, "Oh, so it was a hard time, but it was, it was I had to go through it."

Andrew Hellmich: So how did you, how did you say no to weddings? What did you do to do less weddings?

Kate MacPherson: I put my prices up.

Andrew Hellmich: Thought that's what you might have said. So, so were you charging too little back then? Or you just got better and you put your prices up. How did that work?

Kate MacPherson: I got better and I, my confidence increased. So I was, I just got, you know, good feedback, and suddenly you think, "Oh, okay, my pricing, I can increase it, because I'm way overbooked, you know. And clearly I have to do something here, you know, there's too much work, not enough money." So of course, the easy thing to do is put your prices up and that did work. That was the way to do it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And when you put those prices up, when things were good, did you double your prices, or did they go up in increments?

Kate MacPherson: They went up in increments, but some of them were quite big increments.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so for someone else listening now, say a new starter that's booking weddings, they're quite cheap, and they want to take that next step, you know, what would you tell them to do with their prices?

Kate MacPherson: I'll put them up.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, but by lot or just little bits at a time?

Kate MacPherson: Well, I think it sort of depends on how many bookings you've got. I think perhaps it might be a bit much if you don't have many bookings, and then you take a big jump, you probably want to have quite a few bookings, and now you've got them under your belt under your belt, and then make that big jump. Otherwise, it's probably better to go in smaller increments.

Andrew Hellmich: And then, and you also mentioned there that you were doing magazine advertising. You said you'd never do that now.

Kate MacPherson: Oh, the magazine?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kate MacPherson: Oh yeah, I probably would still do it. I mean, I do the odd magazine shoot now it doesn't..

Andrew Hellmich: Sorry, I meant the magazine advertising.

Kate MacPherson: Oh, the magazine advertising. Yes, no, I wouldn't do that now.

Andrew Hellmich: Why not?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, just, I haven't, you know, just not quite sure that, that is the place where money is well spent. I actually don't spend any money on advertising or very little. I'm in a couple of directories that are very cheap. But, yeah, I don't believe that's the best way to get work.

Andrew Hellmich: You mean that's all the way along, or just now that that's a recent sort of decision that you've made with your business?

Kate MacPherson: I have, to the last time I put an ad in a magazine would have been seven or eight years ago.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so where are your weddings coming from these days?

Kate MacPherson: Well, everything sort of comes online from to me, from my blog and from featuring on other blogs.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, how do you get featured on other blogs?

Kate MacPherson: Well..

Andrew Hellmich: And which blogs?

Kate MacPherson: I have been a bit slack. I have to admit, over the last year, I haven't made any effort to feature on blogs. But for a while there I hit you know, knew a couple of people who had blogs and that we had a good relationship, so I just flicked them a couple of weddings every now and then and often they'd run them and that's great for your SEO on website as well. I think I got a bit of business through there actually.

Andrew Hellmich: These blogs that you're, that you get featured on their wedding blogs. How? How do you go about getting these features?

Kate MacPherson: Well, it sort of happened organically for me. I, somebody, a couple of them contacted me, and then I met someone who ran a blog here in New Zealand, who, who's lovely, and she's featured my work a few times. And yes, it's been sort of, has, I haven't really had to try too hard, which, which has been great because I, I'm not very proactive about going out and submitting to blogs, but I, over the last year, I've been a lot slacker on there, and I haven't really put the effort in. So I need to, I need to probably do that a little bit more.

Andrew Hellmich: So it sounds to me like you've had the dream run. Everything's just falling into place.

Kate MacPherson: No, no, I don't know about that. I mean, the years, the hard years where I was, yeah, shooting too much and not charging enough, and not really knowing what I was doing, that certainly wasn't a dream run at all.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. Okay. So you would suggest to anyone listening that's trying to get things going for their business and get people coming to their website that submitting images and stories to blogs would be a good idea?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, I do. I have a I have a feeling it's a lot harder now than it was when I first, you know, a few years ago, when I first started realizing that there were wedding blogs out there. My instinct is that there's so many more photographers now that, yeah, to be featured, you need an amazing wedding and you need some really good work. So yeah, I'm not quite sure where things are at the moment, things change so fast in this industry, don't they?

Andrew Hellmich: They do, that's for sure. Yeah. And I think, like you said, getting featured on the bigger blogs is definitely a tougher proposition these days. You mean, you have to have exceptional work and you have to have some good words to go along with it as well.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, that's right. I mean, perhaps when I was featured, it was a lot easier. I'm sure it was, and I certainly have, yeah, I've dropped the ball lately, so I'm probably out of the loop a little bit. But if you can get featured on a blog with all the hits that it can bring your way, that, I think that can only be a good thing if it's a blog you really like.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, so you'll be you're saying to me, then, like, even if you have dropped the ball, you're still booking your 20-25 weddings a year, and most of those are coming through your website?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, through my website, and through, through people like, referrals.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so now you said with your referral, so you don't offer a bonus to your existing clients to sort of recommend you?

Kate MacPherson: No, I don't at all. Oh, I feel, I would feel like quite uncomfortable doing that.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Kate MacPherson: But that's me, like, I'd say, you know, I'm a, I'm probably not the best example to follow in that respect. It's just that would feel a bit uncomfortable to me.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, so really, I mean, I just trying to work out how, how the weddings are coming to you, so that word of mouth and the website, so, but you're not really, so you're not really actively going out there and chasing weddings. They're just coming to you?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, but just, I mean, remember, I've been going for 10 years now, so I suppose that's on my side. You know, when you've been established for a while, you know a few more people in the city, and they then they can recommend people. So, yeah, I guess I'm lucky.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so what would you do next year? If you know, you look at the books and there's only five weddings booked?

Kate MacPherson: I probably would actively go and try and feature on some blogs.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Kate MacPherson: That would be the first thing I'd do, just because it's worked for me in the past.

Andrew Hellmich: So how would you go about doing that? What would you what would be the first step?

Kate MacPherson: Well, I'd send some emails out to the blogs I already know, and then I'd do a bit of research and find the ones that I didn't know. And I'm sure these submission guidelines on there, I'd, you know, go through that process.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And do you, do you normally just send images, or do you have a story that goes along with your with your photos?

Kate MacPherson: In the past, I've always written my own little blurb about the wedding and then sent some images off. But I'm not sure. Perhaps there's different guidelines for different websites that you know they require a bit more than that. I've only got ever gone back to the client if they've said, "Oh yeah, we want to run that.", so.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, just to double check it's okay?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, oh yes, absolutely. I'd never run something without double checking it.

Andrew Hellmich: So that's one thing you do, is approach these blogs. Anything else that you might do, things did go quiet next year?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, that's a really good question. I've, I haven't really thought about that. Well, I'm about to have a baby, so for me, I haven't, I haven't considered that at all, because I want to take a break.

Andrew Hellmich: See, I told you, everything is just falling into place for you.

Kate MacPherson: But yes, good question. Maybe I come back to that. I have a, we think about what I would do.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. Now, you, you just mentioned you are having a baby soon, and I also saw on Facebook that you're at the moment, you're sharing a studio. Can you just tell us how that works?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, the studio sharing is great. It's with another commercial photographer and some guys who do motion graphics for film and television. And it's a really nice group of people, and it's an open plan shared office, but there's a separate meeting room that you can meet clients and that we've, you know, we've made and, you know, tried to make it look as good as we can, but it's great, because I got a bit lone. I had an office on my own for a while, and I got a bit lonely, working by myself all the time. So for me, it was perfect. I really liked having other people around.

Andrew Hellmich: So you do everything yourself, don't you?

Kate MacPherson: I do everything myself. Yeah, I always have. I even shoot by myself. I don't use a second shooter.

Andrew Hellmich: Can you do all the editing album, designing the whole?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: So you go to the studio every day?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and you set up, you’re on your computer there, and you do work with the other guys. So do you get some wall space? Or is it a set? Is that set out who's, who's got, what, which wall space?

Kate MacPherson: No, it's really, it's way more loose and organic than that. I mean, yeah, I mean, to be honest, we've only just started putting up pictures lately, so been a bit slack about all that stuff.

Andrew Hellmich: So what, so clients just walk in and they're just blank walls, and you're a photographer?

Kate MacPherson: It is a little bit like that.

Andrew Hellmich: So funny.

Kate MacPherson: We've done other things to kind of make it a bit more off, yeah, I find walking into photography studios where there's images all-around of someone's work, I sometimes find that a bit overwhelming, and also it's a shared space. So I didn't want to plaster the walls with my work, because it's not that other guys work, you know, particularly they're not in the wedding industry, so they don't really want wedding photos everywhere. But for me, I like going to a place where people have got their own the stuff that they like around, not necessarily their own stuff. And I for a while, I met people on cafes, and that was absolutely fine, so I didn't feel like I needed to put heaps of my own prints up on the wall. And it seems to have been okay doing that.

Andrew Hellmich: So you would see all your clients here at this studio in this shared office?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah. Now I do. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, and before that, you were sitting in the cafe. I want to ask you about the cafes in just a sec. So how did you, do you just pay a set rate per week, or does it depend on how many hours you're there? Or how does that work?

Kate MacPherson: Oh, no, it's just a set rate per week. Yep.

Andrew Hellmich: You happy to tell us how much?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, sure. It's a, it's $100 a week.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so that was a sort of a no brainer for you when you looked at going into there?

Kate MacPherson: Yes. Well, previously, I'd been in an office at the Art Center here in Wellington for about three years, and that was an office on my own, which was great, and it was an art center, so it was lots of painters and sculptors and different people, but it was shut away in my own office. And I heard about this space that was more a shared space, and I thought, you know, I'd really like that. I'd really like to be able to have a bit more open plans. And, you know, social interaction, I suppose. And it's been great. It was $100 a week, and it's such nice, that's such nice people. You know, I've been really lucky.

Andrew Hellmich: That sounds nice. Now, why not ever work from home?

Kate MacPherson: Ah, well, I did work from home at the very beginning, and I don't like working from home. I get, I feel really isolated, and I feel like I think way too much about not just work, but about everything. And yeah, I really like the separating work from home. So at the moment, I go to work and I work, and then I come home and I never work at home.

Andrew Hellmich: So that sounds really nice. So you don't even bring your laptop home to work at night?

Kate MacPherson: No, well, I have a laptop at home that I'm talking to you on now.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kate MacPherson: I never do work on it. I do that. I do emails and stuff, but I never actually do photography processing or anything like that.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. Okay, and then when you, when you had that little stage, or that stage in between, when you're in the cafes, how is that? Was that a good way to go?

Kate MacPherson: Well, it was sort of, I mean, at first the open plan office, it didn't have a meeting room. We've since built that. So that's why I went to cafes, because I was in town and there were cafes. Wellington has heaps of cafes, and it just seemed like the easiest and most practical way to do things. And it seemed to work fine, you know, I worried about that for a start. I thought I might be unprofessional or, you know, but it seemed to be fine.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so how long did you do the cafe thing for?

Kate MacPherson: Um, probably about a year.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you would have that pretty much down pat, and that's not something that I've never done. So, you know, towards the end of that year, when you had things fine-tuned. How did that work? Did you, just talk me through that, that meeting, when you first meet the couple.

Kate MacPherson: When you first meet the couple, what it's really informal, I pretty much just have a chat to them about their wedding, and I bring a couple of books of weddings that I've shot, and I show them those books. But mostly we're just chatting about their wedding and getting a vibe. You know, they're getting a measure of me and I'm, you know, finding out what their weddings all about, and if we're good, if we're a good match, generally.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay. But so, so you pick the cafe?

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, often I pick the cafe.

Andrew Hellmich: And then you would get there, say, five or 10 minutes before you'd expect them to arrive, I imagine.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And then so that would come to you, or, you know, you'd sort of, "Hi, I'm over here.", sort of thing. Would you have a briefcase with you with albums, or would they already be on the table?

Kate MacPherson: Goodness, no, way, I don't actually know. I think I just have them with me, and they probably are on the table. It's an interesting question, actually, when I, when I do meet them, I describe myself so that they know who they're looking for. You know, I'm, you know, average sort of height, or a bit shorter than average, and I've got long, dark hair with a fringe and freckles, and they tend to find me pretty quickly.

Andrew Hellmich: So you didn't have the in the lucky cardigan in red or something?

Kate MacPherson: No, because I don't know what I'm wearing when I make the meeting.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, so you meet them and then, you know, is it, "Can I buy your coffee?" Or is it just sit down and straight to business?

Kate MacPherson: No, no, I always offer to buy them a coffee, for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: And lunch too or is it just a coffee?

Kate MacPherson: No, it's always just a coffee, yeah. Lunch is not really, it's not really going to work because there's, you know, photo books and it's, yeah, it's all about messy, and they don't want to, say we don't click. I don't want them to feel obliged to have to sit there and have lunch with me. It's yeah, it's always a coffee, and I always offer to pay. And then occasionally they will insist on paying, and you know, that's great, but mostly I'll insist on paying.

Andrew Hellmich: When you pick the cafes, did you let the cafe owner know that you know you're going to be there as a business meeting if you always went back to the same cafe?

Kate MacPherson: No, I don't. I don't let them know, because business meetings happen in cafes all the time, and it's usually just me and them. So it's, you know, really informal sort of thing. But there is a cafe that is one of my favorites that's sort of close by where I work, and I know the owner, so I have, she knows that I go there for meetings, and, you know, she thinks it's great. So that's been, that's been nice, and it's quite, was relatively quiet. It's not a really busy cafe, okay, so it's kind of a nice environment.

Andrew Hellmich: Did you ever show your images then on laptop or iPads and things like that, or only ever tactile? Sort of real albums and books?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, only ever, only ever real albums and books.

Andrew Hellmich: If you had, if you had to leave your space now, is that something you would go back to before you would say, work at home?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah. Yep, it is.

Andrew Hellmich: So it was good. It worked well.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, I think it was fine, yeah, I never had anyone, you know, not booked me for that reason. I don't think, well, I guess I wouldn't know, but it seems fine to me to do that.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, no, that's cool. I mean, I know other photographers do, do it, something that I've never done. I've also know that some photographers will go to the client's house, again I've done that once, and I vowed never, ever to do that again. That was horrible.

Kate MacPherson: Oh, really what happened?

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, it just, they controlled the whole meeting. It was, it was their show instead of my show. And as you know, they had to get up to do something, they would just go and do it. I was there. They felt very comfortable, and I felt out of place. I think a cafe would be a much better solution if I was struggling for space.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, well, I guess it's a neutral territory, really, isn't it?

Andrew Hellmich: It is, yeah, it is. So what will you do? First of all, what are you expecting now, with a baby coming, how's business going to change for you? What preparations are you making for next year?

Kate MacPherson: Well, that's a very good question. I think I've, I need a bit of a change. So for me, this is really good timing. I've only booked, I've, I had booked a number of weddings, and I've handed them all over to other photographers because I won't be able to shoot at the end of this year. My baby is due in October, so I've taken all of October, November, December off, and then I've only booked maybe three or four weddings for the summer. And I've just, I've left it at that. I've turned all the rest away. Or I've actually recommended them to other people, because I just need a wee break to reevaluate and decide what the next step is.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay and then, so what are you expecting after that, just to return back to normal the following season? Or you just going to sort of suss it out?

Kate MacPherson: No, I don't, I hope not to return, actually, to the way things were, because 10 or 11 years shooting weddings, I think I don't want to do that for another 10 or 11 years. I need a new challenge. I need to do something else. And yeah, I don't quite know what that is yet. I'll probably shoot a few weddings here and there, but I certainly don't think I'll be a full time wedding photographer after the baby's born. I mean, never say never. We just don't know what's going to happen, do we? But at the moment, the plan is to maybe think of other options.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so would this be the perfect chance to double your prices again?

Kate MacPherson: Hmm, probably not. Um, yeah, I feel really comfortable with my pricing at the moment, and I know often I've heard lots of amazing salespeople say, you know, "When you're comfortable, it's time to put them up." But I feel like it's a, yeah, it's sitting well with me. And I feel like if I charge too much more, I might feel out of my depth, and especially if I'm taking a bit of time off. So yeah, probably won't be putting them up too much more. I'd say I'd rather look at, look around for other things to do and sort of ease my way out that way.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, well, so, well, how did you get to the prices that you're charging now?

Kate MacPherson: Well, they have been the same for about three or four years now, and they, that was just going up in increments and then hitting a level where I think, "Okay, I'm getting, I'm getting the work, but I'm not turning away heaps of work at all", you know. So to me, that was quite a good place to sit.

Andrew Hellmich: And are you, are you expensive for your area?

Kate MacPherson: I think I'm probably in the upper region. I'm not sure I'd be the most expensive, but yeah, I probably am in the upper, upper quarter, for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and people know that when they contact you because you've got that starting price on your website.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah. And actually, that's a good point. Um, I think by having a price that's a little bit more than most, it means that you, the people who contact me to shoot their wedding are a bit more serious. Yeah, they're not sort of price shopping so much. They've really thought about it and gone, okay, well, we if we're going to go to the effort of emailing and meeting, then you know clearly that they find something that they can respond to.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay.

Kate MacPherson: We were on a good starting level, whereas, I think when I was a bit cheaper, you got a lot of people, well, I got a lot of people who were price shopping, and they'd be visiting four or five photographers, and that can be really time consuming to meet a whole lot of people. So now I tend to meet less people, but I have a probably a higher hit rate of bookings.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that makes sense. That's great. And that's all because you think, because you've got that starting price list on the website?

Kate MacPherson: I think so, yeah, it's a bit of a guess. I mean, it's all a bit of a guessing game, isn't it?

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Kate MacPherson: So that's the reason I've put it there anyway.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and I just want to ask you just a couple more questions about that, the digital stuff, and then we'll get into these 10 quick questions. You mentioned a few times that your website is sort, what, what you think is bringing you the business and the blog. You doing something special there. Do you think like you? How many images are you blogging? And is it every wedding?

Kate MacPherson: It's definitely not every wedding. No.

Andrew Hellmich: How do you choose?

Kate MacPherson: I choose based on a few different things. I mean, I generally the weddings I blog. I really like the, you know, lots of things about them, the people, their style, their vibe, and I feel like a, you know, did a good job. So they're the ones that get blogged, and the ones that don't so much are more about perhaps their style is not quite the same vibe as me maybe.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're putting images on there that you would like to shoot in future weddings.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, I am. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, that makes sense.

Kate MacPherson: And often, that often, those choices are based on emotions that I've captured, or, you know, not, not so much, what color the flowers were, anything like that, because, you know, this doesn't interest me so much, but more about the things that happened and whether I was there to capture them, sort of thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So how many images do you blog?

Kate MacPherson: It's a bit different for each wedding, but I suppose is it? Gosh, I guess there's an average of, a bit of a guess, maybe 70.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so quite a lot.

Kate MacPherson: 50-70, something like that. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And then do you do the same? We haven't really talked about Facebook, but you do the same thing with Facebook?

Kate MacPherson: Yes, and I'm no expert on Facebook.

Andrew Hellmich: So you don't, that's not a big part of the business?

Kate MacPherson: No, I don't really, yeah, I wish I knew more, actually. Yeah, I definitely am no expert, and I couldn't give any advice on Facebook, but I tend to just, I blog. If I blog, then I'll put that on Facebook, and I'll put the odd image up on Facebook and, you know, the odd thing that I like. But yeah, I'm certainly no leader when it comes to Facebook, that's for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: So you really do know then that your weddings are coming from word of mouth and from your website. I mean, things you're working on.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, that's right.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, that's great. So it's obviously working well, so listeners, if you want to check out a website, you got to check out Kate's, because it's obviously working.

Kate MacPherson: Well, I'm not like the, you know, you hear the international photographers who turn away heaps of bookings. I'm definitely not at that level, for sure. But, you know, I always get 20-25, bookings, and I'm happy with that. So, you know, don't know if that's good or bad or what it's just..

Andrew Hellmich: If you're ,if you're happy with it, then it's good, isn't it?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, that's right, yeah. Well, that's another thing. I mean, I when I burnt out a few years ago, I did take a really hard look at how I wanted to live, and, you know, how, how I wanted to be, and making that call with that. You know, I needed way more work balance. Work life balance was instrumental in me, helping me make the decisions that I did.

Andrew Hellmich: So what, did you say you burnt out? I mean, when you were doing, when you were doing too many weddings and not charging enough?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So you step back from that's when you put your prices up and change things.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, I changed a lot of things. Yeah, I put my prices up. I streamlined a whole lot of things, because before then, I was offering too many products, I think. And I mean, I was running all over town getting this, getting this bound, getting this printed, you know. And I just realized I was wasting so much time, you know, with the logistics of things, so I cut most of that out, and now it's just the files and the coffee books.

Andrew Hellmich: So what else did you have before?

Kate MacPherson: Before I did a proof album and I did prints and I did, yeah, different things that just took up too much time to produce.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so obviously, bookings didn't drop when you offered less.

Kate MacPherson: No, that's right, which was surprising to me. You know, at the time, I was, of course, worried that they would, but it seems I, like I, I kind of thought, what would I want if I was getting married and I just want good quality photographs, I wouldn't really care so much about all the products.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you think that's why so many couples are happy just with the digital files these days?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, that's right, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. It's annoying.

Kate MacPherson: Annoying, you reckon.

Andrew Hellmich: I'd much rather see an album go with every single client.

Kate MacPherson: Oh yeah, the albums. I mean, I offer the coffee box, the albums, for sure, but the other extra things, yeah, for me, for me, I probably wouldn't want all those things if I was getting married. I just want the files and a nice book.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, true, yeah. I would be happy with that too, for sure.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, you know, because I know lots of photographers offer discs of slideshows and special frame prints and certain folio boxes of prints. And I think that's great, because there's certainly people out there who love that sort of stuff. It's just not what I would want. And I guess I want to attract the same sort of people that I would, you know, people that like what I like. So perhaps that's worked in my favor. Again, it's a bit of a guess.

Andrew Hellmich: I see there's a definite flow here. I'm talking dream run and a nice flow. But you keep saying it hasn't been so easy.

Kate MacPherson: No. Well, I haven't made a huge amount of money, you know? I know I could potentially, if I was into the whole upsell and I was into the whole, you know, bit more clever about marketing, and I probably could do a whole lot different and make more money, but I'm happy not making heaps of money. I make enough. It's um, and, you know, I just decided that's how I wanted to live. I don't want to struggle, but I don't. I'm not money focused. So for me, that's okay.

Andrew Hellmich: So lifestyle is good?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, I think my lifestyle has finally reached a point where it is quite good.

Kate MacPherson: How many days a week do you work really?

Kate MacPherson: Well in summer, I probably work six days a week, but the rest of the year would be five days. And those days aren't long days over winter, they're, you know, 9:30 to five over winter.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you still working pretty hard?

Kate MacPherson: Well, yeah. But, you know, I am working for myself. So I can, you know, take a couple hours off and go and watch a movie or whatever I decide to do. You know, it's not, um, it's certainly not like when I burnt out and I was shooting too many weddings. It wasn't, you know, I was working late often, all the time, and not getting enough sleep. And, yeah, that's way more balanced than that. .

Andrew Hellmich: That's cool. Now, are you happy to tackle these 10 quick questions?

Kate MacPherson: Yes, sure.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, let's go 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, Go! Canon or Nikon?

Kate MacPherson: Canon.

Andrew Hellmich: What was your first ever camera?

Kate MacPherson: It was a film, Canon.

Andrew Hellmich: That's all right. What's your favorite lens now and why?

Kate MacPherson: I've always liked the 50 mil 1.2, just from the just for the quality that of the imagery that I get from it.

Kate MacPherson: So is that your go to lens at a wedding?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, probably. Is that the 50 and the 24.

Andrew Hellmich: The 24..

Kate MacPherson: 1.4

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. Do you shoot JPEG or RAW?

Kate MacPherson: RAW

Andrew Hellmich: What do you think? I probably know the answer this one already. What do you think was the biggest breakthrough in your business? When did things sort of start? Sort of start to click,?

Kate MacPherson: Actually, well, after systemizing and streamlining things, after burning out, but also when I got a new blog and a new brand in 2010, I think it was that was, that was really good. It made a change to things for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: What do you mean by new brand?

Kate MacPherson: So I got a, I had really good friends who, we did a bit of a swap. I did photography, and they, they Hannah did a logo for me, and Thomas built a website, and we, and I did, you know, photographed some stuff for them, and it was a great swap. And I feel like they really got me, and they got a logo that I thought suited me, and then built my website, and that was a different look and feel that I thought suited my photos, and I got really good feedback from it, and I think that, you know, that's when I sort of put my prices up to what they are now.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, because I would imagine, I don't know for sure. I'm only guessing. If I would imagine that most photographers would do their own logo.

Kate MacPherson: I'd say, you'd be absolutely right, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So what made you go to someone else to do this instead of doing it yourself?

Kate MacPherson: Well, I had always done it myself, and I, I'm not an expert designer, so and I, and Hannah is, and I, you know, I had the opportunity to do this swap, and so I thought, "Gosh, why not get someone who's far better at it than I am to do it?"

Andrew Hellmich: And it paid off.

Kate MacPherson: I think so.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome

Kate MacPherson: I mean, yeah, I think she did a good job. I think I don't mind my logo. It probably needs an update in a wee while.

Andrew Hellmich: But, yeah, no, I think, but if that was, that was the turning point. That's when, you know, the catalyst for you putting your prices up. You said it was a whole new look. So that's great.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, yeah. And blogging, and blogging, I hadn't blogged before. Then I just had a sort of a website built in flash, so that had to change as well. So yeah, I think blogging has been good too.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, well, this might lead into this next question. So if you had to start over today with the same knowledge that you have today. What would you do now? Would you do different?

Kate MacPherson: I'd probably be a lot more concerned with the style from early on and make sure that I headed down that track, like I was saying before about the guy, Ollie Sanson, who I really admire and think has done a great job, but he's got quite a dark, lovely style, and he sort of doesn't compromise too much on that. I think I'd be a bit more conscious about that now and create more of a style and a brand right from the get go, rather than for me, it sort of evolved more organically.

Andrew Hellmich: But do you think you'd be able to sort of just pick a look or a style? I mean, that is something that develops, isn't it?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah. That's a good point. I think some people know their vision right from the start, and others it develops over time for sure. Yeah, Perhaps you're right. Perhaps it is something that just has to take its natural course. And he's one of the lucky ones who knows right from the start. But I'd probably be more conscious about it right from the start.

Andrew Hellmich: What's the benefit of having that style sort of ingrained in your look and your logo and your brand from the start. How does that change things?

Kate MacPherson: Well, I think it just sets you apart from everybody else. And now there's so many photographers out there, I think it's important. You really do need to set yourself apart. You know, there's 100 million photographers out there. Not a 100 million but..

Andrew Hellmich: It feels like it.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, it does someplace, isn't it? And there's a whole lot of photography that looks really same, same. And I, you know, I've been thinking lately, I need to sort of reevaluate and step up a little bit as well, because I need to find it, you know, more of a point of difference. I think photographers need to be more conscious of that is, you know, time goes on. You got to find your, find a little unique place, somewhere. And people respond to that, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I agree. All right, let's keep going here. What software do you use for your batching, editing, renaming and renumbering?

Andrew Hellmich: Lightroom.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you do you watch what other photographers are doing? Or do you keep to yourself?

Kate MacPherson: I do. I used to a lot more. I still keep into you know, keep looking at blogs of people who I, whose work I admire every now and then, but I don't, I don't log on all the time like I used to, for sure. It just like, I don't use Facebook that great, you know that well, but I think that's contributed to my work life balance a bit better than it used to be. You know, I used to be a bit more obsessed about that sort of thing, and it's better now that I'm not.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you think it's more helpful to develop your own style by not looking at other people's work?

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, although you have to, you have to kind of know what's going on, don't you? So to cut yourself off completely might be a bit of a mistake. It's good to be inspired, for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay.

Kate MacPherson: Just not over inspired.

Andrew Hellmich: To the point where you're copying.

Kate MacPherson: Yes, that's right to the point where you're copying. I mean, copying is one of those things that I feel strongly about, because I found myself copying once, and I, and I felt really sick about it, and I have sort of made a conscious effort to try not to do that again. You know, I feel awful, and it's not cool. So, yeah, to try not, you know, to not oversaturate myself with too many other people's work is, you know, it's great.

Andrew Hellmich: What do you wear when you're shooting weddings? Do you have a uniform or anything?

Kate MacPherson: No, no uniform. Just, I often wear pants because I move around quite a lot, and I'm letters and stuff, and I don't want to have to worry about my dress, but every now and then I want to dress if it's been really hot.

Andrew Hellmich: So are you like every other photographer with sort of black pants, blacktop, black jumper?

Kate MacPherson: Yes, I think so, just one of the many.

Andrew Hellmich: This is the first time I've asked this question. And I thought, I wonder if everyone's just gonna say black.

Kate MacPherson: Well, the reason I often we do wear black or darker colors is because I work with a videographer once, and she was saying she really hated it when photographers wore bright clothing because they were really obvious in all her shots. So that's part of the reason I thought, you know, it's a bit disrespectful of me to wear bright colors and be really obvious. So I kind of like to blend in the background as much as I can. And you know that colors help.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And just a blouse for a top normally?

Kate MacPherson: No, I was just skinny pants and a in a little singlet, black singlet.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Kate MacPherson: I wear that quite a lot, because often it's hot in the summer.

Andrew Hellmich: Say it'll be so good for a guy to be able to wear a singlet to some weddings. Can't really do it.

Kate MacPherson: Some people probably go, I don't know.

Andrew Hellmich: You might stand that even more in those videos.

Kate MacPherson: Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah, what is good? Because you can sort of look like you're a bit of a, you know, a guest, in a way, as a girl, and it's, um, it's kind of acceptable.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, all right. Last one here, Kate, what is your most embarrassing photography moment or stuff up that you're happy to share?

Kate MacPherson: Well, I remember a few years ago. It's quite a few years ago now, I shoot a wedding, and afterwards the couple came back and said, "Oh yeah, everything's great. We love it. But there is one thing we just wanted to mention. When you were shooting the ceremony, when you bent down in the middle of the aisle, everybody could see your bright pink G string poking out over your pants", and I was absolutely mortified. That's the absolute last look that you want. And since then, I've always worn really big black knickers. But I, yeah, it's a good lesson. I'm really pleased she told me, because how would I have known? But, oh, embarrassing.

Andrew Hellmich: I'd love to say that I can understand exactly where you coming from, but I honestly can't.

Kate MacPherson: No, it wasn't a good moment. It was, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Classic, classic. Kate, it's been an absolute pleasure. I want to say, thanks so much for sharing so much with us today. Can you let everyone know where they can find you?

Kate MacPherson: Oh, my website is katemcpherson.com.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and you're also on Facebook, but you may not be so active, there is that, right?

Kate MacPherson: Well, yeah, I try, but yeah, I'm not that. I'm not the best Facebooker, but I do, you know, I post from time to time, but the links are on my website.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. And have you got, have you got one last tip for up and coming photographers? What would you say to them that want to sort of, you know, get into this wedding thing and, you know, really make their mark and be successful?

Kate MacPherson: I'd say, just get out and do it like passion and enthusiasm goes a really long way. And if you can refine a style that's a bonus. Yeah, go for it.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. Kate. Thanks very much.

Kate MacPherson: Thanks for having me.

 
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