007: Ben Newnam – Wedding Photography Success through Honesty, Transparency & Learning

007: Ben Newnam – Wedding Photography Success through Honesty, Transparency & Learning

Andrew Hellmich: All right, I'm really excited to have Ben Newnam on the podcast tonight for a couple of reasons. The first time being, he's been a wedding photographer for more than 20 years, and photography is his sole income. And he also lives in a really nice part of the world, so he must be doing pretty well at this photography thing. And I also know that his clients absolutely love him. I've just, I've read some of the reviews and the comments that Ben gets a genuine 'We love you and everything you do' sort of comments like you just know that they're coming from the heart. The other thing about Ben, he always sounds so excited about weddings. And when I when I talk to him about them, you can actually hear it in his voice that he's actually excited about going to photograph these weddings, even though he's shot over a thousand weddings, or must be close to a thousand now, anyway. And the other thing about Ben is he has a really distinct style. And I know that whether you love or hate a style of photography, I believe there's a definite pattern between photographers that are successful and those that have their own style. And I know that Ben has a really distinct style. So I want to, in this interview, find out how Ben developed the style, and also what the real secret is to his success. So Ben, welcome to the podcast, mate.

Ben Newnam: Thanks very much, Andrew, thanks. Good to be back.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it's great to have you on again. Now, I was right, there wasn't it? You've been shooting for over 20 years, and I think is it coming up to thousand weddings, or you've done over a thousand?

Ben Newnam: It's probably, I'm thinking about eight to 900 somewhere between there. I sort of stopped counting at 500 so..

Andrew Hellmich: You're pretty experienced sort of.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, yeah, you could say that, I've done a few. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, do you want to tell listeners a little bit about where you live? They've got an idea of sort of the area that you service. And I guess the demographic.

Ben Newnam: Okay, well, I service pretty much everywhere in Sydney, even beyond. But I live in Berowra Heights. I don't know if you know that, beautiful part of the world, pretty close to yourself, sort of just as far north as Sydney as you can go really, before you sort of hit the central coast. So it's in a suburb called Berowra Heights. Yeah, I get a few from Berowra Heights, but it's really get a lot of it from everywhere, you know, all my weddings, you know, because a lot of it's from word of mouth, and, you know, a lot lots comes from, you know, Google searches and that sort of thing. So, yeah, it's really everywhere. So it's not like I just service one part and that's it. You know, you just take it, work wherever you can get it really.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure.

Ben Newnam: And whoever likes your work really, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. I want to get back into the style of your photography and the way you sort of book these weddings soon. But can I just go back to the beginning, Ben, how did you actually get started in photography. Was it something you've always done?

Ben Newnam: Pretty much year 11, that they had, like a selective group, I guess you could say, actually, it was the year before they actually counted it as part of the HSC. You know, it went towards your HSC. So even though I got 100% for photography, it didn't count towards my HSC, so it was really anything I was good at, and really the only thing I did love, so I thought I'd just play to my strengths. And, yeah, this is, I just kept working at it. And, you know, just go out every night, just shooting in the city and that sort of thing. You know, anyone who's willing to, you know, be a model for me. I'd, you know, take them up on the offer.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. So, yeah. So how did you say from year 11 and 12, you did photography for school and to get mark, so, and obviously, you're shooting in your spare time as well. So when did you shoot your first wedding?

Ben Newnam: I was about 19 years old, straight out of school. It was my next door neighbor actually got me the job. It was for a couple that had actually been married, you know, previously to other people. So they didn't want anything big and elaborate. So, you know, it was, I just charged them $200 and went out for about five hours. And, yeah, and that's where I just got myself a little portfolio from that and then I, from memory, I think I just put a little ad in the Yellow Pages and that's when it all really started. That was back when the Yellow Pages, you know, was the main form of advertising. So, you know, it was back in those days, is quite expensive even for a little ad. So it was a bit of a risk, you know, I was a bit nervous of putting, you know, spending that much money and, yeah, just to see how it went. You know, I guess when I first started, I didn't really know what I was getting myself into, because I wasn't really set up for photography, like I didn't really have like albums to show or anything like that. I just had a few frame prints, and at the stage I didn't, like, I went over and, you know, she wanted to know my price list, and I got it all wrong. I didn't even know that off by heart. So, you know, it was a big learning curve. So you know, you learn pretty quick from when you're making mistakes. And yeah, so, but you know, 23 years later, and it's sort of all fallen into place.

Andrew Hellmich: So when you went and did that very first wedding, like, how, did you have any idea about posing and the sort of shots that you expected to get, or had you been out with another wedding photographer, or you really were just winging it?

Ben Newnam: I was winging it. Totally winging it, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Were you scared?

Ben Newnam: Oh yeah, you could say that, pretty petrified. But they're a really nice couple. They were probably in their late 50s to 60s, so you know, you didn't have the pressure of a first time wedding. They just wanted something basic, so just did basic poses. I even used, what do you call it, monoblocks, you know, I mean by that, you know, like studio strobing?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah.

Ben Newnam: So, you know, I used their power supply and had the umbrellas outdoors. And, you know, it's way over the top, must have looked professional. But looking back, I think, why did I do that? Because, you know, to set it up took 10 minutes, and then another 10 minutes to pack it away. And, yeah, when you can get the same sort of thing these days in just a normal strobe flash with an umbrella set up, so.

Andrew Hellmich: It's funny. It's funny to say that, I actually did a seminar years and years ago when I first started. And at that seminar, I can't remember who the photographer was. She was from Queensland, but she showed me how she is a soft box to photograph the bride at home. And so the next wedding, I'm off there with my strobes as well. I'm a couple of months later, I'm thinking, what am I doing?

Ben Newnam: Yeah, so all this equipment you got to carry around.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: And you can't carry that on the shoot, so you got to leave it in your car in the baking hot sun and yeah, it's yeah. I soon sold them pretty quick.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So have you? Have you actually ever had another job as a being in photography from school right until now?

Ben Newnam: Straight out of school, I went and worked as a British laborer. But other than that, I worked in a mini lab for, you know, 15 years. So when I first started out, I started out sort of doing the mini lab, plus weddings on the side. And then one day that they just folded, you know, their business went bankrupt. We're not bankrupt, but they just, you know, it was at the time when mini labs were sort of dying, you know. And so, of course, you know, I got the boot, so to speak, and that was probably the best thing that ever happened, really, because I'd probably still be there today. And, you know, just, I just didn't have that what's the word? I'm trying to think of just that confidence to go out on my own. And you know, you know, I did get very sick just from worry, just going out on my own, but as soon as I did, it was, yeah, that's when the work started to really come because I could just focus, focus 100% on the on the weddings.

Andrew Hellmich: So you really needed that push just to sort of get you going.

Ben Newnam: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: And then that was it. You're off and running.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, I guess some people need a push, like myself, and some people have just got it born in them, you know, to do that. So yeah. And I'm just the type that needs to push. I guess

Andrew Hellmich: So were you, were you married at that stage already?

Ben Newnam: No, no, I've only been married, what is it, five? Oh, no, how's, my son's six years old? So yeah, six years.

Andrew Hellmich: You're gonna be in trouble when your wife listens back to this.

Ben Newnam: Well, she actually proposed to me.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that right?

Ben Newnam: That's right. You got sick of waiting 14 years.

Andrew Hellmich: So 14 years you were together but you'd be your own worst client.

Ben Newnam: I think I would, absolutely. I think most photographers would be, yeah?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, you're right. So what about your style? I mean, say so you really haven't been taught by anyone else. You've gone out on your own right from school, and haven't had any sort of it doesn't sound like you've had any formal training. So did you? Did you learn by looking at other websites and blogs, or did you just find your own style and go with it?

Ben Newnam: Exactly. That's why you do learn by, yeah, I did do a TAFE course, a two year TAFE course. I guess the good thing about doing the TAFE course was that it was very intense, and it made, they made you do an assignment every week, which you had to complete every week. So much like weddings, you know, you got an assignment to do, you got to do, you know, get everything done within the week. So that was good. In that way, they taught me a lot about the elements and that sort of thing. Things that I subconsciously knew, but I didn't know how to describe it, you know, like, I could see why an image looked good, but I couldn't describe why it looked and I guess TAFE just helped explain that, really. So, yeah, but that was two years, but most of it was just learning, looking at people's photos and just trying to copy that, and just getting as much information as I could from the internet, and just going out and shooting. That's the only way you can do it, is just going out shooting.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: You can read books till you're blue in the face, but unless you actually do it, you're not really learning.

Andrew Hellmich: So would you, would you actually see, say, a photo or two during the week, or a few or website, you think so I really like those photos, and then go and try and emulate that, that exact look, or would you just..

Ben Newnam: Absolutely do it. Yeah. Sorry. Go.

Andrew Hellmich: I was just going to say then, so from then, so once you've copied all these other photographers over the, over the space of years, I guess, and then what happens is your, does your own style then slowly develop, because you wouldn't be doing that anymore, I imagine.

Ben Newnam: You do. I'm always looking at other people's photos, just seeing what they do. You know, there's, I guess, whatever, whatever attracts me. I guess I liked the Jerry Ghionis style, that, you know, I kind of really liked his style, and so I try to emulate a little bit of his stuff. I'm not so keen on the latest type of craze. You know, where they get people just to stand next to each other, holding hands, looking blankly. Do you know that look?

Andrew Hellmich: You're looking very forlorn and lost, almost.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, where they just holding hands, looking up at the sky or something. You know, that doesn't do it for me, because, you know, I don't see the elements of good photography there. You know, it's got to have, it's got to have all the elements of what good photography is like a center of interest, good tones, you know, well printed, you know, well exposed, good composition, you know, somewhere where there's actual thought gone behind the image to create the image and I guess the biggest, the biggest change for me as a photographer is the studio. What I call a strobe, outdoors with a flash, where you can make it look like that real high fashion, stylized look.

Andrew Hellmich: So off-camera flash, that sort of look?

Ben Newnam: Off camera flash, that's the one. Yeah, it's funny. I didn't even it's called that.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool, dude. That doesn't matter. That's fine. So you use a fair bit of that on your shoots?

Ben Newnam: I do quite whenever I need it, like, especially if it's bright and sunny, and you can't find much shade, I'll use that.

Andrew Hellmich: So what, you'll backlight the subjects, and then use strobe?

Ben Newnam: Yes, I'll backlight the subject generally with the sun and strobe them with an umbrella from the front.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And who do you have holding that? Or do you have an assistant with you? Or you get someone in the bridal party?

Ben Newnam: You get one of the bridal party, yeah, because they're, you know, usually more than happy to help out. And, you know, it saves the bride and groom on hiring a second assistant, so, you know, and then it gets the bridal party involved and that sort of thing. So, yeah, it's a good thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. And I'll do the same for sure. So I don't usually use an umbrella when I'm doing that. So, do you have that on a stand, or you just have them hold the flash head with a brolly, or?

Ben Newnam: Well, I've got, like, a little, you can, like, fit it all together so it holds the flash, holds the umbrella all in, like a, what do you call it? Like, just like a rod, really.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh yeah.

Ben Newnam: And you can extend the rod, or, you know, as long as you need, and, yeah, just get them to hold that, if it's shady, what I'll usually do is have them backlit, like, use the strobe as a backlit, and just use the nice shade as the main light on their face.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure.

Ben Newnam: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Are you using a shoot-through umbrella? Are you using, your bouncing off your silver or?

Ben Newnam: Shoot-through

Andrew Hellmich: So, clear, a white umbrella opaque.

Ben Newnam: It just works so much easier because you're not actually, like when you're holding an umbrella, otherwise, the person holding the umbrella can't really see what's going on.

Andrew Hellmich: Yep.

Ben Newnam: Does that make sense? Yes, just like, because, because the umbrella is like, sticking in their head, whereas, if you shoot through, it's for the actual umbrella is extended away from them, not into them.

Andrew Hellmich: Yep, sure.

Ben Newnam: Because if you got to bounce it back, you know, if you do a bounce back umbrella and not a shoot through, the umbrella has got to be pointing at the person's face who's actually holding it, which can be quite tricky, especially someone with short arms.

Andrew Hellmich: I'd be hopeless. So let me go back to your style then Ben, because when I look at your images on your website, and you know, you've got a really distinct look there, and it, it's almost like that sort of award print quality with a contrast, the lots of like, saturated colors, really dramatic. So are those? Are those images like that because that's what your clients like, or that's because that's the way you like your images to look?

Ben Newnam: Well, that's the way I like, the way I like to shoot. And I heard a good saying the other day, "Shoot what you love and find people who love what you shoot."

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome.

Ben Newnam: Something like that.

Andrew Hellmich: I love that.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, something like that. It was from another photographer. I thought, yeah, that's the sort of way I shoot.

Andrew Hellmich: So I think they're the successful photographers. They're the ones that are shooting the way they want to shoot, and people are booking them for that. I think they're the guys that are standing out.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: So your client..

Ben Newnam: That's what you're good at, too.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's right, yeah. So your clients, are they actually? Are they taking home? Are they buying those style of images with that sort of look?

Ben Newnam: Do that, do you mean, like, do people get that sort of look at every wedding?

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, I can see that's your style and to me, so I would, I would use those style of images, maybe for if I'm entering a print competition, and I don't do much of that style of thing for my actual clients. So I guess the question is, do your clients, do you supply your clients with that style of print, with that coloring?

Ben Newnam: Yes, absolutely. Yep.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Ben Newnam: Yeah. Well, what they do get is all the, all their images on, like, a USB and high res, so that they get all their as natural looking as possible, so they get all that in one folder. Then I go through my favorite ones, like, you know, 100 or so, and then I'll do something a little bit artistic, like, you know, like, like you're talking about before, you know, like, sort of my style in inverted commas, and they, you know, I'll touch up those 100 in that sort of style and give that to the clients as well. So, yeah, and then they can get prints.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you think is that why they're booking you Ben, because they love that style too?

Ben Newnam: I'd say so, yeah, it's probably a combination of everything, you know, it's, it's obviously the photography, but a lot of it has to do with your personality, too. Yeah, you've got to be able to be adaptable on the day without being, you know, phased, you know, like, there's where things have gone wrong, like, like I did, I did a wedding the other day, and they're supposed to have it out at West Head, in this beautiful location, sort of north of Sydney.

Andrew Hellmich: It's the bushland area, isn't it?

Ben Newnam: In the bushland area, but they had the bushfire, so it all had to everything was changed, like with within, you know, two hours of the actual ceremony having to take place. So you could imagine logistics of trying to get the guests there, and so, you know, it's being able to stay cool under pressure, and people can see that, and still, you know, being enthusiastic about what you do on the day. And, you know, like, I'm always doing, like, commando roles, and that's, you know, getting down and dirty, sort of, like I'll get in the ocean if I have to get a nice shot across the water.

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome. So with that wedding the other day, was there actually a bushfire on the day of the wedding?

Ben Newnam: Yes, basically the roads were all cut-off, so they couldn't get to where they were going to get married. So they had to get married at the reception that they were getting, having the reception at.

Andrew Hellmich: So, everything has changed around.

Ben Newnam: Everything within two hours. So, you know, they had to have people at the, you know, the checkpoint where, you know, where you get, because it's like a, what do they call it? A park?

Andrew Hellmich: National Park

Ben Newnam: National Park. So they had to have someone there telling the guests where to, that, you know, the wedding is going to be back at the reception, so yeah, and of course, so everything got put back. And, you know, the bride and groom were more worried about that than getting the shots. So, you know, you've got to try and keep it light hearted and still get the shots. You know, you still got to get the shots, because at the end of the day, they're going to forget all about, you know that they didn't get married there. They're still going to enjoy their wedding day, and they're still going to want their photos. And you know, if you get caught up in the, you know, just distraction of what's happening and not focusing on what you're there to do, you know, you could miss, miss a, you know, quite a bit. So yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: I think, I think there's a big difference there isn't it, between having an experienced photographer then in a situation like that, to having someone that's sort of, you know, in their first year or two, I think they'd be in a real trouble.

Ben Newnam: Exactly, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of photographers who haven't, who haven't seen it all, so they don't know how to react. And then there's other photographers who can only get certain shots, as long as everything's their way, and they're usually like the real pushy photographers who have to do it their way, or that, or they can't get the shot that they need. Whereas, you know, experienced photographers can sort of work in any situation, any lights you know. It, however anyone's feeling and still get a good shot, because they can just sort of adapt, and, you know, adapt the way they're shooting, you know, the way they expose, the way they compose, you know, the way they talk to their client, all that sort of thing. You just make subtle changes to the way you do things, and you just adapt to their circumstances, and that's where a lot of photographers fall short. And then they get, you know, that they've seen pushy. Because I've had a lot of people saying, "Oh, you know, I've had bad experiences because this photographer was so pushy and told us, 'You got to stand there, you got to do this' and all that sort of thing." And, yeah, and I just tell them, "It's because they don't know any other way. You know, the only way that they can get a good shot is by doing that." So, yeah, I think, and like anything in life, you know, like Roger Federer and tennis, he makes everything look easy. You know, I think anyone who can make someone think that's easy, 'I could do it', is good at what they do. So, you know, if you look at someone you know from the front of, from an outsider, I just look like I'm someone who's pointing a camera and shooting, what they're not seeing is all the subtle nuances that take place in the composition exposure tell, you know, talking to people you know, trying to get the best out of them, that sort of thing. Whereas, yeah, anyone can pick up a camera, point it and shoot it, but it's what the subtle nuances that people don't see that make the difference between what I do and, you know, most other photographers.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. What would you say, Ben, to let's say a listener was in their first couple of years of starting their business, and they, you know, they had aspirations to be super successful. They want to be shooting in 20 years’ time, and they haven't got those skills yet. How would you suggest they, you know, that they become that adaptable, great photographer, that you are?

Ben Newnam: Best way. I'd say you have to be keen. Even if you're having a bad day, you still got to just stick with it, fine, because I'm helping this guy out at the moment. You know, I've helped, helped a lot of people out, and they just, they just don't cut it. They, you know, they come along to the first three or four weddings, and then they realize it's not for them. Whereas this, this, this one, this one guy that I'm helping out, Chris, now, and he's just so keen, and he's just so quick to pick up things, and you know, he got, he goes above and beyond. So that's the first thing is you've got to have the keen, keenness, the motivation, and just willing to listen, and then willing to just go out and just do the hard yards. And you've got to want to do it.

Andrew Hellmich: So what about, what about learning how to shoot, sort of in that horrible light or full sun if you haven't got shade, I mean, if you haven't got those perfect conditions that you talked about before? How do they get those skills? How do they learn that? Do you practice at a wedding or do you go?

Ben Newnam: I look at other people's photographs, see how they do it. You know, because some people, like some people look really good in bright, bright sunlight, you know, generally, like your supermodel sort of type look. But you know, who's got beautiful, structured cheekbones, or whatever, look good in, you know, bright sunlight, but not everyone does. So you've got to, if it's bright sunlight, and you know, you don't think this is going to suit somebody, you might go and just use a strobe flash, you know. So you got that beautiful, soft light with a nice glow at the back from the sun.

Andrew Hellmich: So how do you learn that? Ben, did you just have to go and practice, and also?

Ben Newnam: Just got to practice. You just got to know what works. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you? Would you would you suggest that people practice at a wedding or take a take a family member out and go and practice in bad light?

Ben Newnam: Well, another photographer and I was talking about this the other day, and what you got to do is you got to have your safety shots. So you got to have these shots that tried and true, that you know is going to work. So you got to have, you know, a dozen safety shots. You know different poses, you know different angles, and all that sort of thing. So, but, and once you've got those safety ones, and then you can start experimenting even on the wedding day, you know, but, you know, I wouldn't experiment for more than, say, 10 minutes on an actual wedding day.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, but that's enough, isn't it, to sort of progress?

Ben Newnam: Exactly. I mean, you have to, you have to try these things. So, but, yeah, you got to try them. What you can do, also do is just, you know, on your days off, just go out and practice. You know that just find, find a friend and see if you know that they can help you out. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that a cat? Is that a cat I can hear in the background?

Ben Newnam: There's a cat, yeah, I'll just go and put her out, actually.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's fine. Not a problem.

Ben Newnam: Sorry about that.

Andrew Hellmich: No, it's fine. Not a problem.

Ben Newnam: Wife's just putting the young one to bed.

Andrew Hellmich: That's all happening.

Ben Newnam: That's the cat being mother, mother cat.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, I mentioned before about sort of award prints and that style of image that you produce. Now, you're not a member of the AIPP, are you?

Ben Newnam: Now, I used to be, but then we sort of, I guess you could say a little falling out. So, because since I brought in this CDP, you've heard of that, haven't you?

Andrew Hellmich: The continuous, what is it?

Ben Newnam: Development, whatever program,.

Andrew Hellmich: Continuous Development Program.

Ben Newnam: Yeah. It's where you've got to go out and basically, you accrued so many points and to get these points, you've got to go to seminars. And to accrue these points, this is when they accept you, you know, as an accredited photographer. But I only learned, like a couple of weeks ago, that you've only have to be a member for two years, and then you don't have to keep doing that, that you just have to prove that you're learning still, which, yeah, which, I'm not sure how you could do that, but I guess my main gripe with that was, you know, because, because I do like, 50 to 70 weddings a year. So, you know, it's hard for me to get out and go to these seminars.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Ben Newnam: And, you know, I don't get that much time with family. And the time that I do have off from weddings, I do like to spend with family. And, you know, I'm not the type of person who likes going out and socializing with, you know, other photographers and all that sort of thing, you know, not, not because I don't like people or anything. It's just, you know, I just I just like to spend time with the family.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. I totally understand, yeah, if I've got spare time, I don't always want to be at a seminar or a workshop. And sometimes you want to break from the photography.

Ben Newnam: Yeah. And, you know, I feel that my sort of work speaks for itself. And, you know, being in business 20 years, you know, I feel that I'm doing something right. And for all of a sudden them to just spring this, you know, throw a blanket rule over everyone, and then sort of, you know, say that what, you know, one year when you're winning awards, you know, you're accredited photographer, then all of a sudden you're not, you know, it just didn't, it just didn't ring well, with me, that's all.

Andrew Hellmich: Yep, I totally understand. So, yeah, so yeah, so you might, you might come back if they drop this CPD thing?

Ben Newnam: Well, yeah, I only heard the other day that if you had been a member for two years, that you don't have to keep doing the seminars. You just got to keep proving that you're still learning and that sort of thing, which I'm always learning, but I like to do it in my own way. You know? You know, I'm not one for there sitting and listening to somebody talk. I like to do it in my own time. You know, when I'm focused, you know? You know when I feel like doing it, because the seminar might be on a day where I'm having a bad day and I'm not ready to take in that sort of information.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah.

Ben Newnam: So, whereas, you know, you know, I've still got a passion for photography. So why wouldn't I be learning? I'm doing it all the time. I'm always on the internet, learning, looking at other people's photos, seeing how people do business, and that sort of thing. And, yeah, oh, so it was just a little bit of a sour taste.

Andrew Hellmich: Yep. Totally understand. I think, I think, I don't think you're the only one that's yeah, done this, had the same feelings and gone the same way. Let me ask you, so you mentioned 50 to 70 weddings a year, you've been shooting for over 20 years.

Ben Newnam: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, how are you getting these bookings? Because that's phenomenal.

Ben Newnam: Well, a lot of its word of mouth. I'd probably say 70 to 80% is word of mouth.

Andrew Hellmich: And let me just ask. So with the word of mouth, do you have some sort of a like a reward program? If someone recommends you, do they get a gift or anything like that, or they just, they're just recommending you because they like you?

Ben Newnam: Recommend me. Yeah, basically they just recommend me, because, I guess people like to know. I mean, if you recommend someone that does a good job, you get a good feeling that you know you're recommending someone that you trust, and you know you've given, you've passed on information that you know, like now, if you passed on good information and they do a good job for them, that you've recommended, you've got a good feeling that you've passed on information that you've helped somebody. Do you know what I mean?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it does. Yeah for sure. Yep. So..

Ben Newnam: Sorry. Go on.

Andrew Hellmich: No, I was just gonna say, yes, the bulk of your weddings are still coming from word of mouth. And imagine that's as strong as ever, because you've been in business for so long and..

Ben Newnam: That's right, well, it's like a snowball effect, isn't it, really?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: Sort of like you do 70 weddings, and then, you know, you might get sort of, you know, sort of probably 30-40 from just those 70. So then you got 70 plus 30, which is 100 then, yeah, so then it's just sort of snowballing, and so, yeah. And then I just supplement that with a bit of advertising. You know, through you know, SEO, search engines, search engine optimization.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I've actually, I actually Googled 'Sydney wedding photographer or photography', this afternoon, and mate, you're on the first page.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, that's right.

Andrew Hellmich: I mean, for you, that's pretty awesome.

Ben Newnam: No, that took me a while to get there. Well, when I was doing because I actually pay someone to do it. So, yeah, I tried to do it when, you know, by myself, and, you know, just trying to learn about Google and but, you know, it's keeping up with Google is a full time job because they're always changing things. Of, you know how they you know, search the web basically, you know how their robots go out and search the web, so I just pay someone to do that for me.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it's interesting you say that, because so many photographers that I know, that I speak to, they try and be the jack of all trades, you know, and I'm guilty of that too. So I try and do my own SEO. I'm writing lots of articles and, you know, doing different things to try and rank in Google, whereas you sound like you're concentrating on what you do best, which is take photos and then pay someone else to do the other stuff.

Ben Newnam: Yep, you play to your strengths.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's awesome.

Ben Newnam: Like any you know, in a football game, you're not going to get a fullback to do a front rows job. You know, it's or winger, a winger, probably more of a winger.

Andrew Hellmich: So what other things are you doing, apart from the paid SEO and your word of mouth to get, do you do any advertising?

Ben Newnam: Yeah, I work on, you know, one of the wedding directories. I advertise on them. But I'm thinking of just leaving that, because the SEO is just going so well.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay. So you can you monitor, or do you check where your where the inquiries are coming from?

Ben Newnam: They, oh well, I do on my website. I just have a, how did you find me questionnaire? You know, on your contact form.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay.

Ben Newnam: So I say, yeah, I just, some people answer it. Some don't. And, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of people now just writing Google search, or just write Google so..

Andrew Hellmich: So you know it's working.

Ben Newnam: I know the Google's working, yeah. And then you know, most people say, you know, it's from such and such a friend, or, you know, you did my sister's wedding or something like that. Sure, yeah, as long as you're doing a good job on the actual wedding day, you're producing the results. You know, you're being friendly, you know, enthusiastic on the day, you know, you're giving more than expected. So you know you're going above and beyond. I think, I think that's the key, is going above and beyond, because there's so many horror stories, you know, it doesn't, it's not that hard to go above and beyond, really. And as long as you do that, people are going to recommend you. And that's that simple.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. With your SEO, Ben, did you, how did you find the person to do it for you? I mean, I'm getting bombarded with SEO emails.

Ben Newnam: Oh, you do.

Andrew Hellmich: So how did you find the person you're using? And can I ask how much you pay as well?

Ben Newnam: Yeah, it's about 600 a month.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so is that a local firm to Sydney, or is it someone from overseas?

Ben Newnam: Now, what I did was I just went on, found the search sentence, the words that I wanted.

Andrew Hellmich: Right

Ben Newnam: Like the keywords that I wanted, type them in, see who was on top of the list, see who they used, and then went to them.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, that's good idea. That's great. And did it take long? Did it take long to start moving up through the pages?

Ben Newnam: Yeah, it takes, take about a year.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay.

Ben Newnam: So I had to supplement it with other forms of advertising while it was working. But now it's starting to pay dividends. I can sort of ease back on the other forms of advertising.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. So did you, when you first hired this person to do this SEO? Did they say to you that, "Look, Ben, it's probably going to be about a year", or do they say, "No, we should.."

Ben Newnam: Yeah, yeah. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but, you know, it's, it's working now, so that's the main thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So did you? Did you sort of budget then, what did you think I have to book, you know, 20 weddings to make this worthwhile, or I'm gonna, yeah, how did you work out whether it was worth it or not?

Ben Newnam: Well, because I've always got like, 30 or 40 in the pipeline. I know there's always going to be cash there to pay for it.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay.

Ben Newnam: And either way, you know, it's a tax deduction anyway. So you're not really paying sort of 500 - 600 a month. You know what I mean?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Ben Newnam: That 500 a month, you know, you take whatever percentage off for tax, and that's really what you're paying anyway.

Andrew Hellmich: Definitely. So, and what about, what about magazine advertising? Have you tried that? Or you..?

Ben Newnam: I did when it was before the internet, or before the internet really took off. I did, that worked quite well, but it was so expensive, there was like $5,000 for a quarter page ad.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it's nuts. And it's worse in Sydney than where I am.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, because there's just so much more competition.

Andrew Hellmich: So yeah. But the other thing I noticed too, with your website, you actually have your photography prices on the website for your weddings, which is pretty rare.

Ben Newnam: Yes, it is. I like to be just upfront with people, and I think people can see that. Sure there's photographers out there who don't have it, and they can work around that. They can sell around that. But I can't do that. I can't, I'm not a good liar, so to speak. I think people could see through me pretty quick if I, you know, started to pull one on them. So I just try and be upfront, as you know, you know, on the internet, anywhere that I'm advertising, you know, anything that where the client is seeing, I just upfront with them. And it just saves people, you know, the for an analogy, the tire kicker, you know, they you go out and see them, you know, if you don't have your prices, and then I go out and see clients, and then I explain, they go, "Oh, you're a bit more expensive than we thought." You know, but that doesn't happen, because people can see the prices there. And when I, when people do inquire, I always give them a little bit more information about myself, you know, about how the packages are structured and just so there's no misconceptions about what people are, you know. So there's no..

Andrew Hellmich: No surprises.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, know exactly what they're, yeah, what they're getting, really.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So I guess it gets like you said, it weeds out the target is right from the start, and you don't have to waste time and effort on them.

Ben Newnam: Exactly. That's it.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, mate. Also, I did notice that you've got portraits on your website as well. Do you do many portraits? Or is it predominantly weddings?

Ben Newnam: Predominantly weddings. I don't advertise the portraits. It's, portraits really come from weddings. Like if couples have had a family and they want a family portrait, they might give me a ring. Some people will just go to their local shopping center, whatever, to get a portrait, but some people just remember me and just come back. But I don't mind either way, portraits, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Take them or leave them.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, I like doing them. Definitely not as high pressure as weddings. But, yeah, it doesn't bother me either way. If I do a portrait or not.

Andrew Hellmich: You sound like you got this lifestyle thing pretty, pretty down pat, because you sound like you have a really sleek workflow, and I imagine you have a few days off during the week comfortably.

Ben Newnam: Yes, I do, like, when I do a wedding, I'll focus on that wedding for the week. Like, because it takes me about five to six hours to touch up all the images. So if I do two weddings a weekend, you know that's six hours. I mean 12 hours, which, you know, I can spread that over a couple of hours during the week. So, yeah, it's, it's quite good. We deliberately planned our lifestyle that way, that, you know, so I could spend as much time with the kids as possible. Because I think that's a real important, you know, aspect in life. So, you know, like, I take my son every morning, we play tennis. Every morning after school, we play tennis and, you know, that sort of thing, you know, we just spend a lot of time together with my daughter. You know, I'm looking after her during the week. So that's really good. And sort of, you know, I'll touch up the images during the week, you know, in between her going to preschool two days a week, and I'll generally go out and see clients during the evening, when my wife's home, and then she can take over looking after the kids. So sort of, I'll see clients at 7:30 you know, most Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays.

Andrew Hellmich: So the set days are they to go out.

Ben Newnam: Generally, if people can only see me on a Tuesday or Thursday, because that's usually tennis comp.

Andrew Hellmich: Hence the Roger Federer analogy before, your active tennis player.

Ben Newnam: Oh yeah, that's it. How'd you guess?

Andrew Hellmich: My son's just taken up tennis about 12 months ago, and he is just loving it, too.

Ben Newnam: So that's a good, good spot.

Andrew Hellmich: It is. It is.

Ben Newnam: Because it's so sort of like weddings in a way, you're sort of out there on your own, you know, you got to rely on no one else but yourself, you know, I'm not really a team sports fan, because, you know, if something's going to go wrong, I want to, you know, because of me, and if something's going to go right, I want to, it's because of me. Does that make sense?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it does. It does. Yeah, that's good.

Ben Newnam: It sounds like why Kieren Perkins did swimming. That was his reason for doing swimming.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, right.

Ben Newnam: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, I've got one more question for you before we jump into the 10 quick questions section.

Ben Newnam: Sure. Fire away.

Andrew Hellmich: Now, you've been shooting for 20 years, and I, most of the more experienced photographers that I speak to have either couples coming to them or they have a studio, but you're actually going out to see your clients in regards to wedding consultations, aren't you?

Ben Newnam: I do, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that for a reason? Or do you find that converts better? What's your reason for doing that?

Ben Newnam: Number of reasons. One, I live sort of as far north as Sydney as you can get. So if there's someone, sort of a little bit south of the center, might think twice about, should we go out and see him? You know, he's quite a fair way away. Two, then I don't have to have a studio. So I don't have to have the overheads of a studio

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Ben Newnam: So I can just focus on the business, like the actual photography, rather than having to worry about all the things that come with running a studio. So basically, I can focus on the bride and groom, on what they want, rather than focusing what the business needs. You know, I still look after the business, but I guess I look after the bride and groom more, so, because I'm not worried about the business so much, because it's sort of taking care of itself, because it's sort of bare bones, I guess you could say.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah.

Ben Newnam: You know, because I don't have a studio, I don't have overheads with staff to pay, you know, the headaches that would go with that, I could just imagine.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm not saying anything in case any of mine, listen.

Ben Newnam: I'm sure they will listen to. Yeah, I could just imagine, you know, with all the red tape too, that goes with employing people. You know, a lot of staff don't realize what goes behind the scenes.

Andrew Hellmich: So you've talked a lot about overhead, so why not have the couples come to your house rather than you go to them? Is it because that travel part?

Ben Newnam: I'd rather keep family and business totally separate. So, yeah, you know, we talked about like having a little studio in the house, but, you know, I just want to keep family for family life, and then I'll just go out and do, you know, the business, go out and see people in their homes, people like that too, because they get home from work at, you know, six, seven o'clock, you know, the last thing they want to do is trudge out wherever and see a photographer and get home at sort of 10 o'clock at night, you know, because, they've worked an eight hour day, nine hour day. So I think people appreciate that.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay.

Ben Newnam: You get, you get the odd people who are a bit suspicious that, you know, you don't run a studio, you mustn't be that good. But, yeah, I think the work speaks for itself. And if that's people's attitudes, well, I can't help change that, so I'm not going to try and change it.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I was going to ask you, does it affect bookings? But if you're doing 50 to 75 weddings a year, it's obviously not hurting your booking.

Ben Newnam: That's right. No, not at all.

Andrew Hellmich: So let me just ask him, just as a lead on question, what do you actually take to the client's house to show your images?

Ben Newnam: Take about four to five albums, just all different styles, you know, like hardcovers, coffee table books, just some little parent albums. And that's really about it. And then I like, I'll go in there, and I'll, you know, say, "Do you want to start by having a look at some of my work?" And then, you know, "If you've got any questions while you're looking, you know, fire away", because, because, I guess the hardest part is the actual breaking the ice getting once you're in there with a client, you know, like, how do you start this? Some people have got a list of questions already in the, you know, in a, like, little folder that they've already got, you know, 100 questions for you, which is good.

Andrew Hellmich: I like that. Things rolling quickly.

Ben Newnam: It does. And some people have got no, you know, they'll say, "Look, we've never done this before, where, you know, what should we be asking you?"

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure.

Ben Newnam: I guess, what if I'm sick, you know, that sort of thing. And they go, "Oh yeah, what if you are sick?" And I'll tell them.

Andrew Hellmich: So have you? Have you tried the laptop and the iPad thing. And just worked out that the albums work better, or you've never even gone down that road?

Ben Newnam: I was going, thinking about doing where you offer an iPad.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, no, no. Sorry. I mean just to show.

Ben Newnam: Oh, just to show.

Andrew Hellmich: Just showing in the home.

Ben Newnam: I do every now and then. Like, if they're, like, if I've got an album online that I don't have there and, like, say they're getting married at a particular reception or at a, you know, particular location. And I haven't got that on my, in my hardcover albums, I might say, "Oh, look, I've got a thing online where I've done an album for somebody, you know, you can have a look at that, if you like." And I'll bring out the iPad then and show them, you know what it could look like on their day.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. Sure.

Ben Newnam: You know, because it's pretty limited to what you can take and show people, and the chances are that you won't have where they're getting married. So yeah, I'll only use it for that.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay.

Ben Newnam: Nothing like seeing the print. Sorry, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Now look, I said I only had one more question. But can I ask then, what percentage of couples actually book on the night?

Ben Newnam: Probably 20%- 30%. I try not to get them to book on the night. I always like them to I say, "Look, please have a think about it. You know, go see other photographers.", because I want them to make the right decision. I don't want them to, you know, book me, and then all of a sudden realize, "Oh, maybe he's not right for me." Yeah, I just don't want that, you know, if I'm not right for someone, I'm not right for someone. So I just want to avoid that. I just want them to make the right decision. So, yeah, and generally they, you know, you know, 80% of time they'll come back to me, so.

Andrew Hellmich: I can, I can see why you're getting booked so much. You are the world's nicest guy. They just love you. I can, who wouldn't book you?

Ben Newnam: I guess. Yeah, as long as you're, you're honest and open and easy going and know your stuff. You know, nothing should ever phase you.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, no, true, true, yeah.

Ben Newnam: Don't sweat the small stuff. And it's all small stuff.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. You ready to tackle these 10 quick questions?

Ben Newnam: Fire away.

Andrew Hellmich: 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, go. Canon or Nikon?

Ben Newnam: What else, Nikon?

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, I thought you're gonna say Canon. I like it even more.

Andrew Hellmich: What was your first ever camera?

Ben Newnam: Wow, real camera or just a camera?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah. What was your first ever camera? Do you remember?

Ben Newnam: I think it was just little point and shoot that my mom and dad got me. I remember my first photograph.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, really?

Ben Newnam: Yeah, it was in the, shot of an incinerator. The old incinerators used to have it where you used to burn stuff.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: Remember the day we instead of throwing in the bin, you used to burn it?

Andrew Hellmich: We had one at home too.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, I took a photo of that, you know, lined it up perfectly. I was about six years old.

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome.

Ben Newnam: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: What's your favorite lens today and why?

Ben Newnam: Oh, favorite lens, depends what I'm shooting.

Andrew Hellmich: Weddings, weddings on location.

Ben Newnam: Probably, if I'm shooting, I guess the 70 to 200 gets the most use, but I like the Leica 90 mil and the Leica 50 mil, 1.4.

Andrew Hellmich: So what have you got, you shooting with the Leica?

Ben Newnam: Not for weddings. That's for my own stuff.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, right. Okay, so 70-200 mainly for weddings, but yeah, your favorite lens is the Leica.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, you can't beat it.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. I've never shot with one. I'd love to, one day.

Ben Newnam: I'll bring it around.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, great. Do you shoot JPEG or raw?

Ben Newnam: Raw. Can't shoot anything else. Seriously, it's like getting a print from a JPEG is like getting a print from a print, whereas getting a print from a raw, it's like getting a print from a negative. Does that make sense?

Andrew Hellmich: It does. I won't argue with it, because I shoot JPEG, and so did the last couple of guests I interviewed.

Ben Newnam: Oh, really, have you ever shot raw?

Andrew Hellmich: I have. Yeah, I have. I just find it slows me down way too much and, yeah.

Ben Newnam: Oh, raw does?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah.

Ben Newnam: Just in Lightroom and that sort of thing?

Andrew Hellmich: Ah, you did the post processing, the space, everything, backing up, that the whole lot. I just inhibited.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, I just find there's so much more latitude with, you know, bringing back your highlights and like, say, you haven't got time to change your white balance. And if you shoot a JPEG, and your white balance is like, you know, a few thousand degrees out, you know, JPEG, you can't bring it back. Whereas, bring it back to, what..

Andrew Hellmich: Let's keep going. It'll be another hour. What do you reckon was the biggest breakthrough in your business to date?

Ben Newnam: The biggest breakthrough in the business, I'd have to say the global financial crisis.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that was a good thing?

Ben Newnam: That was a good thing for me, because I thought things were going to be tough. So I started advertising big time, and that's when I went from 30 weddings to 70 weddings.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that right?

Ben Newnam: Yep.

Andrew Hellmich: So when you say advertising is that, when you did the things with your SEO?

Ben Newnam: It's when I started to, yeah, all that sort of thing, and the directories and things.

Andrew Hellmich: Yep, wow. So that took a while, but that actually that was a big help.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, that was before SEO. SEO is my next stage, so still in its infancy stage, but it's just starting to pay dividends now.

Andrew Hellmich: So when the axe hit, so what did you do then that made the biggest breakthrough was it the fact that you actually put time into advertising?

Ben Newnam: Well, as the fact that more people saw me. Like, you know, and yeah, like, yeah, my name was out there more, I guess, whereas before it was like 90% word of mouth. Now it's probably 70 to 80% word of mouth. So yeah, it just really helped then. I guess, like everyone, they're really worried about the GFC, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: It sounds like the fear pushed you to again, pushed you like, like you were when you pushed out of that first job.

Ben Newnam: And it did, yeah, absolutely. Nothing like fear is it? Fear, don't fear anything except fear Itself. I can't remember the saying.

Andrew Hellmich: Here's the next one, number six.

Ben Newnam: Go for it.

Andrew Hellmich: If you had to start over with exactly the same knowledge you've got today, and you had to start over again, what would you do differently?

Ben Newnam: What would I do differently? Like if I still living with Mum and Dad?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, let's say you went back to that 19 year old kid. Love photography. Just finished school, but you've got the knowledge that you have today. How would you start your business? What would you do?

Ben Newnam: What would I do? I'd probably wouldn't do anything different, because knowing, because from the very outset, like when I was 19, I knew that when I wanted a family, I wanted to spend time with them, and I know, just with running a studio, and, you know, having all the other, everything that comes with that, yeah, something has to be sacrificed. And, you know, it's unless, of course, you got other people to look after the business entirely, but I could never do that. So, do you know I mean, like, yeah, I have to have 100% hands on. So that's why I just want to keep it a small little organization, yeah, so I can keep 100% control but still have a lifestyle.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. Sounds like it's always been family first for you, and then the business.

Ben Newnam: Totally, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool

Ben Newnam: Without a doubt, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. What..

Ben Newnam: Without the business, you wouldn't have, you know, not saying you wouldn't have the family, but ..

Andrew Hellmich: Wouldn't have the lifestyle.

Ben Newnam: You wouldn't be able to give, you wouldn't be able to give the kids what you want them to get.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. All right, moving on, mate. What software do you use for your batching, editing, renaming and renumbering?

Ben Newnam: Lightroom. Lightroom, that's it.

Andrew Hellmich: Have you got a pre, pre-shoot routine before weddings?

Ben Newnam: Pre-shoot? How do you mean like that?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, like what do you do? So you got, you got a wedding coming up on Saturday, do you do anything Saturday morning, especially with your gear, or big breakfast or?

Ben Newnam: No, no, none of that, because we know we gonna get fed totally at receptions, don't we? Three course dinner.

Andrew Hellmich: I wish, not every time.

Ben Newnam: What was I gonna say? I make sure all the batteries are charged. Make sure everything's right working. Lenses are clean. You know, everything's hanging up. You know, my clothes for the day is hanging up on the door. You know, keys, car keys are where I want them to be, everything so that when I get up, all I got to do is have a shower and have a shave and get dressed and I'm away.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so you do all your preparation the day before?

Ben Newnam: Yeah, enter all the GPS stuff in the day before. So, so, so nothing's left to chance.

Andrew Hellmich: That's good, yeah.

Ben Newnam: Because you never know, you know your GPS might fail.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah, I've had it sent me to the wrong location once that was enough.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, that's right. That's right, iPad comes in handy too. Yeah, that's helped me out a few times.

Andrew Hellmich: You shouldn't be using that while you're driving.

Ben Newnam: No, of course, no.

Andrew Hellmich: Where do you see wedding photography in five years’ time?

Ben Newnam: It's a tough call that one.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, crystal ball.

Ben Newnam: I think it'll be similar to what it is, because I still speak to people. Whoops, nearly dropped it, I bet. So I still see people and I say, "Are you getting video?" And they say, they, you know, usually they'll say, "No, we, we just want to have photos for the day, you know, like, you know, we don't like ourselves in video." So I think it'll be similar. It might be a little more fusion in it. That's about it. So we know ..

Andrew Hellmich: Where video combined with stills?

Ben Newnam: Yeah, that sort of thing, yeah. But I think that, I don't know, I can't see where it's going yet. It's been going one way or the other for what, 10 years now. Somebody says it's going one way, then all of a sudden it goes the other way. And, you know, fusion was what, two years ago was the next big thing, and it's really hasn't taken off yet.

Andrew Hellmich: No, I agree. I don't think it's taken off at all.

Ben Newnam: It hasn't.

Andrew Hellmich: Not like I expected it to. I think that, I think the video guys want it to.

Ben Newnam: Oh, totally yeah. But the thing with photographers too, yeah, we've got all the I guess, like in the old days, videographers used to shoot over our shoulder. So we, I guess we got that advantage where we know how to set up the shot and that sort of thing. But you know, videographers are certainly coming, you know, coming to the forefront now. You know, with, you know, setting up their own shots now, which, which is good in a way?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I like it. It makes life easier for us if they've got some good ideas.

Ben Newnam: It does, doesn't it? Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And they always love it rather, which is good.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, exactly, so. But yeah, I don't know where it's going. Well, we'll soon see, as long as I keep doing a good job, and I can't see photography dying, because they've always been, they've always had motion picture for the last, what, 20 years?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: They've always had still cameras for the last 20 years. You know, it's nothing's changed except the way it's captured. You know, like before it was captured on film, now it's captured on a sensor. Yeah, you know, I can't really see it. I can't differentiate between now and what, what it was 20 years ago, except, obviously the technology has changed.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: It's or, you know, people's perceptions change, because that's what we're really asking. Are people's perceptions changing of what they want for their wedding?

Andrew Hellmich: Well, I think there's a lot. There's albums going out now.

Ben Newnam: Oh, definitely, yeah, yeah. I guess you're, you're worried that will, will people eventually not want the image? I don't think so. I think people will still want a record.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, no, I agree. I agree.

Ben Newnam: You know, like, I've still got plenty of family shots, I haven't printed them, but they're all on hard drive for that one day that I retire and put it, put my albums together, of my family shots and that sort of thing. You know, there's, there's always going to be that element of people saying, you know, one day we will do something. So they'll always want to have that, you know, those good images there for that day when they do put their album together. Or, you know, because generally, a lot of people wait for their first child and then it'll hit them that, "Oh, we haven't got an album yet to show our child." So that's happened quite a bit.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, right. Couples tend to tell me they're going to come back and get albums, but I don't see that much of it. It's usually they order, order at the time of the wedding, or they don't.

Ben Newnam: Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of people, they'll have good intentions of getting an album and that, but then life goes on. You know, they got 2000 images there. They've got to sort through and choose, you know, 70 to 80 images. So, you know, and they've still got to go to work and come home and pick these images. So that's why it takes a year, two years, for them to pick their images.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: And that's, that's one of the reasons I don't get payment for albums straight away.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Ben Newnam: Because, yeah, you know. Whereas a lot of photographers will build the package in to the price, you know, knowing full well, it's going to take them six months to a year to pick their images, whereas I don't do that. So, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: We stopped doing that as well.

Ben Newnam: Yeah, I remember you're saying that, yeah. I think we said that last podcast.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah. For the brides..

Ben Newnam: Probably word for word.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, here's your lucky last question for tonight, what's your most embarrassing photography moment? Or stuff up?

Ben Newnam: Embarrassing moment, stuff up?

Andrew Hellmich: Had any in the 20 years? You must have had a couple of stuff ups in 20 years.

Ben Newnam: I guess there was one when I was shooting film, probably 15 years ago. I hadn't realized that the camera had rewound.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah?

Ben Newnam: So, like when, because I had two different cameras, I had, like, a f4 or an f5 whatever it was, and it used to, like you had to, you had the choice of rewinding it manually or getting it to rewind by itself. So I always like to make, you know, tell it when to rewind, whereas then I had it like an f1 100 or something, I can't remember the name of it, and it automatically rewound. And it was just so hectic that I'd shot the last shot, and it started rewinding, you know, back into the canister.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: And I hadn't realized so I was just shooting away, doing the family shots, and then I'd realize as we're starting the location shots, "Oh, I think I've missed the family shots."

Andrew Hellmich: Oh.

Ben Newnam: So, yeah. So we went to the reception and said, "Can we just do a few more family shots? I think you might have blinked."

Andrew Hellmich: So you actually realize on the day the shoot, that was pretty lucky.

Ben Newnam: I did, yeah. So I just, yeah, I know. I just said to him, "Look, I think it really, yeah, you know, I think we might have missed the family shots. Can we just do it?" Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So that's pretty good, mates. You wouldn't, you wouldn't have that today, would you but uh.?

Ben Newnam: No, you don't have that problem today.

Andrew Hellmich: No.

Ben Newnam: The thing about the D, the D3S which I've got, you got two cards.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: So you can either choose to back up, like, you know, the same shot on two separate cards.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: Or you can shoot it, use it as overflow.

Andrew Hellmich: What do you do?

Ben Newnam: I back up.

Andrew Hellmich: So do I.

Ben Newnam: One card files. You got that other card there.

Andrew Hellmich: I do exactly the same.

Ben Newnam: Because, you know, I mean, what's someone's paying, what, four to $6,000 for a wedding, and you know, it's just makes sense to spend that extra $200 on cards, whatever it is, $500 on cards, just to back it up.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Ben Newnam: You know, just have that peace of mind.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. I love it. I love extra cards.

Ben Newnam: That's why you have insurance is for peace of mind. So why wouldn't you do that when you're dealing with someone's, you know, memories? So, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, that is it. That is the round of 10. I just want to say a super big thanks again for coming on. We had some technical dramas to get this going, but you're stuck there, which is really good. I really want to thank you.

Ben Newnam: What's the time?

Andrew Hellmich: Ah, 10 to 10.

Ben Newnam: 10 to 10, that's all right. We're supposed to start at eight o'clock, so it's all right.

Andrew Hellmich: I'd say for the listeners, if you are a premium member, make sure you jump over to that part of the site, because Ben is going to kindly offer up some of the paperwork that he actually uses in his business to share with you, which is really awesome. And again, Ben, thanks so much for spending the evening with us and missing out on bedtime with the kids and the cat.

Ben Newnam: Pleasure. No worries. Anytime, Andrew, let me know.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome.

Ben Newnam: Yep

Andrew Hellmich: And we'll chat soon.

Ben Newnam: Thanks again, Andrew. Bye, bye.

Andrew Hellmich: Thanks Ben, bye, bye.