After pushing Anie for an answer, she uncovered that no matter Yervan's abilities as a photographer when starting their business together, she could have “marketed” him to success by applying the same strategies she did. With Yervant having the talent he did, just made it a little easier.
Anie's biggest piece of advice is to appeal to the “girliness” of the bride and DO NOT have your studio or meeting place looking like every other photography studio out there. You don't wan't to look like an art gallery, a computer store or send mixed messages.
If you work from home and only have one room available, Anie shares the perfect strategies for you to give the impression you are worth more, lots more than photographers charging $2000. By making yourself look like you are worth spending more on, you will attract couples that are happy to, even want to spend more on their wedding photography.
Here's some more of what we cover:
Following the interview, you'll be calling on your wife, sister, mother or girlfiends to add some serious input into their views on your studio space. If you're a female listener/photographer, get ready to forget what you've learnt from the men in the industry and explore what YOU would really like to see when shopping for anything for your wedding.
What's on Offer for Premium Members
If you're a premium member, you should have received an email with links to your version of this episode where you can hear lots more implementable content from Anie where we dive deeper into some of the earlier topics plus some new ones that I pushed hard for including:
What is your big takeaway?
Following this interview with Anie, I'd love to know what your biggest takeaway is – what is the one thing that you'd like to implement or learnt from what she had to share? Let me know by leaving your thoughts in the comments below.
If you have any questions that I missed, a specific question you'd like to ask or if you just want to say thanks for coming on the show, feel free to add them below.
If you'd like an easy way to show your thanks to Anie, and support for the show at the same time, click the link to create a tweet and automatically and let her know you're listening: https://photobizx.com/tweet.
Win A New Camera Strap from Lucky Straps
Last week I received a new camera strap for my Nikon D4 and love it – the extra support and non slip design was a noticeable difference to the supplied Nikon strap. I have an extra strap that was going to be used on my Fuji X100s but it's way too big for that so I'm giving it away.
Head over to luckystraps.com.au/collections and let me know the colour strap you'd like to have for your camera and the first person to mention the colour I have here will receive this one.
The Resources Page
Remember the ever expanding resources page that has a listing of products, programs, hardware, books and directories mentioned in each episode of the show. If you’re looking for something that a guest has mentioned on a previous episode but just can’t remember who or what it was – you’ll find it listed in order on the resources page.
iTunes ratings, reviews and Shout-Outs
Each week before recording the podcast I check iTunes for any reviews and each week I'm excited to see what you've had to say about the podcast. This week there were two great reviews so a big thanks to Burn and Dodge from the USA and Albert Palmer of Albert Palmer Photography in Bristol UK.
Sincerely, thanks so much for your ratings and reviews, I appreciate the time you've taken and it's a big help for the show. It's these iTunes reviews that make a big difference to the podcast being ranked well and found in the iTunes store. If you have the time and are happy to leave an honest rating and review, head over to iTunes.
Don't feel your comments have to be long, involved or gushy, an honest opinion is all I ask. Don't be shy about leaving your business name in the review either – that way I can add a link in the show-notes and show my appreciation with a proper thanks and a Google loving back-link to your website.
Get in Touch or Leave a Voicemail Message
If you'd like to get in touch, ask a question or make a suggestion for the show, you can email me andrew@photobizx.com, find me on Twitter https://twitter.com/andrewhellmich or on Facebook at https://photobizx.com/facebook – I'd love to hear from you!
Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode:
Yervant Photography – the main website or Yervant Photography
Yervant Photography on Facebook
Page Gallery – Album Design Software
Australian rules and regulations regarding Trademarks
That's it for me this week, hope everything is going well for you in life and business!
If you've been enjoying the podcast, I'd love for you to tell another photographer about it – it could be in a Facebook Group you're a part of, a photography forum, with a photographer friend or on twitter.
If you do have a twitter account, simply click here: https://photobizx.com/tweet or use the share buttons below.
Thanks and speak soon
Andrew
Hi Andrew, I loved the interview with Anie – it was refreshing and the marketing info was great. My question is – I would love to know what the family care arrangements for the couple’s 12 month old baby were when they opened their own studio. What sort of hours did they work and did they use paid care? Did it work or would they have done things differently?
Cheers
Deb
Andrew,
Mate, you really hit it outta’ the park with this one.
“go where the rich girls go” pretty much sums it up. She could have stopped there and made her point just as good, in my opinion.
“go back and look at your business as a client” and what she said about how women don’t care about our cameras or computers was so true.
I really, really enjoyed this episode. I will be listening to this one again!
However, there were some things that I didn’t quite understand that maybe Anie could clarify for me….
Anie: Did you really mean it when you said “if you’re doing this part time, switch off now” ????
And when you said that if you “do an office job during the week and then do this on the weekend this is not for you” ????
Were you serious, Anie ????
You do realize that most photographers today are not 100% full time photographers?
Andrew has even had guests on his podcast that state not to quit your day job.
Your husband has a gift, a true talent that we all strive for every time we pick up a camera. We may never be as successful as him.
But you know what??? We can sure as hell try.
Even if that means finding a way where there isn’t one.
Joel Grimes just the other day posted a thing on his Facebook page about the top 5 (or so) rejection letters. One was to Madonna. The point was to never give up. And Matthew Jordan Smith has always talked about the fact that it’s the “journey” that matters, not the final product.
So I don’t know where you’re coming from when you say, “this isn’t for you”.
I think what has happened is that your husband had some serious photographic talent and you knew how to market to women and together you achieved success. But where would you be without your husband today? Would you still be climbing that corporate ladder?
I bet your husband was told many times to “switch off now”. And I’m sure he felt like sh*t when they gave him those 40 sets of negatives. But did he give up?
Hell no he didn’t!!!!
He hung in there. He found a way. And you took a risk with that $15,000 in the bank. And look at you two today. A success story.
So please don’t tell us to “switch off now”.
Please respect that we’re trying our best and we’re doing it because we love photography.
Please understand that.
In the meantime…I wish you continued success. You and your husband have created something great and I congratulate the both of you for doing so.
I sincerely wish you all the best in all you do.
Take care,
Joey Joiner
Fort Worth, Texas
I just want to say that this podcast was very confronting! (in a good way)
I am one of those weekend photographers who absolutely loves weddings as well as photography but have yet to get to a point to justify becoming full-fledged. Perhaps, I should have stopped listening at that point, haha.
My takeaway from this weeks podcast is that we really need to think about our target market. In Anie’s case, they are the upmarket High Street Armadale(?) brides and following suit, her store reflects that.
If your target brides are the DIY or vintage, then your image should follow suit. This means that your website(your “Home”) should follow suit. I can see this as a trend from many of the podcast interviewees before this, just like Nikki McArthur.
ps – This is a positive critique and hope it doesn’t come off as harsh; I don’t feel Yervant’s website reflects that upper class bride feel. This might be the next steps that Anie was referring to, about hiring a developer and spending money on SEO.
I think you’re spot on Min, with your takeaways – your target market should define your brands (which includes your website, studio, packaging, marketing) look and feel.
If vintage is your thing, why not have a studio that has that vintage, antique feel – I’m sure brides looking for that style will instantly fall in love with you when they turn up for a wedding appointment.
And yes, there are definite trends appearing aren’t there!
Wow that’s was less an interview and more a monologue! Anyway, great information provided by Anie, and I picked up on some excellent ideas. The local dress maker is definitely an ingenious idea that I’m going to explore!
Glad you picked up some good ideas Chris – love to hear how it works out networking with your local dress designer.
Hello Andrew, hello Anie, thank you both for this great interview.
Big take aways : contacting wedding dresses designer and offer free photos (although I know that a lots in Auckland -NZ- already do have some photographers doing it for them.
Then I love the idea of not giving the price immediately but I have mixed feelongs about it. When brides contact me through my website or wedding planners websites they indeed add me to their exel sheet. Though if I don’t give my pricing : they may waist their time because I may not be at all on their budget and I may waist my time trying to meet / call them for the same reason. Also giving price upfront seem to be a good way to upsale, to be honnest to get them leave with a good taste once the whole sale is over and it gives more chance to be recommended.
Arrgh… I’m probably listening at the podcast too much at the moment : there is so many different possible way to approach people that it gets hard to find what is my way.
Anie : you have build the brand and have found a way to market it. I start to get quite a clear idea on what my brand can be but I am not good at marketing. Would it be worth to hire an agency to work on that for me? How to do that with very little budget?
Many thanks.
Kindest regards,
Anaïs
ps : it must be too late to win the straps as the link doesn’t work. I was going to say blue, white and red (…like the French flag…), right?!
Hi Anais – when looking for a local dress designer, maybe look for a new, upcoming designer rather than the biggest, most well known ones. If you’re looking at the bigger designers, check out their websites, wall prints and look for one that needs some fresh photos and target them.
The price thing can be a tough one but even if you do give your prices, I’m sure Anie was saying that your main aim should always to try and get the couple to come in, meet you and see your work. You need to make that connection rather than simply giving a price.
Maybe you could say that your prices start at… but they can be totally customised to suit what you’re looking for?
Anie can answer your question about an agency but honestly, I think you have enough ideas to do this on your own Anais.
To get bookings you need referrals from people you have built relationships with. To do that, thane what you’ve heard from the podcast guests like Gabreile Matchuret, James Schramko and Anie. Using what you heard from these three interviews will get you well known fast.
1. Interview local wedding service providers and blog about them.
2. Create videos answering the questions that your brides/couples want the answers to. Answers about the best locations, where to avoid, how to plan for the perfect day, do you recommend spray tans etc, etc.
3. Shoot local designers gowns at local venues and supply the photos to the designer, the venues, the florist, the make up artist, the hair stylist etc.
Three things that all work!
Oh yeah, and don’t miss the next episode of the podcast with Billy. 😉
P.S If you’re feeling overwhelmed, listen to the first question I asked James Schramko in his interview again. He simplifies how to deal with your feelings very easily.
Oops, sorry Anais – I missed your comment about the camera strap.
Looks like I gave out the incorrect link for the Lucky Straps website – should have been http://www.luckystraps.com.au
The one I have isn’t the “tri colours” of the French flag so feel free to have another go.
Hi Andrew I really loved this interview and the ideas Anie shared. I love the idea of networking with Brial stores. Will these high end bridal stores allow you to borrow a dress and use on location with a model if in return you supply the images even if their suppliers already have professional shots for marketing? Just seems unlikely to me.
Andrew
Hi Andrew – maybe it’s best not to target the “high end” designer but try and build a relationship with the up and coming designer/s.
In saying that, you never know if you never ask and designers will always be looking for new and great photos of their gowns. If they are paying for photography, there’s a good chance they are paying a lot. If you’re offering contra deal, it’s difficult to say no to that.
When you first approach a designer, I’d suggest go in easy and forget about asking for the most expensive gown in the store to start with. Start small, deliver great images and build from there.
Hi Everyone,
THANKS for listening to my voice 😉
Here are answers to the Q’s you posted.
Deb Smith: We were fortunate that Yervant’s parents could look after Ricky much of the time but a lot of times, we took him in his little pram with us to the studio, I had set up a little corner in the office with a lot of soft things, toys etc and he would sleep there if he got tired. We were also lucky that Ricky was such a good baby, not demanding at all. 🙂
Joey Joiner: Thanks indeed for your comments. Let me explain the real context of why I say “if you are part time… ” Many many people truly expect to reach high success levels of photographers like Yervant, Jerry Ghionis, Cliff Mautner, Bambi Cantrell, and so many more. Doing any job part time is simply ‘PART TIME” and will not return the level of success, recognition, remuneration etc of those who do something full time.
People like Yervant, Jerry, and all the notable names in our industry definitely put in 20 hour days, they breath, eat, sleep PHOTOGRAPHY, they are beyond passionate, the results are there.
I NEVER EVER discourage anyone, on the contrary, I always remember and repeat constantly about our beginnings, hell it was scary, very very scary, BUT we put in 100% and more, we gave it all, we worked 20 hour days everyday, we totally relied on making it or get out, it was a matter of survival and we did it. Many of the big names have very similar stories.
If anything, our start and journey is probably more INSPIRATIONAL than anything we talk about or show. It is the dedication and putting oneself in a situation of survival. That is when one truly gives ALL and not just a little, giving all is FULL TIME, having nothing else but this one avenue for the next pay check, that is when one truly makes it. It is even more difficult to sustain it, maintain it and that takes 22 hours a day, we even sleep with projects twirling in our sleep.
For people like those who have made it big in this industry or ANY other, it is all about putting in 100% +++ . Part time effort can only bring in part time results in anything not just photography. You can choose to eat the whole apple or half the apple. It is individual.
Let me also add something on behalf of all the FULL TIME photographers worldwide. All of us have taken the risk, all of us have sleepless nights, all of us fully depend, all of us have no other outlet, all of us have chosen to give ourselves NO OTHER choices, no other avenues to back on to except for PHOTOGRAPHY. We all hire people and provide job opportunities to others who want to be in photography. To be able to do all of the above, it takes a lot of money.
With the influx of ‘Part Timers’ throughout the world, the trull VALUE of a professional photographer has been completely tarnished. Many full time studios have had to reduce their number of employees, many closed down because part timers caused a price war. A part timer is doing wedding photography for the extra $$$ on a weekend, they DO NOT rely on photography, they are just enjoying an opportunity to make extra cash and discounting is not an issue for a part timer as they already have a full time job for their living.
For the FULL TIME photographer, there is no other income and keeping up to the historical LOW prices has meant that many many true talents had to go under and close shop, fire workers. This is truly sad Joey, very very sad.
So, I will say it again, FOR THE SAKE OF THE INDUSTRY AT LARGE, either do it full time and charge prices that reflect the TRUE VALUE of our craft or just get out. Do not come in with one foot still OUT and cheapen this wonderful industry. Give it 100% or get out.
(pheeeew. I get so passionate about this industry don’t I ?)
Min Wye: I am beginning to see that my message has fluttered a few feathers. This is great, we all need to be challenged and we all need to speak from our heart and be passionate.
OK, one thing we need to be super clear about is this :
1) THERE IS PLENTY OF BUSINESS FOR ALL OF US OUT THERE!!!
2) There are only 52 weeks in a year and all one can possibly want is to fill a Saturday or a Sunday for say 48 weeks.
3) We all should have our own ‘Brush Stroke’ in our style hence attracting clients who want that STYLE.
4) DIY brides are those who set low budgets for pretty much all the services she acquires for her wedding day.
5) Vintage? That is anew one, I have not yet heard what is a vintage bride. Either she is over 70 or she wants a certain STYLE of capture and finish. ( I know it is the second 😉 so we are back to ‘ own signature, own brush stroke’
So, we can all have our own target market and pitch our services accordingly to attract exactly that crowd.
I am not sure what you mean about our website? Our target audience is leans greatly towards the European, avant garde, bling loving, extrovert clientele. These clients love to spend big, they love to show off, they love to be seen and they spend a lot of money making their weddings a big production, hence they want us to photograph it all and have it all in styles Yervant keeps inventing to keep them coming in generation after generation.
We have carefully selected our target audience, we show and tell in the style that appeals to them and we have them. That is what we do.
The lesson here is, like I said, create your STYLE, your own brush stroke, your signature, then market yourself to attract those who want THAT style. Marketing your unique style starts from how you set up your studio or showroom, how you represent yourself, your product mix, your price range, your service options, your stationery, your packaging, etc etc and more. ALL these components need to speak in the subliminal language of the market segment you want to attract and service and be the best at it.
That is the key to a successful and sustainable business that keeps on keeping on.
Chris: Thank you too for listening in and your comments. Yeah… I know I talk too much 😉 I also write a lot too can you tell? Heck, I LOVE LOVE LOVE this industry and I love to meet, hear and share with our peers.
Definitely go to the local dress designer, these people have little or no money for good fashion pics of their gowns, and welcome receiving them, then you have to work your own charm and magic to keep them on your side and recommend you brides… so they get more dress pictures and the circle will grow and grow.
Anais: Thanks too for listening and your comments.
Andrew already answered on my behalf there about giving out prices on an email or phone. This is really difficult, I KNOW it, it is really difficult BUT you just have to go to all lengths to reel and lure them to PHYSICALLY come and meet you in person, TOUCH and FEEL your products, SEE them!
Don’t forget what I said ‘They don’t buy their wedding gown on the phone do they? ‘
So price should not be their measuring point, the actual PRODUCT has to be. YOU are the product YOU. YOU will service them and create images for them with YOIR unique brush stroke. You must always remember this and word yourself so they understand that and they come and see YOU then your products and then your prices.
And… meeting any potential client is definitely NO WASTE OF YOUR TIME. It is the most important time of your job.
Andrew Szopory: Thank you too for listening and taking the time to post here too.
Forget the HIGH STREET shops, start with the LOW street boutiques first, it is this designer who is more desperate for real beautiful images of their gowns and most probably have no budget for it. They will be more than appreciative and will return the favour by truly and wholeheartedly recommending you to their brides so they get more images of their dresses. The CIRCLE.
Also don’t forget, like you, like us, we all think hitting on the high street designer is the way to go, straight to the top, but unfortunately, this is not so original an idea, many photogs do this and straight to the high street designer, so best to pitch lower and go to the new comer, the mid level boutique and work together to go up and up.
Just like Andrew H wrapped it up on his last post after yours.
Thanks again everyone. And remember one thing. ANY speaker, presenter, interviewee is only sharing their own opinion, experiences and expertise, nothing is set in concrete, nothing is a formula, nothing we say is the only way. These are all lessons from which we all take a little and shape them to our own individual situations.
The business of PHOTOGRAPHY is not B&W, just like the images, the BUSINESS also has many many hues and saturations and levels. Find the perfect PICTURE of your business and succeed with that SIGNATURE. be unique.
LOVE to all.
Anie
What an amazing interview! Great information and a great success story about a very talented photographer!
Anie: Thank you very much for the great interview but I do have to agree with Joey on the part time thing! I am also working hard to build a part time business before going full time. I put in crazy hours and am constantly learning so that I can create a great product for my clients.
You say you are speaking on behalf of ALL full time photographers in the world, but I bet MOST of them shot quite a few weddings part time before quitting their jobs! Some of us part time photographers are on a path, with the goal of becoming full time wedding photographers. You need to realise that just because it is a different path to the one you guys took it doesn’t make it wrong or detrimental to the photography industry.
The way you talk about part timers all just earning extra cash on the weekends is insulting and a generalisation. Convincing people to quit their jobs when they are not ready is not going to magically change the landscape of professional photography and re-open studios that have closed. I sincerely hope this isn’t part of the material that you are teaching in your seminars!
Also agree with Min, the Yervant website isn’t really in-line with the brand and images produced by Yervant.
Sorry for the rant and thank you again for taking the time to be interviewed on my favourite podcast!
Crackin’ interview Andrew! Great tips and I totally agree with Anie’s method and mentality of attracting the right clients. Too often I hear people saying that no one will spend the money. Rubbish! It’s about attracting the right client by presenting yourself to the right client, correctly.
If you are confident and offer the very best service and products you can, then you can charge a premium and get the clients you want. Some people say you don’t need to go all out as most people can’t tell the difference between an amazing and an average photograph. Well, I’m not after attracting “most” people!
If I want to offer portraits printed on museum grade archive paper guaranteed to last 100 years, then I will, even if I don’t have to.
My biggest takeaway was Anie’s point on meeting the clients in a nice hotel. That is genius! If you don’t have a nice enough house or have kids and pets running around, everyone has a nice suit and a nice dress. So, get dressed and go meet the client in the best hotel bar you can get into and meet them there!
That is an amazing idea and should I get into doing weddings, that’s what I’m going to do. I’m actually already thinking about which hotels are nice enough in my city!
Anyway, lots of great tips here. Thanks!
Love your comments and passion Rahim!
I agree with your takeaway. That comment about hotels was a one of my favourite things from the interview and one that screams simplicity in regard to implementation. I know a few photographers in Sydney also meet in classy/upmarket chocolate boutiques in the city. The brides-to-be love it as a meeting place by all accounts.
Hi Andrew and Anie,
Just finished listening to this episode and found it truly fascinating. I initially came onto the site to say how much it opened my eyes up to the psychology behind the client’s needs. Anie, you are completely right about the mindset that brides have between the engagement and wedding rings. You see it all the time when friends face FB posts about where they’ve been, what they’ve bought etc, etc.
My question is
“Do you think you could apply the same mindset and approach to clients of child and family portraits?”. Or what about fine art?
I have a target audience of high income families who may ( or may not!) be keen on large wall prints. taking the “shop front psychology” further, there is technology out there which can create a virtual show room for your work. I can see potential in this approach. What do you think?
But then, here come’s the rub! This potential audience is based upon my personal “shopfront” which is the fact that I work as a teacher and therefore am not a FULL TIME photographer. I was amazed when I read Anie’s comments about part timers. I do find myself agreeing with many of Justin’s comments. I am definitely on a path which I really hope will take me into fulfilling my dream full time, but I know that I am not yet there.
I was really disappointed to read Anie’s comments about part time photographers. There is always more than one way to pursue your goals and I guess if you’re good enough ( at both photography and marketing) then I suppose you have a decent chance at making a living. But, its a journey which some of us take longer to travel than others and therefore need other supports to help us facilitate this journey, like another reliable paying job. Thats life.
Anyway, Andrew, sorry for the length of this. Your podcasts have certainly got me thinking and applying, for which I am extremely grateful. and Anie, Thank you for your brilliant insight into the psychology of the client!
Hey Gary – great to read your comments.
I won’t try and answer for Anie but yes, why couldn’t a similar approach work for portraiture and fine art? I guess your aim for this genre is to work out who is the “buyer” and create a space or shopfront that appeals to them and not necessarily what you like.
A couple of interviews you must listen to are Steve Sapporito and Jenika McDavitt – who both cover the psychology of selling and particularly focus on appealing to the right client, setting up your studio/selling space with a focus on portraiture.
Here are the links to these interviews:
https://photobizx.com/steve-saporito-the-doctor-of-portrait-photography-success/
https://photobizx.com/how-to-use-psychology-in-your-photography-business-for-more-clients-sales-freedom/
As for the part time comments, again, I won’t answer for Anie but I get the feeling her comments were aimed at the photographers shooting part time with never any intention of going full time. The weekend shooter that can price as low as they like because photography will never have to be any kind of dependable income.
Photographers like you, Justin and others that are working toward going full time are totally different.
If a photographer is really considering going full time, they absolutely must look at how much they charge and be able to replace a fair amount of their existing income before making the leap. These shooters are not damaging the industry and deserve every bit of encouragement to be able to make a living doing what they love.
Great podcast and it has made us re-examine our tag line/branding message, going to change to something softer, with more feeling and centered around what we do to capture that day the bride has planned out in every way. Thank goodness had not placed that new order for biz cards yet. Also, I notice Anie’s wisdom coming through as I write for the blog, website and e-mails.
Thank you
Thanks Rollin – good to hear your takeaways and nice that you heard the interview BEFORE ordering your new cards.
Thank you so much Anie to take time to answer. I will follow your advice.
Andrew, the strip is brown!
Thanks Anie. I got so much out of this. Continue the great work.