015: Tania Niwa – Successful Portrait Photography Business with Coaching, The Right Products and Analysing The Figures

015: Tania Niwa – Successful Portrait Photography Business with Coaching, The Right Products and Analyzing The Figures

Andrew Hellmich: I'm so happy to welcome Tanya Niwa to the podcast today. Now, I was thinking about this introduction and how I could introduce Tanya, and I imagine if I was playing a word association game and Tanya's name came up, what would be the first words that come to mind for me? And they would be photographer, businesswoman, successful New Zealand and proud. Now, Tanya is a grand master of photography. She hails from New Zealand and has a wedding and portrait photography business on the northern beaches of Sydney, Australia. She regularly runs photography workshops, and I even caught her on television last week during an episode of Celebrity Apprentice. I'm really looking forward to discovering a little more. Tanya, welcome to the podcast. Thanks.

Tania Niwa: Thanks, Andrew, that was interesting.

Andrew Hellmich: Was you on TV the other week? Wasn't it?

Tania Niwa: It was. It was, Graham Monroe and I, yep.

Andrew Hellmich: So how did that come about? How did you get onto the Celebrity Apprentice?

Tania Niwa: Canon had asked Graham Monroe and I to be the celebrity, or the judges for the Celebrity Apprentice Challenge. So they were all given cameras and had a challenge to choose one of the celebrities within their group and sort of express how like no one, the Canon's logo was no one, no one sees it like you. So they wanted to express what they thought of each, but you know, the celebrity that they chose. It was really, really impressive. And considering that they had about 15 minutes tuition each, it was fantastic. There were two groups. There were the older celebrities, with Dawn Fraser, Jeff Fenwick, etc., and then the younger, younger crowds, John Stephenson, the athlete, and the younger group. And it was, what was really interesting was that the older group chose to go with black and white, and I felt that they really connected through you could see that they really connected with Jeff Fenwick, who they chose to photograph. You could really see in their eyes that they'd sort of really taken time to connect with him. And then the younger, the younger group, I really enjoyed that they all used color, and the way that each person saw was so different to the other but a totally different feel and a totally different energy. So it was just, it was really fascinating to see what from that point of view of how each person sees the world so differently and sees the person that they were photographing in such a different way, just like photographers.

Andrew Hellmich: So looking at the quality of the images that those celebrities that are non-photographers produced, did that blow you away? You know, how good their photos were?

Tania Niwa: That was quite mind blowing. It was, I think it was a great reflection on the, how they were given tuition through Canon and how good the camera gear is. Like, "Oh my gosh, they can do that?!"

Andrew Hellmich: So, was there a lot of Photoshop work done on those images?

Tania Niwa: They weren't. They weren't allowed to do, there wasn't allowed to be much at all. But Dawn Fraser actually has been a keen photography enthusiast for many years, and that really shot sort of stood out as to her skills and connection, being able to connect. I think that was a big thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, the images that I saw on TV were just amazing. So, you know, I'll add links to those in the show notes for this episode, so listeners can have a look at those.

Tania Niwa: Yeah, it was unfortunate they focused on the Roxy drama and more than what people had to say about the photographs, because the celebrities actually told great stories, and so did Graham and I, but they we made the chopping room floor.

Andrew Hellmich: That's rehearsing TV right there, isn't it?

Tania Niwa: That was to a T. They go, yeah, we weren't. We were dramatic enough.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, if you two guys that have been arguing carrying on a little bit more and cause a bit more drama yourselves, then you may have got a little bit more TV time.

Tania Niwa: Yeah. Well, they said to us, give us three positive and three negatives. I thought, "Let me think about this. 4 million people listening to me being negative. No, thanks."

Andrew Hellmich: No. Well, look, so we really jumped into things here. We sort of kicked things off without much of an intro. So how would you like to let listeners know a little bit about yourself, about Tanya Niwa, and what you do?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, sure. Well, I am you mentioned wedding photography. We actually don't shoot many weddings anymore. Now our focus is, although we do, you know, offer that option, we focus on portraiture for families, mostly around in the North Shore of Sydney, and we specialize in portraiture on location at beaches such as Balmoral or Freshwater beach. And we do a lot of photography at people's homes, so we bring our full studio lighting set up so we can have amazing, beautiful light and really reflect the essence of their families within the home. We love the challenge of going somewhere that we haven't been before. And, you know, solving any challenges that we might have by, you know, coming to people's homes, and often people that book us have pets. They usually have to have dogs. We're really well known for our working with dogs and cats as well. So in addition to that, we also probably about 40% of our business is commercial photography. So, often people related, but also product and business related photography.

Andrew Hellmich: So when you're telling me about the portrait shoots that you go out on, you kept saying, 'we', so is it more than just you in the business?

Tania Niwa: I'm the principal photographer, but, but when I say 'we' as our team, because we've always got, you know, I've got a graphic designer, Yasha, who is our production manager and designer, and she's here full time, and she's also studied photography and has a degree in Fine Arts, so she's able to assist on any of our commercial shoots and have a big input into, you know, what our shoots are like. And we also have Simone, who is in charge of business development, and she also assists on shoots and has a passion for photography. And we have one other staff member, Ziva, who has done an internship with me and also assists on shoots. So when I say we, it's as we work as a team, and I always see ourselves as a team.

Andrew Hellmich: Now I really want to delve a little bit more into the business side of things, but in my intro, I mentioned New Zealand and being proud. And I was thinking about heritage. So how long have you been in Australia for?

Tania Niwa: I moved over here in 1995 so might be too far away. No, it would have been here 20 years. I've actually, I still go back to New Zealand often. In the next two months, I think I've got four trips booked back to go there. I'm actually going back there next, next week, I've got a real passion for my New Zealand Maori culture and heritage, and so whenever I can be involved in art projects back there, or creating portraiture that has an indigenous influence to it, that's, you know, I'll get involved in that. I've got an exhibition coming up at the Govett-Brewster Art Gallery in New Plymouth, which is my hometown city, the city from where I'm from originally, of 30 New Zealand Maori artists that are from, originally from Taranaki. And it's called, Call of Taranaki. So I'm going back next week to do some of the photography that I will use an exhibit in there. So yeah, but yeah, really, as you said, proud, proud of my culture, and that does influence my personal photography.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. I know that with a lot of your award prints and your fine artwork, that has a definite Maori influence through them, doesn't it?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, when I was a teenager. I, my focus was art and photography. And when I entered the profession, my boss, John Crawford, who was, he was one of the industry leaders in commercial wedding and portrait photography, was someone that everyone copied. He did, he just was really, really like, he would photograph a wedding with, say, helicopter and put the bride groom on a tank on a farm, or something really, really unusual and different. And he, so people like to sort of follow his lead, not with helicopters, but in his style. So when I started working for him, I realized that I needed to find my own unique style. And it was actually at the time that Anne Geddes had just started doing the baby photography with, you know, like babies and the cabbages and that sort of thing. And she really defined her own style. And I realized, well, I need to do something that reflects what I'm proud of. And so I thought I would incorporate the New Zealand Fern and the local Maori Meeting House, which is marae, so that has lots of beautiful carvings painted red and just lots of symbols of the, you know, the old, the old culture. So I started incorporating symbols of our culture within my work, and that actually was really successful when I was young, and that actually established me, I guess, in my career, with my colleagues as well. I guess I started being recognized, and in my, I think when I turned 26 I just, just moved over to Australia when I was 24 but when I was 26, I actually won New Zealand Photographer of the Year. So that was the young, you know, the youngest person to have done that. And I think that just created a new style that they hadn't seen before. So that was really exciting and great that it was appreciated coming out with some a new style.

Andrew Hellmich: So when you talk about going back to New Zealand, you know, a few times this year and going back next week, is that you sort of putting your hand up for these, for these jobs, or for, you know, are you volunteering? Are you saying sort of, "Pick me, pick me". Or are you commissioned for these shoots? How does all that work?

Tania Niwa: With the exhibition, I was selected. I've got a, I was lucky enough to, when I was coached about seven years ago, I had, Lauren Bootland and I, so we work together. She now works with GM Photography. Her and I put together our list of Top 10 things we'd like to do, or who we'd like to meet, and one of the top 10 people I'd like to meet was Darcy Nicholas. And I had grown up always seen his artwork in books, and there was a painting of his at the school that I went to, and I always was in awe of his work, and I put it out there that he was on my top three people to meet. And as things would happened, I, one of the my goals was to do really well at the WPPI Professional Photography Awards in Vegas, and also to be asked to be a speaker. So that was one of the things that we put on our list of what we wanted to do. And I actually won the Grand Award there. And as a result of that, I was asked to speak in Wellington and I happened to bump into him at a huge gallery opening, and then he invited me to lunch. And then from there, we've become really close friends. His, we have, we're actually like our extended family are already friends anyway, but from there, he sort of taken me under his wing over the years and really helped me and challenged me with my photography, and he's the actual person putting together the exhibition that I'm going to be a part of later in the years. And it's really, yeah. So he's got all the top Maori artists around him that he calls on when he would like them to be involved in things. So I saw, yes, I got asked.

Andrew Hellmich: So how did you first get into photography? Was it something that was introduced to you, or did you just, you just found it?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, yeah. Well, my parents are both teachers, and one of the things when you're a teacher, you had to do a couple of years in the country, in the remote schools. And my dad had lots of hobbies, and photography was one of them. And so even from the age, I even I can remember, one of my earliest memories is from the age of two or three helping dad in the dark room processing photographs, and then he'd put a big sheet out in the lounge and then I'd help him roll the photographs with a roller to dry them and then hang them up, and that sort of thing. So I've been around that sort of thing forever. And then when I was in about 10 or 11, I was actually in his class. We moved back to Taranaki, which is, that's when you put the New Plymouth is in that province. When, when we moved back, one of the things he taught us in class was how to, you know, work on our photographs and that sort of thing. So again, at school, we were doing that sort of thing at an early age of learning how to print your photographs. So it's been, always been something I've been interested in. And then at high school, it just really complemented being into, I always thought it'd be an artist, like as a painting artist, but the photography ended up, you know, taking over. And, yeah, I just, I had a really random experience. The art room, where this get the school, we live, right next to the high school, and someone burnt down the brand new art block and had a new, brand new photography darkroom. Someone asked in the library, and that burnt, burnt everything else down. But what happened was, as a result of that, the provincial newspaper came to interview people, and they asked if I would pose holding a roll of negatives up, you know, in the rubble. And the lady that had to photograph with me was my idol, like I had always followed her, love her sports photography, and really loved her surfing and rugby and rugby league photography. So they ended up letting me do work experience there all through high school and all through me being at Polytech and that sort of thing. So I did four years of work experience at the provincial newspaper, so that's where I got my training.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. So you're actually shooting then. So when was the idea to sort of come to Australia and start a business, or did you already have your own photography business in New Zealand?

Tania Niwa: When I finished at Polytech in Hamilton, I did, I studied Media Studies, and you had the option of majoring in photography or video. And when I looked at how much video gear and how, like, 100 kilos of luggage, compared to 20 or 30 for cameras, yeah, I think I'm sticking with the photography and the video and the editing suite was so just way over the top for me so, and I just kept with photography. But when I came back to New Plymouth after I studied, there weren't any jobs at the newspapers going and there was a business course for people to see whether they would be successful in small businesses, and just helping them prepare and understand what was involved, and I did the sums, and I realized there was no way I could ever survive as a photographer, having never worked professionally in the industry, only, you know, for any other photographer, only doing jobs for people directly from the age of 17. So when a job came up with John Crawford, that was, that was just like, that was the best thing that could ever have happened, because he was at the, you know, the leader in the field of commercial photography and wedding and portrait and because in Taranaki, it's an oil and gas province, so they have prolific files going back for many, many years. So we, and we had big clients like Shell, like oil and gas clients. So I got to experience all of that level of photography, you know, like at the very highest level. And we had a lot of clients in Wellington and Auckland that were design companies. So I was able to get a great understanding of what the expectations were.

Andrew Hellmich: How early on then were you actually shooting for John, or were you carrying bags for years?

Tania Niwa: For the first, joked around with me that I'd be making tea at the start, and then my tea sucked so badly that I didn't have to make the tea at all. But I started, he, because he would travel so much. He would go to Chile for like, forestry jobs or blah, blah, blah, and I'd have to have to end up editing a lot of his wedding photography. It was all in 120 neg, and I'd have to manage all of that sort of stuff. And because I'd on lots of shoots with him, there would be occasions where, say, a really big client would say, "Look, we really need a headshot done to match the others that John did." And because I'd seen all of the details of all the type that you know, I was able to say, "Yep, I can do that." And because we had Polaroid, I could always check that I'd get it to a level that was, you know, acceptable. And then often I would get asked to do just like progress photography out at the natural gas plant. So I got lots of opportunities on smaller scales. And then, yeah, just grew from there.

Andrew Hellmich: So you've done a lot of commercial work, then, by the sound of it.

Tania Niwa: Oh, yeah, yeah. Heaps of, I really enjoyed the industrial commercial photography, and I did that in Sydney as well, in my first, when I was here at the start for Craig, who's a commercial photographer.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Tania Niwa: So, yeah, yeah. So the good thing about working with John and also Craig in Sydney was that you learnt never to accept mediocre and you really, really had to have a great understanding of strong composition and design, because when you're doing industrial photography, it's often really ugly stuff. You've got a photograph and you've got to work out, well, how do you make it look really, really amazing? And sometimes say, if you went to a sulfur mine or a plant, and it would look spectacular on Sunset, because the rust you wouldn't, you just see the silhouettes with amazing sunset, or you just had to work out with, obviously, you as an assistant, you'd see what John or Craig would do, and so you get that sort of great understanding.

Andrew Hellmich: So, so why would you leave New Zealand? You know, you have this amazing job with John, come to Australia and work for Craig, like I said, you did not start your own business at that stage?

Tania Niwa: I worked for John for nearly four years. I actually wanted to come to New Zealand, to Australia sooner, but because I had such a great job with John, I stayed there a lot longer than I would. It was just, I love New Zealand, until I came here for a whole day, and then I fell in love with manly and, yeah, I had, I had a an ex-boyfriend here. That was the other draw card. That was what brought me over.

Andrew Hellmich: So when did Tanya Niwa Photography start?

Tania Niwa: I think that was about 1999 or 1990. Oh, actually, I think I registered the business in 1997 or not. Yeah, back then, I'd worked for Craig for about a year and a half, and I was completely burnt out. We'd done, there was nearly 200 flights internationally. Within that time, we'd been to Hong Kong eight times, China, a few times, the US a couple of times, lots of remote areas around Australia for doing sugar, sugar cane CSR, so we had Leighton CSR and Rio Tinto also. So mining company, they were his three major clients. So having been responsible for 200 kilos of luggage, and getting up at five o'clock in the morning every morning, and then probably finishing work at really late at night, after you've gone out for dinner with a client. Then I'd have to come back and unload all the five by four sheets of transparency film, and I'd have to take my black, was it gaffer tape, and tape up the bathroom that I'd be in the hotel to make it completely light tight, and change all the slides over and all that sort of stuff. And then I have to make sure I charge the Norman batteries. And the pressure was immense. So after a year and a half, was like, "I'm done with this. I want to start my own business."

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so did you hit the ground running with your own business? You've obviously got a lot of technical ability, you know?

Tania Niwa: Well, no, I actually, when I decided that I didn't want to keep traveling overseas every week with Craig, and I really just needed to just stay put in and really, I wanted to work with people. So with industrial, you're working with people and industrial sort of subjects. But I really wanted to have, like, private clients, not commercial clients. I decided like to work with families again and do that, that sort of thing. So what I did was I got a, honestly, got another job because I knew that I needed to fund the photography business. So I actually got a, I went into the Avon head office, which is just down the road from our studio, actually, and I just said, "Look, I'd like to work on the packing room, or whatever you call it on." And they just laughed and said, "I think we can find you something better." And they gave me a job in the correspondence department. And so I was, ended up having a really great position in there, and I was able to finish at three o'clock in summer. And so still go to the beach and do shoots at five o'clock. So I'd worked, I'd probably work to about three in the morning because I didn't end up having to shoot and edit and then do my orders at night. And yeah, eventually that was all got too much.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm still stuck on the fact that Tanya Niwa was a an Avon lady.

Tania Niwa: Well, I wasn't an Avon lady. I helped the Avon ladies, it's pretty funny. They were actually a really good company to work for. I was very lucky. But I didn't have to go and sell Avon. I just had to help the managers that organized the Avon ladies.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm just kidding. I've just got to see the headline for this podcast now.

Tania Niwa: No, the Avon lady? No, they Avon financed or funded my ability to actually start my business.

Andrew Hellmich: Beautiful

Tania Niwa: Tell you what, though I had no idea what I was doing when I started, and I think for about three years in a row, I think I read, made a loss that was probably about $40,000 or something like that.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow

Tania Niwa: I had no idea. Yeah, I didn't know. I just invested so much money and going to, like, the mall and putting up a few thousand worth of display images. And, you know, investing a lot of money, but not really, you know knew what I was doing. So that's when I got a business coach.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, so how did you real, I mean, you obviously did the numbers and then, so why three years, sort of putting going back?

Tania Niwa: Was probably a couple of years but I think it was, wasn't it, was when I worked out, when I did my first promotion at the mall..

Andrew Hellmich: For the listeners that the mall is a massive shopping center.

Tania Niwa: The shopping center in Brookvale, yeah, when I did my first display there, I ran a, I mean, this is back in maybe 97 or 98 was, I ran a competition that, you know, win a thousand dollar of photography or something like that, and all the leads that I got, I got enough work for about six months’ worth of work. But what happened was, when I did the figures, the average sale was really pretty much like breaking even, because, um, yes, I just worked out the demographic of the client I was attracting wasn't really profitable, and so what I did work out from there, though, that there were three of the clients that were from the neighboring suburb, they really, whatever they appreciate and love they could actually afford to purchase. So that's when I realized that I should target my market to be Mossman, which was their suburb, and because they really, they really didn't focus on costs, they just bought what they loved, and they really appreciated the way that I could capture their family and my composition and design and that sort of thing. So that's when I made the big move to focus on, yeah, focus on the Mossman suburb, and that's, that's really where my survivor comes from.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so when you said you were doing the figures for those shoots, so you're basically doing a free shoot, and then hoping to upsell once..

Tania Niwa: I think they got a, I think a lot of them got a, from memory, like it probably was like $500 gift certificate, if I can, yeah, if I remember, rightly.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Tania Niwa: Yeah. And then, and then they would, yeah, some of them wouldn't do anything, and some would get, yeah, good, get extra. I mean, that sort of thing's been around forever, and I know people still do that sometimes, but that was back in, you know, the late 90s, and that was, that was sort of suggested by a coach that I had back then.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, I mean, and when I, when I think of you, I mean, like I said in my introduction, I think of businesswoman, you know, successful and business savvy. So how, I mean you go from going backwards, I know you said there that you mentioned that you brought in a business coach, is that was, was that the start of you sort of getting that, that savvy side happening as far as business is concerned?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, yeah, even just some of the really fundamental things that I remember being coached about was even when he came into the studio, he said, "You've got eight by 10 sets of three and eight by 10, this and eight by 10, eight by 10 inch images sprayed all over the place. How you ever going to sell anything bigger?" And I was like, "Oh, okay." So he said, "Get rid of every eight by 10 from display from the wall. So that size photo is not for the wall." And so I changed the photographs, and he said, "Work out what size you would like to sell and make that your most popular size. And if you say it's most popular size, it will become your most popular size." So I ,and I just now, and it has been ever since, the most popular size back then that I said, has always been the most popular size from for more than a decade.

Andrew Hellmich: So which is, what size?

Tania Niwa: So, so if it's if someone wants to framed family portrait, or the children together, it would be a 24 by 17 inch image with framed so that was way back then that I set that as my most popular size. And then for the canvas size, the 28 by 20 inch canvas, which is 70 centimeters, and that's the most popular canvas size. There's one size bigger that people like as well. But that was one of the really great things I learned, is if you work out what you, what you're comfortable with selling you. Then, and you make the most popular, you know, make it tell people what's popular, and she ends up being most popular.

Andrew Hellmich: That's funny. So, so what gave you the idea of getting a business coach, and how did you find him or her?

Tania Niwa: Okay, I think I can't remember how I came across. I think there was a seminar where there was, like a, like a free seminar, and you go and listen for a day.

Andrew Hellmich: Got a name, then you got a name, and then, sort of, chase, chased him up, did you? Like through the seminar? Or the seminar was just about getting a business coach?

Tania Niwa: I think it was like, you know, like an educational day, but then you, then you have the option of, if you want to sign up with that. So that's, so that's so long ago, but I've had, probably over my career, maybe on average, one every, say, three years.

Andrew Hellmich: A business coach?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, and I had, like my, had an action business coach. When I mentioned that, Lauren and I, when we worked together, we had an action coach for about two years, and we made phenomenal progress in the business just by having, where you're paying a hell of a lot of money, so you've got to be focused. You've got to make sure every week that you're meeting your coach, that you've actually done what you have set out to do. Otherwise, you're just wasting your money, because it's like, was over two grand a month for a coach, was like two and a half grand a month. And then I also worked with Steve Sabrina a couple of years ago. I just had two sessions with him. And, yeah, every time you work with someone, even Steve, you get lots of fresh ideas. Sometimes it's just nice to see, get someone seeing what you're not even seeing. Like he mentioned, I didn't have enough product out on display. I was like, "Oh, of course. Yeah, right." So then I made sure I got some of the acrylic tiles, and got those out on display and just changed, change things around. Yeah, you always get lots of great tips when someone else can see things that you just don't even see any more in your own business.

Andrew Hellmich: So when, when the coach comes in, say, for the very first time. So he comes in, he looks around the business, sees the wall prints aren't big enough. Does he? Does he go through your figures then? Or, you know, does he get right down to the new gritty? Or it just gives you general advice, and you take it or leave it?

Tania Niwa: Oh, definitely. When you've got a business coach, you go through all of the very finer detail of with, with that. With the first two coaches, including the action coach, we went through all the financials down to, yeah, really, really refined, because you also then, we worked out each week, what, what we'd like to or need to make each week to run the business successfully. Because back pre-recession days, I think I had around eight people that worked for me, not full time, but there was, I think, had three full time and then a few part timers. And you know, you really got to be really focused, because if you, you've got to be able to pay several thousand dollars a week in wages. So you also need to know how much you need to get from each sale back in that day. This is so not like this now, but average sale was 5900.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, right.

Tania Niwa: So that was, yeah, that was pre-recession days, and that's when I had lots of staff. But you have to, yeah. So we had to just really be focused each week on exactly what we needed to turn over and what we needed to make. So yeah, you do go through over the cost of sales. My cost of sales were 48%

Andrew Hellmich: Wow

Tania Niwa: Until we were coach, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay. So, so you don't learn enough from the you know, from the first lot of coaching, you actually get coaches in every couple of two or three years now?

Tania Niwa: It's not that you don't learn enough, it's that world keeps changing really, really fast, and you get, you can get set and doing things a certain way, and then you don't realize until you're either talking to your colleagues or you're talking to a focused business coach about how you could do something differently, you know, like the whole, like how the world is talking so far as that world's changed so fast now, you know every, every single person is asking for digital files, and not everyone wants photographs for the wall now. So, there's all you know, there's all of those different things that we're, we're challenged with, and everyone wants their priorities, that they want, something for to share with their family, whether it be on Facebook or what have you. So, you know, just having a coach every now and then can really, it's just like being ignited again.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. What do you get from a coach, a business coach, rather than, or as opposed to, you know, another photographer that you can go and chat to?

Tania Niwa: Well, a business coach is, is there, solely dedicated to focusing on you. You know what they can do, how they can help you? Where you're chatting with your colleagues are just, you know, it's a lot more casual, and you're sharing ideas with each other. It's not just sucking information out of one person and not returning anything, but with coaching, it could be the way that you like asking the questions. How are you communicating with your clients? Are you asking them the right questions to make sure that you're going to be able to photograph their families in the way that best captures the essence of their family? You know, it's just refining the questions that you even ask your clients. Like I thought we had a really great way that we communicated with our client, but with Steve, he gave us some other ideas about some other, some, you know, further questions that we could ask that I've never thought of before. So you might think you're already doing things and well, but you it's like, you know, you never know what you don't, you don't know what you don't know.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you want to, you want to talk me through the change from when things are going absolutely gangbusters, you know, you had the staff, and you had these massive sales, and then the recession comes, and there's been a big change between now and then, what have you seen in your business?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, focus in the business, it was really interesting how it'll happen. So before the recession actually hit, Laura and I went to WPPI for the second time, to the Vegas photography, big photography event. And I started three full timers back work in our studio, and I shared four full timers. We got back from there, and that week, three people, three families, had canceled their bookings. And we were like, "Wow, that's really unusual." And then from there, we just kept noticing it went, you know, the decline. And so Cosmos, is the people that live in Mossman are generally working in the business and the finance or banking sector, they were all really hit. They were hit before it was official, I guess, not getting the bonuses and things like that. So that affected us hugely. So we then had to really look at like, "Okay, well, if my main market is no longer spending money. They really, it's a complete luxury. Then we had to think, well, what else can we do?" And we'd already started looking at doing other things, like we'd already been focusing on doing commercial photography, like commercial headshots for entrepreneurs or professionals. So we'd been building that up slowly, and we'd already started working on photography workshops, because there was such a demand from our clients to be educated. So we and yeah, so we just made sure that we sort of didn't put all eggs in one basket, because we had put too many eggs in one basket. We had to just really broaden our options of what we did.

Andrew Hellmich: So you became a lot more focused on the portraits, because that was what was generating the most income for the business. Is that, right?

Tania Niwa: Well, we were getting most of that income was from family portrait and we were shooting a lot of weddings, but we realized over winter, you don't get as many portrait bookings and weddings. So we made sure that we were still getting, even though that, you know, businesses were affected by the recession pending, we still had, you know, we'd get bookings for commercial photography and, you know, photography workshops and that sort of thing. I was really, it was really, really challenging times. Like, I had to get rid of most of my staff like that. Like, yeah, we've, we've been through it all, you know, we're not, we didn't come out of it unscathed. I had to stop. I had luxuries, things like someone that worked for me three afternoons a week should do all our groceries, our cleaning, our lots of other stuff that things like that stopped immediately. Yeah. Had to make big changes in the studio, and also just make sure we trim down any excess. And just had to, we just had to get through it. I just had to have work with less people and try to improve systems even more so that there was less cost involved.

Andrew Hellmich: So where are you guys at now today?

Tania Niwa: What we've got is, we've got a really good balance of the where all our work comes from. It's the commercial photography. Yeah, it really is. At the moment, we've probably got sort of about 80% commercial photography at this time of the year, and 20% families. But normally the, yeah, normally for about six months a year, it's a lot, just as much family portraiture. But right now we're doing heaps of commercial stuff, and we still get a lot of bookings for workshops. So we do four workshops, like one per month over winter. So for small groups, we, and most of them that book are actually clients that have cameras and would like to really know how to use them. So there's that. And we also get a lot of people that book for private tuition, so four hours with me tailored to whatever they need. So sometimes they might go to go on little adventures, and it just depends on what suits that person. But I find that lot of fun, and it's really it's really exciting to see somebody. It was like that light bulb moment. We can see that they can now see what they didn't see before, and if their photography has improved out of sight just in this four hour period. And it's so nice knowing that they're walking away with some new skills.

Andrew Hellmich: So these the workshops that you're talking about there. I mean, I'm hearing so much about, you know, professional photographers running workshops now, like they're just popping up all over the place, but you're saying. Be more geared towards, say, keen amateurs with great gear that want to learn how to use it.

Tania Niwa: Yeah, that's right. Well, because I have my database of all my clients, we email out, you know, in advance when we're doing our photography workshops. And I also am part of a business group, which is called Business Network International, and it's BNI. A BNI group, so there's 30 people in our business owners that we meet every week. So they are also a great source of referrals for me, for the photography workshops as well. So yeah, most people, most people have cameras these days, and a lot of people do have an interest in photography. And I find come first of April, it seems like a change of season. People actually sit back and think, "Well, where am I going in my life? And what really, what really moves me? And what am I not doing I want to do?" And that ends up that it's photography. So I find a lot of people you know are really passionate about it, and it makes them, I guess it's a nice way to for them to stimulate themselves creatively. A lot of people have jobs that could be ones that they're not necessarily happy with. To do something like photography gives them a really nice outlet.

Andrew Hellmich: So, so these people that you're training, are they got ambitions of becoming professional photographers, or really, is just an outlet for them?

Tania Niwa: Very few of them want to be professional photographers. Occasionally, I'll get bookings for people that would like tuition on how to, maybe they're at the early stages of their business, and they're actually deciding whether they'd like to become full time photographers, and I'll teach them things like how to show their photographs using ProSelect, you know, the tool for how to sell their images. One what sort of systems that they could set up just to manage their files, how they should compose their photographs for really successful and, you know, compositions, that sort of thing, but yeah, generally, it's either mums, mums who have got great cameras and really want to take better photographs of their kids, whether they're toddlers or teenagers, or people that just have a real passion for photography. And I've even got some of the camera clubs involved, and they know when our workshops are coming out, so I sometimes get them booking as well.

Andrew Hellmich: I mean, obviously there's a lot of photographers listening to this podcast, and, you know, from all around the world. If, if things are getting quieter in the winter months, would this be, you know, something that would be worth pursuing and looking at, you know, doing some coaching?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, yeah. I think it's, um, it's really good thing to have on your website as an option, because obviously people are going, certain people will connect with you, and they may build up a rapport with you because they've worked with you. It could be that their family portrait clients or commercial portrait client, commercial clients and people you know, would they really enjoy coming back to you if they've already met you before? It's a nice, a nice thing to do. And also just people just scrolling your website because they just like photography. A lot of people check out other people's websites, and that's when they might come across that, "Oh, and that photographer who I really like their style, you know, does, does workshop", so you have that opportunity to have to share your knowledge with other people.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Now I do want to go into the database that you mentioned before, but I also just want to quickly ask you stated right in the beginning that you've made a conscious effort to sort of move away from weddings. So was it, Is that a business decision?

Tania Niwa: Yeah. Well, what, what we worked out, as with Lauren and I, when we were we were coached, we, when we did all of the we looked at all the profit margins and the cost of sales for the weddings, we worked out that initially, like I was getting average sales between about six and 8000 in total, you know, including their extra if they bought extra after the wedding. So sometimes we get up to nine, but between six and nine and it sounded like a lot of money, but when you, when we worked out that the album costs and the staff costs to produce all of that really wasn't that profitable, so we thought that, and the thing would what would happen was we'd have fantastic staff that could help do all of these weddings during the summer, but then I wouldn't want to lose them over the winter, so I'd carry them over winter, and then I'd lose all my profit from summer, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Tania Niwa: So, so, because I'd be, because I'd be carrying them, and then I have to pay super and tax and all that sort of thing. So we worked out that it was better to focus on portraiture and commercial photography. And I also, I also just, I couldn't work seven days a week. I was working seven days away, and I just literally blew out. I just thought, I can't keep doing this, you know, because you're Monday, you've got to, you know, be raring to go again for your portrait clients. And if you've shot a wedding Saturday and Sunday, or Friday and Saturday, Sunday, you could hardly move. I had my back is so twisted and, you know, all that sort of thing. So it was also physically, my back's a bit..

Andrew Hellmich: Totally understand, I totally understand.

Tania Niwa: Photographers' back, is that what we call it?

Andrew Hellmich: 72-10 lens all the time it gets becomes a pain.

Tania Niwa: Yeah, we'll be having two cameras with flashes and on each one, and lenses and takes its toll.

Andrew Hellmich: You mentioned cost of sales there a couple of times. So for any new photographers or someone new to business, can you just explain what cost of sales is?

Tania Niwa: No, you put me up, what are you talking?

Andrew Hellmich: You're the first person I've interviewed that's actually mentioned so much, a lot of business stuff, you know, looking so basically, is the cost of to actually do the job, isn't it?

Tania Niwa: Yeah. So basically, say what's involved directly to produce the goods for your clients. So it could be the, even like the mat, the matting, for when you're producing the photographs, the paper and the inks, all that, all that sort of thing. So what's really involved to produce something, as opposed to your fixed cost, which could be your rent. So no matter whether you get a job or not, you've still got to pay your staff. You've still got to pay your rent and your telephone bill and that sort of thing, so..

Andrew Hellmich: Do they come into the cost of sales or not?

Tania Niwa: Separate, that's it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So cost of sales is going to be direct, that the costs that are directly related to producing that or producing all the products for that particular client.

Tania Niwa: Yeah, including, like, your framing, that sort of thing as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And that's why weddings look like they just weren't as broad, they weren't as profitable on paper as, you know, as your portraits.

Tania Niwa: Yeah. Well, now, now with technology changed so much and Lightroom being so much easier to use. So we were editing in Adobe Cameron Raw Bridge, and it was a nightmare trying to do it fast in the old back in the old days, but things are so much, there's so many more options now. You don't even, obviously have to have the traditional albums that are matted. You know, there's much more modern ways of doing weddings now that, you know, like the weddings we do shoot, now we can make them, you know, more viable.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, now let me take you to this database again, you're the first photographer to mention database in these interviews.

Tania Niwa: Ah. It's not, it's not, it's not as exciting as it sounds.

Andrew Hellmich: Where would you be without it?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, well, that is the really good thing. So we, right in the early days, I just set up an Excel spreadsheet, and that's something I could share, too, if you like to see all of the subcategories I have within there, just, just making sure that I have people's email addresses and then keeping in contact with them. We use, yeah, sure. What do we use?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Tania Niwa: For the data, not for the data, on MailChimp. I always want to say, 'monkey'. We, yeah, we use MailChimp. So we just, we just load all of the new email addresses and every so often, keep them up to date. And what's really sometimes we feel like we're being a little bit annoying by sending emails out if we don't get much of a response. But say, you know, like, if it's for a photography workshop, and we say, "If we don't get much of a response, from time to time we then do get.." People go, "I've had your email for months, and, you know, I've been meaning to do this, and I want to buy this for my daughter", and I will even, even when I was on Celebrity Apprentice the other day, we weren't allowed to say anything about it until the day, or just like, about an hour before I went to go and watch the show with Canon, we just send a quick email saying, "Hey guys, we'd love you to watch Celebrity Apprentice." And so many of the clients replied and see that they would watch and so it's a nice way of being able to keep in contact with people. So they actually are reading the emails. It's just a matter of whether we've sent something that interests them.

Andrew Hellmich: So who goes into your database? Is it any client or any contact you've ever made?

Tania Niwa: So it's always just been any client, but we also, because I belong to a business group, they are also in our database too now, because they're kind of like sales people, sales reps for our business, they are always looking out for other people that would like to do photography with us and photography workshops. So they're, they're in it as well. Yeah, so it's generally people that I've done work with, because I don't also want to be just sending them to people like unsolicited sort of email, because I feel that might be, you know, might give a bad impression.

Andrew Hellmich: And how often do you send emails out, Tanya?

Tania Niwa: Would, it would definitely wouldn't be once a month, and but we would like it to be without Simona business development manager. It should be once a month, so she's just coming to get me covered too. We've actually done quite well in the last three months. We've had one a month, so you know, like for Mother's Day, the last photography workshop, and then the Celebrity Apprentice. But we definitely, definitely don't try to overdo it. But what we do, do is we are really active on Facebook. So in my blog, I blog a lot so and I put the blogs on Facebook, so that's then it's not in people's faces, it's if they choose to see it or want to see it, then they can be connected through Facebook or our blog.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you wouldn't put a new blog post up and then send an email to everyone saying, "I've got a new blog post."

Tania Niwa: No, just if people want to subscribe to the blog post. I mean, I'd love, I'd love to send it to all my database, but I just bit careful, because a lot of our clients are really, really discerning. Yeah. Just don't think they would. I don't know if they'd appreciate it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay.

Tania Niwa: It's just, yeah, we just want to only do it if they want to be, yeah, subscribing.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, so with these, with the emails that you send out to your database, what percentage of those would be a sales email? If you say, let's say you're doing one every, you know, 10 a year.

Tania Niwa: Oh, yes, yeah, they're always, um, so generally, just about every single one would be letting them know that something, about something such as the workshop or one, one time I did one just, just at Christmas time, the week before we closed, we let people know just one year I didn't go back to New Zealand. So I let people know that we're available for extended family portraits. And we got, we got some amazing results from that. So it's not always about "Book out. It's winter time. We've got cheap bookings going on", or what have you. It's just trying to think, "Okay, well, what would, what could work?" And at Christmas time, that was a great time to have the whole family, people, you know, extended families together. So it's just thinking what we can do and not try to always be too salesy, because it, sometimes it's nice to have something that's more news related as well. Because a lot of the clients that I work with, we see them so many times that we build up friendships with them. When I, any of my clients that have bigger orders, I deliver them to their place and, you know, we, you know, stay and might have coffee with them, and what have you. And, and sometimes the dads are home as well. So we really build up a rapport that they would never think of going to anybody else. You know that they really respect me and I really enjoy getting to know them a bit better.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. And are you, Tanya, you still using the Excel spreadsheet for your database?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, yeah. We've looked at, there's heaps better options and of which have been shown, but we just, we're still using that, that system, which I can, I can actually share that with you guys, if you like it, because we've got one that's a template that we can shared.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that'll be great!

Tania Niwa: I have that as part of something that I am sell for photographers, but I can give it to you guys, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: That's lovely. So do you? So you basically, then enter all the email addresses from the spreadsheet, drop them into MailChimp, and then do your mail outs.

Tania Niwa: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Okay.

Tania Niwa: But the Excel spreadsheet is really, really great from a point of view. So we get a lot of return clients that could be sometimes they like, might be two or three years later, but sometimes it could be between, you know, could be five years later that they come back. And I'd still got every single client's folder of images and their complete order and their framing details back from, I think it's 2000 in our storeroom. So I had a client last week and their children, their twins were four, and now they're 10, and I just we've got their folder on our desk right now with the exact detail. So what they love is they know that I can get the exact same frame, and they know what size photographs if they've got to get another photo for the grandmother, and they know the exact size, or we know the exact size, and all that sort of thing. So the database is great, because when she rang, I remembered her, but I could not remember her daughter's name, so I just as she was talking to me on the phone, I just typed in her surname, and then up comes the kids, the children's names and her husband's name. So it's a great, really quick way of being able to remember who everybody is.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay. And did you have things like birthdays in there? So you send out a birthday message?

Tania Niwa: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah?

Tania Niwa: We have always kept their birthdays and had their birthdays. And one of my close friends, who's a photographer, he's always sent out birthday cards. And she for like, 15 years, and I still haven't, only one client every year gets it, no one else. So that's the long term attention.

Andrew Hellmich: When do you ask for that information? Is that a form they fill out when they do when they book you for their portrait?

Tania Niwa: When they come in, we always make sure we have consultations. So when people come in to meet with me, because we like to build a connection, and we like to meet first, and we like them to see the level of what we can produce by seeing finished artwork on the wall, we get them to come in, and that's when I asked them here all about their children, their ages, their birth dates, each of their children's personalities. And you know, really what, how, so I can find out what, how we can really capture the essence of each of the characters in their family, and how we can connect. Because you might find occasionally, you might have one family member that's really, really shy, and if you pick on them too much, as far as, "Oh, you know you're not smiling." You know, if you're saying things because they're not smiling, to try and get them to smile, they could be just really embarrassed and not like to be too much, you know, attention on them. So we just need to know how to manage each person's personality, to bring out the best in them, and just be gentle with some, some kids more than others, or if someone like some mums, I go, "Oh, he's the larrikin of the family. He's the joker of the family. " And so I knew, you know, knew to make sure I give him lots of attention, because he likes, he like, you know, that this thing of a boy, a particular boy. And so he just actually embraced it. Instead of going, "Oh God, just won't do what everyone else is doing." You just go, "Okay, well, that's part of his personality." And the family actually chose a photo he just, he just blew off. That's what he just did, and they all just laughed, and he's looking around at them for a response, and that's the photo that they chose. When he's not looking at the camera, he's looking at the rest of the family for the response and smiling, and that's a photo they love, because they just thought that was hilarious.

Andrew Hellmich: That's great.

Tania Niwa: So, you've got to understand those sort of things, and by having those conversations, you get privy a bit more info.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you actually add information like that to your database as well, or that's just for the for the consultation?

Tania Niwa: That's all written down in my consultation sheet. So that's what information we need when we're actually at the shoot, and also when I have my assistant when we're actually driving to the shoot. My assistant then gets to also read all of that information, so she understands how she can connect with the children as well. But we don't need that. I don't write their characteristics in the database.

Andrew Hellmich: But you do get notes of all that on that booking sheet or that?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, and that booking sheet we always keep in our filings, in our filing system.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. That's unreal, Tania. Are you ready for these 10 quick questions?

Tania Niwa: Sure.

Andrew Hellmich: 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, go. Okay, here we go, Canon or Nikon. I know the answer to this.

Tania Niwa: Canon

Andrew Hellmich: That's because you're sponsored by them.

Tania Niwa: I actually was a Nikon user when I first entered the industry and but I, when I won photography the year 2006, they gave me a Canon so I shot with Nikon and Canon for several years with both, because I just couldn't give up one of my Nikons. I love, love the Nikon as well, but I had always dreamed of having Canon equipment. So, yeah, I've been with Canon, shooting with Canon for a long time.

Andrew Hellmich: Beautiful. What was your first ever camera?

Tania Niwa: I think it was a Nikon 801, is it?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I had a 601.

Tania Niwa: Oh, yeah. Okay.

Andrew Hellmich: What's your favorite lens today, and why?

Tania Niwa: Oh sure. My favorite lens, just simply, the most versatile lens is the 24 to 105, it's an f4, like I love bigger apertures. But it's just whenever I'm traveling, I will not go without that, that just covers most spaces. And you can, you can get away with most 24 to 105, like on family portraits, I'll use a longer lens, but that lens really does couldn't be without it.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. That's good to hear something a bit different. Do you shoot JPEG or RAW?

Tania Niwa: I actually shoot both at the same time. I always shoot a RAW, like always, and then we shoot a JPEG at the same time, because then what we do is we quickly put those JPEGs into ProSelect after we've renamed them, and then we do a really quick edit. Or it's not really quick, but we do an edit with those JPEGs, and we just post-produce. We just produce, say, the top 30, so if it was for family portrait, but if it's a commercial shoot, we really just, we just work with the RAW files. But if we ever need to have JPEGs processed quickly, that's just a good reference tool to have the JPEGs.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So you import the JPEGs into ProSelect, use that for your sales tool, and then price or then use the RAW files for actually doing the printing.

Tania Niwa: Yeah. Well, with the JPEGs, we still need to, you know, like, because they come out, you can obviously bring out more vibrancy in the images, but so we use those JPEGs, and we can just do some quick adjustments on those JPEGs for the viewing purposes. But yeah, we definitely go back to the RAW files, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. What do you think was the biggest breakthrough in your business? Yeah, the biggest from the very beginning to now. What was the biggest breakthrough moment?

Tania Niwa: Um, the biggest breakthrough for me is being an artist, as actually self-belief.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, yeah. How did you get that?

Tania Niwa: I had a client who was, she wanted some photography done for a book, and she's, you still, like, got a bit of a kick butt attitude, and she's faced some huge challenges, hurt itself in life, and kind of sort of just her being able to help me understand, yes, just working with her on my own personal self-beliefs and stuff. So going through a whole process with her, spending a day with her, and going through a whole bunch of stuff, because I think it's quite easy as an artist to have self-doubts and all that sort of thing. It's quite strange, but seems quite common amongst artists.

Andrew Hellmich: Definitely. What did she do to turn that around? Was like a day spent with was she, like, a coach?

Tania Niwa: Really, really, yeah, kind of like a coach, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was actually working out. Or what is your, what is it that drives you, and what is it that would drive you, make you want to get out of bed early and make you enthusiastic and energetic in your day. What is it that, you know? And what I worked out was is actually for it's really, really strange. The strangest thing from what I would love to do most is do another inspiration day in the hometown that I'm from, to the children that are between 10 and 12 at the school that my parents teach at. My dad's retired now, but my mum and sister teach at. I've done it in around 2001, that was actually bringing people back to the school who are really inspirational, and that may have actually been challenged as kids, and, you know, not had the easiest upbringing and that sort of thing. So getting the whole community inspired, and because the kids from the little town that I grew up from the age of nine, it's pretty blue collar and tough, rough town, there being a couple of murders in the town. And there's, there's, you know, as in lots of communities sexual abuse and alcohol and drug abuse and that sort of thing. So I, I wanted to, you know, help children have the opportunity to make different decisions. And that's actually what, that's one of my drivers, too. So the reason that to be successful in my photography business is it so I can actually do other things like my fine art and do my inspiration day and things that can help community.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. So she helped you to discover that or to bring that out?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, yeah. And I really didn't think that that would be my driver, and I just went, "Oh, my God, so simple." And it's not even about me, it's about my community. That's my job.

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome.

Tania Niwa: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: All right, let's keep pushing through, because I know you're on a time limit. You got clients coming. What software do you use for your batching, editing, renaming and renumbering?

Tania Niwa: Yep, yep, yep. We use Adobe Camera Raw to do the renaming. It takes quite a while for them to load in, which sucks, but we use that and then we use Lightroom if we are doing any big jobs, like, if it were editing a wedding or a commercial shoot, yes, she was using Adobe Camera Raw for processing the images and then using Photoshop until, until, you know, Lightroom 4 was so much better. We've just been using, using that to process the images and then use Photoshop extensively. We use lots of layers, and we use lots of adjustment layers as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Uh huh

Tania Niwa: Yeah, and, but we've just, we just went to seminar last night, and we've looked at Capture One is another option. So we're, we're actually going to, we're just testing that, Ash is just testing it today, because it looks like the output of the files is phenomenal.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice

Tania Niwa: And fine, really, fine grain.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Couple more questions. Do you actually watch what other photographers are doing? Or do you just lock it out?

Tania Niwa: I've got a lot of, like, probably a huge amount of, a big amount of really, really close friends and my colleagues are actually professional photographers, and we're all connected on Facebook, so we're all sort of keeping up to date with what each other's doing, more on a casual basis. But I don't tend to go on other people's websites too often to see what they're doing, even though I should, but I just kind of not like to be a follower.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure.

Tania Niwa: It's still good to see what other people are doing, of course, but just don't want to be copying what other people are doing either. But more, I love going to seminars and being educated by what other people are doing in that way, but not just for inspiration and systems and, that sort of thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. If you were to start again today, knowing exactly what you know today, what would you what would you do different?

Tania Niwa: I think I would have had a business coach right from day one, and someone that would help me understand all the financial side of things.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome, awesome.

Tania Niwa: A mentor. I would have had a mentor right from the star.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, as in, another photographer?

Tania Niwa: No, someone just who's very successful in their own right, but doesn't have to be a photographer.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so is that? Is that different to a coach?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, I've got, I've got so Darcy as a mentor, and I've also got a really close friend who was a client, who are very, very successful, they own their own marina, and a whole bunch of other things. And it's just great having, catching up for lunch and just sharing ideas. And I, she won't ask me questions, and I might say what challenges I've got going on. And she'll always have, "Have you thought about doing it this way?" Or she'll challenge me as well. And often I'll try to go, "Oh, but." And then it just soaks in eventually. And then you and then, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: That's great. I love that. That's an ex-client too. That's an or a client.

Tania Niwa: Yeah, an client.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's great. Last question, Tanya, or Tania, sorry.

Tania Niwa: That's all right.

Andrew Hellmich: What can you share an embarrassing photography moment or stuff up?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: You got, you say, like you got more than one.

Tania Niwa: No, no, no, I have one. I have one. And only, okay, so John Crawford was overseas, and I was, I said, "I will photograph the New Zealand president's rugby league team." So that's the one tier down from New Zealand Rugby League team. They were in our province to play a professional match, I think, against Australia. And there were all these great looking guys, very handsome looking guys, and they all came to the studio, set them up beautifully, and I had my friend there on the day said, "Look, whatever you do, remind me to take the slide out of the Mamiya."

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, oh.

Tania Niwa: Silver. After I've done the, yeah, after I've taken the Polaroid. And she said, "Tania, Tania". "Hush, I'm busy, I'm concentrating." That's all she wanted to tell me, and that's the one thing I didn't do. So the whole shoot was blank, so I didn't take the silver slide out.

Andrew Hellmich: Uh, uh.

Tania Niwa: I think I was 22 like that, but so that was my, that was my highlight of embarrassment and so bummed out.

Andrew Hellmich: What did you do? You must have thought the world was gonna end.

Tania Niwa: Oh God, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were so good looking. It was even more embarrassing, because they were all out, all out at the around Plymouth, and we're out that, you know, that weekend as well, so that you were like, "Okay, we've seen you somewhere before." I'll be like "No". Oh, their manager was, like, a keen enthusiast, so he knew that he ended up shooting without, yeah, me having to, yeah. So yeah. So I learned that lesson the hard way. I was used to shooting just a mere 645, so there was no slide. So that was sort of obviously my earlier part of working for him, screwed it up big time.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. That's a great story.

Tania Niwa: I think the battery had gone on the camera, so he didn't, he could still shoot with it, but it didn't tell you, like the lock, it would tell you if you had the slider normally, but the battery, she wasn't working to tell me that.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh no, your poor friend as well.

Tania Niwa: Yeah, yeah, she'd never let me live it down.

Andrew Hellmich: Tania, look, it's been an absolute pleasure. Can you tell my listeners where they can find you and check out your work and what you're doing?

Tania Niwa: Yeah, sure. So it's our website is tanianiwa.com.au, so that's T-A-N-I-A-N-I-W-A.com.au and on Facebook, it's actually Niwa Photography, if you look for that, because my personal page is just for my friends and colleagues. So Niwa Photography on Facebook.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure thing. And you on Twitter as well?

Tania Niwa: We are actually, I think it is Niwa Photography. If you go to our website, you can see you can just click on all of the links to those so you don't have to go to Facebook and to Twitter.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. I'll add links to all those in the in the show notes, Tania, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much.

 
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