If ever you were looking for someone to be accountable to, pushed even, in your business it'd be difficult to go past Steve and that became apparent in this interview where he covers a range of topics on how to generate great sales from every portrait session you do. Starting with your website and contact details to the first phone call, getting what the client wants from the shoot and structuring a profitable sales session.
Steve goes into detail about setting up the shoot for a great sale through better communication, how to lay out your price list to make it easy for your clients to buy and why you should never, ever, have discs on display in your studio. In fact, Steve believes there is no need for your client to ever see your price list.
Listen and be prepared to feel as guilty as I did about all the things you should be doing to have a great portrait photography business instead of an ordinary one. As Steve points out, why work harder when you can work smarter.
Here's some of what we cover:
Steve's webinar for ProSelect users
Steve has made available for all listeners, his training webinar: 8 Proselect Preferences that can Automatically Increase Your Sales.
You heard in this interview and many others now, just how important a tool ProSelect software is for maximising portrait sales. If you've ever used the software, you may be aware that there are many variables and preferences you can customise to suit your business. Most studios use the program with the default settings and don't scratch the surface of its capabilities as a sales tool.
Follow Steve's instructions to use the program more effectively. You can find the webinar here: Selling with ProSelect and the cost is $75.00.
If you've never heard of a webinar, it's a video training session or presentation, where if you are a live participant, can ask questions and get answers in real time. Often these webinars are recorded and can be offered as training videos after the event, which is what Steve has done in this case.
The beauty is, live viewers will most likely ask the exact questions you'd like to know the answers to during the recording.
Premium Members
You get access to the same great webinar above but for the cost of $29.00 – you save $54.00! For details on how to get access, jump over to the Premium Members area.
What is your big takeaway?
Following this interview with Steve, I'd love to know what your biggest takeaway is – what is the one thing that you'd like to implement or remember from what he had to share? Let me and know by leaving your thoughts in the comments below.
If you have any questions for Steve that I missed or a specific question you'd like to ask, feel free to add them below and he'll happily answer them for you. There are absolutely no silly questions and chances are, if you're wanting to know the answer to something, other listeners will too. Get the conversation started by using the comments area below.
iTunes ratings, reviews and Shout-Outs
Each week I go through the ‘”ritual” of checking for any iTunes review for the Photo Biz Xposed podcast and I'd by lying if I didn't say it's a real thrill to see a new post. It feels like a pat on the back, a sign of support, of community; and a little wink from you, clarifying that I'm on the right track with this thing.
This week I was blown away!
Thanks you so much Adam of Cavanagh Photography and Kristin Struve Photography – for leaving iTunes reviews this week, it means a lot and is a big help in getting the podcast discovered. Plus, it makes me happy 🙂
It is the iTunes reviews that make a big difference to the podcast being ranked well and found in the iTunes store. If you have the time and are happy to leave an honest rating and review, head over to iTunes. Don't feel your comments have to be long, involved or gushy, an honest opinion is all I ask.
Don't be shy about leaving your business name in the review either – that way I can add a link in the show-notes and show my appreciation with a proper thanks and a Google loving back-link to your website.
This week on social media and email, I've had the pleasure of chatting to a bunch of cool people and want to give shout outs to:
and the Ready Steady Pro Podcast and all the crew there: Mary, Rob, Lyn, James, Helen, Sarah, Phil, Lel, Lee, Neil and Michael.
You can hear my interview on the Ready Steady Pro Podcast by clicking here: Andrew Hellmich Interview
If you'd like to get in touch, ask a question or make a suggestion for the show, you can email me andrew@photobizx.com, find me on Twitter https://twitter.com/andrewhellmich or on Facebook at https://photobizx.com/facebook – I'd love to hear from you!
Do you trust me?
As you heard, I declined a generous offer of sponsorship from Squarespace this week. It was a tough decision but one I feel good about for now. My vision for this podcast has been from the very start to provide content so good that it's worth paying for.
I feel like I'm on the right track but I need your help if you want to keep advertising out of the show and continue to see improvements and hear cheesy sound clips.
If you are a regular listener who waits excitedly to hear see the PhotoBizX podcast show up in iTunes or your podcast app each week, I encourage you to give the premium membership a try. I know you'll get value from the content there and you'll be supporting the show in a massive way.
If you try and it's not for you, no problem. Just give it a try.
You can sign up and check it out here: Premium Membership
Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode:
ProSelect Portrait Sales Software
8 ProSelect Preferences That Will Automatically Increase Your Sales – Steve's Webinar
Post Card App from Australia Post
Send Out Cards – an easy way to send cards to your clients
That's it for me this week, hope everything is going well for you in life and business. I'd love for you to leave a comment below about your biggest takeaway from this episode or any questions you might have for Steve.
Speak soon
Andrew
Hi – great interview and thanks Steve for your knowledge and expertise, one quick question… I love the idea that you said to sell prints to your client in frames and have three different sizes at the same price, ranging in size. What happens if your client then asks why am I paying for this size print that suits my room but I could have the bigger one at no extra cost, but it doesn’t suit my needs so why should I pay the same price..?
thanks
Great question Paul. This does stem from the booking and the focus on service – seeking to understand them and the network of relationships that they present then ]creating meaningful wall art.
Once a client is buying from a place of pure desire – because we have listened and exceeded their expectations at every level – they can clearly see it has a place in their home.
It just is not something that has ever come up – from that place.
Should it come up though – I would remind them that they are not being charged more for the smallest one either. (My mentoring clients rarely sell an 16×20 – most are larger than a 20×30). We have absorbed the cost to make it easy – perhaps they would prefer the bigger one and place it in a more prominent position in their home? That would be my preference – as it is branded and will have more presence and possibly attract my next client more effectively than the smaller one.
After all – do you complain that you are being charged the same price for a pair of jeans that your mate also bought but he is 3 sizes larger than you???
Did the price of mobile phones go down as they got smaller?? It is more than their size that makes them more valuable.
Art is more than size – and the true value of what we do is more about our technique, how we interpret and translate what we see, our vision – not the size of the paper that we print it on.
Hope that this explains what I truly believe. We provide a valuable service – and amazing experience – and it starts way ahead of the size of the paper it is printed on. Focus on the experience – make it amazing – believe in your value.
Wow, just wow!
What a great guest to interview!
Steve has a quiet confidence about him that draws you in. And he had Andrew on his toes almost the whole interview. I’m on my 2nd time around listening to this interview and picking up on things I might have missed.
I absolutely loved this interview!
And thank you for not accepting SquareSpace ads. They advertise on every photo podcast I listen to and it’s getting annoying. And I’m certain the premium members are even more glad you did what you did.
But yeah, Steve was great to listen to. So calm, always with an answer that was quick yet so thought-out.
What’s crazy to me is getting to hear from all the different pros out there that all differ in their approach to sales.
Some say ProSelect and some say online only. You say to implement what we hear, but I seem to come to forks in the road from time to time. Which way to go? haha
But anyway, many thanks from the northern hemisphere, where it’s cold : ( burrrrr
Joey Joiner
Glad you enjoyed this one Joey – definitely no time to relax through this interview for me, Steve kept me thinking throughout.
I agree with you about all the different approaches and not knowing which way to turn when it comes to implementing… it can be a challenge. I believe the best approach is to pick one or two things if they resonate with you, decide if they are worth a try, then trial and test it. I know we can’t overhaul our whole business after each interview so the ‘trick’ is to find that one thing, no matter how small, to see if you can use it to improve your business.
For me personally, following this interview with Steve – I’m sending off an order for 3 canvass prints to go above the lounge in my studio and I’ll be revisiting my price list to simplify it a little more – I thought it was already simple but I think I can bring it back even further.
Neither of these changes will take too much time or effort and I’m thinking the return will be worthwhile after listening to Steve’s views.
No worries about the Ads thing – I’m not promising no ads ever but I didn’t feel it was right for this podcast, not with the growing support from photographers like you, who are always involved and commenting, the growing number of premium members, the emails I receive and and incredible iTunes reviews… I don’t want to spoil it.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family… stay warm!
Speak soon
Thank you Andrew. That’s very thoughtful of you to mention Thanksgiving : ) You’re so awesome!
Hi Joey – thanks for the feedback. It is always great to hear that people listen twice and are still getting more out of the information.
Totally hear you when you mentioned all the different points of view when it comes to sales. I can only talk about what has worked in all the studios that I have coached and trained. Many of them have come from a place of on-line galleries, others using Lightroom, or Photoshop to view on their laptops. Without a doubt when it comes to portraits, switching to a program that has been designed to sell with, has outperformed anything.
It makes sense right??? That is what it was designed for?? Also adding personal service to the equation by assisting your clients and advising what works with an in person Premier has to make someone more confident with any decision. That confidence also allows them to confidently invest in Art Work.
The photographers that I am training in the US through GoTo Training over the internet have had outstanding results when they have compared their results using ProSelect, and running a Premier for their clients – over anything else that they have tried. Of course having product for people to buy also helps the cause.
Keep an open mind when it comes to information. Some will resonate and make sense, and some will not. We are all a result of all the things we have tried in the past, many failures, and a resolve to never give up. Each failure is another step toward success, as long as we learned the lesson, and not allowed the failure to define who we are.
When I look back at what I was teaching even six months ago, I am astounded by how much the processes continue to evolve. I suppose I have the benefit of the results of many, to make modifications and tweak. Business is constantly evolving, and we must be flexible to stand strong.
My hat goes off to Andrew for taking action, as the biggest cause of failure today is our tendency to allow FTI (Failure to Implement) to run ramped though our businesses.
There are a few more discussions on my blog if you want to take a look
http://stevesaporito.com/improving-sales/what-would-steve-do-06-how-to-attract-more-clients/
Sometimes the differences in method differ because of the segment of the market that is being targeted and the level of service that you can expect for the price that you are paying. It is a balancing act and there are many ways of achieving results.
Success means so many different things to so many people. Start by asking yourself – what would my business look like if I were to feel totally successful in it. Work from there and plan for it to happen.
It is a journey, make it fun and worthwhile for your clients, your family, and yourself
Thanks for adding your detailed and helpful reply Steve!
I’m with you 100% on the FTI issue and am looking forward to hanging my new canvas series and seeing the results of a simplified portrait price list in the new year.
Don’t forget to add a link to your “Fired For The Month” videos or blog posts once you have them up – listeners and I would love to check it out.
Steve,
What a great interview! You can read my overall comment and what I took away and plan to take action on immediately! I did want to reply to you however and what your question was, “what would success look like for you”.
I say it would be just to have clients coming in, loving the experience and getting to really know some people. I am now living in a very small town where Walmart is the biggest store. The nearest ‘city” is over an hour away. The Walmart studio here in town I used to be the manager of actually and had an incredibly large client base or return clients and huge sales (I trained in sales and I have God given in person sales talents thankfully) when compared to the rest of the regions. We were always winning awards.
But, that studio went out of business after I quit (not BECAUSE I QUIT, but just because that company cut down their studios and I assume they didn’t see a benefit of the smaller sized ones being there) Anyways, a year after it went out of business I moved to the town (I was driving to run the studio) and I decided to open up my own photography business after 14 years in the industry working for other peoples studios. Problem was I quickly realized that I had the knowledge of photography, and lots of it, but not the business side. I knew how to sell, but not WHAT to sell. I knew I could sell anything but not a clue how to price it.
I invested in go4prophotos ‘the Thriving photographer’ program and it really changed things around for me. I learned about branding, what a target client it, and many other business things like what to sell, and how to price, and how to build collections that would sell.
The PROBLEM with the program however, now that I’ve been using it for a good year now is that it did work right off the bat, people loved the experience I made for them, full on luxury, boutique, in person premier complete with custom slideshows and fushion videos, even dessert menus and the dessert was served and ate while we watched the slideshow. The client was delighted in the whole experience, bought my middle collection (right where I wanted them to and had designed them to, some even bought my top collection) but I noticed NONE of them came back. Not one of them, and each collection even included a ‘complimentary session” in it!!!! See, the problem isn’t that they didn’t love the image, products, or the experience, its that they simply cannot afford to do something so BIG as a month to month or even every 3 months investment.
This community is oil fields, factories, and farmers. I simply cannot sustain a ’boutique’ studio in this little town, especially not being born and raised here.
So, I am at the point now where I see my past clients that had loved coming to me show up on my ‘competitors’ Facebook walls and they go to them. It breaks my heart. They go to them because they are cheap. Like really cheap. One does actually good images and she charges for her time (10 minutes is $30/ 20 minutes is $50/ 45 min. is $75 and an hour is $100) then she charges HER cost for the prints, oh and she GIVES the CD of all images to each session so the prints are just an added option if they want them! so ($2.25 for wallets, $2.50 for 5×7) where as I charge the same for all gift prints 8×10 and under, they are on linen paper and coated and ordered from a professional lab and I was pricing them at $35 a sheet.
Right now I have no clue where to go in my pricing. I have no one calling to book, no clients lined up at all, and I realize that that Thriving Program taught me a lot about how to run my business, but I think ive moved on from that and I am now looking for how to make my business WORK in this community. How to get people to come to me instead of the other girl that they know that has lived here her whole life and is charging that which I mentioned, totally devaluing the industry and undercutting every professional who is truly doing things ‘right’. There is myself and 2 other professionals in this town that own studios and have degrees,, training, insurance, state license for business, ect.
So I guess my point is, do you have any advice for this? I am headed to your blog now to read what you have written, but I am hoping you might have something. I am going to listen right now for another time to the podcasts as I do plan to implement some of it in my new pricing. I am working on new pricing and new branding at the moment because as I said I HAVE to figure this out and fast or Im going to lose my business!
And success for me, again is just having clients to shoot! Heck Im at the point of nearly wanting to PAY people to let me take their images! lol I really love what I do, have for so long, put in so many years of workshops and schooling and hard hard work to get to where I am and I dont want to lose it all.
Be Blessed and Be Inspired,
Tara Eveland
Hi Tara
Thanks so much for reaching out to me – and thanks to Andrew for giving us this wonderful opportunity to connect. You are what makes working in this industry so great.
It saddens me to hear stories like these, and you need to know that you are not alone in your endeavours. I have assisted many people that have been in a similar situation to yours and you need to know that you can turn it around.
It is great that you found a resource that was able to teach you about business, and that you actually reached out and did it. It seems that what the program you completed needed as an add on, was the ability to build loyalty and branding and to give you a competitive edge that was not about discounting and pricing. In that war – only the cheapest ever wins.
Building your brand on service and transformation of your clients is a way that you can charge well for your services as well as building loyalty that is not prove sensitive. The photographers that I train all have competition, some have had other photographers open next door to them – yes attached to their business, and yet due to the service and the loyalty that has been achieved due to the client focus, the competition has not at all impacted their business. In some cases it has helped them gain more business.
“But I gave great service” I hear you say, and I believe that you believe you did. These days we have to move them and find their inner soul, give back their dreams after we have rediscovered them and freed them of some of the shackles that life has dealt them along the way.
You see most people believe we are selling photography, an image, a print, a frame, your art. This is where my message is different. Photography is merely the vehicle, or the excuse that gives us permission to access people that need some sort of transformation in their lives. It allows us to explore their dreams, and what they value the most. It allows us to ask the questions that only “the hairdresser” normally has access to, and allow our clients to discover more about themselves than they have ever realised. So many of us live such busy lives that we brush past some of the most important parts of ourselves and the people that we love, and photography gives us permission to take a glance back, and really soak up that moment that we have been ignoring, re evaluate what is important and give our clients access to that gift every day in the form of artwork.
Give this to your client and they will hunger for more, want to share it with anyone they know, they will travel far and wide to have it. You need to give first in order to receive. I am sure that you did a fantastic job at photographing them, and a totally awesome job at posing, lighting and selling the experience. What I am talking about is an experience that is so focused on the client, that you need not sell at any point, because they desire what you offer so much, and they know that no one else will ever understand them as well as you did, because you saw something in them that no one else did, and gave them permission to be that person and love that person at a whole new level. There is no competition in this world of photography, not one that competes on price anyway.
So where to from here. You need to find out what your community really cares about. You need to reach out further. The clients that have come to me with similar stories have had all the excuses, that there is no money, no people, no opportunity, yet every time we changed that and found something that changed all of that.
What I know about those small farming towns is that farmers are used to writing big cheques for all sorts of things for the farm, big fuel bills, seed bills, stock feed, and the large numbers DO NOT scare them at all, if they believe that they are getting value. So now all you need to do is add value and allow them to buy.
What are they passionate about, what would they spend money on?? There is always opportunity. One of my clients that had all but closed her business came to me with a similar circumstance. In her area, people were selling their farms and moving out, so the towns people that she knew were all moving out. Some of these farms had been in the family for a number of generations, and there was no one left to work them, so they had to be sold.
And here lies the opportunity. Farmers have their land in their veins. They have fought for it, sweated and risked everything for it. Some years were great, others were lean, but they just kept at it, for they loved their farm. When it comes to the time for them to sell as all their children have moved to the city and are not willing to take on the farm they want something to leave a legacy with. Someone to document what their legacy was all about, before they sell. The swing that their father made for them, that their grandchildren now play in, that sits in a tree their great grandfather planted over a hundred years ago. The creek that gave them the peace and sanctuary, away from the stress of daily life – always welcoming and always calm. There is still a fishing line hidden in the reeds ready to go if you look for it.
We created art work and a leather album to celebrate their lives, add meaning beyond what we value (great lighting and composition), the camera is merely a tool that gives us permission to enter their world and discover the meaning behind what at first seams worthless, but is actually priceless – a fishing line and its story.
Usually there are large country fares where men and women alike gather. In Australia we have “Field Days” and the country comes alive every year. It is where the boys get to dream and buy bigger tractors, and the girls gather and enjoy the day too. They get to purchase a Photographic Experience for their family at a stall that costs the photographer very little, but stands out to them because they connect with the photos, and know that their family is spreading further and further apart, or the children will be moving on as they get older. They love the displays of their “Men in their Sheds” and the stories about what we have on display. It is time they had what they have always wanted – a family portrait and a chance to capture their family and their farm as they see it.
Run properly, these types of events attract thousands of people that are prepared to travel. They are also prepared to travel to you, and for a minimal cost of a stand and 3 days of our time, we have booked, on a numb of occasions over 50 Portrait experiences from one show. Sales averages traditionally tend to be high from these sources, of course it depends on how well you connect with them, and what product you choose to sell them, but they are loyal customers, and will refer you more people like them.
Visit your local Real Estate Agent, network, there is always opportunity – and it is usually right in front of you. Find away to give them a gift and never compete on price or discount or “Complimentary”. The value of a “Complimentary” anything is usually perceived by the client as pretty much zero.
Hope that this helps Tara.
Wow, thank you so much for the detailed response! The program I have built my business around is focused on the clients ‘experience’ with you, but its not something that the community around here is used to. The ’boutique’ type thing, so yes I need to find a new experience to really fit well.
Can you tell me what exactly you mean by going to a real estate agent for contacts?
I have thought of going to the farmers market. It is held once every month in the town square type thing, but what in the world would I set up? I have no shoots of farmers lol and I just started shooting outdoors really, I had been so into the ‘studio’ with poses and backdrops, even working for 2 backdrop companies as a sample shooter, but I have been doing A LOT more lifestyle photography (outdoors, just following what they do) of my own kids and love the images! I just dont know how to market that really to others.
Are you only available for coaching if you are local to you? You mentioned that you help photographers right? Thank you again for your answer, you are so right! Love your episode, so much info!
Steve is definitely available for coaching around the world and just returned from a trip to the States.
You’ll also be happy to know that Steve and his awesome business partner Kelly are featuring in a couple of upcoming episodes of the podcast to answer more questions!
There is a whole training program built around working with Strategic Alliances or Joint Venture partners. You could adapt this to working in the studio – don’t let that stop you at all. Its about REALLY understanding your clients at a whole new level.
Our membership with all the answers will be launched soon – stay in touch on https://www.facebook.com/intuitiontosucceed
Wow, thanks Steve, what a truly amazing response. Thank you!
Always a pleasure Andrew.
I loved this episode, and I have already implemented Steve’s suggestion to make our price lists simple and not charge different prices for different sizes, and its already had success! I am fairly new to the business of photography, and while I was quick to raise my wedding prices, I had ridiculously cheap shoot and burn family and portrait packages. Listening to this podcast gave me the motivation I needed to change that, I raised my session fee, and stopped offering hi res jpegs, and changed my product price list as Steve suggested. My wife thought I was crazy, but less than a week after doing this I booked a family session, and I sent her my product price list (half expecting her to cancel) and her response was thanks, and that she would most likely be interested in one of my collections (which start at $800)
So I have to say thanks for to Steve for the great advice, and to Andrew and all the other guests for motivating me to make these changes!
I tried to follow your link to your page and check you out but it said it couldnt be found??
Hi Tara – which link are you referring to?
The one to Steve’s site seems to be working for me: http://stevesaporito.com
Hey Terry – thats awesome. Now add a little fuel to the fire – check out this podcast I did on creating an Excitement Call with my business partner Kelly. It will change your world again.
http://stevesaporito.com/improving-sales/excitement-calls-the-foundation-of-successful-photography-business/
[…] Steve Saporito podcast interview […]
Andrew, yet another great interview!
Steve, from the little things such as the words we use to name our products, images vs photographs or art through to how our expectations directly affect the client.
I need to listen again, this time with pad and pen to take notes.
I want to implement the fixed price, love the idea of keeping it simple for the client.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Tony
Thanks for adding your comments Tony and good to read how much you enjoyed this episode.
You’ll be happy to know I have an upcoming episode with Steve and Matt (from Matt and Katie Photographers) and am asking for listener questions that are specific to their business.
If you have a question you’d like to ask, add it below or email me andrew@photobizx.com – you can be as specific as you like.
Thanks Tony – there is so many simple things you can do to grow your business that are more of a mind shift than a need to spend money. Glad you enjoyed it. I have a few other podcasts that may assist you. Head over to.. http://www.bmnet.us/qam017/
Wow! Amazing interview! This man knows what he is talking about! I have some BIG THINGS I am changing due to what he is talking about!
1. Im going to simplify my pricing
2. Im going to make my “love to sell item” which is at the top of each collection I have now be in my studio in different sizes, all the same image so I can show them and tell them “they are all the same price” Im going to do 11×14, 16×20, and because the cost of frames goes up so much after that I will have to check prices and either offer the 8×10 or maybe the size up. this is exciting to do! I have all the frames I sell on the walls, but nothing like this to think about, this will actually get them excited to see they get to pick their size, and its the same price and I am also going to rethink even having portrait collections!
3. The digital files. What he is talking about I have to relisten now, but wow I might just do away with them or include them in all portrait sales, that way they still get them for Facebook (which is what they are normally wanting them for) but by telling them they are not for sell they COME with the portrait print or product with the image in it!
I dont think ive ever had ‘takeaways’ I plan to implement, but this show I sure do! I hope you get more portrait people on soon! Love this!
Also Id love to hear from Brooke Shaden, Lara Jade, and Miss Aneila, any of them! A fine art/conceptual fine art episode about inspiration and shooting what you love!
Be blessed and Be inspired!
Hi tara – great takeaways!
You’ll be happy to know I’m in the process of lining up a fine art photographer for the show and that Steve Saporito will also be on again soon with a bunch of new ideas to get you thinking and implementing.
In the meantime, I know you’ll love the latest episode with Dean Mansbridge – a great family and children’s photographer from Tasmania Australia.
Keep us up to date with what you are doing Tara – Love it
Great podcast! I had to sit down to listen so I could take notes. But I can’t access the website. Is there a new link?
Hey Kaarin – glad you enjoyed this one and yes, Steve does have a new website at intuitiontosucceed.academy
You’ll have to check out the more recent interviews I did with Steve and the Q&A session with Steve and Matt, I think you’ll enjoy them.