169: Sandra Coan – A Killer Portrait Photography Business Shooting Film with No Props

169: Sandra Coan – A Killer Portrait Photography Business Shooting Film with No Props

 

Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest is maternity infant and family photographer Sandra Coan, from Seattle in the USA. In her previous life, Sandra was a kindergarten teacher and has since built a terrific photography business over the last 15 years. Sandra is also the co-founder and editor of Little Bellows, an online community of film photographers and soon to be a print magazine. She takes a minimalistic approach to her photography and doesn't pose babies or use props, uncommon and refreshing amongst modern baby photography, and when you visit her website, everything you see was shot on film. I'm really excited to welcome Sandra to the show. Sandra, hi, welcome.

Sandra Coan: Oh, hello, thanks for having me.

Andrew Hellmich: My pleasure. So why the fascination with film?

Sandra Coan: Oh my gosh. Where do I even begin? So I've always been fascinated with film. My dad was a photographer when I was growing up, and we actually had a dark room in our basement, and one of my very, very first memories was sitting down in the dark room with my dad, watching him develop photos. And I just remember thinking it was like magic, you know, like you put these pieces of paper underwater, and these images appear, and it was amazing to me. And I kind of, I guess that sparked it, and I've been fascinated with film and photo taking forever, really, my whole life.

Andrew Hellmich: So did you ever go to digital?

Sandra Coan: Oh, I sure did.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you shoot them both now, or have you just, you're primarily film?

Sandra Coan: I shoot them both now, but primarily film. And I tell this story all the time because it's kind of comical now, in retrospect. But my transition to digital was not a graceful one. I kind of felt like it was something that I had to do. I'd started my career shooting film, obviously, because that's where there was. And in about 2004 - 2005, you know, I felt like people in my, you know, community were all really making the move to digital. And I felt like, "Okay, well, I'm going to have to do this." And so I took a workshop, and I'll never forget it, because I was pregnant with twins, and so I was kind of emotional and crazy anyway, because that's what happens sometimes when women get pregnant. Sitting in the back of the class and listening to the instructor talk about digital and how, you know, we just needed to do this. And this is the way the industry was going, and if you didn't, you were going to be obsolete, and all this stuff. And I actually started crying, like, okay, yes, I was pregnant, but I was also, like, so overwhelmed, like I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna have to relearn everything." And it really felt that way to me. And so when I started shooting digitally, I tried to approach it and just shoot the same way as I did when I was shooting my film cameras. And it didn't work. It didn't look the same. And I really did feel like, "Oh, I've lost my ability to take a decent photo." Like, what has happened? And then it was this kind of painful process of almost relearning it all, you know, because digital sensors do read light differently than film does, and especially earlier on. I mean, cameras have gotten much better over the years, but I had to really relearn, and really kind of relearn how to use light and how to get my style. And I, you know, I went for it, and I tried it, and I shot exclusively digital for probably, like, four or five years, and then one day, I just kind of was thinking about it, and I was like, "Well, why don't I just go back to doing what I know works." And, you know, went in, I picked up one of my old film cameras, and I shot a roll of my kids playing Legos or something, and it just was like, like, exhaling, you know, like..

Andrew Hellmich: Felt good.

Sandra Coan: I can like the way the shutter sounds, and I like, I like the whole process of it, and then, you know, you get the film back, and it's like, "That's the look!" That's what I wanted to look like. And so I just decided then that I was just going to start doing this again. And the funny thing is, is that even though I had done it my whole life, and even though I, you know, shot film at the beginning of my career, when I then went to make the transition back to film from shooting digital, that felt really scary too. It was just like this really weird time in my career where I felt like I really couldn't do either one really well to my standards. It was weird because then it was like, "Oh yeah, reminding myself how film works, and it's not my digital camera and I can't shoot, you know, 500 frames at a session", and you know?

Andrew Hellmich: That would be expensive.

Sandra Coan: Yeah, so that was a whole new retraining, but I'm glad I went through the process, because now I just love it, and I really don't feel like my work would be the same without it.

Andrew Hellmich: So how do you choose now if a client comes in for, I guess what I'm going to call a regular shoot. How do you decide whether to shoot film or digital? Who chooses?

Sandra Coan: Oh, I choose. And usually, how it happens is, I always grab my film camera. Actually had this kind of comical thing happen last week where client come in, went to go get my film camera, and for some reason, my Contax wasn't triggering my strobes, and I couldn't figure out what's going on. So I was like, "Fine, I'll just grab my digital camera.", and I couldn't find it, and then I couldn't find any of my CF cards. I'm like, "Where's everything?" So it's gotten to the point where I do shoot films so much that that's just my go to and then there are just some sessions that I will go for my digital camera if I'm in a really tricky lighting situation, like I'm going into a hospital or something like that, or, you know, sometimes I'll do headshots for corporate work or something like that. Then I'll shoot that digitally. But all of my newborn and families and that in the studio are always filmed.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. I want to get into the numbers and things in just a sec. But sure, do your clients, do they even know that you should film? Or do they care? Or do they know the difference?

Sandra Coan: It's funny, you're the second person to ask me that this past week. It is really interesting, because nobody ever asked before. You know, for the longest time, I didn't tell anybody. I actually just put a blog post on my blog last week about this, but I don't necessarily know if they care, as long as their images, you know, what they get at the end of their session looks like what I have on my website, right? They're wanting that consistency, and they're wanting my style, which is why they are hiring me. And so I don't think that they care if that style comes from film or if it comes from digital, but they do think it's interesting. Once they get here and they see, you know, what's happening. And when people come in, I always say, you know, we go through the whole "Hey, how's it going, and this how the session is going to go." And, you know, all that kind of stuff and that, you know, as we're sitting down to do our thing, I'll say, "Oh, and by the way, just so you know, I do shoot film, so the flow of the session might be a little different than what you've done in the past. If you've worked with another photographer."

Andrew Hellmich: When you say different, do you tell them it's going to be slower, or is that I do it's going to be shorter? Or?

Sandra Coan: Oh, it's never short. Well, yeah, I guess it is shorter. I tell them it's going to be slower, absolutely. And you know what? It's lovely. That slowness used to freak me out. I mean, when you go from shooting digital and you're sure to shoot me like, give a toddler, and they're like, running around the studio, and you're just firing off a digital camera like a machine gun, to all of a sudden stop and be shooting, you know, a Contax, you know, or a Rolleiflex, you know, I'm 10 frames on the Rolleiflex, like, that's, that's scary. And I do like to, just to kind of prep people, you know, it's like, you know, “Trust me, I'm gonna get the moment. I'm gonna get this. It's just, but it is gonna be slower, and it's gonna be a little different.” I don't know, most of my clients really love it. And you know what it creates, what that slowness creates, too, is this real opportunity to connect with your client. Because, you know, I'm never looking in the back of my camera, because there's nothing to look at. I always like, you know, you're talking especially people with newborn babies. You know, there's so much of being a newborn photographer is also about being a counselor, you know. And like, understanding, like, "I know, like, it is hard, it is crazy, I know you don't know what to do with that baby, and they just made you take it home. And it's really scary, and it's okay", you know? And so part of that, not like being able to look beyond my camera and helps me connect with my client. Does that make sense?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it does. It does. But I'm curious. You've got 10 rolls in the roller flex, for example. Are you doing sums in your head? Are you adding up the cost of each shot? Are you worried that you're going to miss that decisive moment? Like with a digital you can just keep shooting till you get it, and you don't even know if you've got it.

Sandra Coan: I know, but you do know with film, because yeah, oh yeah, I'm watching it, like I know. And you know, and I've been doing this long enough now that I've kind of got it worked on to a science. You know, when I teach classes, I always tell photographers, you need to have a consistent, predictable routine. Consistent, predictable routine, like this is what you do every time people come in. And you know, there's variations within that, and you know that make, you know, sessions special. But I have such a consistent, predictable routine, especially when I'm in my studio, that I do know it's like, you know, I know a newborn session, I'm going to shoot four or five rolls, you know? And that's a lot for me. I usually keep it at three to four rolls.

Andrew Hellmich: Are these 35 mil or medium format rolls?

Sandra Coan: Medium format.

Andrew Hellmich: So all medium format.

Sandra Coan: Yeah. So if I'm shooting, you know, on the 645, the Contax 645 which is kind of my usual go to camera, I'll get 16 frames on a roll.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and for the listener who is not familiar with the Contax 645, does that look like a regular camera, just a bigger version?

Sandra Coan: Yeah, it does. It does look like, kind of like an SLR, just much heavier, which is nice. And then the Rolleiflex is that beautiful classic, you know, twin lens, like a Vivian Meyer, you know, a lot of people.

Andrew Hellmich: So you're looking down through a waist level finder.

Sandra Coan: Yeah. And what I do with the Rolleiflex is I actually mount it on a tripod, and that's really fun.

Andrew Hellmich: With wheels?

Sandra Coan: Yeah. And then, well, not with, I have my strobes on wheels, but the camera I just keep in one place. I always tell my clients, it makes me feel like Richard Avedon, you know, because that's what he would do. He would put his volatilizes tripod, and then he would just look up and, like, tell people stories or lies or whatever, just to get reactions, and then hit the shutter. So those are always my Richard Avedon moments.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So if you're shooting with the Rolleiflex off the tripod, I'm picturing you're in the studio, and that's a newborn that you haven't, you're not chasing toddlers around the studio with that camera.

Sandra Coan: Not with the Rolleiflex. No.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, very cool.

Sandra Coan: Yeah. But I do chase toddlers with the Contax.

Andrew Hellmich: So you've got big biceps.

Sandra Coan: I know, I get in for a lot of massage.

Andrew Hellmich: Now I do want to move on, but there's two things that are stuck in my head here. What did you do with the strobes that went firing? How did you get around that the other day or last week?

Sandra Coan: Was the craziest thing. So I went to my trusty camera store who I've been here in town. I've been going to them since forever, since beginning of my career, and I know the guy that runs the lighting department, his wife actually used to babysit my kids. And I was like, "Dude, what is going on? My Contax wasn't firing." And apparently it's a weird thing with the Contax that sometimes if you're mounting your trigger on the hot shoe, it'll short it out. And so, yeah, well, you know, Contax are beautiful, lovely cameras, but they are fussy. They're fussy. And so he suggested that I put a little piece of cardboard in the hot shoe, and then I could still put my trigger on there, but it wouldn't connect to the camera, and then just sync the trigger to the camera with a sync cord. So I've done that and I haven't had any other problems.

Andrew Hellmich: What did you do at the shoot?

Sandra Coan: I said, "Oh, pardon me, I got to find my digital camera."

Andrew Hellmich: Wouldn't got the digital, you found it.

Sandra Coan: Yeah, I did. I found it after a few minutes, and I did do one roll for them on the Rolleiflex.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and who was this other person that asked you the similar question? That has me intrigued.

Sandra Coan: Oh, yeah, this woman that I'm working with in California, and she asked me, she was like, "Why?", I do you shoot them. Then she's like, "Why don't you have it on your website anywhere?" And it's like, "Huh?!" That's a really good question. I don't know. And then, of course, like, the next day I put it on my website, people want to know, that's really interesting.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I think it separates you from the crowd. That's something unique.

Sandra Coan: Yeah. And people see it like, I have people comment all the time about, like, people will hire me because they'll say, "Oh, your work doesn't look like everybody else's, or your work is so different, or it has this quality", and I think people see it. They just don't know what they're seeing. And so it was a good idea just to put it out there and be like, "Oh, this is what you're seeing. It does look different because it is."

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So how many shoots are you doing on average? Say, per week?

Sandra Coan: Per week, my average this time of year is three to four a week, and then that goes up in the fall.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so three to four a week is a quiet week, or that's an average week?

Sandra Coan: It's an average week. That's my normal week. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And do you space those out then, you know, one per day? Or do you try and get four done in a day? And that's it for the week as far as shooting goes?

Sandra Coan: During this time of year, I give myself a break and I do one per day. So I usually do, you know, I try to get newborns in during the weekday, because parents are usually on maternity leave, and then family stuff on the weekends, when mom and dad need to be off work, and then during the fall, during that crazy fall, gotta get my Christmas card photo season, I'll do three or four in a day, but I don't like to do more than four in a day, that hurts my body, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And is it just you in the business, or is there other people helping behind the scenes?

Sandra Coan: It's me in the business, and I do have a couple of great ladies who work for me seasonally. So when things start getting crazy, I get some help, which is nice.

Sandra Coan: Okay, awesome.

Sandra Coan: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Let's get into the workflow in a minute, because I'm imagining it's a little bit different with film. But what is the average spend for your client? What are you bringing in to the studio?

Sandra Coan: What am I bringing in per client?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Sandra Coan: My average right now is around 1000 to 1500 a client.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic.

Sandra Coan: Yeah. So sometimes a lower, sometimes a little higher. You know how it goes?

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Sandra Coan: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: You're one of the photographers that are happy to have your prices on the website. I can see them there clearly. Have you experimented with and without having prices on the website?

Sandra Coan: You know, at the very beginning of my career, I didn't have prices on the website, and, you know, and then you'd get all the emails in and, "Oh, I'm looking for, I just need one picture. I just need one picture. My budget's $50." You know, like that kind of stuff. And so what I have found, and what has worked for me and my clients, is having my prices on the website, puts it out there. It weeds out a lot of that. So I know that by the time people contact me, they pretty much already know what they're going to spend. Most of my clients come in knowing already what they're going to buy, which I know is unique, you know, like there's, it kind of eliminates the need for a lot of the sell because it's already up there.

Andrew Hellmich: Which is the most popular package that you have here?

Sandra Coan: Most people love to get the, they'll come in, they'll do a session, and then they'll get the eight by 12 album.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And so that's the actual size of the album is eight by 12? And it takes eight by 12 prints?

Sandra Coan: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Or five by sevens go inside it, slip into an eight by 12 size?

Sandra Coan: No, it's a flush mount album. And so, yeah, so they're eight by 12. It's beautiful. It's really stunning. Because, you know, the bigger pictures get, the prettier they are. And it's a lovely album.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. Okay, so they would come in on your $350 session fee. And then once they see their photos, is that when you do the sale, like, is that when you upsell to the album?

Sandra Coan: No, see, this is the Sandra Coan trick, but I will share it with you.

Sandra Coan: All right

Sandra Coan: I am one of the weird photographers who I don't do sales sessions afterwards, and I know everybody's like, "What? That's crazy." But I have a good reason for it, so this is what I do instead. First of all, I live in Seattle, and we have, like, some of the worst traffic in the nation, getting you know, places is hard, so I know it's stressful for my clients to come in, and so what I do is we do our session. We've had our time together, and at the end of the session, while they're already in my studio, and we're kind of riding on the high of the shoot. That's when I pull them aside and I say, "Hey friend, this is, you know, this is what I have to offer. These are our products. You know, there's this album and there's this album and there's this album, there's these prints." I keep it very simple, and I say, "This is the most popular, and this is pretty, and grandparents love this.", you know, or something like that. And then most of my clients order product then and there at the session, before they see their friends.

Sandra Coan: And pay for it on the spot?

Sandra Coan: Uh huh, yep. And then it's kind of a seamless process, because then I send my film off to Richard Photo Lab, and then I get my scans back, I get everything done, show the clients their gallery. They're like, "Oh my god, I love it." And then while they're looking at it, I put together their albums.

Andrew Hellmich: This part's happening afterwards, isn't it? So you've sold the album at the session time.

Sandra Coan: Uh huh

Andrew Hellmich: And let's say they've picked the eight by 12 album, the flush mount, so they know they have, is there like, 10 sides in that album, or 20 sides?

Sandra Coan: It's 10 pages, five slides.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay. So it takes 10 images.

Sandra Coan: 10 images. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so 10 single page images. So that's what you've sold them. They haven't seen any photos yet, but then they're choosing the photos from the online gallery to go into that album that they've paid for. It is that what you're saying?

Sandra Coan: Sometimes, most of the time, honestly, they want me to do it for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, pick the photos.

Sandra Coan: Pick the photos, so you know, and some clients even are just like, "Just pick on whatever." Especially people who've been working with me for years, they're like, "Just do it. And that's fine." And so I'll send out the gallery. The same day I send out the gallery, I build their album that gets ordered, and then when everything comes in, I send them their product. So I'm really only requiring my client to come in to see me in person one time, and then everything's super easy-peasy for them, which for my clients, works out really well.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. This is beautiful. What a great workflow. It's fantastic.

Sandra Coan: It's really great. And it works for me and it works for them, and we're all happy. Sometimes people want to choose their photos, and that's fine, or they'll want me to, you know, give them suggestions. And you know, there's always exceptions to the rule, but the majority of clients just have me do it for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay? And where are you ordering your albums from?

Sandra Coan: I use WHCC for the albums.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so you design the albums in that time or while you're, you know, you've done the design and you're waiting for that to come in. The client receives their edited, I guess, digital files, and some four by six gift prints as well.

Sandra Coan: Uh huh

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So they've got something in the meantime until the album arrives.

Sandra Coan: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, on one of your prices you've got here, you've got a bundle, whether you have two shoots or three shoots in one year, and say the three shoot one is $950, is that a popular option?

Sandra Coan: It is actually, that's a real popular option with the newborn clients.

Andrew Hellmich: So is that include a maternity shoot?

Sandra Coan: Sometimes, you know, I don't call it anything other than a bundle, because I don't want to pigeonhole people into thinking about what it is, you know, I want to be able to say, "You can have two shoots in a year, or three shoots in a year,." you know. So that way it kind of opens it up for people. What most people do is they come in for their newborn session. We have a really fun time. And then at the end of the session, when I'm saying, "Hey friends, these are the products." And I'll say, you know, "Which package did you want to sign up for?" And they'll say, "Can you remind me of the packages again?" And I'll say, "Oh, you bet." And then, you know, "You can do, you know, the sitting fee today, which pay for today's session. You can bundle two in the year, so you can come back in six months or in a year, or you can do three in a year." And then, you know, each bundle, they save a little bit more money. And so most of my newborn clients will sign up for the bundle, the three in a year.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. What a great business.

Sandra Coan: I love it.

Andrew Hellmich: That's fantastic. And so just Sandra after the shoot. So you finish the shoot, you've done your sales session, you've got four or five rolls of film. What's the next thing? So they get sent off to Richard Photo Lab, and that's it until you get the scans back.

Sandra Coan: Yep, which is brilliant. I mean, that's another, like, fantastic thing about shooting film is I always say you just do it the way the Lord intended in your camera, and then you're done. And it's great, you know? So then I go have dinner with my family, and I enjoy myself, and then the scans come back. And when scans are back, I do a cold, maybe do some light edits. I mean, the nice thing about film is that, especially with skin, film is so kind to skin. And anybody who's ever worked with newborns before, they can be all flaky and, you know, all of that kind of stuff, or they can have little baby acting or whatever, film just kind of like magically washes that stuff away. And it's amazing. My edit time is very, very small, but, you know, sometimes I'll do it, I'll go and I'll do some quick edits, and then I rename them, and then I upload them the gallery.

Sandra Coan: And when you get the edits, are they coming back to you? Are they in RAW format, or are they a JPEG file? What do you get?

Sandra Coan: I get a scan JPEG file from the lab.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're working from JPEGs. You bring them in the Lightroom, do your editing there, or is it Photoshop?

Sandra Coan: I do in Lightroom.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and then upload to the gallery, and then you're pretty much done.

Sandra Coan: Uh huh

Andrew Hellmich: I love this.

Sandra Coan: I know. I know, I have everybody shooting film by the end of this, like, "Why aren't I doing this?" I'll be like, "Yeah, I know. Why aren't you?" It's amazing.

Sandra Coan: Well, the big thing that comes into my head is the cost of the film.

Sandra Coan: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: What are you paying for a roll of film?

Sandra Coan: The cost of film is real. I mean, that is like, that is real. And so if you were going to shoot film, you have to be smart about it, and you have to make sure you're making it work with, you know, what you're charging and how much you're shooting. But my film of choice for color is Fuji 400H and I buy Pro Pack. So a Pro Pack comes with five rolls of film. And again, that's 120 film and a Pro Pack right now, I think it's about 38 to 40 US dollars, depending on, you know, where you're buying it from.

Andrew Hellmich: Uh huh and you're shooting four to five roles?

Sandra Coan: Yes, okay, yeah. So you start doing the math, and you're like, "Dang!".

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I'm just, I'm adding it up.

Sandra Coan: Yeah, no, add it up. I know I added up all the time, every couple months. And then I'm like, "Why am I doing this?" And then my scans come in, and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that's why."

Andrew Hellmich: And what about the scanning costs? Do they add a lot to the cost of the film?

Sandra Coan: Yeah. So scanning cost at Richard, I believe a color roll is $19 and change per roll. So if I shoot four rolls, my processing fee is usually between like 76 and $82 and then you add, say, $40 on top of that for film, right?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, but it's not crazy expensive if you're saving yourself a lot of time in post, if you're doing the same work in post as if you shot digital, and you have to start to question it, I guess.

Sandra Coan: Yeah. And honestly, when I was shooting digitally, I had a full time assistant that I paid to do my processing because I really didn't like it and so it's kind of a wash, you know? It's like I have a full time assistant who sits in my studio at my computer, or I have a lab who, you know, processes and scans my work. So for me, it kind of was a wash.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, when the lab does the processing, do they do any retouching at all? Are they doing any adjustments? Are they just giving you the best quality scan they can give you with the files you've provided?

Sandra Coan: That really depends on the lab that you use. And one of the reasons I love Richard Photo Lab, I think that they are just like the gold standard, but they give you the best quality scan you can get, which is nice.

Andrew Hellmich: You've got something pretty usable as soon as you open up those scans.

Sandra Coan: Yeah, it's amazing. There are many times where I'll get scans back, and the only thing I do to them is cull and rename.

Andrew Hellmich: Serious, like, really?

Sandra Coan: Seriously. It's amazing. And, you know, I think of like, what my post production used to be. Even with having an assistant on who was doing all my processing, I would still do all my culling, and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I mean, my processing has gone from literally hours to sometimes minutes. I mean, it's amazing.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, that is awesome.

Sandra Coan: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: So you're sticking with film. That's what you're telling me.

Sandra Coan: Yeah. That's what I'm telling you.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, so what about the actual process? How did you get to the stage where you're doing no posing, no props? Did you experiment with all those things and come back to where you are, or you just never even introduced them in the first place?

Sandra Coan: I kind of never introduced them in the first place. And part of it was, I want my photos to tell a story for me. Now, I just want to say this. This is for me, like there are plenty of people who pose babies, and they're really good at it, and they love it, and that is their thing, and more power to you, but for me, the story of those pictures never made sense. Like, you know, you'd see these little babies and they're all wrapped up and they're like, you know, hanging from a tree or something. And I'd be like, "Why is that baby in a tree? Like, somebody helped that baby?" It never made sense to me. And I just felt, I don't know, like, I like my babies took, like, just the way they are, and that's really important to me. I really believe in the idea that I'm a portrait photographer, and my job as a portrait photographer is to capture the essence of whoever I'm shooting on film, like, quite literally on film, you know. And I feel like that's the same if my client is 85 or five or five days old, you know. And it's so fun. I wrote about this on my blog actually. It's so fun when you take a baby and you just lay them down the way babies are meant to be laid down, and you watch them start doing their little baby thing, you know. And every single time, every single time, you know, at some point the mom will go, "Oh my gosh, that's so his face." Or "We have a, we have an ultrasound picture of him doing the exact same thing." Or, "Oh, she came out with her arms like that." Or "She totally does that. She looks like her grandma when she..", you know, whatever, and that's the portrait, right? That's like capturing something that they recognize in their child. And I think that that's really important. And it's just, it's also a way, I mean, if you want to look at it from a marketing perspective, it's a way that I can set myself apart from all the other newborn photographers in my market, which there are a lot of.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure, did you ever see other photographers' work? Maybe not necessarily hanging from a tree, but let's keep it to the studio. And think, you know..

Sandra Coan: That was an extreme example.

Andrew Hellmich: I totally get what you're saying, but I guess I want to dive a little bit deeper into your headspace and do you ever see other photographers work and think "That is gorgeous. I should be doing something like that."

Sandra Coan: Yes, I think everybody does. And honestly, I think that that's the danger. I actually had this kind of moment in my career. This is a super long story, and it gives some insight into how I didn't always know what I was doing, but there was a period of time where I felt like if I was going to be a professional photographer, I had to shoot weddings, because every single person I knew who was a professional photographer and who made money shot weddings. So I started shooting weddings. And what makes me laugh even more about this story, and it's a little embarrassing, is that not only was I shooting weddings, I decided I was going to be a photo journalistic wedding photographer, which is hysterical, because everything about my photography that I do now is so controlled. I like things very neat and clean and going into events, thinking like "I'm just gonna sit back and just let this play out", you know, like it's just not my personality. But I really felt like, "This is what I have to do, because this is what everybody else is doing." And it was miserable. And I think so many photographers, especially when you're new, get caught up in that, you know, looking around and what's popular right now and "What should I be doing? And what should I be doing?", instead of trying to figure out, like, what is it that you do? Because if you can figure out what you do that's unique and what you're really good at, your business is going to take off, because you're going to be the only person in the world ever who can do that. So figure that out and do that, you know.

 
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Andrew Hellmich: I want to hear about your mentoring, but my last question for you is, have you ever had an embarrassing moment or a big mistake that you're happy to share.

Sandra Coan: Oh, God, again, my entire first weddings, so funny!

Andrew Hellmich: Are these weddings online somewhere?

Sandra Coan: Oh yes, they are probably. I make so many mistakes. I made so many mistakes to this day, it's embarrassing. I mean, honestly, just last year, I was teaching a workshop in San Francisco, and Richard Photo Lab was good enough to send their marketing director up, and she spent the weekend with me teaching the workshop. And, you know, it's kind of high pressure. I kind of wanted to, you know, impress everybody. I gave my presentation to a room full of people, including the marketing director for Richard Photo Lab, with everything misspelled, like I had somehow loved the wrong thing. So like, instead of it saying like, title page, it said 'tittle', like, that was awesome. That still makes me cringe. I do like that.

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome. So tell me about these workshops and coaching. You do all sorts of stuff like this still?

Sandra Coan: I do. I teach workshops in person and online.

Andrew Hellmich: Online as in, so you can just sign up and do a course with you, or?

Sandra Coan: Yeah, so I do one right now. The only one I have up currently is on shooting strobes with film. It's a very Beginner's Guide to doing this, but honestly, for a lot of film photographers, it kind of blows their minds, you know, like the whole concept of flash and strobe, and I'm actually super passionate about it, because film loves light. And if you're going to be a film photographer and you're going to live in any other place in the world, other than like California or Hawaii or something like that, you need to be able to create light, or you're not gonna be able to shoot film. So I have a little online workshop through Little Bellows that teaches that. Then I read the blog Little Bellows, and we're a great resource. We do a lot of talking about business. I have a little team that we write articles. A lot of business talk, a lot of film talk, kind of a mix of that. And we teach workshops through there. So I'm teaching a live workshop in Portland, Oregon next month, with my friend Megan Boyer, who works with me at Little Bellows. She's also a film photographer. And we're teaching a workshop on film, shooting film using indoor light, strobes and outdoor light, kind of everything, and then also the business component of it. Because if you are going to shoot film, like we talked about earlier, you've got to be really smart about your business, otherwise, you're going to go broke. So that's a really, that's the thing I'm really passionate about. And I want photographers to be making money. I mean, this can be a fantastic career. It really can. And, you know, I want people to be successful at it.

Andrew Hellmich: Is Little Bellows, is that the education part of what you do, is that where all that lives?

Sandra Coan: Yeah, kind of, it's like Sandra Coan Photography is my portrait brand, you know, for my clients. And then Little Bellows is more for a photographer's brand, where we kind of talk about that.

Andrew Hellmich: And was I right in the intro, and I said, that's going to go into print as well. What you're doing there?

Sandra Coan: That is the plan. Isn't that crazy? What are these things where, you know, it starts out as a conversation over a margarita, and you know what, six months later, you're like, "I guess we're doing this!", and I think it'll be exciting.

Andrew Hellmich: Is this going to be like, for Seattle or for the whole the States or the world? What's the plan?

Sandra Coan: The States, definitely. I'm not sure, I mean, who knows? And we're excited about it. But it's also, you know, kind of a lark, like, "Write a magazine", "Okay." I think it's great. I mean, Little Bellows has been going now for five years. We have tremendous content. We have great writers. We've made great connections, and we work with photographers, you know, around the world, who submit and who read us. And so I think that there's really great potential for something. And our whole deal with the magazine, all joking aside, is that, you know, we're photographers and we're film photographers, and what we preach all the time and to our clients, and you know, the idea of having something tangible, and how that the tangible is something that's really lost so often in photography these days, you know? So the whole idea of the magazine is to take all that content and everything we've learned from running this blog and make it something tangible and something beautiful, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: It's exciting.

Sandra Coan: It's really exciting. I'm really excited about it and a little bit terrified.

Andrew Hellmich: So have you had a launch date in mind when we might see these on the shelves?

Sandra Coan: Our goal is October.

Andrew Hellmich: And in stores or by mail order?

Sandra Coan: Probably by mail order through the blog, for now.

Andrew Hellmich: Very cool. Sandra, it has been an absolute pleasure. You've been an absolutely wonderful guest. And from the very start, the first time I contacted you, right till now, it's just been, it's been a real pleasure. So thank you so much.

Sandra Coan: Well, thank you so much. I'm so thrilled and so honored that you would ask me to talk to you and to your people. So thank you.

Andrew Hellmich: My pleasure.