045: Bryan Caporicci – Mirrorless Cameras for Professional Wedding and Portrait Photographers

045: Bryan Caporicci – Mirrorless Cameras for Professional Wedding and Portrait Photographers

Andrew Hellmich: Today is a special episode. This is my very first returning guest of the podcast, Brian Caporicci, who was so well-received the first time I interviewed him in Episode 28. Now, Brian, if you don't remember, is a photographer based in the Niagara region of Canada. He's an incredible photographer, he's an educator, he's a multi-award winner, and he's an author, a published author of photography books and business books as well. Now, above all that, he runs a successful studio, and he's renowned as the most expensive photographer in his area, and he's still pretty young as well, which is very cool. Today, we don't know where we're going to go with this, but we're going to be talking a little bit differently. We're still going to have a business focus, but we're going to be talking about this new style of camera, the mirrorless and the micro four thirds, which Brian absolutely loves. And we're going to bring him on now and get his thoughts and views and how he thinks they're going to affect the business for the future for wedding and portrait photographers. Brian, welcome back to the podcast, mate.

Bryan Caporicci: Cool. Thank you for having me back. It's a pleasure to be the first return guest. I like that. It's kind of cool.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, it's an absolute pleasure. And yeah, to have anyone back for the first time, I'm glad to see you, mate, because you're so well-received last time and you shared an absolute ton. So what's, what's the go with these new cameras?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, so okay, this is the thing about it. This is what I'm loving. So for the longest time, I've been a professional photographer now for nine years, and you know, when I first got into photography, it's, obviously, it's the Nikon - Canon sort of debate. You're not really sure which direction you want to go. I actually started out shooting Canon, believe it or not. I'm shooting Nikon now, so I am, I guess you could call me by, by lover, by camera, by manufacturer, or whatever. But so I started with Canon, and you know, it's great. I had lens, I had the flash, everything. I think you'll probably agree with me, Andrew, but like, when you get into photography, it sort of goes in these, these interesting ways, doesn't it? Where it's like, when you first get into it, you're like, you love the photography, right? You're obsessive with lighting and with photography and composition, and just everything you can, you can consume about photography, you're all over, right? And I was the same way. I totally was, like, I had this huge passion for photography, which obviously is important because we're getting into the business of photography, as we've talked about before, and even, you know, you've talked with your other guests about is that we all get into photography because we love photography, and then we forget that we're actually running a business of photography. And so we kind of have to back-up and realize how much more there is involved with running a business. And so we have to get into the marketing and the finances and the networking and all these other kinds of business things, sales, the pricing, that go along with it. I know for me, I found a huge passion in the business side of running a photography business, I love sales. I love, you know, pricing, as nerdy as it sounds, I just totally love it. I mean, I wrote a book on it, so I just, I really do love the mechanics of, the nitty gritty in running a business. And for the last, I can't know how long, last four or five, six years, I've put a lot of effort in terms of my education, in terms of my focus, in terms of what I teach to others, into that business stuff, and to this, you know, the pricing and the sales and the marketing and the networking and the branding, and I've, I've put a lot of energy into that side of my knowledge base, my sort of expertise. Now that only happened because I learned photography very quickly, I quickly became an expert at photography, or, you know, a self-labeled expert, I guess, in photography, but, but, you know, I mean, I was getting all kinds of awards. I was getting all kinds of recognition and I was very, very happy where I was photography wise. And it's not that I stopped learning photography, but it's almost just that photography became second nature to me, that the next challenge for me was to master business. And so for so long, I've focused on business, and everything I've done, interviews I've done on podcasts, the seminars that I teach, all these things have been about business, and I recently kind of rediscovered a different kind of camera, and that's sort of what you were alluding to there in the intro, the mirrorless system, specifically the Fuji camera system, and the experience of getting into shooting with this camera and with this system, and the way that it works, and all the different nuances that go along with it, it has completely brought me back to day one in terms of photography passion, and it's been really energizing for me as a photographer, because, of course, I mean, I still love the business, and it's still a huge focus of mine, but I feel like learning this new system and being more intentional with my photography, because the cameras are a lot slower, has really been energizing for me. It's made me, it's given me this whole new fire about photography, which has really, really been amazing.

Andrew Hellmich: I know the feelings that you've gone through, and I've been through a similar process, but you're actually using these cameras for your paid work already, aren't you?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, for sure. So, so I shoot, like I said, with Nikon, I have a Nikon D3S. I've got all the lenses, the 70 to 200, the 85 primes, the 50 primes, 35 primes. I've got, I've got, you know, top of the line Nikon equipment, all the SB-900 and all that kind of jazz. And I love my photography out of those cameras, it's a great system. What I love about, what I've sort of learned to use Fuji for is being a little bit more intentional with your photography. So a quick back story with these mirrorless systems, basically, they're significantly smaller cameras. Fuji is definitely not the only player in the market. Fuji has kind of started to go the direction, or at least when they came out with their X100, they went that sort of retro look with their cameras. So certainly they brought back this certain sense of nostalgia for photographers. But there's other players in the market. Sony is a big player in the market. They've got the A7, the A7R I think it's called, it's the first full frame mirrorless camera, which is incredible. Sorry, before the Leica users jump on me like it is full frame as well, but I believe it's the first full frame mirrorless system. So that's pretty interesting. Olympus is a big player in the market. They've got the OM-D E-M1, E-M5. Fuji, I know that Nikon, Canon sort of try to compete in that area, but I don't think they're quite there, but in terms of shooting, so the Fuji I specifically shoot with the Fuji XC2, the camera is it has this analog feel to it. It's almost, it's what the Df was trying to be, the Nikon Df. And I mean, we could, we could get into a whole discussion about the Nikon Df, but maybe we'll keep the focus on the mirrorless system, but it's, it's got this beautiful, retro, analog, physical feedback feel to it that first of all, just as a photographer, it feels great in your hands. It's significantly smaller. So in terms of carrying a camera around for a day, or for personal work, or for even for client work, it's a lot smaller. You're not going to be breaking your back bearing these giant cameras, these giant full frame cameras, giant lenses. It's smaller, like it's, it's the size of a point and shoot camera. But the thing that's incredible out of this is the sensor on it is a really, really amazing sensor. It's a 16 megapixel sensor, and it's an APS-C sized sensors. So it's, it's basically more or less the same sensor that goes in, you know, the Nikon D7000 for example. It's, it's a good size sensor. It's not like you're, you're losing image quality. I mean, you're always going to have the purest that argue full frame versus a crop frame, because the APS-C sensor is a 1.5 crop, certainly, but for all intents and purposes, in terms of usability, in terms of image quality, in terms of print size, I can tell you from firsthand real life experience, I've not seen a downside to these cameras and the image quality out of the sensors.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, look, I've got to agree there. Like, I mean, we talked a little bit offline before we hit the record button, and I have used my X100s for a wedding, but it was for about 10 or 12 shots of the groom, and the groom's getting ready. Now, I definitely found some struggles with using it. So I'm interested to hear your views on how you tackle this stuff. As far as the actual camera, and you talked about how small it is. I mean, it's not as small as, like a little, you know, XS, it's certainly larger than that. So it looks like a real camera, that's for sure. But what is, what's the feeling, or, what have you sensed when you've turned up to a wedding and pulled the X100 out, and, you know, from guest, particularly with someone with a, you know, a 7200 lens, and you've got this little X100, what do they say to you?

Bryan Caporicci: It's one of those, it's one of those things. They look at you, they look at their lens, they look back at you. They're like, "Oh, what are you packing?" It's, you know, that's, that I actually love that, like the reaction that I've gotten from guests and from brides and grooms at weddings, shooting with the X-E2. Now I'm actually, I'm just gonna quickly back up. I still do shoot with my Nikon at weddings. I'm about 65% Nikon, and the rest I shoot with my Fuji. And I can definitely get into sort of how I use my Fuji and why I use it at weddings, but basically, in terms of reaction from guests, I like it because it makes me blend in with the rest of the guests. It doesn't make me seem like the professional photographer there at the wedding. I have a great example of this. I was photographing a wedding. It was maybe three or four weeks ago. It was a bit of a smaller wedding, and I was at the church before the bride and groom got there, and I'm sort of in there, just sort of getting candid to the guests and everything. And there's this little boy and this little girl, I think it was the nephew and the niece of the bride, and they're in the front aisle. And so it was a smaller wedding, and there wasn't a lot of people. There wasn't a lot of activity happening. It was kind of a little bit quieter. So I'm up at the front, and I want to get to some cute candids, because we're kind of playing in the aisle and just kind of doing their thing there. And you know, if I had this big camera, this massive lens, you know, my lens bag hanging off my shoulder, like, it's very obvious that this is the professional photographer. For if I point this like telescope at these guys, they're going to be aware that I'm taking a picture of them. They're gonna change their behavior, they're gonna change their composition. And so I'm not really, truly going to get a natural candid shot of these two little kids playing in the aisle, but instead, I had my Fuji X-E2 beside me, and I just pulled it out. I actually left it on live view mode, so I didn't even have to bring the camera to my face to look through the viewfinder. I just, I shot them by looking back at the camera, and they didn't think anything of it. They just thought I was a guest. They thought maybe I was an uncle, whatever I was. They just kind of kept doing the thing, because I'm just this guy in the front of the room with this tiny little camera pointing it at them. And I just love how it changes the way people will be in front of you. I think any professional photographer can certainly attest to the fact that when you go in front of a couple, or you go in front of a family, whoever it is you're photographing, as soon as you pull out these big cameras and these big lenses, it certainly is intimidating. There's no doubt about that. But we've traditionally had to use them because we needed the quality out of them. And I think the mirrorless world is really catching up in terms of quality, and now there's almost not really a difference that you can tell between the quality. And so if I can have a smaller form factor, which A is easier to carry around, but B makes me less obvious and stand out a lot less that makes for a lot of a different approach to photographing.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, sure. Look I agree, with the quality side of things. It's, you know, I mean, everyone knows that I shoot JPEG, and the quality of JPEGs coming out of these little cameras just blows me away. I mean, they are the nicest files.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, seriously, I have, I have never seen a JPEG out of camera as nice as I've seen the ones from the Fuji. Like I when I shoot with my Nikon, I shoot RAW and JPEG, because most of the times, I just deliver the JPEGs right out of the camera. Because I'm a fairly particular shooter. When I photograph, I'm very technical. I'm very aware of composition and of white balance and these kinds of things. So I don't normally need to do too much to my photos. And so I've worked with JPEGs out of my Nikon D3S. I've worked with JPEGs out of an Nikon D3. I've worked with a JPEG out of an Nikon D700, which is my previous camera, and I've never seen JPEG so beautiful, so crisp, so sharp that I have out of my Fuji. I mean, I've certainly tinkered with the settings, and I've done, like because I have this sort of technical, analytical background, I have done some fairly serious kind of AB testing in terms of settings and film simulations and all that kind of stuff. But I've never seen JPEGs as nice as I've seen them out of the Fuji. I've actually gone into Lightroom and tried to create presets that duplicate the JPEG so that in case I need to fix an exposure or anything I can, but still get that JPEG look. And I've never, I can't create that JPEG look out of the camera. The processor in these Fujis is just incredible.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, I agree. So, I don't want to make this sound like a massive ad for Fuji cameras and try and be, try and convert the listener to go to this style. And we've talked about some positives. So the definite positives are the size and the fact that you can blend in, and that the quality of the file. So no one's disputing any of that. What are some of the negatives that go along with these cameras that you found since shooting professionally with them?

Bryan Caporicci: I'm going to back up and give you one more positive, because I think that, I think that this can transcend any of the manufacturers. And I think that it's actually a really, really important note, these cameras have an electronic viewfinder in them. All the mirrorless or most of mirrorless cameras have them. I know the X100S has an optical viewfinder that you can switch to an electronic viewfinder. Now, the thing that I love about the electronic viewfinder, it's kind of gotten a little bit of a bad reputation, but it's been improved in the X-E2. Basically, when we're looking through our DSLRs, we're looking through mirrors and through the lens. So we're seeing what our lens sees, but we're not seeing the picture that's being taken. We're just seeing through the lens. And then when we take a picture, we have to look at the JPEG or the wrong back of the screen to see if it's exposed or what the white balance looks like. It's what we're seeing through the viewfinder is just what you see, is kind of what you get. With the Fuji and with any of the mirrorless systems, they have an electronic viewfinder, which basically it's a tiny little screen in your viewfinder, as opposed to looking through the glass. So when you're looking in the viewfinder of a mirrorless camera, you're actually seeing a picture before it's taken. And that's really, really incredible in terms of photographing with intent, in terms of sort of having a purpose, and really doing things creatively because you want to do it. So if you change the exposure, you can see that live as you're shooting. If you change the white balance, you can see that live as you're shooting. What I do is I use my Fuji camera as a pure black and white camera, and so when I'm looking through the electronic viewfinder, I'm seeing in black and white, I'm seeing the tonality, and it makes me focus more on the picture and the composition and the light and the mood, because I can actually see the picture I'm taking as I'm taking it. So I think that's a really big plot that the mirrorless cameras offer that we don't have with DSLRs.

Andrew Hellmich: I want to come back to what you just said there about shooting black and white, because that's really interesting, because I was wondering about workflow and using the two different cameras with the two different looking files. So let's come back to that in a minute. But talking about the viewfinders, I found with the Fuji X100S, which is the only mirrorless that I own, when I'm shooting with the electronic viewfinder, I feel as I'm looking through, like looking at a little TV screen, and it doesn't feel natural. I tend to shoot with the optical viewfinder. So are you telling me that the other cameras that you're using, you have the same sort of feeling, and you get used to that, or it's better on the X-E2?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, no. So the X-E2, that was one of the biggest improvements, with the X-E2 versus the X-E1 is that the electronic viewfinder is it's got a faster refresh rate, faster frame rate, all these fun technical things, but basically it makes it, to most eyes you really can't tell the difference between the electronic viewfinder and the X-E2 versus an optical viewfinder. So it's definitely been improved. One of the places where it was lacking significantly before is in low light. You would have a bit of a drag when you moved the camera, and you'd be able to see that through the electronic viewfinder. And that was something that Fuji really focused on improving in the X-E2. And so it has been improved there.

Andrew Hellmich: And talking about low light situation, again, I know with my X100S, the high ISO capabilities are just incredible. I mean, I can shoot that thing at, you know, certainly 3200 and even up to 6400 without, without a problem.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's great. The noise handling on it is great. I think that I almost feel like in cameras today in general, like, I mean, whether we're talking mirrorless, DSLR, or whatever, I almost feel like the technology has gotten to this amazing place where we can basically, we're like ninjas, we can see in the dark now, and it's almost like, that's almost gotten to the point where it's not even a deciding factor. I mean, my D3S is amazing. I shoot at 6400 ISO all the time. Same thing with my Fuji. I can shoot 6400 no problem. And I'm very happy with the photos out of it.

Andrew Hellmich: All right. Now, that's enough of the sales talk. What are the negatives?

Bryan Caporicci: Okay, so, okay, this reason and am I gonna say, yeah, this reason, and almost this reason alone is the reason why I haven't switched 100% over to the mirrorless system, and it's the auto focus.

Andrew Hellmich: So that's a pretty big one.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, focus is kind of important, you know? I mean, unless, unless you want to just shoot out of focus shots, turn a black and white and call it creative, right? I mean, that's another option as well, but..

Andrew Hellmich: You left out add grain.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, add grain, add grain, yes. But okay, so the auto focus in traditionally the mirrorless cameras, I'm gonna go back sort of a generation to the previous generation the mirrorless cameras, they all had what's called contrast detection auto focus, which is basically the same technology we have when we're in live view on a DSLR. So when it looks at a scene, it looks for contrast in order to focus on, so basically it searches for the focus, and then at that point where it's the highest contrast that is sort of assumed that that's the thing that's in focus, because that sort of is what kind of defines focus. But it's not very fast. So traditionally, in the mirrorless systems, auto focus has been pretty slow at best, because you're relying on kind of a not the greatest auto focus system. So definitely for things like sports photography, for any kind of action photography, a mirrorless system traditionally was not your best bet, because you're not going to have that kind of quick, snappy auto focus, and you're also not going to have the quick follow focus that you can have in a DSLR. So that's definitely been traditionally a negative. Now, in sort of the newer wave of mirrorless cameras that are coming out, the Fuji X-E2, the Olympus ones, the Sony Alpha 7, not the 7R, they all have what's called the hybrid auto focus system. So part of the auto focus system is face detection auto focus, which is the exact same auto focus system that we have in DSLRs. So instead of using the contrast, it uses a completely different technology to get auto focus. So it's been significantly improved. I still would argue that it's not as good as what we get in a lot of the higher-end DSLRs, like my D3S or D4, you're not going to have as quick of auto focus, but it's definitely not where you feel like you're lacking with these new hybrid systems.

Andrew Hellmich: Let's say a couple, say wedding scenario or portrait, pre-wedding shoot. The couple are walking towards you. Can you hold focus and shoot a series of shots with these new cameras?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, you can. Now, the hybrid auto focus points are only at least I know in the Fuji for sure, I'm pretty sure it's the same with the other ones. It's the center nine auto focus points. So if you want to use the faster auto focus, you have to use those center nine. But, I mean, and you can definitely do follow-up focus in terms of having somebody walk towards you or walk away or walk around, it's and it's still not going to be as quick as what we have in our Nikon and all that, because our DSLRs have a completely separate sensor that's indicated just to auto focus. So I mean, you can't beat that, because you've got the mirrors that allow for that, whereas in a mirrorless system, you don't have the light that's bouncing around in order to have a separate sensor to do that, because you just have the sensor right there in front of you. So I mean, it's not going to be as good as you have in the DSLRs, but it's definitely leaps and bounds better than just contrast detection. And for most scenarios, for most professional photographers, I would say it's definitely enough for what they would use the bulk of their work for.

Andrew Hellmich: So any other negatives that you think there are, apart from the focusing, which is getting better?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah. I mean the whole, I mean the size of it, right? I mean a lot of photographers like having, like, so how I talked about the size of it being a pro, and the fact that it's not, I'm not killing my back, I can kind of be a little bit more discreet. A lot of photographers like the bulkiness of a DSLR in order to sort of stand out as the professional. And with a camera like this, you're certainly not standing out as the professional photographer. Not to say you're not going to get the best shots there. It's just if aesthetics mean a lot to you in terms of appearance on a wedding day, then the size of it could certainly be a con for some photographers.

Andrew Hellmich: Have you ever had a bride and groom think, you sort of sense that they're thinking, "What the hell is this guy shooting with? Is that his phone?"

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, no, it's funny, because it's one of those things where for every time I've had it over to shoot, I've either had the couple or the family comment on it, or I could sort of sense that they were looking at it in a weird way. And so I would just bring it up, because it's like, "Okay, hang on a second. There's an elephant here. Let's just kind of address this for a second. Let me explain this." And basically the way that I explain it to my clients is I say, "Listen, this is my black and white camera. This is what I shoot when I want to shoot just black and white. Now, of course, I can go back to color if I need to go back to color, but I tell them that it's making me be more intentional with how I take your pictures. So I'm thinking in terms of color or black and white with you, as opposed to just spraying and praying and converting things afterwards."

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, that's a good explanation. So let's talk a little bit about your workflow then, because, you know, one minute we're saying, how good these color files are, they just are incredible, and then you've turned around and said, now you're only using it for black and white. So why that approach?

Bryan Caporicci: I've never seen a black and white toned image is nice, as I've seen out of these Fujis, directly out of the camera. There's all kinds of filters, of plugins, of actions that we can use to do film simulation, that we can use to sort of add grain or add, you know, a certain contrast, look for black and white. So there's whole software suite just dedicated to black and white processing for RAW files. But the JPEGs out of these Fujis, and I know I keep coming back to the Fuji, that's just what I'm familiar with, but the JPEGs, the black and white toning out of them, is so crisp and contrasty and rich in tonality. And that's really the only way that I can explain it. It's got this beautiful warmth and richness and mood to it that I've never seen in any other camera black and white. And so when I shoot with my Fuji, that I've decided where I love that black and white out of the Fuji so much that I'm going to use it as my dedicated black and white camera. It justifies me using this camera, because otherwise I could just, you know, I can get a similar lens for an Nikon, I can get a similar look for my Nikon, then sort of, you know, what's the benefit? So for me, I use it as a creative tool, in the sense that when I'm shooting, I'm deciding, am I shooting black and white, or am I shooting color? If I shoot color, I'm with my Nikon. If I want to shoot black and white, I'm with my Fuji. And so it's made me a lot more intentional with my photography. I've chosen to shoot with this Fuji because I want to get a certain look, because I want to get a certain tonality, because I want black and white. And I love that process. It kind of, it's just like back when you know you shot film, you would shoot with roll black and white film or a roll of color film, and you had to decide while you're shooting. And I just love that process. It's made me think so much more deeper about my photography, instead of just shooting and making the decisions later.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice, if you're shooting JPEG and RAW, is that what you're doing with the foods, or you're just shooting RAW?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, no, I shot JPEG and RAW because I do love the JPEGs out of it. But if I need to go back and, you know, fix the exposure or do anything intense with the RAW processing, I want to have, the RAW is there.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and I'm guessing that if you're shooting black and white, with black and white settings on these cameras, that the JPEG can only be black and white. Have to go back to the RAW file.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, exactly. Okay, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, that's great. So with the, I mean, I just, can you see yourself going solely with this, so having two Fujis system, so there's one for black and white, one for color?

Bryan Caporicci: Absolutely I can. Can I see it happening with the current lineup of cameras? No, I don't think so, and that's only because of the auto focus system. In low light, it still isn't amazing. It still hunts for focus in low light. And being a wedding photographer, being that I photograph wedding receptions and ceremonies in low light rooms, I need the reliability of having a really good auto focus system, so my Nikon is still king there. The other reason, and I just, I forgot to mention this earlier, but the flash system still isn't quite there, for me I use SB-900, like I do a fairly sort of intense setup for wedding reception lighting, I set up five or six flashes around the room to put a nice, even blanket in the room, and so I control that all from my flash on my camera using radio poppers and using an SB-900 on camera. With the Fuji system, I would have to convert to using something like a pocket wizard. So it's definitely doable, but it's still not there in terms of auto focus, so I don't see me switching right now full time to Fuji, but I definitely see this is the direction that professional photography is going. And I know it's kind of a bold claim, but there's all kinds of evidence that's out there, if you really start paying attention to the industry, to the manufacturers, to the reports that are coming out about these cameras and about Nikon and Canon and where they're going. It's not looking good for them, and it's looking pretty darn good for the mirrorless system. There was an article, I don't know, and if you want to link it up in the show notes, but in the New York Times, and it was basically talking about how DSLRs are on a huge, like a decline. They're not, they're not making as much money as they once were. In this whole article talked, actually, again, funny enough not to plug Fuji, but they talked about Fuji and how Fuji is really making these, these great innovations in the photography industry. I even, I remember reading somewhere, and I don't remember exactly where it was, but it was, it was a fairly good size report, and a fairly big player in the industry, and they were saying that DSLRs are practically going to be dead in the next five to 10 years. And that's pretty astounding.

Andrew Hellmich: That's a big call.

Bryan Caporicci: That's a huge call. But you know what like when you really look at it like Fuji has only been out with this line, the X series for, I think, two years in 2010. Sorry, three years. In 2010 they announced the X100. In that short period of time, the innovation that they've done, and the innovation that's happened in the mirrorless market has been incredible, and yet you go into the DSLR market, and I, you know, I'm not an analyst, I'm not going to harp on what Canon and Nikon have been doing, but what kind of serious improvements have they been making in their cameras or in their technology, year to year to year to year? Like, I feel like my D700 that I bought six or seven years ago isn't that far off for my D3S. I mean, aside from a little bit of better noise handling, what is the real difference between these cameras? There's not a lot of innovation happening there. And I think that's evident when you see Nikon release in something like the Df, it's like, what are they trying to do there? I almost feel like, in a way, they're seeing what manufacturers like Fuji and Olympus are doing. And they're saying, "Hey, we want to look retro too, but we're going to put the same stuff in it that all of our other cameras have." So they've just kind of gone for the aesthetic side, but not really the technology innovation side. I think that we're in for some interesting times in the next five to 10 years.

Andrew Hellmich: Let me talk about that, those times that are coming up, because these cameras are definitely cheaper than, say, going with a D4 or what is, a 5D Mark III or something. So the barrier to entry to becoming a professional photographer is going to be dropping again. What do you think that's going to do? What effect do you think that might have on the industry and the amount of new photographers coming in again.

Bryan Caporicci: I actually think it's going to help, Andrew. Because I think that, like the mirrorless cameras, surprisingly, because of, A the reform factor, because of B their sort of ease of quality, in terms of, you know, the quality you get out of it right away, and their affordability, I think it's actually harder to get a really well-composed, well-shot, professional looking portrait or photograph out of it, because it seems so, like you throw it around, kind of thing. So, so I actually think in the right hands, these mirrorless cameras can do great things. I think in a consumer's hands, it'll be just a great point and shoot.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, see, I mean, the professional is still going to stand out, just like they do.

Bryan Caporicci: Now, absolutely, you know, that's, sorry about that. I got a call coming through. Maybe I should take the phone call there and do a sales session live on the phone.

Andrew Hellmich: Be awesome.

Bryan Caporicci: Be interesting. But you know that that's the thing is, because of what these cameras are, what you can do with these cameras, it's going to open up this whole new, it's going to make photographers focus on photography more, because you really have to be focusing on what you're shooting now, with the image quality being almost a given in some circumstances, you have to focus back now on composition, on lighting, on mood, on posing, on all these other things, that actually is what photography is about, right? So, so I think, if anything, it's actually going to do good things to our industry.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you don't think there's going to be another flood of new photographers coming through, because that barrier to entry has dropped?

Bryan Caporicci: I don't, I don't see that being a problem. I think that photographers have gotten scared with every innovation point that we've had, when it went, you know, like back in the day, from medium format down to film, from film to digital, from, you know, like at every point in this transition as a profession, photographers have gotten scared about, "Oh, well, it's easier now. So what's going to happen to professional photographers?" But you know, it's always been about the photographer and not the camera, and we know that as professional photographers. I don't think anything changes whether we're talking about a mirrorless camera or a DSLR, it's still very much about the photographer and the eye of the photographer.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, well, let me, let me rephrase this a little bit then, and aim it more towards the established pro-photographer. When I came through the ranks and I went from film to digital, I mean, I was lucky. I was sort of, you know, I was early on in my career, and I was happy to jump at that change, and I adopted to it very quickly. And the guys that were trying to hang-on to film, they struggled and struggled and fought it and fought it, and then eventually went out the back door. Do you think established photographers today have to get hold of this new technology and start embracing it now? Or you don't think it's as big a change as what we saw in the past?

Bryan Caporicci: I don't think it's going to be as big of a game changer. I don't think you're going to have clients are going to say, "Oh, are you shooting mirrorless? Or are you shooting DSLR", like, kind of in the same way that it was "Are you shooting digital or film?" The output is still the same. You're still having a digital file at the end of the day. I think it's something that as photographers, we're in the technology industry, and I think it's important for us to keep an eye on what's happening with technological innovation, and I think that this is a really big part of what's going to happen in the future. So it's definitely a good idea for us as professional photographers to kind of keep ourselves educated and up to date with what's happening here. Do I think we all need to go and switch into the mirrorless system right now? Absolutely not. Do I think it's going to be imperative to switch in the next five years? Absolutely not. But do I think that it's going to become more and more attractive for us to switch into that market in the next five to 10 years? I definitely think so. And so for the reasons that we've talked about, I definitely see there being just cause for a lot of photographers to start considering that movement, or at least considering becoming familiar with that technology now, so that they're ready for it once it, you know, becomes more serious in the future.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, I mean, speaking personally, I'm excited about it because having owned the Fuji X100S myself, man, I'm a convert. I love that thing. I'm shooting more and enjoying my shooting more than ever before. And I've said it before on the podcast, it's, um, it just rejuvenated my outlook on photography.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, for sure. That's the exact same way I felt. I feel this, this passion. I've even written a few blog posts about it, just because I've I feel like I've rediscovered photography again with this camera. It's, it's a completely new learning process. It's a completely new way of looking at photography, and I've loved it almost by simplifying what we're doing as photographers, by taking away all the fancy options and just having, you know, ISO, shutter speed and aperture to play with. It's like, it's like this whole new world that we're just for simplifying photography, and we're focusing on photography again. And that's what I've loved about switching over to mirrorless. The other thing that's been incredible, and this is something else to really strongly consider a big push point for professionals, before whenever I would, you know, be out on vacation or go to the beach or whatever, go somewhere with my family, I would have my Nikon D3S with a little 50 millimeter lens on it. I would try to compress my kit as much as possible, because I don't like feeling like I'm a professional photographer when I'm enjoying personal time. I don't like, not that photography to me is only work, but I don't like standing out as a photographer when I'm out with my family, when I'm out enjoying personal time. And frankly, I also don't want to carry around these giant cameras and lenses when I'm out, like at the beach or trying to travel and tour or something. And so I've always had this little bit of displeasure with having to have a DSLR with me on these personal endeavors. Having a Fuji has been a life changer for me. We went to Florida back a couple weeks ago, and all I brought with me was my Fuji and a 35 millimeter lens on it. It's this tiny, little compact system, a little bit bigger than the X100S. And actually, the X100S is a great option for traveling, for photographers. And I loved how, how easy it was to carry around, how small it was. It fits in a tiny little, you know, little bag I have beside me. It's super quick, super easy to use. I can hand it to anybody, put in auto mode, and they can take a great picture with it. But yet, I still get amazing pictures out of it. So it's like the best of both worlds. From a personal standpoint, I get great quality that I'm used to, but I have a size that's much more manageable on a personal level.

Andrew Hellmich: Man, I'm with you 100% there, so I won't even go any deeper. Let's bring this a little bit back to business. Because I'm, like I said, I'm 100% behind everything you've just said. And there's no use to reiterate everything that you said there. How do you bring it into your business? Talk about your workflow. You get back from the wedding or the portrait shoot or the -prewedding session, and you've got your two cards there, one from your D3S, from your Fuji.

Bryan Caporicci: They work seamlessly together. I import them all into the same folder. I look at them all in in Photo Mechanic, which is what I used to cull. I still sort..

Bryan Caporicci: When you bring them into Photo Mechanic, then how do you make sure that they're in the right order?

Bryan Caporicci: I'd always just sort by capture time. I have all my cameras synced up for capture time, so I just, I still view by capture time. So if I switch over to the Fuji for a period of time, then the Fuji files will be in between the Nikon files. And I go through everything as if it was just all the same camera, all the same shoot. I select them all on Photo Mechanic, just the same. If I need to do any editing, I'll bring them into Lightroom, which will then automatically pull the RAWs into Lightroom. Otherwise, the JPEGs are there. I'm good to go with them, and off we go to the races. That's it. It's, it's, I know, I mean, maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but for me, I don't, I don't treat it like it's anything different. I don't treat it like, "Oh, I have to process these differently, or I have to look at them separately, or I have to look at just the Nikon and then just the Fujis." I just view them as part of the wedding, as part of the family session, as part of the portrait session, and I just kind of go forward with it. I've, I don't treat them any differently. One of the things that I should note is, for my Nikon camera in Lightroom, I have, I think a lot of photographers do this, I have a default sort of setting that's applied to the Nikon upon import, just a very basic curves adjustment, a camera calibration, a clarity adjustment, like these kinds of things, just very basic. Just to give me a good starting point of my Nikon. Now I have the same thing for my Fuji, but my default setting for my Fuji is actually a black and white setting that I created, and that's what I was saying earlier. I tried to get as close to the end camera black and white as possible. I even had a custom camera profile created, but so that way all my Fujis automatically, upon importing to the Lightroom, are turned black and white, the same as what it was when I shot them.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So have you, have you ever come across the issue when you've handed the files over to a client and they've said to you, "Brian, we love this black and white shot, but we really want to have it in color." Has that happened before?

Bryan Caporicci: No. You know what? I've never had that happen. It's, it's, one of the things that I explained to clients is, you know, this is a creative decision for me, whether I was shooting with Fuji or not. If I'm going to deliver something in black and white, I'm doing it for a purpose. I don't just arbitrarily turn things black and white because I feel like I don't want, I just want to have a black and white. I kind of, I do it because the other colors were distracting, it was mixed lighting, or because I felt the mood looked better in black and white. And so I use that as a creative decision. And so my clients kind of just accept that, that that's the shot that he delivered in black and white. I don't really give them the option to turn it back to color. Certainly, I think if I had the case where a client was saying, "Hey, I love this shot, but can we have it in black, in color?" I mean, I'm not going to say no to them, but I think that I've established a sort of, I've been established as the expert in that field. I'm the photographer, I'm the professional. They came to me because of what I do, and so they just kind of take what I give them as this is Brian's creative control. This is Brian's creative direction, and we're happy with the shots because of that. It was funny because I photographed a wedding. It was the wedding of a photographer a few weeks ago, and it was interesting because he thought the whole Fuji thing was really, really cool, and he was kind of really amped about it. When I when I gave him his proofs, he was actually saying, "Okay, so which ones were the Fuji, Brian? Which ones were the Nikon?" Because I had converted some of the Nikon stick to black and white. He's like, "So all the black and white ones Fuji?" I said, "Oh, well, some of them are, but some of the Nikon were converted black and white too." And he said, I, you know, "I can't really tell the difference between them, if you're, if I didn't know, I would just think it's all just the same." So that's a great testament to the quality that we're getting out of these cameras.

Andrew Hellmich: Definitely, definitely, and just while we're talking about quality, that the lenses that you're using you've got, you've still got interchangeable lenses with your system?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah. So the X-E2 is an interchangeable lens system, and Fuji has some really nice lenses out there. The ones that I use, I only have two lenses. I have the 23 millimeter 1.4 lens, which on the crop body, is around 35 millimeters. And I have a 60 millimeter f2.4 and it's also a macro lens and so on the crop body, that's around 85 to 90 millimeters. And those are just the only two lenses that I have. They've got some great lens like they have a 35 1.4 that is great. I don't love the perspective of 50 millimeters, and so I don't use that lens for that reason. But they even have a zoom of 55 to 200 which, when you do the conversion, that's like 80 to 300 millimeters, which is a pretty impressive zoom. And the aperture, I think, is only 2.8 to four, which is pretty good for that kind of zoom. So they've got some really solid lenses in their lineup, and they're only getting better. They've got one in their roadmap right now. That's a 56 millimeter 1.2 lens, that's just going to be an incredible lens. People are just waiting for that thing to come out. So they're doing some real innovation. The thing I love about Fuji is they listen to their customers, and they're always doing firmware updates to give the features that customers are asking for. And I think that's a really, really good lesson that some of the other bigger manufacturers could probably take note from.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, I think we've covered sort of just about everything it sounds. It sounds like we should all be exploring it. So if you're, if you're talking to another photographer and someone wanted to get into this and give it a try, and maybe even incorporate into their workflow, what would you say suggest they buy for a start? I know you're gonna say the X-E2.

Bryan Caporicci: Buy Fuji! Buy Fuji! No, you know what, there are a lot of options out there. I would say the three big players right now in the mirrorless world are Fuji, and that would be the X-E2. I mean, the X-Pro1 is a nice camera for the Fuji, but now it's a generation old. It doesn't have the upgrades that the X-E2 has, so I would still suggest the X-E2. If you're going Olympus, you can look at the Olympus O-M and see, now I'm gonna forget the name if I'm not saying it quickly. It's Olympus OM-D, E-M1, or E-M5, which is, they're both mirrorless cameras, and they're both great cameras. And Sony has, and they just announced, I don't think it's come out yet, but it's the Sony A7 and the Sony A7R, those two are the are the full frame ones I was talking about earlier. So I mean, definitely it's, it's going to be, it's just like Canon versus Nikon, Mac versus PC. Even though we all know Mac is better, we all know Nikon is better, it's okay, we understand. But you know, it's going to be a personal preference, and it's going to be whatever, whatever feels most comfortable for you. I fell in love with Fuji. I fell in love with the with the aesthetics of it. I fell in love with the JPEGs out of it. And I love the philosophy of Fuji. And so I'm, I'm, you know, kind of Fuji for life. Certainly, there's other options out there that I've heard great things about. So I would definitely explore all the options and just see what makes sense for you.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, just before I ask you where everyone can find you, I'm gonna, I'll see if I can get those links from you. So certainly from the New York Times article, I can chase that down. Maybe we can get a couple of your black and white images that you would give to clients in the show notes, if that's okay?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: So people can have a look at those. And I'll also add links to your blog posts as well that we've talked about the system. Just before I ask you where people can find you, you said right at the very beginning of the interview that you changed from Canon to Nikon. Why did you do that?

Bryan Caporicci: This is okay. So it's a little bit of a long story. But long story short, I had, what camera was I shooting with? I forget, I forget what I had with Canon, but I upgraded to the, I believe it was the 1D Mark II was, was the sort of flagship model at that time, this is going back to 2007, so I was shooting with the Canon 1D Mark II, I just got it from Canon, and I was having auto focus problems like you wouldn't believe I was having. It was like 50, 60% of my shots were completely out of focus. And after doing some research into the camera when it was first announced, it was actually a known problem. It had some back focusing issues and some sort of consistency issues. And so I kept going back to Canon. I was a Canon Professional Service member, so I had some privileges there. And I kept going back there, and they kept trying to fix it for me. They kept trying to replace it. I kept having the problem. Eventually, they basically said, "Yes, okay, well, we know it's a problem. It's been documented among a number of users. You're just going to have to kind of get used to it and live with it." And that point, I kind of said, "You know what? I have a real big issue supporting a camera manufacturer that is acknowledging an issue and isn't going to fix it." So I actually returned it to where I bought the camera, at a local camera store here, and they gave me a credit back for the camera. So I was basically camera-less with a credit for five or $6,000, and around the same time, funny enough, I happened to drop my 70 to 200 in the water, and I completely broke it, and so I had to buy a new 70 to 200. So at that point, I said, "Okay, I have a credit for a flagship model camera. I need to buy a 70 to 200 whether I'm shooting Canon or Nikon." And so I started to explore the options. And I said, "If I'm going to switch, if I'm ever going to switch, now is the time to do it." And so I decided to jump ship, and I bought the bought the D700, and sold off all my Canon gear, switched over to Nikon, and I haven't looked back since.

Bryan Caporicci: I think, following your progress, that's when you really took a step up in your photography as well.

Bryan Caporicci: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it was amazing, because my shots were all on focus, and, you know, it was great. I joke, you know, I think honestly, truthfully, both manufacturers are great. I've heard so many good things about the 5D Mark III, all the Canon systems, they're both great. It really just is a personal preference. At this point. I'm so invested in Nikon that it doesn't make sense to switch. And I think most photographers feel the same way about whatever system they're using.

Andrew Hellmich: I agree and I would never have asked you the question if I was a Canon shooter anyway.

Bryan Caporicci: Excellent.

Andrew Hellmich: Like, where can people check out your work as far as seeing you know what you're shooting and what you're doing these days?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah. my website is www.bcapphoto.com and that's spelled B-C-A-P-P-H-O-T-O.com, that's my blog for clients. I do some blogging for photographers there as well. If you go on Amazon, if you're interested in getting my Book Pricing for Profit, you can just search Pricing for Profit on Amazon, and you can find that there. I'm sure you'll have in the show notes as well. But that's, that's sort of it. You google Brian Caporicci and I'm sort of all over the place. You can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, all the ordinary places there.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome, man. I will, I'll put links to everything like we did last time, and I urge listeners to what to go and check you out and check out what you're doing. There really nice stuff.

Bryan Caporicci: For sure, cool. Thanks so much.

Andrew Hellmich: Thanks, Brian. It’s been a real pleasure.

Bryan Caporicci: Okay, ciao!

Andrew Hellmich: It's Andrew here, just jumping in for a quick second. When I finished interviewing Brian for today's episode, we stayed on the line and chatted for a bit more and talked about a few other things, and then he went on to talk about this great idea that I really wanted to share. So it wasn't part of the main interview. I went back to Brian and asked if he's happy for me to share this with you. And he said, "Hey, look, I'm a 100% open book. I'm happy to share anything and everything that I'm doing. And yeah, go for it. Absolutely, I'm happy to share it." So look, I've got to say thanks again to Brian for sharing it. I hope you enjoy this extra, extra little bit of audio. Hopefully you can use it in your business, somehow, some way. I think it was a terrific, fantastic idea. Here it is.

Bryan Caporicci:
I've kind of taken this new approach to boudoir photography. I do a lot of boudoir photography as it is, but I've found this new style with the Fuji camera and shooting black and white. I'm creating these really moody, really like rich black and whites from a boudoir session. I've done two now that are shot all with the Fuji. I didn't even bring my Nikon. I didn't even shoot color at all. The entire thing was with the Fuji. And what a great experience. That was like, I would encourage you to try and kind of challenge yourself creatively. That way doesn't have to be boudoir, but it could be anything. And just don't bring your Nikon, just bring your Fuji and just see how it stretches you as a photographer.

Andrew Hellmich: And you mainly using your 35 or your 85 equivalent?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, no, I use the 60 almost exclusively. Yeah, it's a beautiful vocal length. I love the 85 on my D3S, so I'm very close to that with the 60 on the Fuji. The 23 I've used here and there for little things, but I'm mostly shooting with the 60 and the 23 is more for personal stuff. That's what I put on, just as like a walk around, vacation kind of camera with my daughter, that sort of thing. You know, one of the reasons I love the Fuji is I've just simplified things. And so I kind of think, it's kind of silly if I'm trying to simplify and then I bring around all these lenses with it, right? So I'm simplifying in the sense that it's one camera, one lens. It sits on my hip. Actually, I got the Spider Black Widow Holster, so it just, it loops into my belt, and then I put just this tiny little tab on the bottom of my Fuji, and it just slides right in there. So I have it by my side all day on the wedding day.

Andrew Hellmich: On your boudoir page, on your website. So those black and whites, are they with the Fuji there? Or are they more on your blog?

Bryan Caporicci: No. So the ones with the Fuji, if you go to my blog, the one I've blogged is Cassidy Boudoir, and I called it an all Fuji black and white boudoir session, it's all Fuji. And it was just like, what, what a cool experience. It made me completely rethink things like, it's not like a Nikon where it's like, your snap, snap, snap, snap, and you can just go quickly, which is my typical approach, not in a spray and pray method, but I'm typically fairly fast-paced when I shoot. But the Fuji really made me slow down. And it was like I was shooting way slower. I would take one picture and then be like, "Okay, we're good here. I got the shot I want, and let's move on, and we'll change", and it was a different feel for me, and it was, I'm not saying I liked it better. I liked it, I liked it less, but it was just different. And as a photographer, as a creative that was awesome.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice, gorgeous. Is this a hotel room? This girl? Or is this her house, or?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, no, no. This is, so I have an arrangement with one of the local boutique hotels where I have, sort of, it sounds cheesy, but I have a day rate with them, yeah, well, and it's included in my boudoir packages. So for boudoir sessions, we go there and we have a Deluxe Suite that we rent out.

Andrew Hellmich: What a great idea.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: What a great idea. I know you got an appointment, it's been wonderful. It's been so good chatting with you. I could talk to you all day. I really could. So thanks again, Brian.

Bryan Caporicci: Cool. Thanks so much.

 
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