214: Kate Buechner – On Her Way to A Million Dollar Family Portrait Photography Business

214: Kate Buechner – On Her Way to A Million Dollar Family Portrait Photography Business

 

Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest is the lovely Kate Buechner from Uber Photography in Sydney. She works alongside her husband Chris, also a photographer in their busy studio. Kate has appeared on PhotoBizX briefly during one of my AIPP award episodes, and I've been meaning to get her back on ever since. And it was a Facebook post and the following thread that kicked me into gear to chase her up for this interview, Kate posted in a private group, "I reached my goal of 300 portrait sessions for the year. We've had our best year in business after 15 years photographing only what we love to shoot." Kate added, "I normally shoot four to five sessions each Saturday and a couple during the week. And my school holidays are also super busy. It's all about having a good workflow." She also wrote, later in that thread, "I wanted to add, I offer up full service. So with those sessions, I sold 526 wall prints, which are eight by 12 and above. Only 25 clients chose to go for the digital files." I am rapt to have with me right now to learn more about all this. Kate, welcome.

Kate Buechner: Thanks, Andrew, it's lovely to be here.

Andrew Hellmich: Do they sound like big numbers to you when you hear them back?

Kate Buechner: You know, it's weird. It should sound like big numbers, but it just sounds like part of what I do. So, I have a very clear goal of what I'm working to, and those are my figures.

Andrew Hellmich: When you say, have a clear goal, what kind of goals?

Kate Buechner: So at the start of the year, I sit down and work what we want to earn income wise, where I want to be. And so I set goals in terms of the number of sessions that I need to book to reach those goals.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so with the number of sessions, and you already have an average that you'd like to make from each, or you know what that average is?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, look, I know what my average is last year, so I always keep an eye on that. And then obviously, every year I want that to increase slightly. I'm to increase it, so, you know, 10% each year. So it's just a steady growth. And this year, my goal is to kind of reach the maximum number of sessions that I ever want to shoot. So I'm aiming for 400 sessions this year, which I know when I work out the figures. That's kind of the max that I'm physically able to do as well. And then, you know, from there, it'll be just increasing my averages for each session.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so what's your average sitting at now?

Kate Buechner: So last year was at 1500.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, that's a fantastic business.

Kate Buechner: Yes, yes. So we live on the North Shore of Sydney. Obviously there's pluses and minuses to our market on where we live. So people look and go, okay, well, it's a very affluent area, which it is, but it's also a very expensive area to live. So to be here and live in this market, we also have to earn a good income. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to do that.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, right, okay I get that. And I know that when I think of the North Shore, I think, wow, lots of money. But also, know, there's a lot of photographers. You have a lot of competition in your area too, don't you?

Kate Buechner: I do. So, a number of years ago, I had to put together all the photographers for the IPP in my area, and there was 95 within a 15 kilometer radius of me. So I am in a sea of photographers, but yes standing out. But the other thing is, people often look and go. Okay, you're in an affluent area, that's got to be easy. But you can't buy a house in my area for under about $1.5 million so everyone has big mortgages. They all drive European cars. They all have their kids in private schools, and so you're competing against that. They're actually some of the most cash poor people in Sydney, because those things are their priority, and they're spending all the money on that. So you have to work smarter to get them to spend money on photos.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, I am so looking forward to diving into more of this. Can you give the listener and me a bit of a snapshot about the way you set up the business? Because I know it's you and Chris working together. Do you still have staff as well?

Kate Buechner: So we have one part time staff member that I've taken on this year. So she's doing two days a week doing all my post processing. So the part of the job that I like the least is spending hours in Photoshop. So I'm outsourcing or brought in a staff member to look after that for me this year.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so why bring in a staff member instead of outsourcing?

Kate Buechner: Look, I looked at both things, but we need someone, sort of behind the scenes, to be doing other bits and pieces. So she does admin for me as well putting all orders together. It was all that part that was just as important as the post processing, so it just made more sense for us to get a staff member to do it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, great. And what's Chris's role in the business?

Kate Buechner: Yes, so to give you a little bit of background, so Chris and I been photographers for 15 years. We started out photographing weddings. Primarily, we were doing about 50 weddings a year for sort of seven or eight years, and then I had a few health issues, so I had rheumatoid arthritis, and that was impacting on me shooting weddings, and I was pretty miserable doing it. And it was also impacting on our family life with our kids, that it was very difficult to juggle three children and shooting 50 weddings a year. So we made a decision that I would change my focus to portraits. So we'd always shot some portraits, because our brides came back and had babies, but I made a decision to primarily focus on portraits and to build that part of the business. So that was about five years ago. And, you know, the first year was 100 then we went to 200 sort of we've had this steady climb in the number of portrait sessions we're shooting. And then about three, four years ago, Chris decided as well that he'd had enough of shooting weddings. I think it gets to that point with a lot of people that you know, it's a big commitment to be out every weekend and be away from your family. So he made a decision to switch to shooting Glamour Photography or Boudoir Photography. So he now photographs about 100 boudoir sessions a year and does commercial work, so lots of head shots and other general commercial work. And he actually shot his last wedding a couple of weekends ago.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so it's exciting times.

Kate Buechner: Yes, very exciting times.

Andrew Hellmich: Is his business, is it separate to yours?

Kate Buechner: It's totally separate. So we have Sydney Glamour Photography, which is his boudoir glamour business, and we have Uber Photography. We run them both out of the same studio, but they are two totally different markets, and everything is done separately for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, you said you've got a staff member stay two days a week. What's her name or his name?

Kate Buechner: Anna, and she just works for me. So she's not having anything at all to do with Chris's boudoir business. He, at this stage, is running that totally by himself.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. Is there competition between you for turnover?

Kate Buechner: No, look here, people talk about being a husband and wife team and running a business together. And the thing that Chris and I realized very early on is that we have different strengths and weaknesses. So I always say he's the creative, he's the out there, you know, comes up with the ideas and stuff, and I'm the more business orientated person. So I help him out with the Sydney Glamour Photography, with some phone calls and some of the marketing and that side of it. He does everything else, and he does, you know, more, to push me creatively, to come up with different ideas for Uber. You know, to bring in more that work that way. So we really complement each other nicely. So there's a little bit of crossover, but we're pretty much, you know, sort of running the two parts of the business separately, with me, having the part time staff member to help me out.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so do you help Chris then say with his pricing and his sales strategies and sales?

Kate Buechner: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, right. So you're doing that side, and he's helping you with the creative side of the photography.

Kate Buechner: Exactly, but he's doing all his own sales session, because that's something that I think when you photograph a session, you build a relationship with someone through that process. And so it just makes sense that you're the one that actually sits down and shows them the photos and talk to them about it. So that was the part that Chris had to learn more. He hadn't done the sales session. I did look after all of that when we did weddings, so but I've been able to help him and give him ideas to make it better for him, so that you know he's getting more successful with his sales with those as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. Okay, so you guys have close to a million dollar business?

Kate Buechner: We're getting there.

Andrew Hellmich: That's fantastic. Wow, does that blow you away, like, when you think of those figures?

Kate Buechner: We set ourselves that goal about six or seven years ago, to be a million dollar business, basically. So that's, you know, what we've been working towards, just building each year and increasing our sales so that we get to that point.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you live in the area that you service?

Kate Buechner: We do. Yeah, so we live about 10 minutes from our studio.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And this is probably a hypothetical question, I guess. But do you think you would have the same success and be able to charge what you do if you lived in a lower income area, but came to service the area that you're in?

Kate Buechner: I think a huge part about where I work and the success I have is that I connect with people. And when you're working in a market that you know, and you're effectively, in some ways, your target market, I think it makes that easier. I actually believe I could probably have more success even in a low income area, though, because I'm constantly battling people in terms of, you know, the spend and that there's so many other things I'm competing with. But I know that, yeah, the fact that I connect with my clients is a huge part of my success of getting that relationship happening with them.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. Is that the doorbell?

Kate Buechner: It is the doorbell.

Andrew Hellmich: So you're operating on a street frontage studio?

Kate Buechner: No, so we're actually upstairs now. We moved last year. We were on a street frontage and we came to the end of our lease, and having had a difficult landlord, we decided to make a move. So we're actually upstairs now.

Andrew Hellmich: Upstairs at home, or upstairs in a commercial property?

Kate Buechner: In a commercial property. So, but just not a street frontage. So they come in and they have to go up a flight of stairs to come to us.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, but you still have a front door to the street, if you like.

Kate Buechner: Yes, we do, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Do people when they walk past or down the footpath or the sidewalk, do they know that Uber Photography is there?

Kate Buechner: Not really. We went through this in our old studio. We had that signage. We'd had exposure. There was just two shops together, so we were very standalone. But when you look at your figures, that does not bring your clients, it does build you recognition that your people do know you. But it doesn't bring your clients. So we made a decision when we moved here, that you know, that wasn't a key thing to, you know, as important to us as what we'd initially thought when we first had a studio.

Andrew Hellmich: So how long have you been in the new studio without the street frontage?

Kate Buechner: We've been here a year.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And figures are going up. So obviously, that's true what you're saying. You know that.

Kate Buechner: Yeah, look at a number of sessions is related to the marketing that you do. That's the key to it is it's really comes down to marketing.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so do you think you would be as successful if you're working from home, doing exactly what you're doing?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, I reckon I could do it from home as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool, awesome. All right, just before we get into the how you're doing all this, there's been a topic of discussion inside the members Facebook group. I don't know if you've seen this one, and it's from one of the mums, who's a professional photographer and a member. And she's really struggling with the fact that she's trying to raise kids and run the photography business, and trying to juggle all that goes into all that. And she's had a lot of feedback and comments from other women and guys stay at home dads on that thread. You've got three kids, how you done it?

Kate Buechner: Look, it's about setting guidelines in place for how you run your business.

Andrew Hellmich: How have you built such a successful business and raise a family, look after a house, do all the things that go into that?

Kate Buechner: I think the biggest thing as mums that we have to do, is set up boundaries of when we work. And it's the hardest part of it. So I made a decision while my kids were in primary school that I would be there for them every afternoon. I didn't want them going to after school care. So for the last 14 years of primary school, we've had, I have finished work at three o'clock every day and gone home with my kids. So I had between eight and three Monday or Tuesday to Friday to work and all day Saturday. And so when you know you've got that time frame to work in, it makes you work smart so that you can fit in as much as you can in that time. So, you know, I'd schedule sessions, sales sessions, everything had to be done within that time. And then I just kept working on getting smarter and smarter with my workflow so that I was able to fit that in.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so when you say you would structure your day, would you have, like, one day for shoots or morning for shoots, afternoon for sales sessions. How did you structure that?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, so I try and work at that morning shoots, and then from 12 on is sales sessions. But it doesn't always happen that way, so I don't have a real structure as such to my week. It can be a little bit all over the place, but I get everything done between eight and three and all day on a Saturday.

Andrew Hellmich: Are Saturdays still your biggest days for shooting?

Kate Buechner: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and they're in the studio as well. So who's watching the kids?

Kate Buechner: So, Chris is responsible for the kids. So he races all over the countryside. My boys have sport every Saturday, and my daughter started high school this year. She's also got sport. So he spends his Saturday, kind of racing all over the countryside, coordinating kids and manages them around that.

Andrew Hellmich: How do you cope with that? Because as a dad, I mean, I missed a lot of my kids Saturday sports because I was shooting weddings, and that hurt me. And I can only imagine that it must be even tougher for a mum. Is it tough for you?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, look, I try and have one weekend off a month so that I can go and do that. It doesn't always work. But if there's any way I can be there for the sport, I'm there. But, you know, I look at it, and I think if I went back to a corporate job, I'd be missing much more than that. I'm there for my kids in the afternoon and spending that time with them, so I've had to sacrifice the side of seeing the sport on a Saturday.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, what about emails and phone calls after hours?

Kate Buechner: No, never.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, what happens if someone call Uber Photography. What happens?

Kate Buechner: They get a voice message. So when we're not here, obviously there's someone in the studio between nine and five, and we'll always answer the phone. If they call outside of that time, they get a voice message. I will respond to emails up until 5:30. After that, I don't respond until the following morning, until I'm in at work.

Andrew Hellmich: Do the clients get an automated email response after 5:30?

Kate Buechner: No. I'm normally in at eight in the morning. So I'm normally responding to emails between eight and nine. That's when I do my emails, so they'll get a response first thing in the morning.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. Wow. Let's talk about how you're shooting 300 to 400 sessions a year. First of all, how are you finding the clients that want to have these shoots?

Kate Buechner: Look for me, it's a combination of marketing. Years ago, I went to a seminar that I think you've had him on before, Steve Saporito. And the one thing that stuck in my mind from that was that he said, "You need to have seven sources of marketing underlying your business for it to be successful." And you know, you have those light bulb moments when you go to a seminar. That was one of those for me. So I went, "Okay, I need seven sources of marketing," so I have a lot of repeat clients, so that's kind of one of my first sources. So they come to me through newsletters primarily. So I try once a month to send out a newsletter. Sometimes it's an offer, sometimes it might be a project that I'm working on. Other times, it's just, you know, what we've been up to in the studio, but it's just that keeping in contact with them, that when they're ready to book another session, they get in contact with me. So I've got about 40% of my clients are repeat clients.

Andrew Hellmich: How do people get onto your newsletter?

Kate Buechner: So if they're a client of mine in any shape or form, they get put into my database and they're automatically part of the newsletter.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, is that via Mailchimp, so they can unsubscribe if they want to.

Kate Buechner: Yep. So Mailchimp, so it's got an unsubscribe option in it, so you know, if they want out, they can take themselves out.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, great. And then you said you're making an offer what every second or third month?

Kate Buechner: Look it honestly, it just depends on what I'm working at at that time. So sometimes it's an offer that you know might be up lead up to Christmas, and I'm trying to book some Christmas sessions, so I might have a discounted session fee. Other times, it's a different project that I've been working on. So last year, I did a project with dogs and their kids. You obviously use my database for that. As you know, we'd love you to be part of our project that we're working on.

Andrew Hellmich: All right. So you've got the newsletter and, I guess, and the database, so you're getting a lot of repeat clients. What else are you using for these seven different process or marketing sources?

Kate Buechner: Seven different sources of marketing. So I have some third party promotions with a few different businesses. Most of those have been set up for a long time, and they're just a trickle. So they're not a huge part of it, but they're just a trickle that underlie my business that come through, and they're always family sessions, so they're generally good sales as well. They're very much focused towards bringing in families in so that's another one. I also will support any school or charity in terms of fundraising. So if any school ever approaches me, I've got a couple of different ways that I can help them with obviously, gifting sessions and vouchers and different things. So that's another source of probably, you know, 20 to 30 sessions a year comes from that. So it's not huge, but it's just another little thing that trickles and underlines the business. Another one is referrals. So I have a referral program, and it's actually up on my website with details, and I email and tell my clients about it. So if they refer a friend, I basically waive my session fee for the friend, and I give them $100 credit towards the session they've already done with us, or towards a session in the future. That actually works really well for me, as well of getting people to refer their friends. And the other one is Facebook. So just, you know, different things that you can run through Facebook. I post an image from every single client session on Facebook, and I encourage them to share it with their friends. And you know, that's how Facebook actually works best for me, of just different people seeing my work, and then potentially, you know, contacting me from that. So I don't know how many up to I've lost count.

Andrew Hellmich: That's great. So with Facebook, you're using an Uber Photography account, or you're using Kate Buechner?

Kate Buechner: I'm using Uber Photography.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, okay. And did you tag people in those photos?

Kate Buechner: You used not to be able to tag someone, then you can again. I mean, Facebook's hard because it changes its rules all the time, but literally, what I do is I put the image up, I send an email to my clients going, "I put your image on Facebook. I'd love you to tag it and share it with your friends." And you know, probably five out of 10 tag themselves and share it with their friends, and then, it gets a lot of reach when they do that. So that's I found, is the best way just to let them know that it's on Facebook and encourage them to share it for me.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And do you do that before you've done the sales session? Like, is this like a sneak peek?

Kate Buechner: No.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. Because I don't either. Why do you not do anything before the sales session?

Kate Buechner: I just think it's an image. You know, generally, you'd want to post your favorite image, but then they've already got it, you know, why would they order it if it's already on Facebook? So I never post. I very rarely post. Occasionally, I do. I did one recently. I had a client that came back to me for the third time. It was part of a project, and she was so excited, and so I made a decision to post a sneak peek for her, because I knew it she would share it with multiple friends, and that was the reason why. But that's, you know, the kind of rarity in terms of that's really the only reason why I would do it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and because it was part of a project, you probably knew that she's going to be spending more money.

Kate Buechner: Exactly right.

Andrew Hellmich: Keep going with the project, right. Okay, so there was no risk of devaluing the sale.

Kate Buechner: Exactly right. So if otherwise, I find that you are risking, devaluing the sale by putting that sneak peek out there for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so I'm imagining that you've experimented with this in the past, having shot as much as you're right.

Kate Buechner: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so if I come down for a family shoot with you, and I say, Kate, can you put up a sneak peek before the sales session? What do you say?

Kate Buechner: My clients don't ask me.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, really.

Kate Buechner: Well, because I don't say yes. So you know, there's no sneak peeks on my Facebook page if they've been to look at it. And so they understand that it's not gonna be. I mean, the other thing for them as well is I try and get a client back in for a sales session as soon as possible. So generally, you know, within a week of their session. So they know they're coming to see all their photos, and they're excited about that. So there's not that they have to wait weeks if they want to come tomorrow to see their photos, I'll have it ready for them tomorrow. So you know, I think that's part of it as well, is that they've got a date and they know they're not going to have to wait forever. So they're not going well I want to see something because it could be weeks before I get to see the rest of the photos.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it, okay. Did you have any trouble with clients not wanting you to post anything on, say, your website or Facebook or social media anywhere?

Kate Buechner: Yep. Look, I have it all the time, and I'm totally respectful of that. And I use the example because of being a photographer in the area. And you know, my kids go to school in this area as well. My kids need their privacy, and I get that some parents want privacy for the children. They don't want the photos out there. So if they tell me, "No", that's not a problem at all. From my perspective, I write on their file, no images to be used, and we would never use an image. That's not a problem at all.

Andrew Hellmich: So when do you have that discussion with them?

Kate Buechner: So they actually up front, people sign terms and conditions with me, saying "I can use their images." But I clarify it again with them when they sign off on their order. So I say to them, "Yeah, look, I'm going to use your images potentially for this. Are you happy?" And if they say no, then I mark it on their order at that stage. So they've kind of got two opportunities to say it to me. So I used Tave for my workflow. And people always say to me, "How are you doing the 300 sessions?" Well, if it wasn't for Tave, I wouldn't be, it's a key proponent of my business, and part of the booking process for me is that I send them out a questionnaire, so I know exactly who's going to be included in the session. It asks them what kind of products they're interested in as well. So I get an idea of that, and then they have to sign my Terms and Conditions, and one of those states that I could potentially use their images, and they all sign it. It's really funny. They do that, and they're fine at that point. But then often, when they see the order and they go to sign, that's when they'll say to me, "Oh, look, I don't want any images used." And as I said, "It's not a problem at all for me. I'm totally respectful of people and not wanting those images out there."

Andrew Hellmich: I can understand more in your case, that it's not an issue because you're shooting so much. I was asking because I know that some listeners are having an issue with getting enough photos to post, you know, to social media, because their clients are all saying, you know, "We don't want our photos shown", and that becomes a problem.

Kate Buechner: It's very much about how you word it to people that can cause that to happen. We use ProSelect for our sales session, and we print out the order, and on the end of that that comes up with the copyright. And if I just say to people, "You read this", they're generally okay with it. It's more when you say, 'Yo, I'd really like to use an image on the website', that they can kind of get a bit funnier about it. So it's got a lot to do with how you word it to them, as well as to that sharing part of it.

Andrew Hellmich: You mean word it face to face, or in writing?

Kate Buechner: I think in writing it can sometimes be a bit more scary to them. If you're sending them, you know that Terms and Conditions up front to sign, then actually explaining to them face to face what you're going to use the images for. And that you're not going to use their name and things like that. Yeah, I think it's sometimes saying it to them. It's the wording you use when you say it to them that can have an impact on them, saying yes or no to using the images.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, got it. I'd love to ask you about the schools thing that you're doing. So, anyone that contacts you, you'll give them a voucher or support them in some way with photography?

Kate Buechner: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you ever think 'I'm just giving this stuff away for free?' Like, what return are you seeing?

Kate Buechner: So when I give something away, it's always a session and one photo included. Because for me, it's really important that it's not I come and do a session and they have to spend money. Because, then people often feel tricked into doing it. So I'm a big believer, "If you do an amazing job with a session, that people will buy more", and in 90% of cases, people do buy more. So, I basically give them the full service, as I would a normal client, sit down and show them the photos. And it's up to them as to what they want to do. But my sales can vary from 100 or nothing, sometimes with third party promotions, up to five or $6,000 and I'm not concerned about that. I'm concerned about my average and where my average is sitting. That's what I'm always focused on, rather than each individual sale. I'm a big believer in you treat every client exactly the same, no matter how much they spend.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. What is a session fee?

Kate Buechner: So, my session fee is $200 and has $100 credit towards photos.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so when you say you do a promotion with a school and you give away a print is that an eight by 12 or seven by 10?

Kate Buechner: It varies from school to school as to what it is. So, yeah, sometimes it's an eight by 12. Sometimes it's big. It depends on the school and what they're doing and how it's going to be run. So if it's a silent auction, I tend to give them a little bit more. If it's a raffle, then I tend to do less, and I find raffles aren't as successful. And so yeah, I very much sort of judge on what it is. So it does vary a little bit.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, so I'm leading to a question here. So what does an eight by 12 cost with you?

Kate Buechner: $150.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you might be giving away, say, a $350 voucher to the school to go into a silent auction. So someone you get a call say, "Hey, I bid for it and won this voucher for a photo shoot." What happens with that client then? Do you take that call? Do you start talking to them? Do they go online?

Kate Buechner: Yes, generally, I put a thing in there saying, "Please register your voucher." And there's a link on my website that they can just pop-on and register the voucher so that I've got their details and I can keep in contact with them.

Andrew Hellmich: So hang on, does it say that on the voucher?

Kate Buechner: Yes. So there's just a thing, a little flyer in there, just saying, "Please pop onto our website, register the voucher", and I do that with any promotion. So it's so much easier if you've got the client's details and you can chase them up for their session, than you know, the client having to come to you. I mean, we've all done it. We've all been given a gift voucher at some time and never got round to using it. So I encourage people to register so that I can follow up with them. And that's where Tave comes in as well, because that gives me the ability to follow up with people. That gives I schedule a call or an email to follow up. But my first step is to say, "You know, thank you for registering your voucher. These are the details of when your sessions can be timing around for that." Those clients as well, if they want a weekend session, they have to pay what I call a holding deposit, so it's $100. The reason for that is that, obviously, I have limited Saturday sessions. And I don't want people to cancel on me, and if they've paid something, they don't cancel. If they haven't paid anything, they will cancel on you the day beforehand. So that actually has made a massive difference to me, that people don't and if they do need to reschedule, they're really apologetic about it, rather than just thinking, "Oh, just yeah, it's too much effort for tomorrow. We won't rock up." Well, that's not good enough for me, so I just tell them, you know, there's $100 holding deposit for any weekend date that they have to pay before I can book in that date for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so that holding deposit, that's a credit toward their order, or they get it back even they don't order anything,.

Kate Buechner: Yep, so I say it to them "That will be used as a credit towards photos that you want to order. If you decide you don't wish to order, I will refund that back to you."

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, got it, all right. Awesome. So when do you bring up the idea? Yeah, let's say I've won this voucher at a silent auction. I bid it for and won it, and I ring you. When do you tell me that I have the option to buy more? Or is that automatically implied?

Kate Buechner: It's kind of automatically implied. But I also speak to them and say, "Look, you know, there's no obligation to purchase photos from the session, but most families do like to, so when you book in and I send you a confirmation, I'm actually going to send you my full pricing information so you have that beforehand to have a look through." Some people you know espouse not telling them pricing until they're actually in the sales session or that goes against everything that's me. So I have made a decision that I will always give them the pricing before the session. I want them to see that. I want them to know that they can afford to potentially buy some other photos.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so would you rather they cancel and not go ahead?

Kate Buechner: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, you would. If, rather than being put off by the pricing and still having to shoot, you rather than just cancel.

Kate Buechner: Exactly right. But honestly, it very rarely happens. It does. I mean, that's the reality. If you give pricing information up front, there will be some people look at it and go, "I just can't afford it." But I'm always amazed that people look at me and sometimes go, "Oh, you're expensive", but if they value it, that the cost goes out of it. And so, you know, they don't worry about and I'm honest about it, that's the other thing that people are often scared about. If you won't give them the pricing information up front, well, why won't you? You know, so that's for me. As I said, I've made a decision that I will never operate without people seeing my pricing up front.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you don't have it on your website, but you'll send it to the client once they make a booking. Is that right?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, look. So someone inquires and says to me, "Can I have your pricing?" It's no drama. They get an email back going. "Here's my full pricing information." I give them everything. So if people ask pricing, I will give it to them with some promotions. You know, they don't see it until they've got their session confirmation. So they've booked in. They've done that. They get a session confirmation, and it's in there. If they have a problem at that point, they'll contact me then, so they're getting it before the session. That's the most important thing to me, that they're not coming into session to do the photos without having seen that pricing information.

Andrew Hellmich: You sound like you've got all these systems in place, like you know exactly how everything runs in your business, which is understandable because you're so busy. Do you still refine little things as you're going?

Kate Buechner: Always.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, really? How does something get implemented, something new, and how do you test to see if it stays?

Kate Buechner: So, if I find that I've got the same issue coming up on a regular basis, then I look at it and I go, "Well, something has to change. I need to refine it", and I'll try something different and see how it goes over the next 10 clients. If it makes a difference, great. If it doesn't, then I'll revert back to what I was doing beforehand. But it's just always looking at everything and just thinking, is it working? Are there things that I could be doing better? But I'm also a big believer in you've got to put your systems in place and your business rules in place so that you're very clear on that. So you know, if someone says to me, "Okay, I want you to drive out to a country property and do a photo shoot", my answer is, "No." I haven't got time to spend an hour driving to a country property to do their photos. It just doesn't factor into the time that I have. So I'm happy to say no to people. And the interesting thing is, you know, I had one recently, actually, they were from the Central Coast and wanted me to come to their home to do their session there. And I said, "You know, I'm sorry, I don't. There's an option, you can come to the North Shore, or you can come to my studio and do the session, and I'm really happy to do it." And they came back and booked me.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay, do you think because they loved your work, because you..

Kate Buechner: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Why?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, I think because they genuinely, they found my website. They love my work, and they want me. So, they understand that I won't travel to them. That's just how it is. And yet, everyone's got different rules around what they want to do and what suits them. So I know lots of photographers that love that travel part. For me, at the moment, it doesn't work in terms of my business and what I want to be doing, so I'm prepared to lose a booking to say no to them.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think with the like you said, you're bringing more into the studio, you've got this systematized now, and you need to do that to get the numbers that you're looking to get.

Kate Buechner: Exactly right. But it's also when you get to a point that you're doing a number of sessions. It's even more important at that point that you build the relationships with your clients, because I don't ever want them to feel like they are a number. Every client is different and unique and has their own wants and everything. So I'm very focused on building a relationship with a client so they don't feel like they're a number at all in my system. They would go, "Kate's amazing", and that's what I want them to say about the experience.

Andrew Hellmich: Can you give me an example of how you do that, how you build that relationship?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, so one of the things that I do, so again, we'll refer back to Tave. Sounds like I'm trying to sell a Tave, but I'm not. I have no affiliation with them. I've just been using them for a long time, and I love it. One of their sections is Notes. So if someone says something particular to me, I make a note of it there, so that, you know, down the track, if they come back, I can remember that. And I spend a lot of times just talking to my clients, asking them questions, finding out about them and who they are. And I'm amazed sometimes with what people will share with me, but at the same time, I love that, because I have this relationship with them. And it's just remembering little things can make a huge difference to a client. And it sounds funny, you even remember a client once and she rang up. It was actually 10 years later, and she'd ordered something and she'd given it to her mother, and she rang me and said, "Oh, look, I don't know if you remember me or whatever." And I put her details in Tave, and it popped up, and I had her kids names, and I said, "Gosh, yeah, William and Charlotte must be so big by now." And I could see her almost falling off the chair, going, "How, how does you remember 10 years", and you know that little extra bit that people go, "Wow. Okay, she actually cares."

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, that client, are you talking about now. There's no way that she's going to go anywhere for the next week and not talk about you.

Kate Buechner: Exactly right.

Andrew Hellmich: So you finish a session or a chat on the phone or an email exchange, and someone shares something with you that automatically then goes into Tave that you'll stop and do that.

Kate Buechner: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so Tave for you is really a CRM. You're using it like a salesperson would use it in a corporate job.

Kate Buechner: I'm using every part of it. So I use the Notes part to make notes, obviously, of what I've talked to people about. I track my sales through it so I can go back through five years of data in my system, of you know, my sales. What that client spent with me in the past, exactly what they ordered. Everything is in there for me. So I've got every bit of information about my client recorded in there.

Andrew Hellmich: If I give you a call and I tell you my name, is the first thing you do, typing into Tave?

Kate Buechner: Yep.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, because that's going to tell you straight away what we've talked about, my kids names, how much I spent. Is that all there on one page?

Kate Buechner: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: That's pretty cool. Awesome. So you've taken the whole thing to a different level. You really are like a corporate I mean. I'm not saying this in a bad way, but you know, when I was a sales rep for a fishing tackle company, I would make those notes after I spoke to a fishing tackle shop owner. Because I want to remember when I saw him in six weeks’ time, what we talked about last time. You're doing the same thing with every client.

Kate Buechner: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Beautiful, awesome.

Kate Buechner: Yeah. Yeah, it seems corporate in some ways, but it's that extra level of customer service that people are going to remember. And how do you stand out in a crowded market? You give amazing customer service.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Yeah. And like I said, when I'm saying corporate or labeling your style that way, that's not tended as a put down at all. I think it's amazing what you're doing. I think you need to have those systems you're shooting the kind of numbers that you are. What would you say to the listener that's not shooting those kind of numbers?

Kate Buechner: I'd say, "Really look after your clients and get to know them. Take that extra time to build a relationship with them", and you'll find that they will refer their friends and they will become the people that go out in the community and talk about your business. So people always talk about brand, and brand is actually five years ago, 5-10 years ago, I would have looked at and gone brand. How do you form a brand? How do you do that? But I've realized a brand is, yes, it's knowing your logo and things like that, for bigger businesses. But for us as a small business, it's about people advocating your brand. So saying "We had photos done by Kate, and she was just lovely." "Nothing was a problem, she was helpful through the process. She was clear and upfront with pricing. " "She got to know my kids." It's all those extra little things that build your brand, so when people are talking about it, they become your advocates. They're the ones that rave about you, and I think being a huge part of why I have the numbers that I do. Because I constantly focused on giving amazing customer service so that people will become the ones that tell everyone else about me.

 
Sign up to listen to the Premium Version at https://photobizx.com/premium-membership
 

Andrew Hellmich: Kate, we didn't get time to get to the 10 quick questions, but I know the listener always loves when I ask my last question, which is, have you ever had an embarrassing moment or a stuff up that you're happy to share?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, I think my most embarrassing moment, I was at a wedding one day, and I had a bridal party of 15 people in front of me, and I dropped my camera. One half of the lens went one side. The camera went the other one. And you know when you just want to curl up and die, go on my camera, and I pulled out my spare out of my bag. "Yeah, let's keep going, guys."

Andrew Hellmich: What was the camera that you dropped?

Kate Buechner: It's probably a D7100 back in those days, with a 24 to 70 on and it's why you should always have. We were actually on Cockatoo Island.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh no.

Kate Buechner: And thank God I had my backup camera in my camera bag that I pulled out with no problem. "Guys, let's get going." I just wanted to curl up in a little hole on the ground. And, oh, how embarrassing. So I learned my lesson. Put the camera strap around your neck when you're shooting, because it can make a difference, so..

Andrew Hellmich: Oh man, that's, yeah, that's not good. That's not good. Okay, this has been an absolute pleasure for me. I've had a great time chatting to you and hearing about how you're doing things. And you know, for me and the listener, we're both wishing you every success for the future. I know you don't need it from us, but you're doing amazing things. Where is the best place for the listener to check out your work?

Kate Buechner: So it's just uberphotography.com.au, and then just click to Portrait. So you'll see we have two parts. We have Commercial and Portraits. We find it's better to keep them separate. And all my works there or otherwise on Facebook, @Uber Photography, and we're also on Instagram, which is Uber Photography as well. One thing I just quickly wanted to mention that I've talked about Tave and I raved about it, and you know that I use it. I do also offer a setup service for Tave. So if anyone has been thinking about it and bit overwhelmed with the whole idea of doing it, I'd love them to contact me and I can give them some details of what I can actually do to set it up for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal. I'll add links to anything and everything that you've mentioned, and I'm going to find out a little bit more about that service you're offering. And yeah, we have a chat about that, and I can definitely share that a little bit more as well. Are you worried about Uber cars now?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, so we should say we've been around for 15 years. We been Uber first.

Andrew Hellmich: Does that matter?

Kate Buechner: Yeah, well, kind of, when Uber first started a few years ago, we got so many phone calls. So you get people going out, ringing out, going, I want to drive a car, like..

Andrew Hellmich: Oh man, really.

Kate Buechner: "I'm really happy for you, but we don't do that." So, you know, it's one of those things. You sometimes things are outside of your control, and you just have to go with it. The plus side is everyone knows that name Uber now, whereas we used to have to spell it for people. So these days, that part of it's easier. But yeah, we did definitely have it first. We should have just registered uber.com and then we would have been really good.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, oh, that's for sure. So have you trademarked your name, or you have it registered as a business only?

Kate Buechner: We only have a register as a business.

Andrew Hellmich: So have you looked into the trademarking side of things at all?

Kate Buechner: We haven't. I mean, I've had varying people over the years mention it and but yeah, it's not something that we have looked into, so it is probably potentially something we should look into.

Andrew Hellmich: My guess is that Uber cars has already trademarked it. So I'm not sure, it'd be interesting to see what happens anyway. What would happen if they said you've got to change names?

Kate Buechner: That would be very difficult. Don't want to go there.

Andrew Hellmich: To me, I thought, you know, with your newsletter and your contacts and how long you've been operating for, that wouldn't be as big a deal as would be for say, someone's been going for one year.

Kate Buechner: Yeah, look, I mean, it would be one of those things. I guess you'd have to transition across. And she said, I've got that database and everything with it, but people do know the name Uber, because it does stand out. So Uber Photography is, you know, people know that, so it would definitely affect us to change it.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, yeah, I think that's a conversation for a whole another episode.

Kate Buechner: Exactly right.

Andrew Hellmich: Kate, again, thank you so much.

Kate Buechner: And, you're most welcome. Thanks for talking to me.