025: Jonas Peterson – Ignore Wedding Photography for Wedding Photography Success

025: Jonas Peterson – Ignore Wedding Photography for Wedding Photography Success

Andrew Hellmich: Now, as I mentioned earlier, today, my guest is Jonas Peterson, and normally, when I introduce a guest to the podcast, I'll go over some of their awards, and it's no secret that Jonas has plenty of awards, and if they're a well-known photographer, I'll mention how the industry might see them. And you probably know Jonas is considered to be one of the world's best wedding photographers. Today's introduction, though, is a little bit different, because I want to read you an email I received from Jerome, a regular listener, who when I mentioned to him by email that I'll be interviewing Jonas this week, I asked Jerome if he actually knew of Jonas, and this was his reply. "This is how I first heard of Jonas. I met a potential client in a cafe in Northcote a few years back, when I just started. After they flicked through my two sample albums without saying a single word, the guy handed me his iPad and said, "We want images like this." It was Jonas's blog. I then plowed through page after page of Jonas's blog until I realized I just spent 15 minutes "Ooh-ing and aww-ing" about his work like I was the client and they were the photographer. They didn't book me." Jonas, welcome to the podcast.

Jonas Peterson: Thank you.

Andrew Hellmich: You're amazing photographer, and from the outside looking in, I mean, I've never met you, but when I look at the success you have and you're having and the work that you do, it appears that things come easy to you. Is that the way it is?

Jonas Peterson: I would say that I do work very hard for what I do. I mean, I am probably one of the busier wedding photographers around as well. I mean, I do shoot 50-60 weddings a year all around the world. So yes, I mean, there's a lot of success, but there's also a lot of work involved in all that. So I've had in this, this is all my 50 year shooting, and I've had a very sort of, in other people's eyes, and a lot of success very quickly. And there is truth to that, but it's also a lot of groundwork done even before I started shooting. I think that a lot of people don't really know about.

Andrew Hellmich: You mean learning, learning photography, or what sort of ground work?

Jonas Peterson: Well, I started shooting weddings. I started as a professional photographer when I was 36 years old. I had, before that, spent 10 years in advertising as a creative, so copywriter, writing TV commercials, and before that, I did a bunch of other things. So in many ways, I've been a paid storyteller way, way, way longer than I been a photographer. So I had a lot of things with me coming into wedding photography that a lot of people seem to think that I came up with when I started. But that's not really true.

Andrew Hellmich: If you're shooting 50 or 60 weddings a year. I mean, with the reputation and you know that you have, I can imagine you wouldn't have to shoot that many. I mean, you could shoot 30 or 40 or 20?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, well, I'm on in the process of cutting down, and I think, not, well, you can still do it, but it's just a matter of me wanting to cut back, to be able to focus on some other work, maybe, and simply have some time-off. But I said to myself that when you're building your business, I want to shoot as much as I can, to build both reputation and but also get as much good work out as possible. And I think I've done that. So now it's time to sort of maybe take a step back and try and relax a little bit more.

Andrew Hellmich: You know, with your, I want to say quick growth, because you've told me there's a big, a lot of groundwork that's gone into that. Sorry..

Jonas Peterson: It took off. Well, it was quick, because it took off pretty much straight away. I mean, I did from nothing to shoot 35 weddings my first year and then 65 my second year as a shooter. So it did go pretty quickly.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so let's go back to that first year. How did you book 35 weddings in that first year?

Jonas Peterson: Well, there's where the groundwork comes in and where people don't really know this about me. The thing is, I had a personal blog for four or five years before I started shooting so and I had an audience of 175,000, 200,000 people following me. So when I started my photography business, I already had a huge following of people online that just already followed me. They linked to my website, and that, of course, helped things like SEO and after 10 days of being in business, I was the first name on Google. And, of course, things like that help.

Andrew Hellmich: That's amazing. So what was the blog about?

Jonas Peterson: It was my personal blog in Swedish, so it has nothing to do with anything, and I started writing it when I moved to Australia nine years ago. So it was just me writing. I mean, I'm a writer. I was a writer for 10 years. It was just me writing about personal things, and it got a big following pretty quickly over in Sweden. And then once I started my business, I knew things about, everyone knows about SEO and these things today. When I was blogging, no one had even heard the word. So I knew things going in that was pretty handy to know and then use that when I started my business.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so is the blog still going now?

Jonas Peterson: No, I actually stopped writing it when I started my business, and then I started focusing on my, on my other things, social media presence when it came to my business instead.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're still working pretty hard on the business side of things and not just relying on reputation.

Jonas Peterson: I would say so. I think a lot of people seem to forget that social media, social media is a weird word, calling it that, but it is the internet. I mean, a lot of what we do when it comes to business happens online today, so I do spend time working on things like Facebook and a lot of things, Twitter and even Instagram and Pinterest and these things. I don't do them with just a business hat on. I mean, I do them because I enjoy them, but I do know that they're very beneficial. I have a lot of people following me on different, on the different platforms and, and I can't hurt. Someone said about social media that it's word of mouth on crack, and I really think that's true.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, right. So do you, do you have, I mean, you said you don't go in with a business head or when you're using those, those mediums. But do you have a strategy?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, I do, actually. I use different platforms, different ways. I have a, well, I have my blog, obviously, which is my website. I used to treat the blog as a blog as a journal, but over time, it became my portfolio so you rarely see me post anything that's not a full wedding on my blog anymore. Instead, I use Facebook business page on Facebook for that, and you'll see single images previews and I talk about my workshops and stuff, that all happens on Facebook today. And by using Facebook, I went from 5,000 likes or fans to now 20,000 today, in less than a year.

Andrew Hellmich: So with Facebook, is that still there just to drive people back to the website? Or use Facebook as a standalone thing?

Jonas Peterson: Now I use it as a standalone thing. I used to use it exactly like you said. Now, used to link people back to the website, but today I'm not too worried about that. I actually use it, like you said, as a standalone thing, and that is probably more important now than the website when it comes to drumming up interest and all that sort of stuff.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, and you, and you mentioned workshops there. I know you're currently running workshops, aren't you? Whereabouts are you at the moment?

Jonas Peterson: I am in Sweden right now, where I'm from, and I've just done two workshops, two three day workshops here on an island called Gotland, which is in the Baltic Sea. And before that, I came from shooting a wedding in Italy and Belgium the week before that, and the week before, I had a workshop in Paris, Paris, France. So I've done about six workshops this year around the world. So yeah, it's part of what I do now.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So how much of your business is, or what percentage is workshops? What percentage is you know of your income is coming from weddings?

Jonas Peterson: Still, a lot of, I mean, I shoot a lot still, but I do about six, seven workshops every year, and they have 15 people at each workshop, and they all pay around $2,000 so it's, there's quite a bit of money coming in from workshops, but the main, the bulk of what I do and where my money comes from, is still shooting weddings.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And you do, you feel that that sense that a lot of photographers are making as much or a lot of their income now from running workshops rather than their craft?

Jonas Peterson: It's something to be worried about, weary of. I think there is a workshop sort of boom and trend, and everyone and their donkey are doing workshops. So I think you need to sort of know what you're doing. And there's really sort of the allure of doing workshops. It's, I think it's easy money and all that. But it can backfire pretty quickly, and it will probably do that once you read about these people doing workshops, and they don't really do anything that's different or sort of worth the money. I mean, people are spending a lot of money on workshops, and they should walk away with a lot of knowledge for that money.

Andrew Hellmich: When I come to one of your workshops, am I, you find that most of the people that are coming that because they want to shoot like you?

Jonas Peterson: It's an element of that, I guess, but they'd be pretty discouraged very quickly, because I'd say this is not a workshop about that at all. And if you think that you're going to leave after three days or two days, or however long it is, thinking and shooting like me, I have failed. Instead, I want them to sort of walk away thinking that the way they are, the way they shoot, that's what they should work on and then just get better at that, instead of trying to be someone else.

Andrew Hellmich: But, today, I mean talking to all the people that are involved with the podcast, listeners, you know, their biggest worry or their biggest, the hardest hurdle for them to overcome is shooting the way they want to shoot, that everyone seems to be following someone else and not trusting their own instinct.

Jonas Peterson: Exactly. And that's something I talk a lot about. It's a whole segment on that during the workshop, to not look at us at all. I mean, I actually don't look at any other wedding photographers for that very reason. I think it will just dilute what I do. And I think a lot of people look at too many other wedding photographers for inspiration, and I think it really is a problem. You'll see so many people starting out in the first couple of years, they're just meandering around copying other wedding photographers. So I think that's something that people should stay away from. I don't mind when people do it with me, but I think they will just take them further away from being themselves.

Andrew Hellmich: So okay, so if there's a new photographer listening, or someone in the first five years of their business, which I think is probably a big portion of my audience, what would you tell them to do?

Jonas Peterson: I would tell them to feed their brain with as much stuff as possible. But maybe not wedding photography. There's so much else, so much out there. They could look at the masters that have been before us, or in documentary photography, fine art photography, fashion photography, popular culture. Go and watch a play, go to an art museum, study Jeffrey Smart, who's a painter, do things like that, and then bring that into your work. And by doing that, you will have created something new and unique, instead of just copying another wedding photographer and already sort of diluting the kiddie pool you're in.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that what you did when you started, you know, when you had that first 35 weddings, that first year? How did you tackle that?

Jonas Peterson: I did and I didn't. I started out doing what everyone does, look at other photographers, especially other wedding photographers. But then I realized that when I was in a pickle during a wedding that I would try and emulate someone else. I wonder what so and so would do here, or run out of ideas for the portraits, maybe I should shoot like so and so and I realized that that didn't help me at all. I just became a weaker version of what they, who they are, and then I stopped cold turkey looking at wedding photography. And instead, whenever I sort of had an issue or wanted to solve a problem during a shoot, I'd have to come up with my own solution. And instead of drawing from a memory bank or wedding images, I would have to find other memory images that I've seen during my life and try and incorporate them into my work. And by doing that, my style became me instead of someone else's.

Andrew Hellmich: So I mean, you must have faced some pretty hairy moments. Then if you totally switched off. And, I mean, how long have you already been shooting for at this stage?

Jonas Peterson: When I started shooting weddings, or just when I stopped looking at?

Andrew Hellmich: Just shooting, shooting in general.

Jonas Peterson: I had been a very sort of avid amateur photographer for about 10 years before I started, before my first wedding, and in that time, I probably spent every waking hour with a camera in my hand, but never, yeah, so, but I was never, never paid to do it. I've been published in very strange places. I've been published in winning some competition or being published in National Geographic and stuff like that. So I wouldn't say it was an accomplished photographer, but I sort of knew my way around, if that makes sense.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. And for people that haven't seen your work, how would you describe your style of photography?

Jonas Peterson: That's, yeah, I get the question sometimes I don't do that. I don't like to call it anything. It is me. But if I would have to break it down, I mean, it is everything I've always loved. It's a mix of documentary photography, the portraiture is probably more inspired by maybe some sort of fine art photography, but then I mean wedding photographer needs to have so much skill in shooting so many different things. It's portraiture, it's emotion, it's documentary, it's product photography and event photography, whatever you want to call it. So I hope that it is a mix of everything, and it is me, so the style is me and I don't want to call it wedding photojournalism or anything like that, because it's so much more and so much less, so many different things.

Andrew Hellmich: So I mean, do you give it? Do you give any direction at all on the wedding day? Or is that 100%, is it photojournalistic?

Jonas Peterson: I do give direction during when I shoot my portraits, but I don't really do anything else. I don't like to create anything during the getting ready part of the day. I don't have, if people ask me for input for ceremonies and stuff, I just tell them, focus on getting married, and I'll adapt to that. And but I don't my, I mean, I see other photographers that set up things during both getting ready and other parts of the day, and I'm fine with that, but it's just not for me. So the only time I will direct and very, very mildly, I should say, is during the portraits. It's more prompting and creating a setting or a scene and then letting people be themselves within that setting and scene. So it's very little direction.

Andrew Hellmich: Are you looking for the best light, though, and then sort of taking them over to there? Or are you just using what you have?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, I'm a sucker for light and a good composition. So I've just used them find the almost as the scene and setting before, and then putting the people in that place and then getting them to interact mainly there. And then I'll just document that. That's pretty much what I do.

Jonas Peterson: Now, let me take you back to that introduction, that letter that I read from Jerome, and he's sitting there with these clients, and they're telling him that they want him to shoot like you.

Jonas Peterson: Yep, that's a score for me.

Andrew Hellmich: But what if a client comes to you today and they say, "Janice, look, we really love you. We want to book you, but we're not crazy about your black and whites."

Jonas Peterson: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: What do you do? What do you say?

Jonas Peterson: I think it's important to tell them that my style is me, but I mean something like that, the black and white, and I'll just tell them, no problem, I shoot it all in color. And I will probably do that, but it's a warning sign that I think that you should be aware of when something like that happens. And if someone comes to me and says that they want to, they love my style but and then they want to recreate someone else's photos, then I will tell them that that's probably not a good idea, because I've had to do that several times, and I think a lot of photographers, especially starting out, get that and then you try and think, how hard can it be, but it's almost impossible to add, shoot someone else's photos through your eyes, and it's probably better that you tell them that what I do is what I do, and I'll try and capture your wedding the best way I can. But trying to recreate sometimes these photos is usually not the best idea.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so would you? Would you knock back the wedding?

Jonas Peterson: No

Andrew Hellmich: Or have you ever?

Jonas Peterson: No, I don't think I have. I had, I just said pretty much this to a client once who wanted to, well, I had a meeting with the client, and they said, "We love this guy, and his name is Todd Hunter McGowan." He's a good friend of mine. So I said, "I think, I think maybe then you should call Todd." And then they said, "Yeah, we did. He's busy, and he can't shoot us." So not only am I your second choice, you rather the photos look like Todd's. But in the end, I told them that, "Well, it's going to look like my photos, and if it's what you're looking for is Todd, then you'll be disappointed probably." And in the end, they knocked me back and changed their date and booked Todd. So I think, I think it's, you still put it to be honest and open. And I wouldn't knock it back, but I will probably say that it's going to look like the rest of my work. And I actually had a wedding just a couple of weeks ago where they asked me to recreate a bunch of photos from other photographers. And I did do it because it was a destination wedding, and it was sprung on me the day before the wedding, but I will tell you, the results are relatively underwhelming. So yeah, because you're doing something that has nothing to do with your style, and it's just going to look like that.

Andrew Hellmich: So, sorry. Why was it underwhelming? Because they wanted you to shoot like someone else?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, I think they wanted style of photos that I don't normally do, and I think it's back to what I said about due to my first year. It's just going to look like a weaker version of someone else. They're probably happy with the photos, but for me, it just looks like I'm trying to emulate someone else. And even if I do, sort of, even if I nail it, it's still weaker than the original, I think, and that's something I'm a bit allergic to.

Andrew Hellmich: And I noticed when I was looking at your website that you, you happily give away, or you, you sell the high res files?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, I do. Yeah, it was something. And that's back to marketing, I think, coming from an advertising background. When I started out in 2008 I just looked at what the competition did, and I looked at what I would like to have out of a wedding photographer myself, and then I catered to that. But I also have a higher starting price than most other photographers regionally. So it's not like I'm giving them away. I charge a premium for them, but it's sort of included in my package, but in my package, start at a higher price point, than a lot of other people do.

Andrew Hellmich: So your I think your prices are on your website, aren't they?

Jonas Peterson: I have a starting price there, but to get my full prices, I want you to contact me. That's again, for marketing reasons. If they do that, I can, then I know more about their wedding, and I can decide if I A, I want to refer to someone else, which is good for business, or B, if it sounds like it's an amazing opportunity and I'm too expensive for them, then I can maybe drop my price if I want to, but without having, if I put all my prices on my website, I will lose that opportunity because they might not even contact me.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you have a starting price of, it's $5,000 I think it is on your website?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, that is, yeah, I should take that. It's actually $7,000 the actual, the actual five, 5000 numbers on there, it's my, that's my day rate. But then you won't receive any images, so just piss people off.

Andrew Hellmich: So if I pay $5,000 that's just for you to show up.

Jonas Peterson: Pretty much and take photos and then you never see anything, sort of defeats the purpose.

Andrew Hellmich: It's good for your portfolio.

Jonas Peterson: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: So okay, so then so they might so really, it starts at $7,000 so, but you want them to contact you. So you would actually juggle your prices, or you won't stick to your guns if there's an opportunity there for you. Is that what you're saying?

Jonas Peterson: I will. It doesn't happen very often, and I won't tell, I shouldn't tell people that publicly as an analysis, saying it here on the podcast. But the thing is that I have the opportunity to do it if I feel it would benefit me, my business. I won't do it, I'm not stupid, I won't shoot for free for experience and that sort of stuff anymore. But if I see that this wedding will get me published, or will get me more weddings in this area, or say I want to shoot more in Italy, and I get a Tuscany inquiry, then I will be smart about it, and I will ask them, "Okay, of course, I will send them my full prices first. But if I feel they want some wiggling room there. I'm not stupid. I know I'm going to book more business out of that, and then, yeah, I would shoot for free. I will even pay for it if I think it would benefit me financially from other bookings another year. And I think too many people are, they don't look at it that way. To me, it's a long term investment. So that's how I look at it.

Andrew Hellmich: I don't, like I said, I didn't I don't know you at all, and I didn't know you beforehand. But when I, when I look at your work and your website, you come across as an artist. But now, when I'm talking to you now, you come across as a businessman.

Jonas Peterson: Well, I am, and I think that and a lot of people, now, I mean, I've just come fresh out of two workshops here, and I think it's, I want people to walk away with business and the artistry and how to find yourself, your voice, and all that sort of stuff. And a lot of photographers, especially, are really bad at the business side of things. They're happy that they get to do what they do, but I'm running a business, and I'm going to treat it that way.

Andrew Hellmich: So what do you think are the biggest mistakes that newer photographers are making?

Jonas Peterson: Oh, that's hard to say, but pricing self is too low, I think it's a thing that people do, and then they say, "Yeah, but I want to, I want to get a lot of business early on and all that." But I think, yeah, it's pricing yourself too low, and then we'll just end up shooting budget people who don't appreciate the photography you do and all that sort of stuff. So it's sort of a catch 22 thing. You don't get any business, so then you want to get more business, but then you get the wrong type of business. So that's one thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Let me just ask you. So if I'm too cheap, or if a photographer is too cheap, and we want, I want to charge more, but I'm not going to get the bookings in. So how? What's the best way to get from this, say, from a $3,000 wedding package to a $5,000 wedding package?

Jonas Peterson: It's difficult to say. I think the type of work you put on your website is the most important. If your wedding looks like a $7,000 wedding, you'll book more clients like that. So we just have to, I was very, early on, I only published the work that looked the way that I wanted to shoot in the future, if that makes sense? So, so for instance, yeah, I would actually, and I still do that. I only publish, I only show what I want to sell. And I do that still, and I've always done that. So what you see on my website is what I want to shoot. And I did that from day one, actually. So there was weddings my first six months that I never showed because I knew that I didn't want to book that sort of work. It has nothing to do with people being poor or whatever, it's just a matter of to be able to move into a certain price range, I need to show work that looks like that price range.

Andrew Hellmich: At the actual wedding, you're shooting photos that the bride and groom will love and that they want, but you're not necessarily happy to promote.

Jonas Peterson: I wouldn't call it that, but I will definitely make sure that I shoot both for them and for myself, because on my blog, I can publish the photos that mean something to me, that have the sort of mood that I like, for instance. And you could shoot two weddings. You could shoot the wedding you like. You could shoot the wedding they like. And, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's just, just make sure that you walk away with your sort of content and deliver their sort of content and then you've done a good job for both of you.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And I did cut you off earlier. So what was another thing that you said that maybe new photographers might be doing to shoot themselves in the foot. Why aren't they, you know, what are some of the mistakes they're making?

Jonas Peterson: Well, that's I could talk about that for days, but I think, I think that, well, one thing I'm pretty sure of is that they're looking at what other wedding photographers are doing in the first place, and even when it comes to business, asking advice. So how should I do this? How many images should I have in a blog post, instead of just asking themselves, what do I think I should do? And you should base your business around who you are and what you want to do, instead of looking at what other people are doing. And I think so many ways, wedding photography is Groundhog Day every Saturday, and people shoot the same story because they've seen other photographers shoot that story. Yes, I'm going to hang the, let's hang the wedding dress from a window, because I've seen other photographers do that, instead of asking themselves, how would I do it? And if I think you walk in with a sense of naivety, then you'll create new content instead of rehashing other people's content.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I think that's a security thing, almost, because it's, you know, it's the shot, you know, you're going to get every time. So they go and do it.

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, and they could do that. I mean, and I'll, I'll let you know that I do the same thing. I mean, I will shoot the dress hanging from the window, maybe, but not necessarily show that on my website. I'm not saying we have to be innovative every second of the day, all the time, because people are hiring us to capture their wedding day. So it's not like we're going in and creating a free show every Saturday with new material that no one has seen but, but it's just something like you said, it's an insecurity thing. And before you take the trading wheels off and try and create your own content, you won't stand out against the competition. And I think that is a mistake that people starting at make, because to be able to be competitive in the market today, you either have to be different, or you have to be better, or you have to be cheaper, and if you're if you're not different or better, then all you have to compete with is price, and then you lose all the time.

Andrew Hellmich: So yeah, yeah, it doesn't leave many options there, does it?

Jonas Peterson: No, not really.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. I have one of the, one of the biggest things that listeners ask is about pricing. They get stuck on setting their own prices. And I know, I mean, you mentioned that a little bit there, but like, where, where should people start? I mean, how do you come up with a price for your packages?

Jonas Peterson: Well, it's difficult again. I think I've seen people who are amazing photographers who charge almost nothing, and I've seen people who are not the best photographers who charge a lot. So how long is a stick or how long is a rope? It's important and impossible to answer, but I think I just set a price that sounded good to me, and which meant I made a goal simply, how much money do I want to make or need to make from wedding photography in a year? And then I made a plan, and then I raised my prices accordingly. Every time I had 10 more bookings, I would raise them again. And I went from my first year, I started at 1950 for my base package, like a shoot and burn package. And then at the end of year one, I was already at $5,000 by raising my prices gradually that whole year.

Andrew Hellmich: So at the second year, did you go then back down to the 1950 start again and go up or a little bit higher? Or, how did that work the second year?

Jonas Peterson: No, I've just reached my prices gradually, ever since..

Andrew Hellmich: They just keep going up.

Jonas Peterson: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, beautiful. Now, let me just ask you a little bit about marketing. So many photographers, I mean, everyone seems to be bombarding Facebook, and I guess blogging on their website is the next, the next biggest thing. So is there any strategies or things that that newer photographers should be looking at?

Jonas Peterson: It's important to be curious and interested in social media and things that people who, who I talk to, who reluctantly do these things, they will always fail, because you could tell when people use social media for business purposes. And one thing I would say is, which is, it's the first time it works like that, but people shouldn't try and do the hard sell on social media, because people don't want to be sold stuff on Facebook and stuff like that. They're there to be entertained for a second or look at content they like. And if you, if you do the hard sell there and then, people will look see through that. And it's sort of a big no to do that today. I think people would prefer that you don't try and sell them stuff with coupons or discounts and stuff on Facebook. It's more sort of show work that's interesting and different and shareable and you'll get business out of that, but don't try and sell them things there.

Andrew Hellmich: So is it okay to promote the business through there, or you really use it just as a, as an interaction?

Jonas Peterson: I think it's, I mean, it's, I'm not saying it's not okay, but I choose to sort of promote it in indirectly, in a way. I will mention that I have workshops and stuff, and that's I mean, I'm trying to get people to sign up for my workshops and that sort of stuff, but, but it's also something I'm aware of, that if I have too much say, sales talk on my even on my Facebook page, I will make sure that I also have that I share my content and just, yeah, share content because of stuff I like and all that. And when I do too much business stuff, I get a bit concerned and try and mix it up with other stuff as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. And do you do? Do you do all your social media stuff yourself, or do you have other people helping you?

Jonas Peterson: No, I do it myself because I enjoy it. I've always enjoyed it. I've always been interested in that sort of stuff. And that's why I started a blog a long time ago, way before most other people did, because I was just interested in seeing, seeing these things. And then I noticed that, I was working in advertising, and after two, three years, the brands sort of caught on. And then, by being in the sort of an early adopter, I already had quite a huge advantage compared to other people, and that's always try and keep it up today. So I'm interested, because I know if I am interested, I will stay ahead of the pack behind me.

Andrew Hellmich: I mean you mentioned, so you meant Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook, Twitter, if someone's not passionate about all the different avenues of social media, should they just stick to one? Or do you have to be everywhere?

Jonas Peterson: No, that's probably right. I think do one thing well, is probably good advice. Don't just spread out. And like I've noticed, for instance, Twitter is something I rarely use, and I might stop using it all together, because it's just, if you're going to do it, do it properly. And I think it's better to do one thing really well than to doing five things haphazardly.

Andrew Hellmich: And do you do everything in your business yourself, or do you have any help at all?

Jonas Peterson: I used to do it all myself, but after a while that became impossible, because I travel so much. Today, 95% of my weddings are either interstate or international. I only did five weddings in Brisbane last year. The rest was overseas or interstate. So when I started doing that, it was became impossible. So I've actually got a full time employee assistant, and she does all my emailing, she books all my tickets, all client interaction pretty much, at least starting out. Once people lock me in, I will step in and, of course, interact with people. But everything that's behind the scenes she does my, a lot of my album designs today, all I do, pretty much is shoot and edit. That's my part of the business.

Andrew Hellmich: And is she based in Brisbane?

Jonas Peterson: Basically, Brisbane, yes, but like I said, yeah, I only did, I want to do five local weddings in the area this year.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, now, let me ask you just briefly about the travel side of things, because, I mean, that's, I think that's a lot of people's dream is to do the destination wedding photography that you do. Is that something that you've targeted on purpose?

Jonas Peterson: Yes, I did it very deliberately my first year. It was something I said to myself, What is a goal of yours? And it was to shoot not all the time, but shoot a little bit internationally. So I actually went searching for the destination weddings and see if I could shoot a few of those. And then also getting my work published internationally was something I was very, very early on tried to do, get on American or European blogs to sort of, to be able to shoot overseas, you need people who are overseas to see your work, is pretty self-explanatory. And I got my work seen in the US and then in Europe, and then got published on national Australian blogs. And by that, people got, saw my work and then asked me to shoot so from doing one destination wedding in 2009, I had 23 the year after that, so it went up very quickly.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow! And how did you get onto these blogs? Was that you sending information to them?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, I did. I actually contacted the blogs the day I started shooting and I didn't have any content, but I wrote them and said, I just introduced myself, do what normal people do at their party, and said, "Hi, my name is and I like your work or your blog, and I don't have anything to submit yet, but I will." And by doing that, they knew who I was, and I created an emotional connection with the people behind the blogs. And once I had work that I liked, and I thought that they were like, I sent it in, and I got published a lot my first year by doing it deliberately.

Andrew Hellmich: Is there any, with the destination side of things, is there any pitfalls that photographers that want to get into it have to look out for?

Jonas Peterson: I would say, what you said, don't shoot for free. A lot of people will take a destination wedding for free or whatever, thinking that it's less work or whatever. I want to go and travel and shoot in Bali. The problem with destination weddings is that it's more work for less money, usually, and so just doing that stuff for free is probably not a good idea, unless you're doing it for with a direct purpose in mind that you will get some more business out of it. So, hard to say, what to keep in mind..

Andrew Hellmich: The how much, how much accommodation do you ask for either side of the wedding day?

Jonas Peterson: Okay, that's good question. I asked for at least four nights’ accommodation, so two days before and two days after, also four days in total. If I go to Bali, for instance, if I go somewhere really far away, I would maybe even ask for or I would ask or tell them that I want to stay for maybe 5, 5-6, days, but then I will pay for it myself. So four days, my clients pay for accommodation, and I tell them it's can be jet lag, could be those sort of issues. And it's also for me to do location scouting and all that stuff. So at least four nights generally, when I do destination weddings.

Andrew Hellmich: And do you take the same camera kit with you when you're shooting destination as you do if you're shooting a wedding in Brisbane?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, I do. I, since I shoot solo for maybe 98% of my weddings, my whole shooting style and my equipment and everything has been adapted to the fact that I do shoot solo. So I travel with the same bag everywhere I go, whether it's in in Brisbane, or if I go to the US or Europe or whatever.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so I can imagine you don't have a lot of backup gear then?

Jonas Peterson: I have two bodies, six lenses, two flashes that's it.

Andrew Hellmich: That's a fair bit. That's enough. That's great. Jonas, are you ready to tackle these 10 quick questions?

Jonas Peterson: Sure. No problem.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, here we go. 10 quick questions. 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, go! Canon or Nikon?

Jonas Peterson: I should say I'm sponsored by Canon, so definitely Canon.

Andrew Hellmich: You get all the new gear as it comes out.

Jonas Peterson: It's just happened, so it's a very new thing. But I'm one of Canon, and they call them Canon Masters. So there's 12 in Australia and in New Zealand. So I'm a Canon man, a 100%.

Andrew Hellmich: Very good. Well, okay, then what's your favorite lens and why?

Jonas Peterson: It changes. For a while, it was the 35L, so the 35 1.4L, it's a magic lens that you could use for everything from photojournalism to portraits, I think. So I like to, I prefer to shoot normal lenses, so either that or the 50 L, which the 50 1.2L, I could shoot with that all day, probably, if I had to.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Do you shoot with a tilt shift a lot of the time as well?

Jonas Peterson: I have a tilt shift. I've shot with it. Sometimes I shoot with it a lot. It's a 45 millimeter tilt shift from Canon. Sometimes I use it a lot, and then I get bored of it, and then I don't use it for a while, and then I use it again for a while. So it's something I use just to mix up my coverage a bit. If I feel like I've covered something a certain way, then I will pop that lens on and cover it differently and just have an alternative.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you shoot JPEG or RAW?

Jonas Peterson: I shoot full RAW. I would like maybe to shoot JPEG, but I shoot full RAW. So, yeah, my editing is very light, though, so it doesn't really matter for me whether I should RAW or JPEG. It's just for safety to have to have it there, I guess because I expose the way I see it in camera as well. So I don't really use the benefits of it all. Some people expose the stop darker and then lift it in post and that sort of thing to keep the highlights. But I pretty much shoot the way I want it to look. So yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Have you faced any setbacks along the way?

Jonas Peterson: Not really that it's been a very straight sort of road for me. Every year has gone better than the year before, but I will say that I shot 65 weddings in 2010 and that nearly burned me out at least, at least creatively so after that, I did the step back. And now I'm very, very conscious about shooting anything more than 50. So if I have to be, a very, very, very good reason, or a very, very, very good wedding for me to book anything above 50.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So if you're doing 50, is that one every weekend, or you doing two or three one weekend and none for a couple?

Jonas Peterson: I try and shoot less double headers, so two a weekend, but I have, I will limit it to two now, but since I travel so much, it's very difficult as well, because I need to be in that city. I never take an interstate booking if I shoot in Victoria one on a Saturday, I would never shoot anywhere else than Victoria the day after, because there's too many risks involved with flying and stuff. But by saying that, I have done nine weddings in a month in, when it's big season, November, for instance.

Andrew Hellmich: So let me ask you if you were going into a new areas, an area that you've never shot in, but you want to shoot there. It could be a city or a country. What would you do to kick things off there?

Jonas Peterson: I do what I did the other day, actually. On my Facebook business page, I wrote saying, I travel a lot, but here are some places I would love to shoot in. And I said, I would love, love, love to shoot in Argentina, Cuba, India and mentioned some places. By doing that, I mean, I do have a large following, but just putting it out there and letting other people spread the word. "He wants to shoot there." It took me one day, and I got an email back saying, "Hi, my name is so and so, I'm a photographer based on the Gold Coast and but I happen to get married in Argentina. Would you like to shoot it?"

Andrew Hellmich: Nice! So you just got to ask.

Jonas Peterson: Yes, I think so. A lot of the time, that's true for a lot of things in business, a lot of people, there's too much pride. Ask the photographer you like, if you can second shoot for them, what's the worst thing that can happen? They will say no. But a lot of people just walk around and assume that their heroes are unapproachable, or whatever. Or you ask a local photographer in a town somewhere, and can I come a second shoot for you, and then you get the ball rolling, or whatever it is, and be smart about it, just yeah. But like I said, yeah, ask the question, see what happens.

Jonas Peterson: Yeah. I think that's so true, and that has come up a couple of times on the podcast. And I've got to tell you, I was scared asking the first couple of photographers when I kick this thing off and..

Jonas Peterson: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. What's the worst that can happen? They can say 'no.'

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: Not so bad.

Jonas Peterson: Should I add a disclaimer, if you ask me, I will probably say no. So don't start writing me emails now coming up, "Can I come a second shoot for you?" Because I turn all those down, unfortunately.

Jonas Peterson: Sure, and that's pretty much what every photographer that comes on this show says as well.

Jonas Peterson: It's just something that is difficult. I mean, you know, it's just difficult to get someone on that you don't know anything about and don't know their work, if you're, so it's, that's generally why I turn it down. The people who shoot with me, I know 100% and I know they work and all that stuff. So for me, that's more important.

Andrew Hellmich: Now I normally ask photographers, if they watch what other photographers are doing, and you told me you didn't, but you've got good mates. They're photographers like you said, Todd Hunter McGaw and Dan O'Day, guys like that. Do you look at their work?

Jonas Peterson: They will probably hate me, but I don't. I look at single images. I follow them on Facebook and stuff, but I don't go actively to their blogs and look at their weddings unless they will directly tell me, "Can you go and have a look at this?" I won't do it. I just prefer to not get inspired by what other people are doing. I don't want to see where the trends are going even because if I do that, I would feel like I'm following suit, and I'd rather sort of create my own path. If that makes sense

Andrew Hellmich: I love that confidence. Is that something you were born with that confidence to just to ignore everything else and just do what you're doing?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, well, it is, and it is. I have a pretty decent self-confidence, but not that I'm better than anyone else. I don't think I'm better than anyone else, but I believe that I can do anything in life, and I've sort of tried to prove it to myself over and over again. My background is like that. I've always sort of, "This is what I want to do, and now that's going to happen, and I'm just going to make it happen and try and stop me." And that's sort of an attitude has helped me throughout life. Never think that I'm better than anyone else, but if you tell me that I can't be a ski instructor, I'll tell you that's the wrong, I will be a ski instructor. I'll just have to ski first.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. So, so in your workshops, would you tell an up and coming photographer to stop looking at everyone else and just trust yourself?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, I just did yesterday. That's part of what my workshop is. But I say to them that you should still look at photography. I mean, we are photographers, and if you ask a writer, how you become a better writer. You read books. So you should still look at photography and art and all that sort of stuff, but maybe stay away from wedding photography. I think there's so much else you can feed your brain with and yeah, and if you, if you do, look at wedding photographers, because I know some people still prefer to do that, look at a lot of them. Don't just copy one person, because that will be very obvious very quickly.

Andrew Hellmich: Uh-huh. Well, don't you think that's a problem then with, you know, these plugins like Visco and things like that, where it puts everyone into that same box?

Jonas Peterson: Yeah, well, it is a problem, but it's also an opportunity, because if everyone edits the same way, then your images must stand out some other way. And I think that I'm almost like that, because if everyone has the same Photoshop action, then your images must tell a better story. And that is something that I try and focus on quite a bit.

Andrew Hellmich: True. What do you wear when you're shooting weddings?

Jonas Peterson: Various I would say. But I've been wearing sort of black, not suit pants and not jeans, but something, something almost in between. So it's sort of a denim, black denim like material, but it's more look like suit pants. And then I have a shirt, generally, not a tie, but a nice, nice shirt. And that's black pants and some sort of shirt blue or yeah, whatever.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, what's an embarrassing photography moment or stuff up that you're happy to share?

Jonas Peterson: I shot a very high-end wedding in Mexico once. The family a very, as a big Hollywood producer's daughter, and I was very keen just to nail everything and to serve everyone and to make everyone happy. And I set up the family formals, and I put the entire family in a nest of fire ants. Was not what they wanted out of their day. I can tell you that.

Andrew Hellmich: What did you do?

Jonas Peterson: Apologized, of course, profusely, and then moved in, but I think the damage was already done. So those family, family formals look less than fun. I can tell you that.

Andrew Hellmich: No good, Jonas, it's been really great chatting to you. How can people check out your work and see what you're doing, even though you're advising them not to.

Jonas Peterson: No, no, they should look at my work. But no one else's. My website is Jonaspeterson.com but you'll probably find me more on my Facebook business page than on my blog. But if you haven't seen my work, by all means, check out my website. But apart from that, just maybe follow me on my Facebook business page.

Andrew Hellmich: I'll add links to that in the show notes, and I just, I'm looking at your business page right now, and it's what's this framed network?

Jonas Peterson: It is a, it's actually an online, it's hard to, it's not a, video podcast sort of show. So it's actually an online TV show. And I've just come from Las Vegas in March, where we recorded 10 episodes. It's a photography show called Film. It was shot all on, we were four photographers in the house, and we shot on film, and we created 10 episodes, different challenges, different things. And yeah, I hosted that show together with three other photographers.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that up and up and running right now? Or your video is not there yet?

Jonas Peterson: It's not there yet. It's gonna air, the first show is the 23rd of August. But there's also other things. They have a show every day, and I'm in one of the shows, so there will also be six other shows that will run on other days.

Andrew Hellmich: Great. I'll put links to that so people can check that out as well. Jonas, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for your time.

Jonas Peterson: My pleasure.

 
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