This episode is a little different from the ordinary, which won't be difficult to miss as soon as we kick things off and the topic of conversation turns to shaved legs and nude podcasting. Why the big difference from the usual? Two reasons; Brian is a good mate of mine and this interview is in person, not via Skype like usual.
The other thing that differs a little with this interview is Brian's candidness when it comes to his figures, how his business works and his candid approach to answering my questions. Yes, every one of my guests have been totally open in the past but I have possibly “eased off” with some of the tougher questions.
Brian picked me up on this fact, and others, after subscribing to the podcast himself. It was he that challenged me, welcomed even, the hard questions. Nothing was off limits, he simply said…. ask away.
Here's some of what we cover in the interview:
What is your big takeaway?
This week, the big takeaway segment also took a turn from the usual tracks in that it kicks off with an apology… to Brian. After attempting to generate some discussion in the comments area of the show notes after each episode I felt as though I had dropped Brian in the deep-end of the pool when I talked about a conversation we had about my interview with Dean Dampney in episode 19 of the podcast.
In hindsight, it was totally unfair to use my chat with Brian as an example as it pretty much painted him as the “baddy” before you have had a chance to get to know him.
If you have a point of view following any interview you hear and especially if you disagree with something that was said, feel free to voice your opinion in the comments section. As long as your comments aren't personal or attacking, I have no problem with a healthy considered discussion, in fact I think it would be hugely beneficial.
iTunes ratings and reviews target
I may have messed up the pronunciation of my sole iTunes rating and review this week but my appreciation is 100% genuine. Thanks “Methre” for your kind words and it's great to read you're enjoying the podcast.
If you'd like to leave a review, simply click here and follow the directions in the “review” tab in iTunes.
After receiving a few emails this week, there were a few more shout outs.
David Rook of www.davidrookphotographer.com – it's been great chatting and thanks for your iTunes review.
Wesley Smith of www.wesleysmithphotography.com – thanks for getting in touch and for the great topic suggestion on Facebook Graph Search and photographer. Wishing you success in your transition to full time photography when you take the plunge.
Steve Holloway – sorry mate, I don't have a website address for you but thanks for your recent iTunes review and for getting in touch. All the best with your “Fusion” packages if you decide to introduce them to your clients.
Lisa Huelin of www.lisahuelin.com.au – thanks for the great suggestions of photographers you'd like to hear interviewed on the podcast. Great to have you listening and love your work!
Lastly, I saw a very cool tweet from David Campbell of www.davidcampbellimagery.com who tweeted:
| David Campbell (@DCimagery_) | |
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Listening to the latest PhotoBizXposed podcast by @andrewhellmich in the middle of nowhere in Iceland
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Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode:
Brian, Kaylene and their fantastic staff at Family Image Photography.
Baby Image Photography
Family Image Photography on Facebook
The Business of Photography – 3 day workshop with Brian and Kaylene
ProSelect – the BEST portrait sales software
Stitcher Radio – a great way to subscribe to the Photo Biz Xposed podcast and many others
That's it for me this week, have a great one and leave a comment below to let me know what you took away from this interview.
Speak soon
Andrew
Hi Andrew,
I very much enjoyed your interview with Brian Chapman. His insights were just spot-on. My big take away was him not offering his high-res digital files. After today, I no longer will either. Only low-res from here on out.
The only thing I would say is that it all depends on the place you live AND how good your photography skills are to be able to charge anywhere near Brian’s prices.
But I agree, you have to be different and stand out. The whole Purple Cow theory.
Thanks again,
Joey Joiner
Fort Worth, Texas USA
HI there Joey, Thanks for jumping in and leaving your comments. Wow I’m impressed you are going to go for it and not sell digital files. It takes courage to do it, as you will have people saying it just wont work in this ‘digital age’.
Take pride in your work and let your customers know that you really do care about what they are hiring you for and that you wont leave them with an amateur looking print.
You may not have the same prices as us, but be sure to keep pushing yourself to increase them to ensure that you are actually making a decent income from all the hard work. As long as you consistently produce a good job, and are upfront with your prices, then people will pay what you set the price to be. But you have to believe in what you do too.
Thanks for writing.
Brian Chapman.
So thrilled that you replied to my comment, Brian. I feel honored. Definitely agree that I have to believe in what I do. Because I know if I don’t believe in myself, no one else will either.
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to help us photographers out there. It is sincerely appreciated.
Joey Joiner
Hey Joey – massive call with no longer offering your digital files after this interview. Love your commitment! Please let us know how it goes and what the response is like from your clients. Everyone will be interested.
Hi
I had a different feeling about this podcast that left me scratching my head a little bit. I am all for people making money from something they love but I was taken back a little by some of Brian’s comments, one in particular stood out, Brian mentioned that they earn 550 odd thousand last year and his goal was to get to a million, brilliant no problem here but then he went on to say that if other photographers wish to earn “small” amount of only 200 thousand a year. I don’t think that 200 grand a year is “small” amount, im sure Brian didn’t mean to diss the photographers earning these amounts and are happy at doing so, but maybe choice of words could have been a little better.
It was still a great interview by Andrew and also the thing I took from this was more that Andrew puts the date on the photos that reminds people when they were taken, I think this is something I am going to do in the future.
thanks
Hi Paul,
Thanks for being bold and bringing that point up. I actually meant the opposite to how it may have come across as I was candidly talking about the numbers and what our goals are.
Two Hundred thousand turnover is a great business!
What I meant was that other photographers look at our business now and see it as doing really well with a 500K turnover, which compared to 100K or 200K it is, but because my goal is 1 million, 500K is only half way and I have more work to do.
I certainly don’t want to be dissing anyone turning over 200K. That is fantastic!
I guess it is an example of benchmarking as I talked about in the interview. Because I know it is possible to reach for higher level, it gives me the courage to keep going until we get there.
I do appreciate you writing this comment though as others may have felt I meant that too which definitely wasn’t what I was trying to say.
Hopefully my explanation makes more sense than my words on the podcast (sorry Andrew)
🙂
kind regards
Brian Chapman
Hi Paul – thanks so much for adding your views on the interview and having the courage to voice them here. I think it would be totally unreasonable for every listener to agree with what every guest has to say and it’s good to see some discussion going.
It’s equally great to see you Brian, in here commenting and explaining your point of view. I have no problem if what you’re saying is made more clear in writing as opposed to the audio. Thanks again for coming on the show!
hi
thanks for the response and clarification, maybe it was the way it was said, it seem to come across a little different thats all and hey I believe in saying whats on my mind, maybe I should have emailed instead but I guess this is what this forum is about – thanks again Brian i did enjoy it don’t get me wrong and take things from it, might be a bit hard going though to educate all photographers to retain their images, all the best and thanks again to you also Andrew.
pp
Hi Paul,
Thanks for speaking your mind and accepting my explanation.
Its fine for you to put it out there in the comments. Id much rather you speak up than dwell on that thought quietly to yourself. 🙂
I should have used some better words, but I guess that is part of a ‘live’ non scripted interview. 🙂
Feel free to speak up on any other points I made that you may not have agreed with. Discussion is good.
kind regards
Brian Chapman
I really enjoyed listening to this podcast & found Brian’s story inspiring. It was really good to hear the run down of how things progressed with Brian’s business as they made the big changes & showed that dreams can come true by putting in the work & research. Also his emphasis on the final product as being the whole service was great to hear & I am moving towards doing business with the finished item in mind rather than just doing digital as is demanded, so will educate clients to focus on the end.
Thanks for putting this information out there for other photographers to learn.
Hi Kaylene, love that you enjoyed this episode of the podcast and thanks for adding your comments. Make sure you stop by again and update us on how you go with any changes you implement as a result of what Brian had to share.
One thing is for sure – Brian has worked extremely hard and for a long time to be in the position he is. I can imagine there was plenty of stress and worry along the way too.
Thanks Kaylene for your encouraging comments. Much appreciated.
It has been a big journey for us over the years and there has been many times where it all seemed too much. But that is when we need to step back and look at how far we have come rather than just get too focussed on the day to day challenges.
On the weekend we visited the first house (my) Kaylene and I lived in. It was a fibro shack. We were young and newly married and looking back on it now, I cant believe we lived there. We made a lot of mistakes along the way, but 15 years later we had built a business that allowed us to purchase a beautiful acreage property in NorthWest Sydney, something that we had always dreamed of.
I am thankful for being a photographer and being able to really enjoy what we do and spread joy into people lives.
I also love to see other creative people succeed financially. To have a gift, a creative mind, is a wonderful thing and should allow you to earn a great income and lifestyle if you choose to work smarter and not just harder.
Thanks for writing Kaylene.
kind regards
Brian Chapman
p.s. Here is a link to ‘Our Story’ – a little film we created talking about how our garden studio came about.
http://www.familyphotographersydney.com.au/our-story.html
Hi Andrew, I have just subscribed to your podcast and will enjoy having them on my iPhone when out driving. This was a great interview with Brian, you can tell he is very passionate about what he does and I love that he is all about helping photographers thrive in their business. My biggest take-away is that you have to differentiate yourself from your competitors if you want to be able to charge a higher rate. It is something I continually need to be reminded of. I also like the point about showing and selling finished products. I will definitely add some more shots of products on our website, especially of our albums.
One thing though, I’ve heard Jerry say he sells digital files. However, he only does so after the client spends a certain amount of money with him. Probably well above $10k.. Yervant did a similar thing (a while since I heard him say this at a workshop) where he sells digital files one year after the wedding. The couple would have already bought an album and most of the prints they wanted for themselves and family.
Hi Anders,
Thanks for your kind words.
Yes differentiation is probably the biggest key particularly in small business. What is your USP – Your Unique Selling Point, that makes you different to your competitors.
It needs to be strong enough that other factors like price/location/digital files etc come in second place rather than being the deciding factor. (Unless of course you are making one those things your USP)
hint: you cant make selling digital files your USP as ‘everyone’ is already doing that!
Thanks for letting us know about Jerry and Yervant. The key difference of what they are doing compared with many wedding photographers is that the digital files (the negatives) are not the cheapest option, they are the add on sale only after you have purchased what they want you to buy.
This is how it used to be with negatives.
Back then, photographers could have just sold the negatives, but they didn’t. They kept them in the back room and treated them as precious. Usually only selling them a year or more after the wedding as a way to get an extra add on sale.
Their focus was to get quality prints and albums done and happy customers who could hold something tangible in their hands for all the money they were paying.
Thanks for leaving a comment and listening to the podcasts. There is so much great content that Andrew has done a great job at pulling together.
Brian
Hi Andrew,
I’ve been meaning to send you my feedback and gratitude for a while, but haven’t had the chance. There are the lazy moments, the busy moments and the “I’ll do it later” moments. This is the THANK YOU moment! I’ve been listening to ALL your podcasts since episode one and I’m gaining a great deal of insights into the various aspects of running a photography business, getting inspiration, confidence and most certainly ideas. Keep up the good work. I’m a grateful listener who appreciate every bit of your effort to put things together for us.
May you reap the reward of you good work.
Thanks.
-= Moussa =-
Hi Moussa – thanks for adding your comments and I love that you’re getting something from the interviews!
Thanks also for the well wishes.
Great to have you listening and stop by anytime to add your comments or feedback.
Speak soon
Andrew
Great interview. Firstly I think its worth mentioning Brian if you get sick of Photography you definitely have a career in relaxation audio tapes! You have a very calming, relaxing voice.
Lots of great information and brave steps to take from your Podcast. I love your clarity on the digital files aspect of photography, but to me it is still a bit murky. You are now unique as you don’t sell the digital files, but I think the reason why people have resorted to selling the digital file is because that was once “unique”, people saw those people make money out of it and therefore more people started doing it and now it has almost become a progression into the modern era of photography.
To some degree it’s like keeping up with the times. Although it works for you, I think that has more to do with the unique product you sell and what people are in the market to buy. You can only sell to those who are in the market to buy a particular product.
Having said that if I detach myself from being a photographer and look at what I would want as a consumer, if I was having a family portrait shoot I would never consider buying digital files. I would only have a portrait shoot to have photos on my wall. And this is because I am freely making the choice to go and have photos taken, I don’t have to have them, if I can’t afford it I wont have them. It’s a conscious decision I am making.
The problem for wedding photographers is that a couple getting married feels like they HAVE to have photos, its part of the the day of which they already HAVE to have flowers, cars, reception, dresses, suits, etc,etc. So if they can get the photos they want in a less expensive format and can have some control over how many they get what they are going to do with them (and they know they can design an album online the way they want it to look and they prob don’t care that it doesn’t look as great as the ones in the photographers studio) etc they will take it because wedding photos are just another part of an event, it’s not really a free and conscious decision they are making at a time of their choice.
So I feel, if you are in the industry of wedding photography, digital files have become almost another album to offer. The digital era is upon us and I am sure if a builder can have plans online in a virtual manner he will take them over confusing one dimensional paper ones. A fashion designer would rather a 3d image to show a customer rather than a paper cutting of a pattern. Unfortunately our product is the paper version.
I understand your dislike of the digital file, especially as you are an established photographer from the days of film and I understand that a digital file will never be equal to a print, but from a business point of view and looking to the future, where we are only going to become more digital and online I think it is a very brave step to not consider selling the digital files. But perhaps I am only justifying my lack of confidence not to sell them?? I guess you can see the murkiness I was referring to now.
To make my point of view even more confusing I think one of the things you said was how an actual photo evokes not only emotions but memories every time you look at it and you are absolutely correct when you say you do not get that from a digital file. Which is why I would never consider a digital file for a family portrait shoot.
Anyway I am sure I have just contradicted myself several times, but I loved hearing how your business operates and is successful because you believe in it.
Great podcast.
HI Aleisha,
A big thank you for expressing your thoughts in words.
(thoughts in your head are like digital files which are mixed up with the thousands of other thoughts… whereas when you express it in words it is like a photographic print that others can appreciate)
Yes we are in a digital age but humans have not changed very much still. They still like to touch and hold things. They still want to feel good about themselves, to feel special, to buy things that make them feel good. (not just in the short term by buying a disk, but in the long term when they look at their wedding album and turn its pages remembering that special day)
With your examples of the other vendors…..If the couple approached the wedding car company and said… we just want the cars and will provide our own driver… How much would that be?
It should be much cheaper without the driver of the limo. After all everybody knows how to drive. Its not that hard, its only a 15minute trip!
Or approaching the florist and saying… I have lots of flowers in my garden, if I give you the flowers and you can just arrange them, how much would that cost… or ‘with the bridesmaids Ill get you (the florist) to do the first bouquet and then I just want the flowers loose and Ill copy what you did and do the others myself.
It sound ludicrous, but so did selling your wedding client the files before trying to sell them an album 5 years ago!
Or what if we applied it to the videographers and a bride said ‘we want all the footage of the day and we will edit it ourselves.’
If you know anything about video, most of the footage of the day is a bit useless. It is not until it has been creatively edited together to tell a magical story does it have any value.
Imagine if they edited it themselves and then said ‘Abraham Joffe did our wedding film’
If we refer to art (paintings). A professional artist would never sign their name on a painting they were not happy with would they? That is their reputation right there which has taken years to develop.
You’re right, photographers used to have ‘I give you the files’ as their Unique Selling Point (USP) and then lots of others did the ‘me to’ approach. The problem with that is it is not actually unique. It is an easily copied USP.
As boutique businesses, we can only do a certain amount of shoots a year and get through the workflow and client appointments. So every one of those jobs has to count and bring in the highest amount of money possible. Unless you’re desperate for work, it doesn’t make sense to work on a Saturday shooting a wedding for a lower profit than what you would earn with a client who wants an album.
From what I have seen, the most successful studios still today are those that focus on selling product and not digital files.
Im hearing lots of wedding photographers complaining that they cant get bookings, that the industry has gone downhill and so on and these are photographers who ARE selling digital packages.
The problem is that they are back to competing on price because nothing else about them stands out enough to warrant a couple saying ‘ I want them for my wedding no matter what’.
Our Boudoir Photography – if ever there was a demand for digital files… boudoir is it!!
But we have developed a style that is different to our competitors, so much so that ladies will happily give up the need for getting digital files and even fly in from other states of Australia to come to us. We are 1 hours drive from the airport so they have to hire a car when they get to Sydney to come here.
There are other boudoir photographers in the states where they live, but each of them said they liked what we do so much that they are willing to travel to us.
A comment we hear often (when talking about coming to us, paying out prices, prints, makeup etc). If Im going to do this I may as well do it well!
Now that same phrase should apply to Wedding Photography just as much.
Wedding Photographers need to get back to basics and not be wrapped up in the hype of the digital age.
They need to be out there promoting themselves. Working out what makes them unique and letting everybody know.
They need to market themselves across a number of different methods and not put all their focus into facebook and blog (like everyone else is doing).
They need to take pride in their work and only sell something they are proud to have their name attached to.
If they are going to enter print competitions they need to do it for the purposes of marketing to their clients about how amazing they are .. rather than doing it for themselves because they are feeling insecure about whether they are good enough.
They need to give great customer service, care about each client and show a genuine interest in who they are and how special their wedding day is going to be.
They need to look for opportunities to market themselves all the time, including going to the reception which is an important part of the wedding and putting up a same day slideshow and showing how good the photos are. (rather than saying… receptions are so boring)
They need to form relationships with Vendors, send them photos they have taken on the day. Make them up a simple album they can use to show couples what their product looks like at a real wedding. Let them rave about you!
They need to show products on their websites…. not just retouched images. Photographers have no excuse to not have great photos of their finished albums.
Instead they want to just put up the latest retouched image to get ‘likes’ to make them feel better about themselves…. (I am guilty of this too!)
They need to recognise that designing a good album is an art! It is not easy to do well. They need to let clients know what goes into good album design by talking passionately about the story they have created.
Yes Im quite passionate about this and being very direct, because that kind of honesty is what it takes in this current market. Being a professional photographer is not an easy way to make money, as many have thought. But it can be a reputable and rewarding one if you are prepared to really go for it.
Hopefully you read all that in my ‘calm relaxing voice’ 😉
Thanks Aleisha.
Kind regards
Brian Chapman
http://www.familyimage.com.au
http://www.boudoirimage.com.au
http://www.thebusinessofphotography.com.au
Oh man, I’m so glad Brian stopped by to respond Aleisha, I wasn’t sure where to start 😉
Thanks for adding your thoughts and comments – it’s great to see the interview has you thinking and planning.
The hard part now is putting it into action.
Great to have you listening.
I am glad you replied Brian. I was hoping you were not thinking I was being critical and from your response and I can gauge you didn’t (I hope).
I get it! I really do And I agree with you on how important it is to actually get a print out there. I feel like there is a degree of “tackiness” attached to digital files, even if you are an Andrew Hellmich (who I admire very much). Being unique is 100% the answer. Which is SOOO much harder than it sounds really. I know with me, I put all my energy into finding a new idea and then by the time I have the guts to execute it someone else has started doing it and is thriving.
If I make it to your workshop I will introduce myself and let you know if I was as brave as you!
Thanks again for your relaxing, business wisdom!
Aleisha Hey
Hi Aleisha – you should definitely run with your idea! Don’t worry that someone else is doing it, they won’t be able to do things the same way you do, no one can. Just start, that’s the hard part – once you have that first shoot done, sell it, book the next and you’re away. Just start 🙂
And thank you for the kind words.
P.S If you can make Brian’s workshop, you will never regret it – he has a ton of stuff to share and teach.
[…] interesting thing, something that Brian (Chapman) said and that was about giving the client the prints instead of a disc and leaving them to get […]
[…] Brian Chapman interview […]
Hi Brian/Andrew,
I listened to this podcast a few months ago and back then I was really impressed with what Brian had to say. At the time I was flat chat and even though I had some ‘take home’ actions, as Andrew likes to call them, I was not in the position to implement them. One thing I needed to do was listen to the interview again. Second time around I was equally impressed. Brian I could listen to you all day. Like Aleisha commented above your voice is so soothing and you make a heap of sense. However, after checking your website I notice you now offer the digital files. Plus you make the note that clients can now “print your own photos”. So what has changed in the 6 months since this original recording?
In the interview I really liked your rationale on why you don’t give out the digital files: stating that by doing so the job is only half done. I truly believe this myself. So you can imagine my surprise when I read this on your site and now you don’t mind customers printing their own images. Would love you to clarify this point.
Great interview once again Andrew. Keep up the good work.
Cheers
Warren
HI Warren,
Thanks for taking the time to listen to the interview again and also for checking out our website. I was wondering how long it would be till someone noticed about the digital files.
My feelings toward them still stand and I do feel bad selling them, but we reached a point in October where our bookings really dropped off and we should have been getting strong bookings leading up to Christmas.
Every second enquiry was asking for digital files and we were saying no to them and losing a client.
(I also checked around with a few other established studios to see how they were going, and their bookings were also really low for those months, so it wasnt just us)
So I made the big decision to add them to our price list as an option to try and increase the level of bookings. We also reduced our smaller print prices and added bonuses for the wall portraits to be more competitive.
Most of the enquiries we get for digital files now are really just price shopping though and dont go ahead with booking us. (probably a good thing)
I would still prefer to not be selling them at all, and basically I talk them down to clients letting them know the quality wont be as good when printing at a department store , but if it gets us a booking over not having one, I had to make that change so I could keep paying the bills.
In the end we had plenty of bookings in December and we had a couple of clients only who purchase file options.
Most of them were happy buying finished wall portraits and knowing the quality would be great.
I dont sell them cheaply though. I did the math and worked out what I need to charge for the files based on an average client order, to get to a sales figures that is close to our average. ie. I didnt want to be doing a shoot and selling files and earning less money.
Will we continue to sell files? Probably at this stage, unless we get plenty of bookings coming through again and can afford to turn jobs away. But getting bookings has become harder for us, probably due to so many competitors in our area charging very little. (and all selling images on a disk)
Im writing this reply after a long day of packing up our office to move it to our Dural studio, so I hope I have made sense. 🙂
So to sum up, I still want to sell finished prints as I believe that is the quality product that the client will get the most enjoyment from. But if they do want to buy files, the option is there, but I always talk up the benefits of getting prints done professionally with us as the preferred option. (Once they buy the file, they can purchase prints from us at 50% off as an incentive to get them done properly)
Thanks Warren.
kind regards
Brian Chapman
Hi Brian
Thank you for the detailed response. I fully understand your position and I like the way you have come up with a balanced compromise.
Take care and good luck in 2014.
Regards
Warren
Hi Andrew,
Yet another great podcast. Not sure I could sell print only in my line of business but am thinking about getting a projector now!
Thanks Rahim – a projector can really help with in person sales and Brian has a fantastic business model, one worth following or learning from for sure!
If you aren’t selling prints, be sure to price your digital files where you can be profitable enough to survive and do well with your photography.
Just want to thanks you again Rahim Mastafa for sharing this page with us in the FB group it is totally go to be helping me for years to come.
Joe
I have a quick question well just one for now. For Brian. How many images do you take a a family shoot? Also then with the pricing your saying the average is $2500 . that is just a few images right ? Like they by 8-10 images from the shoot and then maybe the slide show and they are done?
I will add the the pricing in the US is for sure lower but the price for most every thing in Australia is higher almost double the price it not more then the price of the same products here in the US I know that the wages that most make are almost double then that of what we make here. I just wanted to point that out to the folks that might be hearing this pod cast and thinking WOW $150 for a 8×12 I could never get that much. I don’t think we could get that much here.
I have for sure had some bells go off in my head. I have been listing to an interview or tow per day all week. My head hurts, in a good way. But many ideas have been planted and are starting to spawn in to ideas of there own. I love the slide show idea and will for sure be offering that as a option. I was also thinking I would still offer the CD for weddings but charge a bit for it and offer a print book with the option to save on the CD with you buy both. That why it adds to the total package cast after the shoot has been paid for and all this info would be shared before the booking.
I love that you built the sets you shoot on I have wanted to do that also. To not have to travel and know what the light will be like at a giving time of the day. I live on 34 arches of land and could go crazy. Build it and they will come. Just need to build my name up a bit.
Great podcast I will for sure be listen to this one again. Thanks to you both once again.
Hi Joe,
It does sound like your brain is buzzing with lots of info. Take care not to get overloaded and not be able to put it into action.
An average sale would be about 10-14 prints usually. Ranging from some wall size portraits (16 x 24 and 20 x 30) plus some series 3 @ 6 x 9in and some shelf size 5 x 7s.
Our prices are on our website.
By the way $150 for a 8 x 12in print is at the higher end in Sydney Australia too. There are plenty doing them at $60 or less.
The median wage in Sydney is $65,000 if that gives you a reference.
But home prices are very high. A typical good family suburb in Sydney near us is around $750K for a new home.
Hope that helps. 🙂
Brian Chapman
Thanks Brian for the follow up and great question Joe.
Just letting everyone know we have a new workshop announced on our website for photographers in Sydney (or those visiting)
It is a full day on Sales and how we achieve a genuine average of $2800 for our 90 minute photo sessions.
All without being pushy and instead giving clients a wonderful friendly experience that has them smiling even when they pay the bill.
http://www.thebusinessofphotography.com.au has all the details
Monday April 7th 10 am till 6pm.
Hope to see some of you there.
Brian
[…] the premium membership content and some thoughts on the podcast so far. I interviewed Brian for the Photo Biz Xposed podcast in episode 21 where he talks about how you can achieve $2500 plus sales fro every family portrait shoot, just […]
Hi.
Like Warren, I was surprised to see digital files being sold on the website BUT all business’ must evolve so I don’t have a problem with this.
Like any product, digital or not, the sales process will maximise what customer purchases. If the customer looks at their files in the viewing room surrounded by prints and, as Brian said, follows the system of discussing pricing before showing the images, the chances of selling a print are greater than not sticking to the system. Yes, a customer may not want to talk about print pricing but if you can get them to this stage, the chances of moving forward and selling prints are greater.
There’s always challenges and it’s how we deal with those challenges determins the success of a business.
Cheers
Shane
Hey Shane – interestingly, Brian says that offering the digital files hasn’t affected his print sales and that’s what he continues to focus on. I’m part of a group where Brian talks about his sales figures and they continue to blow me away. He is definitely in a position to be teaching photography sales with his track record.
Love what you say in your last paragraph… so true.
Okay. Well….wow. I listened to this whole interview and felt empowered to move ahead in my new business model, where you know Andrew that I have decided to inject my personality and who I am into it. Along with this is coming everything being revamped, to the pricing, structure, just everything I do. So when listening I was like “Hey that is a great idea, but how does he continue to book SO MANY people because I know that people around here would NEVER come to someone that flat our said no to the digitals” but he was SO confident, he even said something like “if you sell the digitals then you aren’t even valuing your own work. or something along those lines, I mean he was like REALLY REALLY standing behind it.
THEN I come and read the comments and he is NOW selling them! It would seem from his response it was nothing more than out of desperation. So I would ask why not up the marketing and ways he presents his business opposed to compromising his very strong convictions he presented in this podcast?
I dont understand. Can I ask that you check into having him come BACK on this show and do another interview and explain how, why, and his process of selling them like what he charges and such? I am so bummed to read the comments. I was thinking “I can do that, and just offer low res. files for fb and such and that will help me stand out more’ THEN seeing he sells them completely voids everything I learned. 🙁
I was going to write a comment about how this was literally the BEST interview and my favorite and most informative and inspriational guest Ive ever heard, his passion and his convictions and the way he stood behind them were so inspiring. Im just upset to read that he recanted just because he wasnt getting bookings.
Is there a way or a time he might be able to come back to the show?
Hi Tara – Brian has just returned from an overseas holiday and is madly catching up with work. I’ll definitely have him back on the show to talk more about his changes. I do know that his sales are as high as ever and few, if any clients are taking the high res files option with Brian.
He is still all about selling wall art but having the digital files as an option means he at least has a chance to start a dialogue with potential clients that think they might want the files.
Hopefully we can hear more from Brian himself in an upcoming episode.
Wow!
I really needed to hear this from Brian, Thank you! As a fairly new photographer and business owner we are not taught or shown on how to both market ourselves and how to charge to profitable to the client and ourselves.
I feel I have been doing my clients a dis service by giving them the digital files and not a finished product. I know for myself, i take photos of the kids and they sit on a hard drive, I am in the process of getting albums made up of different holidays. I think it comes to the fore front when recently we lost a personal hard drive consisting of 6 years of travel around Europe. ( I obviously back up client images ) We did a family shoot with a photographer friend of mine and had one blown up on a canvas, we see it everyday as its in the kitchen of all places 🙂 But the other images we never see and are slowly loosing in the hard drive. I look at that canvas everyday and I appreciate it.
The way Brian explained why he doesn’t offer digitals was so fair and true and people that appreciate photography will get it and want that service.
Thank you for sharing Brian and of course Andrew.
Hey Adam
Great to read your comments and I love your intentions to get more photos printed. I think most photographers feel the same yet many of us still don’t print enough. I recently looked at some online album services and was ready to commit to ordering, got distracted and still haven’t done anything!
I haven’t faced something like you though, with family photos being lost, must have been heart breaking! I have had two full hard drives with clients images formatted once but that’s a story for another time.
I’m typing from the couch in my lounge room and looking up, I see two large framed prints of my family (one taken by Brian) and like you, I love seeing and looking at them every day. I even bring clients into this room occasionally to drive home the importance of wall art over digital files.
If you get a chance, have a read through some of the earlier comments, particularly the one from Warren where he discovered Brian now offers digital files to his clients (a change he made since the interview) and Brian’s explanation and new approach.
Lastly, make sure you have a listen to the most recent interview with Kristen Kalp and her sales technique of using printed proofs as a sales tool and and incentive for clients to purchase more – it could be a simple way for you to have more prints leaving the studio.
Great to have you listening!
Speak soon
Andrew
Hey Andrew, this is the second time I listened to this episode and I love it again. The breast stuff up is gold. I had to laugh loud out :). Brian Tx for the valuable advice.
Thanks Kurt! Brian is a terrific photographer with a smart business head and is pretty funny too. 🙂
I’m lucky to be able to call him a friend.
I’ll be sure to let him know about your comment.