029: Amy Wolland – How to Generate Wedding Photography Bookings from the Get Go

029: Amy Wolland – How to Generate Wedding Photography Bookings from the Get Go

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, I'm really excited to have Amy Wolland from, originally from New Zealand, but now living in South Africa, Johannesburg, South Africa, on the line for today's call. She runs As Sweet As Images in South Africa, they've only been going for two and a half years. Things are going up and up and up, and it's a little bit different to the way most businesses run in that Amy's partner is the one that is the first point of contact and runs the office side of the business, and Amy is the primary photographer. Amy, welcome to the podcast.

Amy Wolland: Hi, Andrew. Thanks so much for having me, really excited.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, look, it's my pleasure. So did I get that right? So you're, you're the primary photographer in the business?

Amy Wolland: Yes, yeah. So, I'm the primary photographer, and then my partner, William, helps me out. He runs all the office side, as you said, he's the first point of contact for all of our clients, and he sets up meetings. We call him the operations manager because, yeah, he basically runs the operations of As Sweet As Images.

Andrew Hellmich: So, who's the boss?

Amy Wolland: I like to think I'm the boss.

Andrew Hellmich: That was a tough question to kick things off.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I like to become the boss, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you, so what sort of took you to South Africa and why a photography business?

Amy Wolland: Oh, wow. So basically, my partner and I, we've been together for about seven years now, and we both lived in New Zealand for about five of those years together, and then we just decided, well actually, William decided that he would like to come back to his home country. And I'm a bit of a traveler at heart, so, you know, I was pretty open to the suggestion, to be honest, at first, actually, I thought, "Oh, gosh, South Africa", you know, I'm sure you might have an image in your head of what South Africa is like, and it was quite scary for me in the beginning. So I kind of thought, "Oh, don't know if I want to go", and, yeah, so, so anyway, I ended up saying yes, and here I am today.

Andrew Hellmich: Did you have a photography business in New Zealand?

Amy Wolland: I didn't own a photography business. I used to work for quite a prestigious portrait photography business in New Zealand called Seton Portrait House. So I worked there for a few years, and they, I guess they kind of taught me a lot of what I know today, like, you know, from the, they gave me the foundations of what I know, and then I sort of built it up from there. Yeah, so that's what happened.

Andrew Hellmich: When you moved to South Africa then, was that? Was it always the plan to have a photography business? Or, you know, what was the idea when William said, "Okay, we go back to, back home?"

Amy Wolland: Well, I guess it wasn't an overnight thing. It was, it was mentioned quite, of quite a few, maybe two years into our relationship that maybe, maybe it was an option, maybe we were going to go. And the first thing that I thought of was, I need a qualification. Because in New Zealand, you know, you can, you can do any job, and you can earn pretty good money. But in South Africa, the way I understood it is that, you know, you need a top degree or something like that. So even though I was a photographer, I kind of thought, "Okay, I need to go and start studying", so that's actually, we were discussing this earlier. That's actually what I decided to do. I started this Diploma in Business Studies. And I guess with the thought in mind that maybe one day, if we did move to South Africa, either I could, I'd have a qualification, and maybe another company would hire me because of that qualification and my photography or that I would start my own business. So just the way it worked out was, when I got to South Africa, I was still, I was still in the middle of my studies and I applied my diploma in business onto the photography business that I was planning. So it worked out really great. I did marketing plans, I did business plans. I did, you know, financial plans, everything, but it was all for my study, but then it ended up benefiting me and the, well, us and the end as well, so.

Andrew Hellmich: With those marketing, business and advertising, what was the other plan? Marketing, advertising?

Amy Wolland: Financial. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different things..

Andrew Hellmich: Did they actually help you running a business? Were they an advantage?

Amy Wolland: Definitely, definitely for me, I think the biggest advantage was studying while I was planning to open the business, because I could apply it directly. So I guess it might be a different story if you study and then think about opening a business. But I was, yeah, I was using the studies to and I was turning that into, like, real life business plans. So, so it was really interesting for me when I was reading about marketing, and, you know, when I say a specific course, it was interesting because I could apply it to my actual real life, instead of just applying it to a figurative business.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so I love that you've done all these studies, so, and you're saying that it definitely helped you sort of with your business as you started up. But so what I really want to do is fast forward to your move to South Africa. Did you, did you have the business set up before you got there? And what were the first steps that you took to kick things off.

Amy Wolland: Oh, wow, no, I didn't have, I didn't have the business set up at all. So I guess the first steps that I took were to research, research the market, and also decide exactly what I wanted to do, coming from a portrait photography mainly, mainly, I did portrait photography in New Zealand, and then I kind of wanted to do something different, because I was, I was feeling a little bit bored with that, so I thought, "Okay, let's go on to wedding photography." So, so, you know, obviously I didn't know a lot about the wedding photography industry, and let alone the wedding photography industry in South Africa. So, so, yeah, definitely the first step that I would recommend for people to do, in general, is do your research. It's really important to make sure you know exactly what's happening, exactly what everyone else is you know is doing what market you want to enter, what price range you want to enter in the beginning, things like that.

Andrew Hellmich: And what did you come up with for yourself? So you looked at all the market. Look what other people are doing. Did you say "We want to target mid-range weddings. High end." What did you guys come up with for As Sweet As Images?

Amy Wolland: Well, at the moment, we're targeting sort of mid-range, mid-range weddings. And then once we get our name out there a bit more, so hopefully, in a few years, we want to become international photographers. That will be the ideal world, wouldn't it? So where people, where people fly us around the world, that's the aim. Yeah. And also, we want to start holding workshops and things. But at the moment, we're focusing just on Johannesburg and the Gauteng area. Then, then we want to go bigger. I want to go, you know, to all of South Africa. Then we want to go bigger and go international. So that's, that's the plan.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you've got the grand plan. So when, when you started, which is great, which is great. So when you started your business in South Africa, and you see, you've, you've mentioned that you had your target market. What did you just set up a shop and put a sign out the front?

Amy Wolland: No, everything is done online these days, especially so we work from home, and we have an office at home, and, yeah, we have, we have a website, so our first point of contact, I guess, for our clients, is for them to go onto our website, have a look at our work, and then if they're interested in that, then they contact us.

Andrew Hellmich: So how, how do people find your website?

Amy Wolland: Oh, many different ways. I guess that's a marketing question, isn't it?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I guess what I really, just before I hit record, you told me that you're into your busiest season yet. You've only been going for two and a half years, and you're pretty much booked out for this season. So I want to know how you go from having nothing to being booked out in two and a half years. What have you done in that two and a half years to get those bookings?

Amy Wolland: I think number one, I've worked like a slave. Yeah, yeah. You know, I've kind of sacrificed a lot of my life, you know, friends, gatherings, parties, things like that, especially in the beginning of the business, to, as I said, do research, figure out the market, things like that. But I guess we do a lot of, we advertise obviously.

Andrew Hellmich: Where do you advertise?

Amy Wolland: We advertise on, for example, we advertise on Facebook. We find that really beneficial. We get quite, we also advertise on Google AdWords, which is really great. I have spoken to other photographers, though, and they say, "Oh, yeah, we do that too", but it's all about setting it up properly. So you've really got to, you've really got to test different ads and make sure that they're working. If they're not working, figure out why they're not working and change it. And one thing that I've learned in the business, actually, quite recently, this was a big lesson that I learned is when you when you are marketing, you need to only change tiny little things, because if you go and say, oh no, for example, "Oh, I'm going to change all my prices and I'm going to change the whole layout of my packages. "Then, if that stops working, how do you know what it was that you changed, that made your sales or your business go down, or your inquiries go down, if that makes sense.

Andrew Hellmich: So you want to change one tiny thing at a time and engage the response and then make another tiny change.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly yeah. Because yeah, we did, we did something. We changed our entire packages, actually. And then we were like, "Oh, we started to get less inquiries." And then I realized that actually it was because I made this massive change. I had no idea what we had done.

Andrew Hellmich: What was the change that you did make? Would you put your prices up or down, or?

Amy Wolland: Put prices up and also changed our package offerings. So then, actually, I mean, we noticed quite a significant decrease. And then, so I, so what we did is we went back to our original package offering and just took the prices up. And now, now it works great, really.

Andrew Hellmich: So it went back. You got inquiries again straight away.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, pretty much. Well, we got, we were always getting inquiries, just not, not feedback. So, I mean, this is just, you know, one of those little lessons, but it's, it's really important, because running a business, obviously you need customers, and, yeah, that means you need to make sales.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you mentioned Facebook advertising and Google AdWords, and I really want to go a little bit deeper into those. So were they the only two and you had your website, were they the only sort of three things that you had going that were generating business for you in that first two years?

Amy Wolland: No, I also, you know, I try to talk to as many people as I can. Obviously, having things like business cards handy is really, like, it's just a tiny little marketing thing, but it's really important. And yeah, so we've got, we've got customers through word of mouth, and we also advertise on wedding blogs as well. So, blogs that serve as inspiration for potential brides or for brides.

Andrew Hellmich: And they're basically just a paid, a paid ad.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly. And we also try to get our work featured a lot because that, I think that works even better than advertising. I mean, if you've studied, if you've studied advertising, though, you don't really expect to get bookings as such from a paid ad, you kind of just more, you want to advertise to get your name out there, so people start seeing your name. And then possibly, if they, for example, if they 'Google wedding photographer Johannesburg', and then you come up, and now they'd actually seen your name somewhere else, then they become familiar with that name, and then they're like, "Oh, you know, I need to book them, or I need to, I need to contact them." So that's what we sort of expect from paid ads on wedding blogs, particularly.

Andrew Hellmich: And do you expect the same sort of thing with your Google AdWords and your Facebook ads? Or do you expect those to actually become bookings?

Amy Wolland: No, our Facebook, Facebook ads and the Google AdWords become bookings.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so there, so if I said, if I came to you and I said, or I'm asking you right now, what was, what is your one main source of getting, what's your biggest source of customers. What would you tell me?

Amy Wolland: Where do we get them from?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Amy Wolland: Google AdWords.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, yeah, let's have a look at them. Okay, because so I know that a lot of photographers use them. I'm pretty sure a lot don't use them very well and I'm pretty sure a lot of them, a lot of photographers are actually scared of Google AdWords, because it is pretty intimidating when you first go in there.

Amy Wolland: And it's extremely expensive as well, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Can you tell me what you do, or how you make Google AdWords work for you, and how you measure that they're actually working?

Amy Wolland: Yeah. So, so to be honest, when I first started that, I believe, I believe in always, you know, talking to the experts and finding out expert opinions, because obviously, as photographers and as business owners, we can't know everything. We just, and if we try, then, then we're going to fail in some aspects. So the first thing that I did was contact Google AdWords, you get 30 days free contact with an expert person at Google AdWords. And yeah, that's what I did. I said to her, I got in touch with this one guy. I can't remember his name now, but he was brilliant, and he helped me set it up, and then he taught me exactly the ropes. And I used to actually, I think he probably hated me, because I used to call him. It was a toll free number in the UK, and I used to call him almost every day and be like, "Oh, you know, this isn't working. What do you suggest I do?" Yeah, so he really, that was a big help for us and in setting up our Google AdWords, instead of just trying to do it ourselves.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so now I might have jumped the gun a little tiny bit here. So for listeners that aren't aware of Google AdWords. So they are the ads that appear or the listings that appear if you, if someone does a Google search, so someone searches, say, for example, 'Johannesburg, wedding photographer'. And if your website doesn't necessarily rank on the first page of Google, you may have an ad that appears above the organic ads, if you like, sorry, or the organic listings. And they're also the ads that appear down the right hand side, aren't they?

Amy Wolland: Yes, yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you paid someone to have you paid someone at this stage to manage your Google AdWords, or you're, you're still sort of going through with the advice of this guy from Google?

Amy Wolland: No, yeah, just go, I'm going through with the advice. We sort of set it up really well. And I think getting the foundations, just like anything that you do, getting the foundations right is really important, and then you can build from there. So I know how to run them myself now, and I pretty much just monitor them, but they just work for themselves. They just, yeah, so sometimes I have to go and put go and put a negative keywords.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay hang-on, you're getting technical there now. So, so you've got, so you've got keywords to start with. So can just explain what the keywords are to make your ad actually appear for someone that's looking for a wedding photographer?

Amy Wolland: Sure. So you have to think about, first of all, if you were a bride or a groom, or someone looking for a wedding photographer, specifically, what are they going to type in? So for example, for Johannesburg, a lot of our brides search 'wedding photographer Johannesburg' or 'wedding photographer in Hao Ting', which is the greater province. So keywords, those sorts of keywords, and then you also have negative keywords, which you don't want your listing to show up when people search specific words. So for example, 'wedding photography bags', you're obviously not looking for those customers. So you definitely don't want bags to come in to, what am I saying?

Andrew Hellmich: To trigger your ad to PR?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly. Because then, then you're going to be spending money, because you pay per click. So if you're, if someone's searching 'wedding photographer bag' then and they click on your ad, you're going to pay a certain amount of money for them to go onto your website, and it'd be completely irrelevant to what they're looking for. So it's all about relevance and finding your customers and finding exactly what they're searching on the internet.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you think of all the different keywords that someone would type in, and let's say, for example, it was 'Johannesburg wedding photographer'. And the reason you would have a Google AdWords account or, and run Google ads is because you may not find yourself on the first page of Google for that search term. Is that right?

Amy Wolland: Absolutely, especially in the beginning of your business and such a competitive market, Johannesburg is like, probably got about a million photographers like most places. So yeah, you definitely a lot of brides are searching Google, Google these days, and also asking their friends, but obviously that that takes a bit a bit more time.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and how much are you paying per click? Do you know that?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, it's between 12 and 25 grand per click, which is, I think you divide that by 10 in Australian dollars.

Andrew Hellmich: So it's around a $1 a click.

Amy Wolland: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and that'd be the similar for US.

Amy Wolland: Yeah. So, I mean, it's definitely not cheap advertising. I don't really like that word, but yeah, it's not cheap, it's quite expensive. So you kind of have to think, "Okay", well, actually, what I did was I set aside a budget, and I said, "Okay, if I lose all of this money, I'm not going to be bothered about it. I'm going to set aside this amount for one month and go with it. And if it works great, if it doesn't, then too bad, we'll try something else." So this goes back to testing what works and what doesn't, I guess. Yeah, so we did that, and then it worked really well. And then..

Andrew Hellmich: So what was the budget that you said that you set now? You set it per day, don't you?

Amy Wolland: You can set it per, I think it's per month.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Amy Wolland: But yeah, so, yeah, I think what I did was set a per, a daily budget, and then worked out how much that was going to be for the month.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So you could set that as little as, say, $10 and up to, you know, 50 or $100 or whatever your budget may be.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly you can, yeah, exactly. Obviously, the more your budget, the more clicks you're going to get, the more clicks you get, the more inquiries you get, and then the more inquiries you get, the more customers, potential customers you can get, so.

Andrew Hellmich: And I guess the beauty of AdWords is, once your bookings are full for that season or getting closer, then you can turn off the AdWords and you don't pay anything.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: So how do you what I really love to know, Amy, is how you measure the success of the AdWords campaign. How do you know that that's what's getting you your business?

Amy Wolland: Have you ever used AdWords before, Andrew?

Andrew Hellmich: I have.

Amy Wolland: Okay. Yeah. So actually, AdWords tells you. You just, you just have to go on to the right section of the page.

Andrew Hellmich: AdWords will tell you how many clicks that you've had to, on your ad and how many people have actually come to your website. But I guess what I'm asking is, if you've got Facebook ads, you've got ads on wedding blogs, you've got ads with Google AdWords. How do you measure, that it's the Google AdWords that are actually the ones that are converting?

Amy Wolland: Oh, that's quite simple. We have a, on our website, on our inquiry form, we say, 'Where did you hear about us?' And they say, Google or Facebook or Wedding Friends, which is, you know, one of the blogs here, or, yeah, something like that. So pretty much 99% of our clients fill that out.

Andrew Hellmich: No, tell us, okay, I was expecting something more technical, like Google Analytics, but that's great. Just ask the client. That's perfect.

Amy Wolland: We also use Google Analytics, which is a free service when you run Google AdWords, but, but yeah, when the clients just tell you, then you know exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. And then, and you mentioned Facebook advertising. Now, does that run in a similar sort of fashion?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, kind of we just set up a specific ad. For example, one of our ads that says, "Are you getting married?" And then it has a beautiful picture of, you know, a couple. And then it's like, "Click here." So when they click on that Facebook ad that takes them directly to our wedding portfolio, which is, I guess, where they want to go.

Andrew Hellmich: So hang on, sorry, Amy, is that wedding portfolio that they go to? Is that in Facebook, or is that on your website?

Amy Wolland: On our website.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, now, from my understanding, do you have a Facebook page for your business?

Amy Wolland: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: But you'd rather send them to your website rather than to your Facebook page.

Amy Wolland: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's, I'm just curious, that's all, or you doing both?

Amy Wolland: Yeah. For Facebook, you can either get likes, which is, I mean, it's really hard, like, what is a like? Just because people are following you doesn't mean they're going to book you, right? But when people, if I'm asking the question in this ad, are you getting married? Or are you looking for a wedding photographer?, specifically. And then they think to themselves, 'yes', and they click on that ad. Where do they want to be taken? To my Facebook page or to somewhere where they can see our wedding portfolio and fill out an inquiry form, because that's the most important thing for us, we need them to fill out an inquiry form. Because we want to, you know, we want to actually offer them our service. Not just say like our page, although we although we also want likes on our page.

Andrew Hellmich: But it's most important to have them go to your contact page and actually submit a form.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: So the diff, the biggest difference with the Facebook ads, apart from, you know, that separates that from the Google AdWords, is that you can actually have a picture or a photo with your Facebook ad.

Amy Wolland: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: And which is cheaper and which one works better?

Amy Wolland: Facebook is, we have a much lower budget for Facebook. I don't know if one necessarily works better. A Google AdWords works better for us, I guess, but that's only in terms of how many clicks we get. We spend a lot more money on Google AdWords, but then Facebook, we spend a tiny bit of money, and we still get inquiries, but we don't obviously get as many, if that makes sense.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah, it does, for sure. So are you actually, are you cultivating your Facebook page and sort of putting time and effort into that? Or you really put all your effort into the website and then using the Google AdWords?

Amy Wolland: No, I mean, our website runs itself now. It's already set up, so there's not a lot that we have to do, except for blogging, regularly posting new weddings and things like that, is really important. And obviously we also want to get on the top of Google organically. So that's really important to start to do. So we try to maintain that. And then I also try to maintain Facebook and Twitter, sort of just getting into Twitter, but yeah, mainly Facebook and our website is what we, yeah, the front of our business.

Andrew Hellmich: And then so with your Facebook, ae you putting lots and lots of photos in there from your wedding, from the weddings that you shoot, or you just putting a couple of teaser images there and then bringing people back to your website?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, the second one. So it's important not to scare people off with too many images, I think. So you just want to put, like, one or two of your absolute best shots onto Facebook. And then, for example, you want to blog a selection of images from one particular wedding, and then put the link on Facebook and say, "Hey, go over and check out the winning that we did last week by clicking here", and then that takes them on to our website. And then obviously, we want clicks for our website as well, because that helps to increase your, what is it called? So it helps to move you out organically on Google. So, yeah, it's quite complicated. There's lots of, there's lots of things involved, but you just sort of have to try and do everything at once.

Andrew Hellmich: So how much of this stuff are you doing? And how much is William doing?

Amy Wolland: I run a lot of the advertising side of it, side of the business. So, and he mainly deals, William mainly deals with the customers, yeah. So everything to do with the customers and customer contact, William does. And then I run a lot of the backside of the business. So, so bringing in the customers in the beginning, I guess you could say.

Andrew Hellmich: So your job is to get the phone ringing and the emails going, and then he takes care of that after, once they come in.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly. I think that's any business owners job to make sure that the business is running well, you know, you need to work on the business, not just in the business. So, so, yeah, that's what I do. I work on the business, trying, try to get exposure, get inquiries, things like that. And then, and then, yeah, he, I guess he kind of works more in the business.

Andrew Hellmich: How are you guys received being from New Zealand? I mean, I know that Williams, you know, he was from Johannesburg originally, but how were you received being from New Zealand as a new business owner, as a photographer, who you, was easy to get established? Was that a struggle?

Amy Wolland: Oh, yeah, no. It wasn't easy. It wasn't easy at all. And, and this goes back to the same thing I've been saying that you just have to try loads, loads of different things. You know, different things work for what. What might be working for me might not work for you. So, so testing and seeing what is working, and then, if you find something that's working, go with it, you know, just yeah, what, did that answer your question?

Andrew Hellmich: Though it does, yeah. So I guess what you're saying is, if you found that Google Ads was were working for you, so you would have pumped more money into that because it was working. And that makes total sense.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich: As you're building the business, what do you think has taken you from, you know, in that two years, or two and a half years, from nothing to booked up, like, what? Is it the way you're shooting? Is it your pricing? Is it, you know, what is it that separates you from your competitors do you think?

Amy Wolland: It's a combination of things? So I think just because we have successful advertising, just because we have Google AdWords, or because we have Facebook, or because we advertise on Wedding Friends or wedding blogs or it doesn't mean that we're going to get customers. It, we also have to have, I constantly push myself and my photography as well. So I make sure that every day I'm trying to improve. And I think that's really important and I think our customer service is quite, well we try to keep our customer service top notch. That is something really important that, that I've actually bought with me from New Zealand. In South Africa, I find that customer services, strangely enough, not on the top of the list for things like, if I contact businesses, some businesses won't get back to you for a week, you know. And in New Zealand, seriously, in New Zealand, you wouldn't have any customers. If you didn't get back to them for a week, you'd be out of business. So it's important, I, we try to give the same service that we would expect from others. So we try to, for example, reply to people within 24 hours. That's really important. And yeah, things like that. Customer service, making sure that you're keeping in touch, answering our customers questions, things like that.

Andrew Hellmich: So if William, so William's originally from Johannesburg, isn't he?

Amy Wolland: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Did he have that mentality of, it can wait, you know, it doesn't have to be straight away today. Can wait a week. Or is that something that you had to change? Or was he already like you are?

Amy Wolland: No, he was already like I am. He also worked around the world. So he's worked in the UK, he's worked in New Zealand, yeah, so he sort of understands that as well, so it's quite important to him too.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so that would be definitely one thing that will be separating you from possibly other photographers in your area, that customer service?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, absolutely. And it's something that our clients specifically say to us, "Thank you so much for replying to me so quickly." I mean, sometimes some of our customers will wait five minutes, if we're, you know, if we're in the office, then we'll reply straight away.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, right.

Amy Wolland: Because the customer comes first and yeah, without them, you won't have a business. So it's important to really treat them well.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I guess, if you're hearing that from clients, then you know you're definitely doing something right and the other guys aren't.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, I guess the other thing that I hear, or that we hear from our clients, is, is that they love our fresh, natural approach to photography. So we don't really do, I guess we pose our clients, but we try to keep it as natural and as fun as possible. I'm a very outgoing, fun person, so I really try to put that through into my work, because that's when I really get to enjoy what I'm doing. Yeah, so for example, on a wedding day, and we're in a, we're doing a couple shoot. Like, there's always a lot of laughs. Sometimes, like almost rolling on the floor laughing. I actually said the other day, "Oh no, I think my photography is too happy." And I was actually speaking to a client while I was saying this, I was like, "Oh, sometimes I wonder". And she said, "Oh, wow, is there any, is there any such thing as being too happy, Amy, on your wedding day? "And I was like, "No, no, yeah. So, so that was at the meeting actually, and she booked us.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, that's great. So do you think you're, do you think the brides are talking to their friends and telling them about you, and the fact that you're from New Zealand, you're a little bit different. Have you noticed that sort of thing?

Amy Wolland: Slowly, we've started to get quite a few referrals now. So that's really coming through. So that's, it's nice. It's a nice feeling, because you know that that we are exceeding our customers’ expectations, and that's really important, because if they're telling their friends about you, then, then they've been really impressed, so

Andrew Hellmich: Nice.

Amy Wolland: So yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Now, I want to get to these 10 quick questions. But there's one thing that I didn't ask you earlier on when you brought it up, is Johannesburg, is it as dangerous as what people hear?

Amy Wolland: Um, no, basically.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so do you see violence on the street?

Amy Wolland: No, not really. Oh, once,

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, once in two and a half year.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, yeah. Once we were, we were driving down the highway, and some, some guy had stolen another guy's bike, bicycle, and the guy that owned the bike was chasing, chasing this black dude down the road with his with his tire pump, waving it in the air. Yeah, so that's, that's pretty much the only thing I've personally seen. It's, it's nothing like you would imagine. It's actually, we live, we live in a nice place, part of Johannesburg, and there's lots of security, so which kind of freaks people out.

Andrew Hellmich: This is high walls and big gates?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, there is, and there's big fences and stuff. But that it's there because it's a deterrent. So actually, there's no, for us we live in this nice complex with three pools and a clubhouse with a bar and palm trees. And it's, it's actually lovely.

Andrew Hellmich: Sounds nice, yeah, sounds like a resort.

Amy Wolland: Yeah. It kind of is, like, you come in, it feels like a resort, and you're friends with all of the people in the complex and it's lovely. And, you know, we can, believe it or not, we can go outside the gate and go for a walk.

Andrew Hellmich: Night time?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, you can. I saw an old man walking last night with his dog. I wouldn't want to do it personally, because it's not like, you don't want to risk these things, because there are opportunists everywhere, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. At a wedding, would you do night shots after the reception?

Amy Wolland: Absolutely, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay.

Amy Wolland: And it's the same sort of thing at weddings. They usually have good security. And, yeah, there's this, there's not a lot that like happens at weddings, but criminals aren't coming in and into your wedding.

Andrew Hellmich: So you don't have to pack a gun in your camera bag?

Amy Wolland: Absolutely not, no. And you know, we drive past squatter camps and things at night, after weddings, and it's just important that you lock your doors, you keep your camera equipment away. You are aware of your surroundings, because, you know, it's late at night, it's dark, you're basically, yeah, you're in the middle of nowhere, and there's, there's a million squatters right next to you, so you just have to be aware. But it's, yeah, it's definitely not as scary as you think it would be, or as I thought it was going to be. When I first, I'll tell you just a quick story.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Amy Wolland: When I first got off the plane to come and move to South Africa. Oh, no, no, this was a holiday. So I first, I came for a holiday for a few months, and when I first got off the plane, I literally said to William, "So where's all the people running around with guns?" And he was like, "Amy, you're not coming into guerrilla warfare", because that's the, that's sort of the idea I had. And then also I thought, "Oh, you know, where's all the lions and elephants running around?" and also, there's, there's none of that, unfortunately, only in the wild, d*mn it.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, nowhere near is exciting.

Amy Wolland: Yeah. So, yeah, so it's very different to what you'd expect.

Andrew Hellmich: Very good. All right, are you ready for these 10 quick questions?

Amy Wolland: I'm not sure. I think so.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, there we go. 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, go! Canon or Nikon?

Amy Wolland: Canon.

Andrew Hellmich: What's your favorite lens and why?

Amy Wolland: Oh, I love the 100 mil.

Andrew Hellmich: The macro, or the?

Amy Wolland: 100 mil macro, it's beautiful. It's, yeah, it's just beautiful. It's beautiful for portraits, and it's beautiful like, you know, can get beautiful ring shots and things like that, yeah, just love it. And it's sharp. So sharp.

Andrew Hellmich: Beautiful. Do you shoot JPEG or RAW?

Amy Wolland: RAW

Andrew Hellmich: I might as well not asking that question, I'm getting too many RAW answers these days. What's so important?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, I used to shoot JPEG, and then you can come across, like, color issues, and you just can't change it, like you can RAW so. So, if anyone is out there shooting JPEG, just stop.

Andrew Hellmich: I shoot JPEG. Yeah.

Amy Wolland: Do you? No. Don't you find it difficult with colors and stuff?

Andrew Hellmich: You just turn it black and white, add some grain, and you're away. I'm joking..

Amy Wolland: Add some grain.

Andrew Hellmich: I love shooting JPEG and yeah, I can't see myself changing in the near future, not, not for weddings, anyway, but anyway, this is all about you. So what's, what's one setback you faced along the way?

Amy Wolland: Setback? Oh, Visa like. So in my business, my visa.

Andrew Hellmich: See, what, because you couldn't start a business because you didn't have the visa?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly, so for quite some time, in the planning stages. So even though I've been here for two and a half years, officially, we haven't been open. We haven't been open for that long. We've probably only been open for, yeah, one and a half years, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So, how did you set-up business with William, are you a partnership or a sole trader or a Proprietary Limited?

Amy Wolland: We have a shelf company, it's a closed Corporation. I'm not sure if you have it there. It's kind of like a company.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool and so you would have needed your visas unless, unless you set it up solely in William's name, is that right?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, not really. It's really difficult for people, foreigners to come to South Africa and work full stop, because there's a lot of people that are out of jobs. So there, the government's thinking is, why should we let foreigners come in and take those jobs?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. Sure. I understand that. Sure. That's a huge step back. Well, look on the other side. What's one thing that you can look back on and think, yeah, you know, that's when the business took a big step forward, a big leap?

Amy Wolland: When William joined the business. So for a while, I was working by myself, and when he joined the business, that's when we really, we kind of, we kind of had to sink or swim. It was like, you know, we're in this foreign country. We don't have a lot of support. It was like, we have to make money, so let's do it. And we did.

Andrew Hellmich: Good, Amy. That's unreal. What software do you use for your batching, your editing and your renaming and renumbering?

Amy Wolland: Photoshop, CS5. So we use Bridge.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So you bring all these files into Bridge, then you do your deleting, and you're editing there, and you're renaming and stuff like that, all in Bridge?

Amy Wolland: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Do you, do you watch what other photographers are doing now? I know you did when you first set up to get an idea of the market, but do you still watch what they're doing now?

Amy Wolland: I try not to. I do, but I like, because I'd like a lot of people on Facebook actually, so I see, I see some work, but I'm actually moving into trying to like fashion photographers and wedding photographers in different countries, because otherwise you can, otherwise, I find that you know you start to, not purposely copy people, but it just, you know their work becomes ingrained into your memory and you can start to get similar work as other people if you constantly follow what other people are doing. It's not good to be a sheep.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. What do you wear when you're shooting? Do you have a uniform?

Amy Wolland: We have a uniform for our corporate work. So we do a little bit of corporate work, and we wear As Sweet As Images t-shirts, and for weddings, this is actually something that I would like to find, like I'm, I'm sort of in the middle of, I need to find some really cool clothes to wear for things. If anyone out there has any ideas, can you do Facebook and tell me what you find works. Because, yeah, it's tricky. You're trying to balance looking great with being comfortable and not getting too hot. Because, you know, it obviously gets really hot in South Africa, especially in the summertime. So, so yeah, trying to balance that as being quite hard.

Andrew Hellmich: So what do you wear now? Like just, I guess, a pair of slacks, pants and a blouse?

Amy Wolland: Yeah, so just, like, I just wear comfy, comfy dress, dress kind of pants, dress kind of, like stretchy waist and things that I can move around and that they're not too tight, because otherwise you can rip them when you're bending.

Andrew Hellmich: I've had a few stories like that, but mainly from male photographers.

Amy Wolland: Oh, really?

Andrew Hellmich: What sort of shoes? What sort of shoes do you wear?

Amy Wolland: I usually just wear. What do you call them? Trainers like sneakers, yeah, but, but more dressy sneakers. That's at the moment, though, and it's because it's still winter, so I'm looking for some nice, what do you call them? Sandals, I think.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, yeah, yep, yeah.

Amy Wolland: So I want to get some, some nice sandals for summer.

Andrew Hellmich: I haven't asked anyone this one before, and I'm just gonna throw it in now. Do you think it's harder getting started as a woman in business as a wedding photographer, or do you think it'd be or do you think it'd be easier as a guy?

Amy Wolland: Well, I think that if you have enough determination to do anything, then anybody can do it in this day and age. Literally, if you really want to do something, you just have to set your mind to it and do it. That's the, yeah, you just have to start at the beginning and yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Just do it. Just do it.

Amy Wolland: Yeah, exactly. But no, I don't think it's harder. I think it'll be the same.

Andrew Hellmich: All right. Last question, what's your most embarrassing moment while you're shooting a wedding or stuff up that you're happy to share?

Amy Wolland: Oh, yeah, okay, I've thought about this one. So when I first sort of came to South Africa, I helped out this photographer, as an assistant and second shooter, or I was the second shooter, and we were, it was in the middle of the ceremony, and they were just exchanging vows, the couple. And then I went right up close to them to get a nice close up shot. And I looked over at this guest, and she started waving her hand, like, trying to get my attention. I was looking at it. I was like, "What?" And then she was like, "Your hair is on fire!" And I, I have very long, curly hair, so it's big hair, so I'm not surprised that it caught on fire. Gosh. So, so then I was, I kind of got into a bit of a panic, and then everybody looked at me, of course, and I was like, just patted, patted my hair out and then I just tried to play it down, like nothing happened. I was like, "Oh, no, fine. Everybody carry on. Nothing's gone." And then, yeah, I just went back at a ceremony.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh my goodness. Did you walk past the candle or something?

Amy Wolland: Oh yeah, there was a candle right by them, and I put my head in it.

Andrew Hellmich: Did you ever get to second shoot for that photographer again?

Amy Wolland: No, yeah. He never called me again. I wonder why.

Andrew Hellmich: Because you stole the show. I love it. I love it. Amy, how can people check out your work and connect with you online if they want to?

Amy Wolland: Okay, so you can check out our work on our website, which is, dub, dub, dub, dot, A-S-A, images.co.za. You can also find us on Facebook, which is you can just literally type in As Sweet As Images. And Twitter is at ASA Images.

Andrew Hellmich: Very cool. And I'll put links to all of those in the show notes as well for this episode. Amy, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Amy Wolland: Pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Andrew, and to everybody out there, good luck with your business. If you have any questions from what we've discussed today, then I'm happy to answer them. Just tweet me or send a message on Facebook, or you can go onto our website and send a send an email. Or my email is [email protected].

Andrew Hellmich: What I'm going to try and do, Amy, I'm going to encourage listeners to use the comment section of the website.

Amy Wolland: Okay, cool.

Andrew Hellmich: For the podcast. And then, and then you can jump over there, and I'll let you know if there's questions there that you can answer, because you normally get a bit of interaction. And people talk about their biggest takeaways after each episode, what they learned, and often, often have a few questions as well.

Amy Wolland: Okay, perfect. Yeah, I'll be happy to answer them.

Andrew Hellmich: Excellent. Thanks, Amy.

Amy Wolland: Cheers. Thanks so much.

 
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