047: Michael Steingard – How To Build Your Own Destination Wedding Photography Business

047: Michael Steingard – How To Build Your Own Destination Wedding Photography Business

Andrew Hellmich: I've been waiting months to get today's photographer on the show. Michael Steingard is a young Canadian based wedding and portrait photograph. But following him on Facebook, he doesn't seem to spend too much time there. He's all over the place. Now you've got to check out his photography, it's absolutely gorgeous. He's a third-generation photographer, and from what I understand, he owes a lot of success to his Uncle Phil, and I'm sure we hear more about him in the interview. I'm looking forward to finding out how and why the business that he has works the way it does. Michael, welcome to the podcast, mate.

Michael Steingard: Thanks so much. Andrew, it is fantastic to be here.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal, unreal. So, do you want to maybe start by telling the listener a little bit about where you're based? I know I said Canada, and maybe a little bit about your business, sort of what you do day to day.

Michael Steingard: Yeah, for sure. So, I'm living in a small, little rural town here in Ontario called Stratford. It is made famous by two main things. It's William Shakespeare, there's a lot of plays and things here, and Justin Bieber, this is his hometown. So, and so in terms of my background, my day to day, I basically primarily focus on weddings. It's, it's my passion, it's what I love to do, and basically working on, you know, calling clients, the emails, and just basically everything based around, around the wedding day itself. So I don't, I don't branch out on a huge, huge amounts of different limbs, but, but kind of love to focus on, on what I feel like I do well and love to do.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. So when I was, when you say you're in a small town, you know, not too far from Toronto. Is a Toronto, is that where most of your clients come from?

Michael Steingard: I'd say a large portion of my clients come from just north of Toronto. I've, I am, I've been where I'm living right now for about a year, just over a year. So it was about eight years I lived in Barrie, and that's about an hour north of Toronto. So a large portion of my weddings would happen roughly anywhere, you know, 45 minutes south of Barrie to 45 minutes north of Barrie. And so I kind of picked up that, that kind of more smaller town area and medium sized cities, north of the city.

Andrew Hellmich: So would your prices be different to say that the city-based photographer that's doing a lot of weddings, you know, with city clients?

Michael Steingard: Yeah. So I began photography, as you mentioned, I work with my uncle in both a lot of different ways. I can chat about that later. Our studio that I've worked with him is based in Alliston, Ontario, which is a small little potato farming community about, about 45 minutes north of the city. So our prices really reflect kind of like your average, average everyday people. But our photography, we really aspire to be much more than average everyday photography. So that's, that's kind of where our prices are based from. So in the city, if anything, you know, ranges from, you know, 3,000, 6,000 or upwards, ours would, would be more in the, the two to 3,000 kind of, kind of range.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so two to 3000 would that be sort of a totally finished product that includes albums, the whole thing?

Michael Steingard: Our coverage has tended to primarily focus on, on the coverage, the editing process, and really focusing on the image itself. So, our albums are always in addition to those prices, and usually kind of are, on a client by client basis afterwards. So our approach is really very much on the wedding day and then the images themselves.

Andrew Hellmich: So you don't really count on getting an album or selling an album to every single client that you're shooting for.

Michael Steingard: Yeah, it's not been our focus to kind of incorporate that into who we are. It may be at some point when I feel like, you know, when we reach the point where we feel like it's something incredibly unique and valuable that we bring. We really feel like our strength, and my strength is, the, you know, the creative process, the shooting process, the editing approach, and then just who you are and what you bring as a great photographer in person.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, sure. I mean, I can see your photography is simply amazing. And I'll just, just to finish off with a number side of things. So I guess the listener knows, you know where they, they like to, I guess compare themselves, where they're situated, to the to the guest on the show, you.

Michael Steingard: Okay.

Andrew Hellmich: So roughly, I mean, do you know what your average sale is for a wedding?

Michael Steingard: I would say just a little over 2,000 if you rounded them all out between, between all of them. 2,000 to 2,500. I, like I said, I, I personally don't, don't push the albums in a huge way. I have a very, I would say, somewhat, a somewhat streamlined approach to my business and my shooting, and so I'm not adding huge amount of complication, huge amounts of sales to each, to each wedding. I feel like there's definitely advantages that come out on the other aspects of your, of your business, in life.

Andrew Hellmich: And what about numbers of weddings? How many you're shooting per year?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, I would say roughly about forty a year.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. And that's, and how many of those are in Canada?

Michael Steingard: Actually, now I think of it, I'm probably closer to 50. And I would say about 20-25 in Canada, maybe another 25 of those would be outside of Canada. So maybe, maybe 50, 50 right now.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, cool. So you're a big, you do a lot of destination weddings.

Michael Steingard: Yes, I do. I do a great number of destination weddings. A very frequent place for me to end up is, is the beaches of Punta Cana, probably a little bit of aways from Australia, but it is a huge, it is a huge destination for weddings, just for vacationing in general. There's a huge number of resorts down there. And we're finding, as I think a lot of people have noticed that, you know, destination wedding photography went from this crazy idea that some, some people have decided to venture out and do. And now when people get married, it's like, "Hmm, do I want a home wedding or do I want a destination wedding?" It's almost, it's almost like the A or B kind of choice these days.

Andrew Hellmich: Whereabouts you doing most of these weddings? What's the, which country is it?

Michael Steingard: So, Dominican Republic is, Punta Cana is in Dominican Republic.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic, okay. All right, so let's get into a little bit about your background, I guess, because, so was that, right, you're a third generation photographer?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, I think it's, it's incredibly amazing to have the privilege of calling myself a third generation wedding photographer. I think it's a really interesting and funny and ironic kind of thing where, you know, growing up as a young man like, you know, the last thing you'd ever expect is to want to kind of fall in line with the family business. You, you think you're going to be forged and be your own man and go out and, you know, have these great ventures. And, and so for me, I, I really fell in love with photography at the end of high school. I changed schools, you know, my last year, and they had a photography program, and I was so frustrated that they wouldn't let me take the course because I didn't take it in my younger grades that I, that I decided to take it on as my own venture. So I, I managed to find a giant course book of some kind, and just kind of started ingesting photography with a great passion and the, and so after high school, I did a few trips. I love travel, it's a huge part of what I love to do. And so I think that's where I started to cultivate the love for photography. And basically from, from there, moms tend to do what moms do best, and that's brag about their kids. And so during a family gathering of ours, at one point, she kind of broke out some of the photographs that I, that I'd been taking in my travels, and showed off one of my uncles. Actually, have two, two uncles who have been in the wedding photography business. And so one, one of the my uncles, his name is Phil, he saw some of my work, and was, you know, jumps right into, "Wow. I really like that. And have you ever considered this? And if you change this, and you crop that." I was like, "Wow, that's really cool." And so he convinced me to come out to hang out with him for a few weddings. And it kind of just took off from there.

Andrew Hellmich: So this is what back in your 20s, or you still 18 at this stage?

Michael Steingard: I would say probably 18, 19, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay, and then how long until you got actually involved with, you know, having that as a business?

Michael Steingard: So I would say, you know, one of the cool things about having family involved is it has the potential for such an amazing and smooth transition from knowing nothing to kind of, you know, being out on your own, you know, on your own, just venturing into the world of business. So it was a really, like, gentle, gradual thing, I'd say for the first, first couple years. And I'd say the first year and a half, it was more so just hanging along and getting a free lunch and, you know, carrying some light stands looking, you know. Even, even back then, like, you know, I think a lot of photographers were shooting, you know, tripod on the ground all the time, you know. You posed your people. And so I just kind of look through his camera when, when he's posing them, it's sitting on the tripod there, and, and so I would say, during the first two years or so, it was a lot of learning and watching, as well as I had the odd kind of people start to catch wind that I was taking pictures. And I'll be like, "Oh, can you help shoot this wedding here?" Or I had one, one friend of the family who had me shoot her wedding, like, like, probably a significant time before I was really getting into it, and she just trusted me with it, and it turned out amazing. So, so it really was a lot of taking-in and then starting to do the second shooting. For me, it was kind of interesting, because I've always been an artistic person. But in my younger years, I was really quiet, quite shy, so the thought of gathering people together and actually taking their picture kind of freaked me out a little bit. So it was, it's been an amazing growth journey, both professionally and personally and, and as an artist too.

Andrew Hellmich: Just so I understand the actual business side of things. So is it Phil's business that you work in, or you guys a partnership, or do you have your two separate businesses now? How's, how's it all set up now?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, that's, that's a fantastic question. And the question, it would actually have a different answer, depending on when you asked me. So working with family is, is the coolest thing. It's also, you know, it's always very quirky. So we have a very interesting relationship, and a business relationship in that in the earlier years, Phil had really forged the destination wedding market. And he, he's kind of planning himself in Punta Cana and become a real resource on Facebook, online for brides who want to get married down there. And so, so he's, he's really generate a lot of interest in that area. And for me, I've very, very much been person who just strives for excellence and beauty and everything that I do. And so wherever I am, I generally try and generate more business, just, just to the rippling effect of the people who know people and then people you meet along the way. So, so over the past, I would say, you know, for four or five years when I've been doing this as very much a career type choice. It's been really interesting and backwards, and that our relationship has been, I have photographed home weddings as a studio photographer connected with Steingard Studios, and that would be Phil's studio. For destination weddings, it's very much been under my own brand and name, under Michael Steingard Photography. The funny thing about it is a large portion of the business that I got for destination weddings was really, I have Phil to thank for, and quite a number of the weddings that I've shot in at home have been connections and people that I've kind of developed relationship with. So, so it's very much we've had a very give, give relationship where, you know, some of the business and profits that I've really can take account for are actually blessing his business. And a lot of the, the, you know, pioneering that he's done for destination weddings has really basically gone to bless me directly. And so, so it's a kind of a cool relationship. I still shoot with Steingard Studios, but as I do live in a different area, and I am sort of transitioning into the next phase of life. I'm very much, we're kind of transitioning over the next couple of years for me to shoot as my, as my own business, but still be, be kind of a partnering, relational type, type, connection between our two businesses.

Andrew Hellmich: So, okay, so Steingard..

Michael Steingard: Bit of a complicated answer.

Andrew Hellmich: No, no, I think, I think I've got a handle on it. But so, so let me understand, if someone, if a bride or a couple rings Steingard Studios, which is Phil's studio, for a wedding in the Dominican Republic, does he, does he go down there and shoot that himself? Or does he say, "Michael, I've got another wedding for you, can you go and cover this one?"

Michael Steingard: We kind of work it out depending on, on when we can travel down. So there's, there's been times where Phil will stay down a couple of weeks and photograph a number of weddings in Punta Cana, and I may fly down for the third week of, say, April, and I might have a wedding or two that I've, that I have connected with for there. And so I will send leads Phil's way, if he's, if he's down at a time that I'm not, and he'll, kind of vice versa. He'll, he'll send people my way. So a lot of times, you know, people are, are emailing us directly. And so for destination weddings, I think in the past, a lot of times he's, he's really cultivated enough of interest in the Dominican that there's always overflow. So, some people see my work because I've photographed in Dominican many times before. And other times people have, have you know, seen Phil in forums and stuff where he's been sharing about, about different resorts, especially the Majestic Resorts where we work a lot. He's really been plugged into their Facebook group, and so many times I do have him to thank for, for some of the weddings that end up giving me a call or giving me an email.

Andrew Hellmich: What a great relationship and what a way to get started in destination or wedding photography altogether. That's just, it's very cool. I know that the listener would be desperately interested to hear about getting started in destination weddings. And I know that you had, I guess you had that foot in the door with your Uncle Phil. If you were to go out on your own now, you know, how would you, you know, and you didn't have Phil's backing, or you're going to target a brand new area. What would you, what would you do to get started?

Michael Steingard: Well, two things, I think I'll pull in some advice that I thought was fascinating from a great photographer named David Beckstead from, from the United States. We had a chance to go visit him, and I love learning too. So we did a workshop with him, and he talked about how he loved travel, and he wanted to shoot in different countries around the world, and he would just fly there, and do you know, just do a model shoot, say, in Prague or something like that. And then you'd have these images of that area, and would post them and share them with, you know, connections to those specific areas. So my thought is, if you want to go shoot somewhere, just find a way to get there and start producing images that you're really proud of in that area. I know, for me at the beginning, you know, it's a little bit harder to break into the destination weddings sometimes. But as soon as you have images to show of destination weddings, people are so much more open to having you shoot. And if you've shot a certain place, or if you've been different places, I know people are like, "Oh, you've been there", "Oh, you've, you've", "Oh, you've shot at that resort." "Oh, that's great." "What's it like", you know? So I think it's probably universal across the board, is like you know, if you, if you have the work to show, then people will definitely be showing interest. And then from there, it's, it's just about, you know, how you connect, how you relate, and things, things like that.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, okay, so how do you do that? Mean, that's, that to me is the big question. I think it's, I think anyone can go to a destination and start, you know, putting some images together that we're proud of, but how do we get word out to, are you targeting people that live in that area? Are you targeting people in your area that want to go there for the, for their wedding?

Michael Steingard: I think when people are, are, you know, getting married, say, in Punta Cana, a lot of times they've never been to the resort, or sometimes I've never been there at all. So I think a lot of brides go into, like, ultra research mode, and they just read any blog, any form that they can find, you know, regarding that area. So I think a lot of the inquiries that we receive are people that are kind of traveling to some of the same resorts that Phil or I photographed many times in the past. And I think a lot of brides are more than happy to share their experience. So I think a lot of people, brides are asking questions before they go, and then they're sharing experiences after they go. So I think one of the hopes that, that I've always had with everything that I do, is that I leave kind of a trail of excited and happy people behind me. Certain weddings is that, that a photograph down there are, like, you know, the forum kind of junkies. That's like, they've been married three years, but they're still on the same bridal forum, you know, chit chatting with all the other brides and, and, you know, sharing their experience about their wedding day that included me. And so I think reviews have a huge, a huge part to play. And then, in Phil's case, he's actually very active on that, the Facebook group for the brides who are going to get, going to get married at these different resorts, whether it be the Majestic Resort or Dreams or, or Jellyfish, is at a restaurant down there that does a lot of weddings. And so there's these places where brides go to learn about where they're going to get married. And then, you know, along the way, they meet other brides, or they meet knowledgeable people like Phil, who are more than happy to share wisdom and advice about their day. And then, "Hey, they don't have a photographer yet." "Hey, well, Phil", you know, "I ran into Phil already, and, you know, maybe he can shoot my wedding, and he's down there all the time." So, so that's, that's really what has worked well for him in terms of the destination wedding approach.

Andrew Hellmich: I want to come back to the forum thing in just a minute. But you're saying that the brides, particularly, are doing a lot of research. They're going to, you know, super research mode, particularly if they're going for a destination wedding. But when I look at your website, you have amazing images, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a gorgeous website, but there's very, very little text. So how, I mean, I'm guessing you need a lot of text work. I'm sure you need a lot of text to rank well, as far as SEO goes, you know, if the girls are searching for, you know, Quincy, is it Quincy Cana?

Michael Steingard: Punta Cana, yeah. P-U..

Andrew Hellmich: Punta.

Michael Steingard: Yeah, Punta.

Andrew Hellmich: Punta. So, yeah, if they're searching Punta Cana weddings, then I can't imagine that your website will come up that often.

Michael Steingard: No, no. A lot of times it's them reading, whether it be reviews of their wedding, which includes, includes my name. So through those forums, and even as I'm shooting weddings down there, I usually just, just leave the bride, you know, as, as we chat about the day, you know, a lot of times it's like a wedding and then a 'trash the dress'. So you get to spend a lot of time with the bride and groom, and as we're, you know, saying, saying goodbye, you know, after trash the dress, and we've had a great time together. A lot of times it's just be like, "Hey, you know, if you get a chance to just, just share some of your thoughts for other brides that are soon to come down here makes a, makes a big difference, just for brides to hear from other brides what their experience was like." And then, usually, the brides and grooms are more than willing to share their experience with you and, and I've always, I'm always confident that anything that they will have to say will have been good. And if it happens to be an odd, weird, you know, wedding where there's a... I can't even really think of any weddings that have been bad connections or not good experiences. But if that was the case, I would just generally, probably just not mention it at all and let that whole kind of wedding float on by, but..

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. So when you say, you know, when you, you've built up this great relationship, and you're asking the couple at the trash the dress shoot to share their experiences. Are you asking them to share that with you so you can post it on your blog? Or you ask them to go back into a particular forum or one that they're already involved with?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, many times these brides are already, you know, you know, asking for advice, or just, just, you know, mingling and chit chatting on, on some of these Facebook or best destination wedding forums. So, so I do ask them just to share a little bit of a review, or just some of their thoughts and their wedding day on those forums and, and so you're just kind of leaving a trail of times where, where you've been mentioned from real people about, about weddings, you know, things like that.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and do you get involved in these forums yourself?

Michael Steingard: I've sat back a little bit for myself. That somewhat comes down to my personality, where Phil and I are pretty much polar opposites. So he's the ultimate people person, and I'm a little bit more of a, of a technical, really low-key, little more of a quiet person at times. So, so I've really let him kind of take the lead on being the kind of the information guru guy for destination wedding stuff. And for me, I've actually very much more focused on, on the home wedding, even though I shoot huge amount, you know, destination weddings right now. I think even over the next few years, I'm probably going to do a little bit more of home wedding type photography and, and I've some, some different things that I'm working with that to see the home weddings grow. So, so I've, I've, in a sense, I've really kind of babied the home, the home wedding type thing, in the last year or so, and then with destination weddings, really kind of slightly leaned on, on the relationship type thing with Phil. So, so I'm kind of letting him, his strengths in that area, kind of generate weddings and that for us to work as a, as a family kind of unit.

Andrew Hellmich: I do want to talk a little bit more about the home side of things that you just mentioned there, but just while we're still in the subject of destination weddings and talking about your personality, I mean, you said to yourself that you're quiet, but when I look at your photos, I mean, I can see that the couples are having fun like, so do you, do you change? Because I know that the listener, there's going to be some listeners, you know, on the, on the line, thinking, "Yeah, I don't have that upbeat, you know, super-duper personality, shining light, creating fun." And they are subdued and quiet, and I'm sure that some of them will be thinking, you know, "What does Michael do to get these shots?"

Michael Steingard: I think that's an amazing question, Andrew. I, and that's it, you know, it's been such a, such a, an amazing journey for me, and it incredibly stretching at times where I've had to just, sometimes just throw yourself into a situation and, and, you know, just be as outgoing, as bold as you can and, and it's worked out awesome I think. I think every time you stretch yourself and just step out there, good things can happen. And so I think in a work, in a work type environment, over this, over, you know, time, as I've continued to do it, you start to feel confident about what, what kind of work you can produce. And then you, then you begin to ask for more, for people. And you know, I really believe, if you get excited about something, and you believe in it, that people catch wind of that. And so for our weddings, we have, we have a fantastic time. And, you know, and I, I find myself like absolutely enjoying the interactions that I have with all the people that I meet. The next day I might want to just chill out, not talk to anybody. But for the wedding day itself, one of the things that, that kind of rings true in my mind is I have all these sayings that have, that have just been in my ear over the years by hanging out with my uncle. And, and, you know, and this was even passed down from, from his dad, from my grandfather, but it's like, he's always says, you know, "If you're nice to people, you're halfway there." And I think most, most listeners will be like, "Well, well, I'm good to people, but it's like, well, yeah but like, like really like, go, go after like, you know, help carry people's bags. Like, like, like, no, there's no, you know, "I'll do this, but I won't do this." It's, you know, I'll, I'll sit there and create images that are like, "Wow, how did you do that?" But then at the same time, it's like, you're willing to serve them in kind of, you know, nothing is too low for me to do, you know. And people will never make you do, you know, waste your time when they need to, you know, be doing photographic stuff. But really in every situation, I think, just go in with, with, with humility and excitement and just, you know, be happy to talk to anyone you meet, and just, just be as warm and kind of genuine as you can. And so if it's okay just to share a kind of an interesting story about, about the whole perception of you as a photographer. I remember Phil saying this, this story about, there's these two sisters that were getting married, and the older sister hired one of the best, one of the best wedding photographers in Ontario at the time. He was like, the dude, like, super expensive, super posh, super classy. And so, you know, he came in and just did his thing, and, like, took amazingly beautiful photographs. And this family had known Phil a little bit, and so the younger sister, her time was that, came around to get married, and they wanted to hire, hire Phil. And he was incredibly nervous about like, "Well, you know, how can I, how can I follow up and, and, you know, shoot after, after this, this amazing photographer, you know, took these pictures, and this is what the family has expectations for." And he just kind of came in and did his typical, like, you know, just be fun and make everybody laugh and make everyone comfortable, and, and, you know, just did his thing. And by the end of the day, the family just loved him. They just loved him. And when they saw the pictures, you know, a couple weeks later, and then they said they chatted with Phil, they're like, "You know, you know Phil, we think that we like your pictures even better." Like, "Don't tell, don't tell, you know, the older sister. But we think, we think we like your pictures better." And, and any photographer would know that the, the actual level of excellence in the photography would have you know was, was that much better for the first wedding. But I think the perspective of the person, you know with, with this other photographer definitely being a little bit more cold and kind of regimented in how he shoots. I think their perception was so changed by their experience that I think that it goes a long ways with people that if they, if they actually, you know, really come to love who you are, then, then they'll look at their pictures and they'll love them, you know. If the experience was, was uncomfortable or, or, you know, a little bit stiff, or, you know, cold, then I think that really influences how people see their own photographs.

Andrew Hellmich: I agree 100%. I think if the couple in the family have a great time on the wedding day, you know, the photos, although they should still be fantastic, they could even be, you know, like, like you say, not as good as the best photography. But if it brings back memories of a great day, they're great photos.

Michael Steingard: Totally.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So does Phil use that then or now to market himself in a different way, or does he try and get that across to prospective clients?

Michael Steingard: You know, you talk about strengths that each person brings, and, you know, even for the clients or for the listeners today who are like, you know, "Well, I'm a bit more this way. I'm a bit more this way." And the differences for me and Phil, I think we slightly market ourselves in different ways based on what we do really well. So one of the things that I do really well is I'm really comfortable with the editing process. A lot of the, some of the stylistic things that we've developed in our studio, and the editing process has been slightly more my kind of baby. My you know, some of the looks and the Lightroom type presets and things like that that we use often and, and Phil just loves to talk at people. He could, he could, he could just, he could just talk and never stop. And for some reason, everyone listening will, will never really get bored of it. It's, it's the most remarkable thing. And so for say, weddings and receptions, I think, I think what Phil really does well is just share stories and excitement and who he is and, and just, just get to know people really well. I think one of the things that I've always felt really confident about is the detail and the art and the image. Everything I do, I've learned from Phil to be genuine and caring and loving to the people that I do, but just with a few less words, with many less words, really. And so one of the things that I do for receptions is, any reception that I photograph is, I've learned how to do a same day slide show, even, even when I'm the only photographer there, be able to find time to edit good handful of images on my laptop and share them during the reception evening itself. And I've invested in an amazing projector so I know that I can go to any, any venue, and still have images that look good. I've had a lot of bad projectors that show up in the day, and so I don't trust any projector anymore, other than my own. So for us, the, you know, kind of one of the ways that we share who we are is I love to share the images that I create. I think that's one of the things that I feel most proud of. For Phil, his images are amazing. But for people, just getting to know him and going, you know, having, having a shot with all the, all the groomsmen over at the bar is his way of making relationship with people. So we tend to lean slightly towards our different strengths. And I think it works really well for each of us.

Andrew Hellmich: That's totally honest. And I can hear there's definitely a different, like you said, your polar opposites as far as personalities go. And I'm certainly getting that, that gist as we chat longer. Just one last question with the destination side of things, aimed more at the listener who's thinking about doing their first destination wedding, or maybe heading down that road. When you went to your first one, did you, did you turn up early and go and scout the locations and, you know, work out where you're going to go? Or did you just play it by ear and just you're in the couple's hands and you're going to shoot whatever you're presented with?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, a couple thoughts come up. I think the first destination wedding I shot, I did have the opportunity of being at the resort beforehand. So I was, I remember the first time Phil called me, just in the early years when I was doing a little bit of shooting with him at home, and he said, "Well, I have a trip coming up with a few weddings. And so, you know, why don't you come down and just help me shoot and just give me a hand." And I thought, "Wow, I might actually, is the first time going to Caribbean." It's like, "I might actually get to go on vacation and shoot pictures, like, maybe once a year, this is amazing. This, how did this happen?" And it blew my mind that, that very same year, I think I did two more trips on my own to start shooting weddings down there. So it went from like, maybe I'll help for once a year and go down and help shoot, you know, as a second photographer to like, also had these opportunities to fly down by myself and shoot these weddings. And so, so the whole destination wedding thing for me kind of took off really quickly in that there was, there was opportunities where, where people were interested in some, some of them were like, having Phil should come down, but he wasn't available. And so I got a chance to kind of leverage off of his interest at that time. And so I'm really, I'm really fortunate for that. I think, you know, it's, it's nice to have the, you know, kind of springboard to jump off of in your, in your earlier years of shooting. I think for people who are wanting to get into it, definitely, like anything that you do for the homework to prepare yourself to do the best job that you can, you're never wasting your time, you know. Whether it be a huge wedding or small wedding, I think you know, you're never wrong if you're shooting it like it's, you know, the largest package that you've ever sold you know. Every chance to, you know, to get an amazing image, to shoot the best wedding you've ever shot is worth fighting for, and so. So part of that is really coaching the brides and grooms in terms of having a well-planned-out day. So we're really involved with the planning process for the day to make sure that they're set up for success, but also to ensure that I'm set up for success. So I know locations are important, but I think timing is equally important.

Andrew Hellmich: Just back to the same day slide show, it sounds like you put a lot of work and a lot of effort into that. You said that you bring your own projector. Do you bring your own screen as well?

Michael Steingard: I don't. At this point, I find most legitimate halls, good halls will have projector screens. I'll probably pick one up soon, just a kind of a, you know, self-setup thing. But this point, I've usually found somewhere to post it up. And, you know, even for people who are considering doing something like that, you don't have to even have a projector. You don't have to have a huge screen. If you have a decent sized laptop and you just want to set it off, you know, somewhere close to the bar as a conversation piece, people love it. They flock soon as they see images of their, the bride, who is their friend, they run to the screen. And they all kind of crowd around because they want to see, see the images. And I'm really careful to make sure that every, every image that's on there is an impactful image that will make people, you know, really get excited.

Andrew Hellmich:
So it's obviously a lot of work, and I know it's a lot of work because I've do slide shows myself, even if I'm shooting on my own, I'll try and do one when I can. So why do you do them?

Michael Steingard:
You know, I think it's, it's a two-fold thing. People love to see the pictures. You know when I'm shooting throughout the day, you know, when you turn that camera screen around for an exciting moment, everybody just, like, especially bridesmaids, they're just like, "Oh my gosh", you know, "How did you do that", you know. "That was, that was shot in this room, how's that possible? “And things like that. So there's, there's this buzz. People love to see, to see how the pictures turned out. And so I love doing it as a, as a gift for the brides and grooms. I think, I think it's exciting for them. But at the same time, you know, I'm really quite relaxed in my marketing approach. I've, I'm really of the firm belief that if you'd make something good enough, it will just leak out, and people will want it. But, you know, doing a slideshow in front of, you know, all the wedding guests, it's, it's kind of like a miniature wedding show of sorts. There's, you know, there's tons of people in the same age, age group and category, that are probably getting married the next little while. It's an awesome opportunity for them to encounter your, your pictures in a beautiful way. And it's someone that they care about. So they've, they've got, you know, a good taste of you as a person. They've, you know, they love the person they're seeing on the screen, and they're seeing beautiful photographs. So I think, I think it really works well to, I guess, just generate interest and excitement about who you are as a photographer in your area and in the network of friends that the bride would be in.

Andrew Hellmich: And which part of the night do you actually play your slideshow?

Michael Steingard: So I usually aim to have it about 15 minutes to half an hour after that the first dances are, are done. So once all the formal stuff is all kind of taken care of, and people are just hanging out dancing and having a few drinks, they usually, out of nowhere, will see this bright light show up on the wall and they'll notice it's pictures of the wedding day. And everybody kind of usually stops in their tracks and stares at the wall for the first kind of run through of the pictures, and the DJ continues to play his music. And so everyone kind of just freezes for a good five minutes or so. And once it's finished and kind of looping through again, then people kind of all shuffle back to their dancing and things that they're doing, and all the old folks sitting down at the table with nothing to do, usually just have something to watch.

Michael Steingard: So you don't, you don't find that the DJ gets upset that you sort of stolen his thunder and, you know, put this big, fancy slideshow on the wall without, without telling him?

Michael Steingard: So far so good I guess, I usually mention it to the DJ. But before we start, especially if you have to, you know, get one of the dudes with the remote control to make that, that screen kind of come down. But I think at this point, you know, as far as I've seen for weddings in my area, there's not a huge number of people that do it. And I think so people, I think people are always intrigued when they see, you know, really good pictures on the same day as the wedding. "Oh, is that from this morning?" "Oh, my gosh, that's the bride that's out in front of me." You know, I still think there's that kind of that, that fascination or excitement with, you know. I always kind of compare the slideshow thing to, like, you know, if you went to camp for a week, and, like, camp was kind of okay, but, like, they did a video during the course of the week, and at the end, you know, the grand finale, gathering of all the campers together, they play the video, and everyone like, "Wow, that was the best week of my life." I feel like, when you condense, you know, a 10 hour day into like five to eight minutes, all of like, the best parts, it's just, it's, it's got this kind of little bit of magic to it. And so that's one of my favorite things, is of the whole day is, is showing off, you know, the amazing images that, that you always hope turn out. But, you know, by the time the dinner comes around, I was like, "Oh, that one actually did turn out." "No, wow, that one turned out really well, too." And so it's a relief for me, and I think it's a relief for everybody. It's just, it's a fun, exciting thing.

Andrew Hellmich: So just talking to you for the last, you know, half hour, 40 minutes, it sounds like most of your work is either coming, you know, through Phil and the work that he's done in the past, and also through word of mouth after couples, you know after your trail, you know of happy clients that you're leaving behind you and happy experiences. Is there anything else you're doing that's bringing bookings to your business?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, I really, really heavily lean on word of mouth. I kind of invite the people that I meet along the way just add me as a friend on Facebook. So I think, you know, I think you're on my Facebook as well. And so it's not a business Facebook. It's more of a personal Facebook. So I've kind of blended, to some degree, my personal and my professional life. And I just leak out pictures all the time on my Facebook. And I find people on a regular basis just see my work. And I just love, I love just to leak out the ones that, the exciting moments that it's like, 'Wow." I've, you know, I had a wedding in Brazil last week." It's like, "I've never shot in Brazil before." "Wow", you know, those, those pictures turned out amazing here, and that turned out amazing there. So I think all of my friends who just met me along the way, or just continually, I guess, spammed with, you know, with, you know, careful, a careful selection of not too many pictures, just one here, one there, one here. Kind of just leak them out all the time. And I really believe that when it comes down to, it's like, "Oh yeah, my best friend's getting, getting married." "Oh, well", you know, the first thing is, just yesterday they saw one of the pictures that I posted, and I, and so I'm hopefully fresh on their minds still. And so I think that's, that is word of mouth, but it's, it's, you know, slightly leaning on, on the wonderful world of Facebook and social media. But in terms of fancy, you know, schemes to get tons of people to see my pictures, I think I'm, I'm pretty simple and old fashioned that way. I just share the stuff that I love to do.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it, but you can't, you can't call your photo spam. That's for sure. I enjoy seeing every single one that comes through on my Facebook feed, so it's really nice.

Michael Steingard: Well, thank you.

Andrew Hellmich: Are you ready for these 10 quick questions?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, do it.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, let's go. 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1. Go! Canon or Nikon?

Michael Steingard: I'm definitely Canon.

Andrew Hellmich: Favorite lens and why?

Michael Steingard: Oh, shoot. Oh, does have to be a quick answer?

Andrew Hellmich: Not at all.

Michael Steingard: Okay. Oh no. I think my favorite is my 45 Tilt Shift, just because it's, it's quirky and challenging, but I don't use it a huge amount, but I love it. I love it for like, landscape type, type shooting. I love it for weddings. I love leaning on my 17 to 40. I love shooting at 17 with, with some off-camera flash. I just find it pulls you into a huge, huge scene, you know, of the environment. But you slightly alter the environment by adding just a little bit of off-camera flash and changing the, the ambient feel of the outdoors, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Are you pretty careful with the 17 to keep the couple in the middle, or you happy to distort them as well?

Michael Steingard: Well, I generally use the 17 when they're not super, as long as you're not up in people's faces with the 17, which I never really do, then you're usually pretty good. I'II, definitely know what you mean about the whole warping thing. But that, I think, non-issue for me. And I love, I love the 7200 for weddings. I, you know, when it comes to ceremonies and moments where I'm a little bit more journalistic and little less hands on, I lean on that lens all the time.

Andrew Hellmich: So you got three favorites. Let's just tell me with the 45 Tilt Shift, you, is that handheld or always on the tripod?

Michael Steingard: So Tilt Shift, I'm not using this, the shift at all, but I'm using the Tilt and the rotate all the time, and it's all handheld, so it's a 2.8 lens. But when you're tilting it all the way, generally don't want to open it up to 2.8 otherwise you're, you're gonna have a very small amount in focus if you're trying to have people's faces in the picture. So tend to stop it down to more like 4, 5, 6 or something.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool, good. Mac or PC?

Michael Steingard: I love my 17 inch MacBook Pro. I can't sit still, I can't sit at a desk and edit. And so when I found out that, that they're discontinuing the 17 inches, I was really sad, and I bought the last of the, the newest 17 inch MacBook Pros. So I'm a Mac guy.

Andrew Hellmich: Has it been anything about your business that has sort of kept you awake at night and worried and concerned that things in it, 'This may not work'?

Michael Steingard: That's a really good question. Well.. I guess, I so value the interactions that you have with people that if there's ever kind of a slight misunderstanding or miscommunication, then that would, that would kind of sit with me really heavy. But I feel really blessed that, like that for the most part, the people that I've met have been wonderful, the situations I've been in have been good, and I'm really experiencing and just a whole lot of, lot of awesome stuff right now. So I fall asleep. I think the biggest thing is I fall asleep too easily, Andrew. I drive home from weddings and I am like, sometimes I got to pull-over on the side of the road and have a wee nap just because I, I just fall asleep so easy, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Very good. If you, if you were moving to Sydney tomorrow and you had to start your business from scratch, what would be the first thing you did to get things going?

Michael Steingard: Ah, that's.. well, I would probably try and get to know, I tried not, get to know a lot of people, and meet people.

Andrew Hellmich: So other photographers or businesses or who?

Michael Steingard: I didn't really dive into this a huge amount, you know. I think for me, there's, there's two huge passions in my life. There's photography, and there's music, and there's my faith, my faith in Jesus. And so I think that's a huge part of who I am. So I'd probably just meet a whole bunch of people that are, you know, Jesus loving church folk like me and just, and just go, go, start grabbing cute, cute couples and taking pictures of them on the beach and, and "Hey, say, hey, add me on Facebook and all your friends." And I'll just start taking pictures of people, you know, the beautiful places. I love road trips too, so I'd probably just drive all over the place and take pictures and hopefully just create a little bit of buzz. I spent some time in Ireland a couple years ago and met some folk over there. And I just kind of did that, that whole same thing by accident. And it definitely started to happen, the whole buzz thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Could you comfortably walk up to someone in the street and ask to take their photo?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, really quick story. But when I was in Ireland, I walked up this beautiful hill overlooking Belfast, and it was one of those perfect nights that I'm like, I wish I had a couple. And I saw this couple coming down the hill in that classic movie, like, type that, you know, slightly pushing each other, kind of, like the whole, like Disney kind of first falling in love, and this going on. And, and I walked past them, and I couldn't help but I turned, I turned around and said, "Hey guys, this is super weird. But I'm a photographer from Canada. I'd love to just take just a few pictures. Is that okay?" And they were so shocked, they said "Yes." And then I just dived into my whole kind of typical shooting routine and got some beautiful pictures of them and gave them my email address. And turns out they weren't even dating yet, but the whole thing had to spurn the conversation, which caused them to end up started dating, and I think just earlier this year they got married. So that was an amazing, quirky story that had a whole few other twists to it as well. But yes..

Andrew Hellmich: That is so good.

Michael Steingard: So I was totally glad that I turned around and, and stopped them in their tracks. And I think one, or I think one or two of their pictures is actually floating around on my website, if you, if you look through it long enough, so..

Andrew Hellmich: That's unreal. They could be thanking you for actually falling love and getting married.

Michael Steingard: Well, I had help in generating a conversation, I guess. So that's that was my role.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. What software do you use for your batching, editing, renaming and renumbering?

Michael Steingard: Yeah. So I could dive and chat about editing for so long. My approach, I've really, really pushed into the last two years of trying to leverage every ounce of juice I can get out of Lightroom. I know Photoshop is an amazing program with like, limitless possibilities, but I've have come to love what you can get out of Lightroom, as well as the overall. I feel like my overall quality is increased because, you know, I find, for me, Lightroom is so efficient in, in the editing process. So that's kind of been my journey of learning every tweak and dial that you can get to really get as much as you can out of it.

Andrew Hellmich: So you use Lightroom, you basically bring everything straight into Lightroom, do your editing there, get rid of any duds, rename and renumber everything's in Lightroom.

Michael Steingard: So on a typical wedding day, I might shoot anywhere from 1800 to 2200 pictures, 2300. I usually end up bringing that down to seven or 800 or so. Instead of deleting the duds, I prefer to just go, I kind of like, kind of like, "Oh, that's one I want to edit." And then I edit it and I rate it. And kind of just so I kind of skim across the top, versus, versus, cutting out the bottom. I just find that works, works well for me.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you watch what other photographers are doing?

Michael Steingard: Yes and no. I think for the most part, compared to most, if I was to guess, is I kind of go to the beat of my own drum a little bit. And just, you know, just venture out and see what, what I can create. I've seen what other people do. Sometimes, there's a photographer in California that I've kind of watched his work for some time, and what I loved about his work is that he was constantly innovating and doing things that no one else had done before. So I think I was, I've been inspired by, by his photography, just pushing the boundaries of what's possible to do just while still living in reality. You know, shooting through, I don't know, just, you know, whether it be, kind of using the scene in unique new way. Whether be shooting through things and still managing to steal an image through some crazy piece of glass or; or doing crazy night shots or different things like that. So there are a few people that really inspire me, and I love to get fresh little bursts of inspiration from them. But in terms of my local area, I don't think I've ever done well to do the whole contrast and compare type approach.

Andrew Hellmich: Last question for these 10. Do you have an embarrassing moment or a stuff up that you can share?

Michael Steingard: Yeah, embarrassing moment, I, I, think I can talk about a little bit of a scare in one sense. I know people have their horror stories of weddings that have gone wrong. I can say that I had a wonderful scare without being burned. I don't know if anyone's ever lost their, their flash cards before, but it's the, it's the worst feeling in the world. I think this was, this is in the earlier years I was kind of establishing myself as kind of a really reputable photographer in our studio. We had, we had probably about four or five photographers in our studio at the time, and I was shooting with this other, other photographer who had worked with the studio many, many, many years. And I was now the main guy. I was the guy who shot the girls, he shot the guys. And so this is kind of the first time that I was recognized as, as you know, really coming into my own as the principal photographer. And so I, all my wedding shots ended up on two different flash cards. And at the end of the night, for some reason, I didn't put it all, all in my computer. And so my first flash card with half the wedding somehow went MIA, went totally missing. It was one of those things that it's like, you wake up in the morning and then you feel great, and then you remember that you lost half a wedding, and then all of a sudden your stomach drops, and it's just like, "Oh my gosh, what am I going to do? How, you know, what do you say?" And the ironic thing is that was all the morning pictures of, of where, you know, the bride getting ready and stuff, all the shots that I normally wouldn't get anyways, because I wasn't the main photographer. So I thought it was quite ironic that all those pictures went missing. And I can say I'm so lucky that, you know, probably two weeks went by, you know, looked everywhere, never found it, and out of, out of nowhere, someone in the studio just randomly came across this flash card and plugged it in and said, "Hey, we see these pictures of these kind of three kind of stones, saying, love, hope and believe at the beginning. Does it mean anything to you?" "Oh my gosh, those are the wedding pictures." And so, just, just before we told the bride that her wedding pictures, half of them were gone. They just turned up last minute. So I think ever since that time, I've learned load in all your pictures, back them up twice, make sure everything is good to go before you ever go under the covers. So I've fallen asleep in, in many chairs and fully clothed with all the lights on. And, you know, woken up at three in the morning and then finished, you know, putting everything in. And I'll never, ever go to bed, ever, ever since that day without, without having everything properly backed up, so.

Andrew Hellmich: No wonder you fall asleep so easy.

Michael Steingard: Something like that.

Andrew Hellmich: Michael, it's been an absolute pleasure. How can people check out your work and, you know, connect with you too online?

Michael Steingard: Oh yeah, they can check out my work at michaelsteingard.com or you can go to the good old Facebook and plug in Michael Steingard and add me as a friend, and I will most likely say, "Yes".

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, you've been absolutely lovely. It's been real pleasure to chat to you. I'm so glad that we persisted and finally got you on and found some time after months of trying. So thank you.

Michael Steingard: Totally, you're very welcome.

 
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