135: Delane Rouse – How To Build a Successful Headshot Photography Business

135: Delane Rouse – How to Build a Successful Headshot Photography Business

Andrew Hellmich: Since starting the podcast over two years ago, I've never had the chance to interview a headshot photographer, and that changes today when I welcome one of the very best, the owner and principal photographer of the highly successful DC Corporate Headshot Studio, Delane Rouse. The way Delane describes his business is pretty simple, he says, "On a daily basis, we consistently deliver high quality corporate headshots and business portraits to the Washington DC business community. No babies, no weddings, no food, just headshots." And if you check his website, you'll immediately know he's a switched-on operator and a successful business owner, Delane, welcome to the podcast.

Delane Rouse: Andrew, thank you very much. I appreciate it. I love that introduction. I need you to do that for me every day.

Andrew Hellmich: We can do that. So, you got to tell me a little bit about your business to start with and fill the listener in. You know, when I go to your website, it looks like a massive business. Is that how it is?

Delane Rouse: Massive business. I wouldn't call it a massive business. What I would say is we photograph a lot of people here in the Washington, DC area and honestly, around the country. So, as you said in the introduction, that's really what we do. It's just corporate headshots, everything from individuals that call up, and they come to the studio, or we go to them, up to my largest client, which is a medical organization where we photographed over 3000 people.

Andrew Hellmich: Whoa!

Delane Rouse: Yeah, so I wouldn't call it massive, but it sounds good.

Andrew Hellmich: What about in the footer of your website, you list all these different locations? Are you part of a franchise, or is it a single business?

Delane Rouse: So, it's a single business. I started in photography over 15 years ago. I went pro, essentially 15 years ago, this year, to in 2000 is when I left my career in corporate America and decided to be a professional photographer. So, when you see Atlanta Corporate Headshots in Baltimore and Boston and Charlotte and they're actually 28 different websites, when you see that, that would be me and or my associate photographers or partners, that's what I call them.

Andrew Hellmich: You can't say that you're not massive, look at that list.

Delane Rouse: Essentially, we're in about 28 markets right now. Not all of the locations have studios, because some of the locations, like, when you take an Orlando or San Antonio or Memphis, those locations, we do like big events. And when I say that I mean like seminars or conventions. So maybe the American Medical Association, if they're having their conference, their annual conference, in San Antonio, we would go there. So those websites, some of them, just sit there, literally looking for, waiting for big clients. And when an individual reaches out to me, we just tell them, "Hey, in San Antonio, we're a B-to-B provider. We don't provide, you know, individual sessions."

Andrew Hellmich: Like this is really cool. You sound like a really smart operator. And if I look back in your history, you know, I see Delane Rouse wedding photographer, architecture photographer, portrait photographer. So, when did you make that transition into headshots?

Delane Rouse: So, I made the transition between like, 2006 and 2008, so prior to that, I was what many photographers are. I was just a generalist, and I used to tell people, "Hey, if it moves, I shoot it. If it doesn't move, I shoot it." And it didn't matter to me. I did a lot of sports photography. I photographed the Super Bowl, NBA All Star Game, IndyCar, NASCAR at the highest levels. I've done a lot of different things, lots of fashion photography, weddings, you name it. I photographed it all.

Andrew Hellmich: So why the change?

Delane Rouse: The main reason for the change was in 2006 I met my now wife, and she is an attorney. And what I found is that shooting a lot of sports and everything else was that I was spending all my evenings and all of my weekend’s shooting, you know, she was spending all of her days at the law firm, and then in the evening I was gone. On the weekends I was gone, and it hit me pretty quick. They said to say, "Hey, if I want to have a long marriage, I might want to be home." So, I had been shooting headshots but not specializing in headshots. And so literally, one day it hit me, and something said, "Change your domain from Delane Rouse or Delane Rouse Photography, to DC Corporate Headshots and see what happens." And it was really because I wanted to spend time with my wife. And then we got married in 2008 and then in 2010 we had our children. We have now almost five-year-old twin girls. And so, I really wanted to have a job that would kind of be nine to five that I could do during the business days, and it would allow me to be home on the evenings and weekends for the most part.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I can totally understand that. So, when you decided to make that change to have a better marriage, was that something that you discussed with your now wife, or you just said, "Right, I've got to do this." And you literally changed the website overnight and started looking for headshot work.

Delane Rouse: So, I literally made that change overnight. I was sitting at home one day, and I logged on to GoDaddy to see what domains were available, and DC Corporate Headshots was available, and I got it, and I bought a template and threw up a couple of pages for a website and said, "Here you go." And that was it.

Andrew Hellmich: Did they come running? Did the bookings come flying in?

Delane Rouse: They did not come flying in. But here's the way I remember it. It was probably two or three weeks that I got my first small office, which was maybe five or seven people. They found me somehow on Google, and then maybe within six months, I had my first what I thought was a huge office. It was a law firm. I photographed their 50 or 55 partners at a partner conference. They were a New York law firm, but they were having their partner conference in Washington, DC, and they hired me to come in and photograph their 50 people. I did that, and then within a year of that, I had my first what I call, we call it a mega firm. It was a large law firm based out of Richmond, Virginia. They had about 900 attorneys in 21 offices. And so, within a year, probably 18 months, I went from one Zs and two Zs to a law firm, mega firms with 900 attorneys.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. This sounds like an amazing ride. So, when you said they found you by Google, were you supplementing your income at this stage with weddings and portraits and all the other things at the same time?

Delane Rouse: At the beginning I was, so between 2006 and 2008 probably, I burned the candle at both ends. I was still doing all types of photography, you name it. I was still doing it, but the transition went from doing, you know, maybe one or 2% headshots, the occasional headshot, to doing 100% headshots over about a two-year period.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and were you shooting these in that studio that you owned at that stage?

Delane Rouse: I rented a studio in Washington, DC, on Capitol Hill, shared studio space. Sometimes there were as many as eight photographers that shared the studio space, and sometimes as few as two photographers, you know, that split the space up and shared cost. So that's how I started it out was just sharing studio space in a prime location, or, I should say, a good location. Everybody in Washington, DC knows Capitol Hill. So, if you say Capitol Hill, they have a good idea as to where you are.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And what about pricing? Like, how did that develop? Or how did that start, compared to where it is now?

Delane Rouse: So, pricing at the time, I was just taking a guess. I had no idea. I knew that I didn't have a lot of clients, but I never believed in shooting for free, other than my wife and maybe one or two of her friends would be the only people that I photograph for low price/free, but I just looked around and saw what some of the other photographers were charging. And I figured I needed to get clients in the door, but I didn't want to be the cheapest guy out there. I knew that. So, I would do things like I would offer a standard rate, and then when people are always trying to talk you down on your price. So instead of going down on price, I would offer them extra images, or I'd offer them an extra look. If they wanted to do one look with just a shirt and tie and jacket, I'd offer them a second look instead of going down on price. So, at the time, in 2005-2006 I might have been around $200 for a session. And you know, that was a quick 20-30, minute session. And then since then, I've raised my prices. Pretty much every year we raise prices,

Andrew Hellmich: And you don't hide your prices at all. I mean, it's very obvious on your website, you know what you're going to get for how much. Is that a strategy that you use or that you want to make it easy for your clients?

Delane Rouse: I want to make it easy for me. So, I don't believe in hiding the price, because I feel like they're going to find the price out eventually either way. So, what I wanted to do was eliminate people calling that if I'm completely out of the price range, I didn't want to even get their phone calls. If you're a college student and your budget is $50 then I'm not the photographer for you. So, I didn't want to feel those phone calls, so, and I know this is not necessarily true, but I like to think that everyone that calls me has seen my pricing, and therefore I'm in their budget. That's not really true. I know that from data. I know that's not true, but I like to think that at least.

Andrew Hellmich: I like it. So, as you put your prices up and as you gained experience, do you see a falloff in the number of clients, or do they both build at the same time as you build a reputation? Is that what you found?

Delane Rouse: That's exactly what I found, as my prices have gone up, as I put my prices out there, I've never, ever seen a drop in the number of clients. I think that, and I've heard people say before that you could literally double or triple your prices today, the best thing you want to do for your photography business is, "Hey, double your prices, triple your prices." And I'm pretty confident if I double my prices, I'm willing to guess I still make the same amount of money. If I double my prices, maybe I get half the number of clients, but I still make the same amount of money. But in reality, I think I just make more money.

Andrew Hellmich: So why wouldn't you?

Delane Rouse: I think that's the whole human nature thing. I think that's, that's what would happen. I don't know that for sure.

Andrew Hellmich: You're gonna do it a bit at a time.

Delane Rouse: And you know, that is one of the issues. Like, I think you should try it before I should try. I think some of my good friends should try. They should triple their prices. Let me know how it works, and then I come back. But there are people. There's, you know, one of my mentors, Peter Hurley in New York. Peter charges, you know, when he was doing a lot of actors, he was charging over $1,000 for a headshot session and shooting a lot of them. And I have, if you look on my pricing page, you'll see basically three levels of service. There's a session over there that's over $1,000 that's listed. And do I book that session? Not all the time, but do I book that session? Absolutely I booked that session, and every time I book it, I'm like, "Oh man, my prices are too low. I need to raise my prices." But with, I booked that session with college students before.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, I can say, have you got that session in there to make the other sessions look more attractive. Is that why that's there?

Delane Rouse: Absolutely that session is there to make my $425 session look cheap. Because if I've anchored my pricing at 425 then people say, "Well, that's the most expensive package that he has." So, then they'll obviously want to go down from there. I think the psychology is that if you have three packages, people gravitate towards the middle package. So, I needed a low-end package to get some of those people in the door sometimes. But still, it's a profitable package, but I needed that package that it still works. It includes hair and makeup and includes extra images and extra looks. And you know, we treat all our clients great, but I'll even go pick clients up. I paid for clients to get to my studio before.

Andrew Hellmich: For that session?

Delane Rouse: For that session, when I do what we call a consultation, one thing I'll ask them is, "Hey, how are you going to get to my studio?" And if they don't have a solid answer, I'll say, "Hey, we can have Uber." And I don't know if you guys have Uber.

Andrew Hellmich: There it is in, it's around now.

Delane Rouse: Yeah, so Uber is really big in DC. I'll say, "We'll have Uber pick you up." Well, I'll tell them, "We'll reimburse you for your Uber drive, you know, no problem."

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So, you are literally making it as easy as possible for that client to have their headshots taken.

Delane Rouse: Absolutely, absolutely. When they come to my studio, our entrance way is on alleyway. It's not easy to find sometimes, because my street is only one block long, so sometimes people can't find it. So, when they call me up, I'll do things like, "Hey, don't worry. We're going to come to the corner. We're going to meet you on the corner." We help them park their car. We will drive them back to the studio entrance, drop them off, and then we'll go, literally, valet park their car. And honestly, I will do that for any client. It doesn't matter whether you're doing my high-end session or my lower session. That doesn't matter to me. I want my clients to have a great experience when they do come to my studio. That's one thing that we always do.

Andrew Hellmich: This is so good. And you mentioned a mentor there, and Peter Hurley, I guess he's the most famous or the most well-known headshot photographer around. I mean, you sound so successful. Why do you still have a mentor?

Delane Rouse: Well, I think no matter where I get, what level of success I think I achieve, I think I'll always have mentors. I'll never know everything. I think that's the beginning is not thinking that I'm ever going to be the best headshot photographer. I can shoot images today, I'll look at them with the client, and I think, "Oh my gosh, this is the best image I've ever shot." And then two weeks later, I'll look at it, and I'll pick it apart, and I'll go, "Oh yeah, I could have done this, or I could have done that." And it's the same thing with business, I'll look at a business situation, or look at how you deal with a client, and I don't know it all. I have another really good mentor. Her name is Corey Howell. She's in Austin, Texas. Corey is fantastic. There are times when I will literally just call her up and say, "Corey, how do I deal with this? Corey, how do I deal with that?" "Here's what I was going to do. What do you think about that solution?" And we just bounce things off each other sometimes.

Andrew Hellmich: That is really cool. A lot of listeners, and myself included, I would go to my wife and have that discussion. So why do you go to Corey instead of your wife?

Delane Rouse: Well, I can't go to my wife because she's an attorney, and all her responses are always legal responses. I haven't said that. I have absolutely been to my wife before. I've run things by her, and I'm just never satisfied, because my wife doesn't think about customer service first. She thinks about the legal response first. So, she's not good for me, but those types of things, so if I have a legal issue, I can absolutely ask her, and she will probably bill me for that time. But if I have a technical issue, a customer service opportunity, a client opportunity, or just, "Hey, there's this new software out. Have you tried it?" I'm going to run that by another professional. That's what I want to do.

Andrew Hellmich: No, it's okay. So, with your relationship or the mentorship you have with Peter, is that something that's ongoing, or is that just a paid service? How does that work with him?

Delane Rouse: It's ongoing. I attended Peter's workshop maybe three or four years ago in New York City, when he was first kicking those off, because I loved his work. I loved the way his work looked. And more importantly for me, because I deal with so many attorneys and so many high-ranking people, I needed any way that I can make these people look confident and approachable, usually in a very short amount of time. In Peter's workshop, it was not cheap by any means, and he primarily deals with actors, but picking up on one or two little tips at his workshop has paid for itself hundreds of times over when it comes to how can I make people look more confident and more approachable, and usually for me, in like three minutes or five minutes. Because when I'm working with a CEO, when I'm working with an attorney, that's billing $800 an hour or $1,000 an hour, they're not giving me, they're not giving me two hours to shoot with them. I'm getting 10 minutes to shoot with them. So, Peter had me, we did a phone call with tons of people on the line, and we talked about business headshots, and I know I can reach out to him anytime that I have questions, anytime he'll make time. As busy as he is, he'll make time. Same thing with Corey in Austin, she'll make time.

Andrew Hellmich: So, it sounds like you've surrounded yourself with people that are always going to help you improve your business. You sound like you're always moving forward.

Delane Rouse: I'm always trying to move forward. I will always surround myself with people that are smarter than me, the people that are better than me, and they don't always have to be in photography, because this is business. This is what this is. I just happen to take pictures. I just happen to do specifically corporate headshots, but I will always surround myself with people that are smarter than me, that know more than me, that have advantages, that have been there, done that, that have succeeded, that have failed, and then done it again. That's what I will always do.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you see yourself Delane as a photographer or a businessman?

Delane Rouse: I see myself as a businessman, absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich: Did that change. I mean, in the early days, you would have seen yourself as a photographer, I'm sure

Delane Rouse: You're right. In the early days, I was going to be the next big Sports Illustrated photographer, that's what it was going to be. I was going to shoot Super Bowls, I was going to shoot championships, I was going to have covers. That's what I was going to do. And that's great, and it's great to strive for those things, but that change hit in 2006, 2007, 2008 for me, when this isn't about quote, unquote, "pretty pictures" anymore, this is about profit and loss and revenue and client retention and making clients insanely in love with the pictures that I shoot and the experience, more than anything, the experience that I give them when they step in front of my camera. Probably 80% of my clients, 70-80% they don't like being in front of my camera. They don't like being in front of anybody's camera. So that's the first thing I've got to get over. Is their objection to the camera. They walk in the studio, they say, I never had a good picture. I don't like this, so I've got to give them a good experience. And the technical aspects at this point, I can shoot great pictures with my eyes closed. I know the settings. I know where to put my lights. I know all of that. You know, I can walk my wife through that part. That's easy, but the softer skills making people feel comfortable, getting them to relax a little bit, getting smiles out of them that aren't fake. That's business to me. That's the business, and that's what makes money for me.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. So how many people, how many clients, or what percentage still ask for Delane Rouse to take their photos? Because you've got all these associates.

Delane Rouse: A lot of them. So we do run into situations where people say, when one of my associate photographers, especially my associate here in Washington, DC, you know, maybe one of my clients, you know, one of my big law firms, the big one I was telling you about, they call up and they set up an appointment. And the first few times he went in as my assistant, so he could learn the system, and, you know, learn which door to go in and how to get there, and where the setup was, and all that stuff. Well, you know, soon I wasn't going back there anymore because I was working on the business instead of working in the business so much. And I did get phone calls sometimes that would say, "Hey, the pictures are great, but we didn't get you." And so, my response would have to be, "I am glad you love the pictures." So, I had to keep harping on, "You said that you love the pictures. That's great, you know, what else can we do for you?" "Oh, well, you know, maybe he didn't talk to us as much as you did, or he didn't shift us around as much as you did", or whatever it was, and I would have to ask them very direct questions, "Do you love the pictures?" "Yeah, we do", and that wouldn't be the end of the conversation, but I have to let them know, just because it's not me doesn't mean it's not a great picture.

Andrew Hellmich: So that's been a struggle.

Delane Rouse: That has been a struggle, that has been a struggle. So now I've started to be more proactive and letting clients know. I don't want them to be surprised when I don't show up. I don't want that to happen.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, I imagine, for your business to grow, and you know, to keep expanding, you need to remove yourself a little bit more from the photography side of things.

Delane Rouse: That's exactly right. I've got to make it less about me. It'll be more about the brand. It can't be about Delane. All the reviews that are online, they can't just say "Delane was great. Delane was great." And I've had to be poignant in asking my clients, especially my commercial clients, and asking them, "Hey, if you had a good job with Pete in New York, please mention that." I had to be very specific in asking them to mention other photographers besides Delane.

Andrew Hellmich: So, are you getting on the phone and checking how shoots went and asking for testimonials?

Delane Rouse: Absolutely, all the time, almost, almost all the time. Yeah, right, and I should do it all the time. But usually, when one of my associate photographers does a shoot, I usually know how the shoot went before they're back at their home or their office or their studio. I can have a shoot that goes down in San Diego, and before Rob can get back, the client has usually reached out to me and they said something like, "Rob was fantastic, you know, it was great to work with him", you know, X, Y, Z, and that's the best thing ever. So then if they email that to me. I make sure I forward that along to the photographer, because I want them to know. I want them to have that feedback as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So, with Rob in San Diego, does he work solely for you, under your name, or does he have his own business and then contracts to you?

Delane Rouse: He has his own business, and he contracts to me. So, these are essentially subcontractors. It's a job-to-job basis, but in each of the cities, I only work with one photographer.

Andrew Hellmich: How did you find those photographers?

Delane Rouse: I stalked them.

Delane Rouse: I absolutely stalked them. So, let's say I was looking for a photographer in Sydney, Australia, I would absolutely stalk three or four photographers online for three, four months, hopefully, hopefully I have that amount of time. I would stalk them. I would stalk their work. I would see who their clients were. And I have called clients and asked the client, "Hey, I see you did a job with Andrew. Andrew did some photography for you. How was he?" And I'll tell him who I am. I'm looking to hire him. This is basically, I'm calling, you know, I'm interviewing or doing, calling references. And I'll ask them, "How was it?" And they'll say, "Oh, he's great." But I've also had clients that said, "You know, his pictures were fantastic, but he's always late, or, you know, he gets here, and he wants to leave early. He rushes people. His pictures look really good", and I'll go "Great". And I know that's not the photographer for me to partner with.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So, once you've found the photographer, so let's say Rob in San Diego, do you then have your wife draw up a contract? Because, I mean, I guess the biggest worry for you is he's going to take your clients.

Delane Rouse: It's not a big worry. Usually, I'm a pretty good judge of character. I've never had anybody take a client for me. My partners, we do a lot of things on trust. I do not have a contract. I don't have a contract with any other photographers.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, wow. What did your wife say about that?

Delane Rouse: Oh, she hates it. She hates it. She absolutely thinks I should have a non-compete, and I should have this, and they should sign it, and they should look at it every year, and all kinds of things like that. But what I do is I partner with people that after we talk, I tell them it has to go both ways. They have to trust that the most important thing is, I'm going to pay them. They gotta trust that you won't find anybody on the planet that will say "Delane has never paid me." That's the most important thing. If they're gonna do an assignment for me. They expect to get paid in a timely manner. I expect them to shoot great pictures. Treat my clients just like it would be one of their clients, turn the images over to me in a timely manner, and then I'll pay them. So, a lot of it is trust, and that's why I call a lot of them partners. They're not subcontractors at all. They're truly partners. They're people that I don't mind having dinner with. You know, when I go to Phoenix to visit, when I go to San Diego, if I'm there, you know, my Philadelphia partner, he provided the video for my wedding.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice.

Delane Rouse: So, you know, now I do have some partners that I've never met, I've never met them in real life, but I do have partners that I've met that I've gone I've spent days with. We do these little get-togethers, and I think a lot of people are calling these mastermind groups now. We'll do these mastermind groups where we get together around the country and we show each other tips and tricks, and those are my partners. And the thing is, can they use this in their own business? They could just put up another website. They could put up DC business headshots and do the same thing, or San Diego business headshots. But I trust them not to do that.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I guess if you don't have any trust, you're never going to get anywhere. Are you? I mean, you're never going to grow.

Delane Rouse: Right.

Andrew Hellmich: So, with these guys, how do you pay them? Do they just get is it 50-50 for a shoot? Or how do you structure the pay?

Delane Rouse: Every shoot is different. So, let's say San Diego, a client might call me up and say, "Hey, Delane, we've got 30 people in San Diego." Well, I put together a quote for that job, assuming the client accepts it. Then I call Rob up, and I say, "Rob, here's a shoot, here's the date and time. Can you make it first of all?" And he'll say, "Yes", you know. And then we'll negotiate the fee from there. And that's where the partnership comes in because there might be sometimes when, hey, 30 people might pay. Put it like this, when the client has not negotiated down as far. My pricing is typically based off volume. That's where the discounts come in, off of volume. The more people you send me, the cheaper it is per person. So therefore, my partner, the partner photographers, understand, "Hey, if Dylan's gonna send me 50 people, I'm gonna get paid less per person than if it was only two people." And all of my partners are really good. I have partners that sometimes they don't even ask me what the rate is until after the shoot is done.

Andrew Hellmich: That's nice, that's trust.

Delane Rouse: That's how the relationship works. And they also understand that sometimes they might be scheduled to shoot 30 people, but then the client says, "Hey, I've got five extra people or 10 extra people." And so, they know that they have to be a little bit flexible, because if the client says, "Hey, I've got 10 extra people", guess what, we're going to shoot them, because that's just more money for both of us. I do have a couple of other partners that they're very sensitive. They're very sensitive to pricing, and the problem was they didn't get it at first. They didn't realize, like, "Wow. Delane paid $1,000 for this one shoot, and then I did another shoot that had less people, and I got more money." So, they'll kind of use that less people more money as the next baseline. And then when I come back, sometimes I'm like, you know, when it's less money, okay, now it's more people and less money. Sometimes they didn't get it. And I've had to pull out invoices and say, "Let me show you why. Let me show you the business part of this. Here's why", you know. And at the end of the day, it's kind of it's not take it or leave it, because there is some negotiation. The gentleman that shoots by northeast, he shoots Philadelphia, New Jersey, New York and Boston. He's awesome. I know all I have to do is give him the information and it's taken care of. He treats clients the exact same way I would, and I know it, honestly, I have a tendency to, I throw in little bonuses for him.

Andrew Hellmich: Because he's doing such a good job.

Delane Rouse: Because he does such a good job, and at the end of the day, he's making my job easier. So, I throw in little bonuses because, one, I think it's the right thing to do. Okay. It keeps him happy, and they're unexpected, you know, like, there's times when I'll say, "Hey, man, build me an extra $100" and he appreciates it, and I know.

Andrew Hellmich: Of course, yeah, anyone would, wouldn't they?

Delane Rouse: Absolutely I do. I tell my clients that sometimes. And in fact, when I send out my quotes, there's a line in there that says, "If this estimate is too low, let me know, and I can always charge you more." And interestingly enough, I've never had anybody say, "Delane, you're too low."

Andrew Hellmich: I wonder why. Let me change topic Delane. How do your clients find you? Where are they coming from?

Delane Rouse: So, the majority of my clients, they find me on Google. I should say they find me on the internet. They are searching for something like corporate headshot, corporate headshot photographer, studio photographer, best headshot. They're searching for some term. I have a very good presence on Google organically. I have a good presence my Facebook page in the United States. And the Yelp reviews are very big, so we have all five-star ratings on the Yelp reviews. So that's how clients find me. Probably half my clients find me that way, and the other half are word of mouth. I photographed somebody at some point, and they referred me to their friend, or, even better, if it was a company. And here's a great case, I went to a law firm yesterday. When I got into the law firm, I recognized the secretary from another law firm that I had worked with for the last four or five years, and I said, "Hey, I know you, weren't you across the street?" And she was like, "Yep, I was at 2099 Pennsylvania Avenue." And I was like, "Wow!" So she's the type of person that, as long as we do a good job, when she leaves one firm and goes to another firm, she'll bring me in, when they look for a volunteer, "Hey, who wants to take on the job of finding a photographer?", as long as I've done a good job, she'll raise her hand and say, "I'll take care of that", because she already knows who she's going to call. So personal referrals are fantastic. We ask for them. We ask people specifically, "Hey, who else do you know that could use a headshot?"

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that makes sense. And I imagine that the best way to get a job is via referral.

 
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Andrew Hellmich: Last question for you, have you ever had an embarrassing moment or a big mistake that you're happy to share?

Delane Rouse: I showed up to a shoot one time on the wrong day. I walk into the law firm, I've got my backpack, I've got my whole kit. I got my rolling bag, I've got my background, I've got everything. The miscellaneous looks at me kind of funny, and I'm like, "Hey, I haven't seen you in a while. You know how things go?" And she's shaking her head, and I'm like, "What's wrong? Is the Lawyer not here?" And she goes, "We're not doing pictures today." I said, "Sure, we are." I pop out my phone, I look on my phone, and it wasn't that day. I think that was Thursday. We were doing them on Tuesday, and I don't know how it just got put on the wrong day. And so, I said, "No problem. I'll see you on Tuesday." It was pretty embarrassing. But the good thing is, just the luck of the draw that I was there before the shoot date, as opposed to, you know, walking in after the shoot date. Yes, that would have been worse having to call me up going where you at. But it was pretty embarrassing.

Andrew Hellmich: Though that's not too bad. Delane, it has been an absolute pleasure. It really has. And I gotta say that, you know, I'm so glad that I got in touch with you and you helped make this happen. So again, I really appreciate it, and it's just really good to chat to you.

Delane Rouse: Andrew, thank you for having me on this has been a pleasure. I don't think I've ever, have I ever, tried to think, this is the furthest conversation in miles. What, so what time is it for you right now?

Andrew Hellmich: It's 10am, the following day, the day after you are.

Andrew Hellmich: 10am the next day. Yeah, you're in the future. I am.

Delane Rouse: Yeah, this is something new for me. So, if you are ever in Washington DC, if you're ever anywhere close, closer than a day away, let me know. I'd love to meet you.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, same here, that's reciprocal. If you're ever in Sydney, you let me know, and I can tell you the future looks bright. It's a beautiful day.

Delane Rouse: Well, so let me tell you one other thing. I told you, our twins will be five in October, and historically, in my family, people are named after cities and states. My grandmother was named Georgia at the state of Georgia, they're all cities and states in the South, pretty much.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Delane Rouse: So, I wanted to follow that tradition with my family, but my wife hated the idea. Ultimately, we named our daughters Sydney.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow!

Delane Rouse: So, I have a Sydney, so I have a city, and the other daughter is named Simone. And I have to imagine that there's a Simone in France or something.

Andrew Hellmich: There's got to be.

Delane Rouse: I haven't looked. I've been a little too lazy to look. So, I do have a Sydney. So, I'm actually pretty close to Sydney.

Andrew Hellmich: You got to bring her out to Sydney sometime, and the family.

Delane Rouse: She'll love it.

Andrew Hellmich: She will. Delane, again thank you so much, mate.

Delane Rouse: Hey thank you, Andrew. Have a great one.