092: Kristen Kalp – How To Brand Your Photography Business the Right Way

092: Kristen Kalp – How To Brand Your Photography Business the Right Way

Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest is branding expert and founder of Brand Camp, the event and the blog. I'm talking about Kristen Kalp. And after interviewing Jenika from the Psychology for Photographers blog, and Nikki from Epic Danger Photography, who you'll definitely remember and hearing that Kristen was a massive, massive influence on their success. I've been hunting her down for this interview ever since. Kristen is, or was, a photographer. She owned a six figure photography studio and shut it down to pursue writing, and now describes herself as a writer, orphan hugger and business whisperer. She's had some massive successes and some huge stuff ups along the way, and I'm really looking forward to having this conversation. Kristen, welcome to the podcast.

Kristen Kalp: Hi there. How's it going?

Andrew Hellmich: Really good, really good. It's great to finally talk to you. Maybe we can start with you telling us what you actually do for a living now.

Kristen Kalp: Sure. So, I am a writer, meaning I actively sell my own books and programs and a ghost writer, meaning that I will completely and totally write a book and then let someone else take the credit for it, so completely behind the scenes, just doing my jam. If you ever see, if you're like, what is a ghost writer? And you ever see, like the Kardashians have written a book, The Kardashians did not write the book. A ghost writer wrote the book. So it's just the person behind that gets to play with words and doesn't take the credit for it. So that's so that's almost exclusively how I make all of my dollars, is writing and ghost writing.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so what about Brand Camp?

Kristen Kalp: Brand Camp, I would classify as my writing. The majority of what I do there is writing, and then there's some coaching as well. So hopping on the phone for 15 minute increments, an hour, a couple of hours, to really kind of dive into what it is that you want from your business and how I can help you get it, which is often just me helping you to stop lying to yourself. So, like, that's really all I do.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so how much does it cost to have you for an hour to help.

Kristen Kalp: Me for an hour is $599 USD, which is why you can break it down to 15 minutes, because often that is overwhelming to have me for an hour. Like, I'm not joking at all, like in 15 minutes, I can have you, like, on the floor crying and your eyes leak for an hour afterwards, and that's 150 bucks. And that people have gotten massive transformations from that, and then when you're ready, it's like a stamina sort of thing that you can hop on for an hour or more.

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome. I love hearing how much you charge, and I'm guessing, well, I know that you're obviously good at what you're doing, if you can charge that and make the changes that you're changing. And just from hearing from the other guests I've had on the show, the effects you've had on their life has just been amazing. So I'm really looking forward to this and uncovering what we can do to stop lying to ourselves, I guess. Now, the listeners right now on the line are all photographers, or want to be photographers, or want to improve their photography business. Now you had an amazing business. Why did you leave that?

Kristen Kalp: My dear friend Jonathan Canlas, who I ended up writing a book with, I was at his workshop, and I was watching him, and he does a film is not dead workshop for three days. And he gets everybody so excited about you're going to shoot film, and there's so many cameras and the lenses and the gear and the tripods and the monopods and all the technical stuff. And I was like, "I am never going to care that much about photography." I'm just not. I used photography as a vehicle for connection with people, and I realized that I would never be as good as a photographer as he was, and he would never be as good a writer as I was. And that was the beginning of the end. We released an eBook together. We got a book deal within a week after that, and I didn't have time to be both a writer and a photographer anymore. So it was really a matter of having to choose between what I was like, "Oh, I was pretty good at". I mean, I had a lot of fun being a photographer. And what I'm actually trained in, I have a degree in English and Education, and what I just kind of put on the back burner, like, "Oh, that can never happen." So that's what I was choosing between. And I chose for the thing that could never happen, that has happened.

Andrew Hellmich: You've gone from one creative, you know, I guess, lifestyle to another creative lifestyle. And most people are sort of leaving accountancy, you know, something like that, to go into photography and pursue that, but you already had a successful business. I mean, did you enjoy it while you were doing it?

Kristen Kalp: Absolutely. I photographed almost exclusively kids and families. And I have what my friends call the tractor beam, which is, kids will just wander up to me or near me or around me. If I was a dude, it would be really creepy. As a girl, I totally get away with it. Kids just come up to me and like, they hug me and they talk to me, and they laugh at me, and they wave at me, and I am. So being a kid's photographer was just a really natural pursuit that fell right in line. And then I got really good at doing sales, because it's really simple for me to feel people and to feel what they want, and selling pictures of kids is fairly simple once you've taken them. So I got really good at sales in that way, and I had a really good time doing it, but, yeah, I totally enjoyed it, absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so when you decided to make the change, did you just write up "I'm closing down the business." Can you talk me through that transition from photographer to writer?

Kristen Kalp: Sure, there were tearful days. I was afraid of what people would think of me. I was afraid that I would be crucified for giving up my photography business. I was afraid that all my clients would hate me, like all the standard things, just like you would have if you were transitioning from accounting, you would be scared that all your money is going to go away, and you're not going to be time, and it's not going to work, and it's going to completely fail. And you're going to have wasted all of your energy, and you're going to end up homeless under a bridge with only like day old toast to eat. Like we all know the drill. It's the same thing for everybody. So I shut down the studio, let everybody know, and then I started working on the book with John. So we went right into full production of the hardcover book that came out on Amazon about, I guess it took about a whole year. So hardcover books take a long time to do, and I transitioned to working at home and to working pretty much by myself, and my only client was more of a co-worker, and it was more virtual than in person at that point.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so did you really just close the doors to the photography studio from one day to the next, or did you wind things up over, you know, 12 months or 24 months?

Kristen Kalp: No, really. I want to commit, I really commit. I'm done. I'm really done, so..

Andrew Hellmich: So financially, were you in a place to do that?

Kristen Kalp: It was a bit of a risk, but when I'm not interested, I'm just not interested. And so I knew that I wouldn't be able to stay sustain the business, even if in theory, I had money coming in, I had lost, like, the burning desire that differentiates people from that succeed, from the people that are like, "I'll do that tomorrow. I was all, I'll do that tomorrow", once I had the option of a book on the table.

Andrew Hellmich: That's just incredible. I mean, the listener is just getting blown away now, because I know there are listeners that are in a job and they want to become a photographer, but they'd be thinking to themselves right now, Kris, and there's no way I could do what you did, and..

Kristen Kalp: Yeah, you probably shouldn't. I am by no means saying that was the smartest, best investment. Like, I'm not saying that at all. It was absolutely risky. It was absolutely terrifying. I had the support of my husband, more spiritually, emotionally than financially at that point. It was kind of like it was touch and go for a while, but it's what I wanted, it's what I wanted to do. So there's a fine line between, like, this is completely irresponsible, and between it's time to go, it's time to make the leap, and it's time to make the jump. And that line is often, people will hold on to it until it's like, well, "I have $70,000 in the bank, and I'm totally ready, and I've got my 401K all set." And I'm like, that's the opposite. That's the opposite end of the pendulum. So somewhere between, like, "Ah, fuck it" , and, "Yeah, I have 100 grand in the bank. " Somewhere in between, there, cut out, do your thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, I imagine that you would do a lot of your consulting calls with people in that position. So what advice do you give someone that wants to leave their full time job or the security job and pursue their passion?

Kristen Kalp: In an ideal world, you would have a side business that's going really well, so you wouldn't go from I have absolutely no clients, nobody in the pipeline, no idea about business, and I'm just going to start. That's a terrible, terrible kind of transition. You want to have a done deal. So anytime that you're like, "Okay, I'm ready to ramp up. I want to go from having two clients a month to eight clients a month." That means I have to go full time. There's a process that has to happen. So if you already have the number of clients that you're maxing out and you need to take the next step and quit your job. That's when to start discussing it. But if it's like, I have no clients, I just have a dream and an idea, and this is going to be great. That's when you're in really shaky territory, and it's going to be harder to get the support of your family and friends at that point, because they aren't going to be able to see what you see in terms of your dream and what you would like to accomplish. They're just going to be like, "Ah, you don't know shit, your website sucks." "This isn't going to work. I don't know how to support you." "You're going to go broke, you're going to be homeless." Like, it's make it easy for people to support you. And so part of that is holding up your end of the bargain and getting yourself a part time gig that's really successful before you step into full time.

Andrew Hellmich: So now you sound different. Now you sound like a business person giving real advice.

Kristen Kalp: Exactly, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So I thought you would just say, you can do it. Go ahead. Just take the leap. You'll be fine. So it's not like that.

Kristen Kalp: Oh no, no no, because you have to realize like we had. So when I stepped into being a writer, we had a six figure launch behind us and a book deal in front of us. So it wasn't like, oh, I mean, it was a big chunk of money that had come in that made that possible, if that makes sense.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I guess most people are making a slower transition than what you did, and I imagine that you're as busy as everyone else. And one of the biggest things I get asked from the listener is, "How do I know what to do next? How do I fit everything that I need to do in the day?" I'm seeing people on Facebook talking to each other while editing at 3am in the morning when I get up the next day. So how do people get out of that mindset and actually get things done? How do they prioritize?

Kristen Kalp: Boundaries. Get off of Facebook, it's 3am.

Andrew Hellmich: It's funny though you say that, but people don't.

Kristen Kalp: They don't, but that's not my problem. I'm telling you what to do guys. "Get off of Facebook." The thing is that the more time you give to screens, they're never going to give anything back, and they're not like it's a point of diminishing returns. And the more that you can focus in single task, it doesn't even matter what the task is, just pick a task and do it, the better off you're going to be. Because, as you know from Jenika, "Human evolution has not evolved past the point where we can we can't really multitask." We can do one thing at a time, and we can just try and switch between them really fast, and it doesn't work. It isn't effective. And the more that you can focus on this is the one thing I'm going to do, and "I'm going to stop editing at 2am instead of 3am and I'm going to be off of Facebook, and I'm not going to check Instagram. I'm going to go to sleep." Those are really responsible, simple decisions and simple ways to keep boundaries around your business that help you to benefit in the long term. Otherwise you're going to burn out and it's going to be miserable.

Andrew Hellmich: So ideally, we just turn those apps off totally and do focus on what has to be done.

Kristen Kalp: Yeah. Like I'm on Facebook for a good 10 to 15 minutes a day, it is.

Andrew Hellmich: Really?

Kristen Kalp: Yeah, really. Really, I just check in. I make sure everything's okay. I check in, there's a few coaching groups that I'm in, that I'm coaching, and then I'm just kind of with peers in and I'm out. That's it. Otherwise, it can just suck everything away from me and take me into comparison land, where I just compare myself to everyone else, and it gets kind of terrible really quickly. So my personal threshold was about 15 minutes with Facebook.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it is definitely one of those big time sucks. You start looking and the next thing, an hour's gone, if you let yourself be sucked in.

Kristen Kalp: Aha..

Andrew Hellmich: So I've been reading your book and the one that you have on your blog, on the front page there, and just reading some of your blog posts as well. I really get the idea that you have this feeling, or this idea that people aren't being honest with themselves about who they really want to be and what they really want to do. Would that be right?

Kristen Kalp: That would be right.. I think that it's easy to fall into a trap of seeing what other people are doing and saying, "I want to do that or be just like that." And it's not the case in many cases. It's just that's the best version I've seen so far, but it isn't necessarily right for you. So a lot of people want to be John Canlas, and then they get closer to him, and it's like, "Well, do I really want to have six kids, live on Hawaii, travel, get on a plane four times a week?" and then "Have to do like, oh, well, no, not that." And so there's always this kind of idealized version of someone that we have that we want to get close to. And those are really good to have heroes. But then there's also "Okay, that's not me at all." Those parts don't speak to me. That's not interesting to me. That's just not going to happen, especially when it comes to clients, like I couldn't take John's clients for 10 minutes. I would punch them in the face, right? So you have to acknowledge like, they're not my people, and it's hard for people to say they're not my people. So the common thing that I come up against is people that are especially if they're just new to photography, they will take anyone's money, just anybody that pays them, is great. And then they get pushed around, they get mistreated. They're like, "I hate this. What happens? "And it's because you're not driving with your people. You're trying to drive with, jive with everyone, and that just doesn't work. So the more clear you can be about who it is you want to work with from the beginning, and the more honest you can be about who you are, because your ideal client is just you, but with one slight tweak, which is they need what you have to offer, the happier you're going to be in the long term. So I think people often lie about, "Yeah, yeah love my clients, yeah, yeah, yeah."

Andrew Hellmich: Well, I honestly think that I'm in that first group of people that you talked about. I mean, if I've got a portrait promotion going on, I'm happy for anyone to take me up on that offer to have their photos taken. So how do I choose who my perfect client is because I'm happy, you know, with whoever pays me at the moment, really.

Kristen Kalp: Yeah, so tell me about your.. tell me about your favorite client ever on the whole planet.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I guess you put me on the spot here. But I would say a client that was just totally into the actual photography process, was into the shoot, was comfortable in front of the camera, that let their emotions go and just enjoyed being with their family and letting me be a part of it.

Kristen Kalp: Okay, so if we're talking about a family shoot, it's a mom, so tell me her name.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, wow.

Kristen Kalp: Don't make it up. Don't make it up. Tell me like an actual, real physical so what I'll do is by allowing me to coach you for like five minutes to readers will see how simple it is to get to the heart of this. If that's okay with you.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. Okay, let's do a wedding client.

Kristen Kalp: Okay.

Andrew Hellmich: Is it okay?

Kristen Kalp: Yeah, hit it. What's her name?

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, man, so you put me on the spot again. I've got to give this some thought.

Kristen Kalp: No, the first answer is the right answer. Who is your favorite, favorite?

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, let's say Elise.

Kristen Kalp: Okay. So how old is Elise?

Andrew Hellmich: She.. I think is about 25-26.

Kristen Kalp: Okay, and where was her wedding? Like the venue?

Andrew Hellmich: It was in Fiji.

Kristen Kalp: Nice. Okay, and how many people were at the wedding?

Andrew Hellmich: About 30.

Kristen Kalp: Okay. And what was your favorite part of the whole day?

Andrew Hellmich: Photographing just the two of them together. And the husband, Ali, is into photography, and he was excited about the whole process, and she was feeding off that. And it was just, it was awesome.

Kristen Kalp: Okay, and tell me a little bit about them when they are not in Fiji. When they're just at home, give me some characteristics. Are they, they're super trendy, they're kind of hipsterly, they're quiet, they're loud, they're outgoing, they go clubbing. What do they do?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, no, I think they're certainly very comfortable in their own company. They are, I was going to say normal, but they're certainly not loud. Ali takes the lead and Elise sort of feeds off him. They laugh a lot, and, yeah, I think they're just really enjoying being together and living life. Is that enough?

Kristen Kalp: Fantastic, that's close. Can you give me on a Friday night, where would you find them?

Andrew Hellmich: I think Ali would be out photographing a sunset, and then they'd be sitting down watching videos together and having a wine.

Kristen Kalp: Awesome. Okay, so if instead of coming to your website and saying like "You're getting married, hooray!"; "Your bride would see you're comfortable in your own skin, and the two of you laugh a lot together. You genuinely enjoy one another's company, and you're planning a destination wedding. You're both into photography, and you're excited about the whole process of getting married, as well as having a bit of wine on a Friday night. Reach out and contact me when you need a photographer." That sort of a thing is going to be super clear and specific. I call it playing psychic. It sounds like, "Oh man, like this guy knows me." And it's like saying you're comfortable in your own skin, you enjoy each other's company, you enjoy photography. You're planning a destination wedding that can apply to thousands of people on the planet at the same time. But it's going to feel like, "Oh my God. This like, this is it he knows me so well."

Andrew Hellmich: Kristen, holy shit. I can't believe you just did that. I'm listening back. I think I want to book that dude.

Kristen Kalp: Yes. So that is the concept of playing psychic. It's just if you tell your clients exactly who they are, they will respond, and they will become your clients.

Andrew Hellmich: Can anyone do this themselves? Any photographer listening?

Kristen Kalp: Absolutely. So you just want to be as specific as humanly possible. So where you resisted me was being specific because it felt like, "Oh, that's going to be too specific." And it's really not, because across the board, you're going to find that your people are really comfortable. They're willing to let go in front of you, they laugh. They're really, truly in love. We're not talking like I'm marrying you for your money or because you're just so hot I can't stand it. When you have a destination wedding, you're talking about travelers and world travelers. You can absolutely play that up and just enjoying the process of photography, because they value what you're doing, and then they enjoy having a glass of wine. It's like, well, who doesn't? But, you know, I mean, you're going to push away the teetotalers and the people that are super stiff and rigid that don't drink at all, and that's a really good thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so the more detail I gave you, the more you included.

Kristen Kalp: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm more scared now than you just said I'm gonna be pushing the teetotalers away. So yeah, should I be doing that?

Kristen Kalp: Yes, do you want to shoot tea to, have you ever been to a dry wedding? Oh, my God.

Andrew Hellmich: I mean, that was one example. But I mean, what about if I don't want to only be shooting destination weddings, and I include a lot of stuff about that. Is that a bad thing?

Kristen Kalp: So you could do one of two things. You could say you're planning a fantastic destination wedding, or a wedding close to home that feels like and then pick a destination that you feel would be appropriate for everyone. So there are ways to tweak it, but I find that most photographers want destination weddings and don't know how to attract them. And the easiest way is to say like, "You're planning a destination wedding. Oh, yeah."

Andrew Hellmich: That's pretty obvious.

Kristen Kalp: It feels obvious, but it's not. It's like, "Oh well, that's is that?" All I have to do is say it like, yes, absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And when you do this with your clients, do you find that you're getting the same or a similar response from most clients, or is it different for everyone? When you ask them who their favorite client is, do you get a similar description?

Kristen Kalp: Generally, there will be a thread that ties everyone together. So if we're talking about like, I don't know whether Elise is a blonde or a brunette. That's not a detail that matters to me. The more that you can talk to Elise's spirit and to the spirit of the traveler, it's going to be very different from the person that's like you grew up in Baynesville and you've never left in your whole life for more than a day. Those are completely different human beings. And generally, if you're speaking to one, you're not speaking to the other.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, all right. Like I said, this will work then for portrait photographers, just as well as wedding photographers.

Kristen Kalp: Absolutely. Typically with portrait photography, you're going to be talking to a mom and so, especially like, if we're family, so you are, let's think of some things that are really simple to use. You love your family, but sometimes you don't like them, and you're really worried about the portrait shoot that it's going to go terribly wrong. Your husband has no interest in doing this, but it's all you want for Christmas. And so you need someone to make the process fun, simple and easy. You need someone to make you laugh in front of the camera. You need someone that knows how to work Photoshop so that your flaws don't show, and you need someone that's going to give your kids cookies at the end to celebrate. Something like that feels completely, completely like, "Oh my God, she knows me", and it's completely generic.

Andrew Hellmich: You're amazing. You really... you are amazing. Swear words, you're throwing a few swear words out there. I know that some certainly Nick you've had a big influence on Nikki, because she's got a hell of a lot on her website. Some of the response that I got after I interviewed Nikki was, there's no way she should be having those swear words on there. That's just detrimental to her business.

Kristen Kalp: Never. She's more booked than she's ever been like, I've seen her financials. People come on now. Because the thing is that the people that she wants to attract are not at all put off by that. They're like, "Oh, I'm it's like, when you find Nikki, it's like coming home." So the people that won't share her work, because there's the word damn in it, are the people that she does not want money from, regardless, like, no matter what. And so the people that are put off by my dropping the F bomb should stop listening, instead of criticizing me any further, number one. And number two, realize that, like, I'm just not your people. It's okay. There is no rule that says that we have to be best friends forever, because I'm on this podcast. Like, that's just not the case. And so I encourage everyone to be a flavor, to be a really strong flavor. I am human cilantro. People tend to love me or hate me. There's really not of in between, and I encourage that in other people as well. It makes it so much simpler for your business to be like people love you, they're with you forever, or they completely dislike you, and that's it, and they go away, instead of that awkward in between where you try to make it work, but it doesn't work. It's like a boyfriend that you're like, "He'll do", be like. No, like you want to be madly in love or just broken up. That's it. And so the same thing, I think applies in business and when you're dealing with kids photography, Nikki's pushing the line absolutely. I find that interesting, but I don't find that off putting. She isn't like, "Fuck your fucking kids. You can fucking fox like"..

Andrew Hellmich: Geez.

Kristen Kalp: She's pretty soft. She's pretty soft about it, and she's remember that she's talking to parents like she's talking to moms that know exactly what it's like to have kids that have one or two, typically not more than two, with her, and that are just like her. I mean, it's not like we don't know these words as adults, and so we're allowed to use them.

Andrew Hellmich: I want to come back to that. You just said typically two. So do you know Nikki that well that she prefers to be shooting only with two kids rather than more?

Kristen Kalp: I do, and that's a preference of hers. That's just a preference of hers, which is totally okay, like, she does not want to be shooting the seven kids.

Andrew Hellmich: So you can even be that specific.

Kristen Kalp: Absolutely, because, like, she does not want to be shooting the seven kids, like, no, like, the Mormons will run far, far from her beforehand.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I don't think I'll even get to the seven kids and we get to the swearing.

Kristen Kalp: But yes, you can absolutely be that specific. You can say, you know, "I just shoot newborns." I just shoot and so and have preferences be like, totally, will I shoot your view of your four, you know, your four kids? Fine, it's no problem. It's just that I think knowing where your sweet spot is and then really exciting people about getting behind your sweet spot is a whole lot easier than just saying, "Oh yeah, I do everything." Like, well, it's harder for people to get behind that.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I get that. I do. Okay, so what about if you're going to a party, or if you're going to a business conference? Or podcast obviously, isn't a good example, because I've heard how you talk. Is there a different Kristen at each of these different things? Like, do you curb your language when you'd say at a business conference.

Kristen Kalp: No, sir.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay.

Kristen Kalp: It is in my contract that I'm allowed to swear on stage if I'm being hired to speak.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. Because for me personally.. for me personally, I feel like if I go hang out with my mates, then yeah, there will be some swear words coming out. But when I go to write a swear word, say into my one of my blog posts..

Kristen Kalp: Ahm.

Andrew Hellmich: It almost hurts me, like it doesn't feel right to have it written, but I don't mind saying it if I'm in a conversation, what should I do?

Kristen Kalp: I think that's a cultivation of your voice, that in some cases, you're going to have different voices in different places, and that's totally okay. We all have these different personas we kind of put on and shift into, I am very conscious of that. If you see me in front of my mom, you will be like, "Who is this person?" Like, "What has happened there?" So in the presence of elders, people I really, really deeply respect, my mom, things like that, I will completely switch it up and there'll be no swearing. There's also no off color jokes. I generally just lose my personality, it goes away completely. But everywhere else, I've been really careful about keeping it really consistent and just allowing myself to be me. So that when people come up to me these compliments that they give, it's really strange one, they're like, "You're just so you." Because that's what I help people do. I help people say, "Okay, where's the line between who you are on an everyday basis and who you are in your business, and how can we blur that line." Not to get all Robin thick on you, but we want to get to a place of you're the same, you everywhere, because that's what the world needs. We don't need more imitations. We don't need more people that are kind of trying to rip off the big names. We need people that are like, "I am so me, that even if you try and copy me, it's impossible, because I'm just me, and nobody's gonna be better at that."

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, that's so cool, and I can understand how you can do that with words, and the way you just did it for me. Can photographers do that with their photography too?

Kristen Kalp: Absolutely. So the goal, if you're a photographer, is for me to be able to look at your image and know that it's yours, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that's her work or that's his work. And until you are that good, you are competing with a sea of photographers that are just kind of circling around the drain of trying to be like everybody else. So, embrace the shots that are like, you know what, the I don't know if the client will like this, but I love this, so it's going on the website. And I don't know if the client will love this, but I love this. I'm gonna put on the blog and I'm gonna submit it for competition. That's where your voice begins and ends with the point where you are riding your own edge.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so what about for the photographer that is circling the drain? Is a good way to differentiate themselves at this stage to do that with words? If they can't do it with their photography at this stage?

Kristen Kalp: That's one way to do it. Another way to do it is to hop on video, so that we have as much of your voice as possible. A third way is to get off of Instagram, Facebook, blogs, just generally social media, because you can't cultivate your voice while you're busy listening to 3000 voices. It's like trying to write a song while you're listening to an endless playlist. It doesn't work.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So they're just too many influences that are.. so we're not getting the real person.

Kristen Kalp: Yeah. Like, if you want to be Bono, you cannot just sit around listening to YouTube videos for the next three days and then try and write a song at the end. You will be so saturated with Bono that your voice has just disappeared entirely. And I think that's a really common thing with any artist, not just photographers. That the more you seek yourself in these works that you find amazing and thrilling and wonderful, the harder it can become to create your own work, because you're instantly going to be comparing and you're not Bono, not yet anyway.

Andrew Hellmich: So how do you use social media then? Because, I mean, everyone believes it's so important to the success of their business, it's difficult to post something and then not get involved in the conversation, following or follow and like and share other people's work.

Kristen Kalp: Absolutely. But what if you started following and sharing complimentary businesses versus the same businesses? So if you are, let's say that you're based in Sydney and you are a wedding photographer, follow the florals, follow the caterers, follow the event designers, follow the stylists, follow the local fashion houses and share their work. Follow the local paper, follow like whatever your interests are. Go see bands, go to live events, share those so it's not don't use social media. You should not be following every single photographer that's in Sydney. That's your competition on social media. That's going to destroy you.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, all right, that's huge…

 
Sign up to listen to the Premium Version at https://photobizx.com/premium-membership
 

Andrew Hellmich: Is there any other glaring things that you notice when you go and check out other photographers websites, in particular, even any websites and you think, "Geez, they could be doing that better."

Kristen Kalp: There are some really, really simple things to do. First, and most importantly, I want to know where you're located immediately. This is not an optional thing. I want to know where you're located, and I want to know what you do and what you offer people. So if I have to click like seven times to figure out that you're actually a life coach located in Phoenix who only does workshops in the desert, that's really tricky for me. I shouldn't have to work that hard to get the information. That's pretty basic, if that makes sense.

Andrew Hellmich: It does, it does.

Kristen Kalp: So that's a really simple tweak. Just include your location, any sort of relevant contact information, and tell people what you do. So if you can have a tagline that's really great. If not, you want to get people to know your specialty, or what it is that you're really, really good at, really quickly. And then, if you would like to, grab Go Your Own Way, which is the book that you referenced earlier, I can tell you all about cotton candy, which is what I call when you give someone a reason to opt into your email list. So if you're like, "I have a subscription up, and it says, subscribe to my newsletter, and nobody's ever put their email in." There's a reason for that. Nobody ever puts their email into that. And so you want to make a reason for people to opt in that's really interesting, and then that serves your business for the long term. And so I will totally walk you through that. Go, grab, Go Your Own Way at brandcampblog.com, it's totally free.

Andrew Hellmich: I was reading the cotton candy chapter just last night, and it made total sense. And I'm surprised at how many photographers don't make use of an autoresponder or an email opt-in.

Kristen Kalp: They don't. And it's even in people to take my classes, like people pay, you know, hundreds of dollars for my classes, still don't do it. I recently reviewed a bunch of websites, and it was like, cotton candy, cotton candy, cotton candy. So you would really be ahead of the eight ball if you would just take my advice, which is totally free. Grab a copy of Go Your Own Way and actually implement it and do it.

Andrew Hellmich: It's an awesome book. I'm really, really enjoying it, and you make total sense. You know, just like you have today, it's been a real delight, Kris, and it's been fantastic to have you on. I'm so glad that I persisted in chasing you and finally getting on the show. So the best place for people to go and check out you and what you're doing is the brandcampblog.com

Kristen Kalp: Yep, brandcampblog.com. is where you can get to me, and if you want to email me, I'm at [email protected]. I am happy to respond to emails of any kinds, if you have any questions, and you can grab your free book and hang out. And I would love to hear what you think of any and all of what we've talked about today.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. And just before you let you go, is the Brand Camp workshop, is that what you call it, the live event, is that still happening every year?

Kristen Kalp: That is a one-off. So that's not happening again, as far as I know, at least not in 2015. So we shall see. But you know, you never know. So you want to be subscribed for updates, and I will certainly let everyone know if that changes.

Andrew Hellmich: So you get the updates and the cotton candy when they subscribe.

Kristen Kalp: Absolutely, yeah, the free copy of Go Your Own Way when they subscribe. And it's really great. It's a whole book. It's like 60,000 words, like it's a legit I could have published it, and instead, I chose to give it away for free, because I love people sort of thing. So go get it, damn it.

Andrew Hellmich: Kristen, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Kristen Kalp: Thank you.