Although gay weddings may not be legally recognised in your local area, there will still be a call for wedding photographers that have experience working with gay couples as they celebrate commitment ceremonies. If you're of the opinion that photographing a gay union will be exactly the same as a straight wedding, you're in for an episode of learning. Thea shares some great ideas on the right language, how to work and pose couples plus some fantastic marketing ideas for this growing genre of wedding photography.
In addition to Thea's great advice, you'll hear just how much I struggle with what is right and wrong when even discussing the topic of gay marriage. I definitely learnt a lot from this discussion, I hope you do too.
Here's some more of what we cover:
I'd love to think that following this episode, that you'll be in a much stronger position to target, attract and market to same sex couples looking to book a wedding photographer. There are strong signs that this is a growing segment in the wedding photography genre and being prepared for this growth should see you as a market leader if you follow Thea's advice.
What's on Offer for Premium Members
If you're a premium member, you should have received an email with links to your version of this episode where you can hear lots more implementable content from where we dive deeper into some of the earlier topics plus some new ones that I pushed hard for that include:
What is your big takeaway?
Following this interview, I'd love to know what your biggest takeaway is – what is the one thing that you'd like to implement or learnt from what was shared? Let me know by leaving your thoughts in the comments below.
If you have any questions that I missed, a specific question you'd like to ask or if you just want to say thanks for coming on the show, feel free to add them below.
If you'd like an easy way to show Thea your thanks, and support for the show at the same time, click the link to create a tweet and automatically let her know you're listening: https://photobizx.com/tweet
iTunes ratings, reviews and Shout-Outs
Each week before recording the podcast I check iTunes for any reviews and each week I'm excited to see what you've had to say about the podcast. This week I was blown away to see one fantastic review! Thanks you so much to:
Guil Durant of Durant Photography in Australia.
Sincerely, thanks so much for your ratings and reviews, I appreciate the time you've taken and it's a big help for the show. It's these iTunes reviews that make a big difference to the podcast being ranked well and found in the iTunes store. If you have the time and are happy to leave an honest rating and review, head over to iTunes.
Don't feel your comments have to be long, involved or gushy, an honest opinion is all I ask. Don't be shy about leaving your business name in the review either – that way I can add a link in the show-notes and show my appreciation with a proper thanks and a Google loving back-link to your website.
Listener Questions
Each week I receive a ton of emails form listeners that include comments, feedback and questions. Some are specifically about the podcast but a lot are business related. I think it'll be a good idea to answer the questions I feel are relevant to many listeners on the show and I'm kicking that off today with two questions.
1. Andrew Szopory writes – Today I made my first video that I plan to upload to YouTube and blog on my site. My question is, do I need to have this transcribed for Google, index it and have it show up in the search engines? From Andrew Szopory
2. Anais Chaine writes – I'd like to hire a photographer to shoot under my business name but have a few questions:
– how much I should pay them?
– should edit their RAW files or have them do it?
– what sort of contract do I need in terms of usage of the images?
– what about insurance?
Tune in to hear my thoughts and answers to both these questions in todays episode.
Get in Touch, Ask a Question or Leave a Voicemail Message
If you'd like to get in touch, ask a question or make a suggestion for the show, you can email me andrew@photobizx.com, find me on Twitter https://twitter.com/andrewhellmich or on Facebook at https://photobizx.com/facebook – I'd love to hear from you!
Links to people, places and things mentioned in this episode:
Capturing Love: The Essential Guide to Lesbian and Gay Wedding Photography (Book)
Equipment
Canon EF 50mm f/1.2 L USM Lens
That's it for me this week, hope everything is going well for you in life and business!
If you've been enjoying the podcast, I'd love for you to tell another photographer about it – it could be in a Facebook Group you're a part of, a photography forum, with a photographer friend or on twitter.
If you do have a twitter account, simply click here: https://photobizx.com/tweet or use the share buttons below.
Thanks and speak soon
Andrew
Shouldn’t there also be an episode on this podcast for how to say “no” to a gay couple who wants you to shoot their wedding?
A Photography Studio in New Mexico USA was approached by a gay couple to shoot their gay wedding and the owners said no. And so the gay couple took them to court and it lasted 7 years and the New Mexico Supreme Court finally ruled in favor of the gay couple.
Here’s just one of many links on the subject….
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/court-holds-that-wedding-photographer-cannot-refuse-service-to-gay-couples/
So…what if I don’t feel comfortable shooting a gay wedding?
Does that make me a hater?
Does that make me homophobic?
Or does it just reaffirm that I have a right to my own opinion?
The BEST thing to do is to just say you’re booked for that day OR don’t give a reason at all as to why you “can’t shoot their wedding.
The mistake (and I hate to call it a mistake) that the studio owners made in the referenced case above was that they actually gave a reason that had to do with their moral standards as to why they couldn’t shoot the gay wedding. And that is what hurt the pride of the gay couple and that is from where the militant gay couple based their action. So Photographers, “just say no” and leave it at that if you don’t want to shoot a gay wedding.
And hey, if you do want to, do it. That is YOUR prerogative. No one should judge you. Not even me.
Just like how I don’t want to be judged for NOT shooting a gay wedding.
Now go ahead and let the “hater” comments fly. I’m used it.
Surely you don’t need an episode or advice on how to say “no” to any couple about photographing their wedding? I think you’ve added your own answer in your comments anyway.
I’m pretty sure that if you don’t feel comfortable about photographing any couple and make that clear to them, they wouldn’t want you as their photographer anyway. Why would they risk having you make a mess of their photos?
Of course, there are different ways to approach the way you communicate your feelings to the couple and if you’re sensitive to them, their views and feelings and YOUR ability (or lack of) to produce a great collection of images, why would there be any follow up troubles?
Add to your wedding agreement/contract that you reserve the right to turn down and commissions as you see fit if you’re really concerned.
I certainly don’t hate you or your views. I’m surprised, happily so, that there have been very few comments like yours or in response to yours.
I am curious though, why you felt the need to use a pseudonym?
The thing is Andrew, here in the US its a bit different. We are basically being bullied into ‘accepting’ even if we do not agree. A couple that owns a marriage chapel in fact, ordained ministers are facing jail time and a $1000 a DAY fine until they agree to wed a gay couple. Its sickening to me that it’s okay to go against everything that us Christians are raised and taught to believe in, Gods Word, but it isn’t okay for the opposing side to have ANY rights at all. I think that is where the problem lies. If you ask around, the majority of Americans, like myself, could care less, you wanna marry a dude, fine, whatever. But like you said, WHY ASK a vendor that you KNOW does not want to, furthermore, that you KNOW is a Christian and that is why/religious believes, to do anything for your wedding when you know they do not or will not provide their whole heart into the work. If you ask me its like forcing Muslims to eat Pork because, well, it tastes good and shouldn’t they eat it, there’s no reason for them NOT to right? smh. Its all good until someone disagrees with this gay movement, honestly I wonder where the straight communities rights are anymore. Anyways, I expect full fledged comments on how ‘ignorant’ or ‘non tolerant’ I am, and thats fine by me, bottom line is that I just wanted to let you know that things are a bit different here. We can’t put stuff like that in our contracts when ordained ministers are even being forced to wed gay people. And Im sure the person decided to use a pseudonym because it can be traced back to their business. For me, that’s fine, I’m a Christian and I have to take a stand for what I know is wrong.
Hope that helps you understand a bit more though. have a blessed day
Interesting views Tara, thanks for adding them.
I don’t agree with everything you’re saying but I do feel a business owner should have the right to decline business.
I whole-heartedly agree with you. I will forever be ‘busy’ on any day asked of me to do so as well
Really enjoyed this episode Andrew. I have just booked my first same sex wedding for next year… it was one of my goals for 2015 and I hope to grow this section of my business in the years to come. Theas interview was really interesting and very helpful … lots of little comments that I wouldn’t have thought of and I will definitely be buying the book. Thank you again for all of your hard work Andrew. John.
Hey John – good to hear about your booking and that you found this interview helpful. Thea definitely brought up some things that I was not and would not have ever been aware of, particularly if attempting to attract the business of same sex couples via my website.
Another great interview, and this one actually came 2 weeks after my very first wedding shoot – a beautiful same sex wedding in Portland, Oregon.
As always, it’s so useful to get into the nitty gritty and Andrew asks the questions that we are all thinking of as we listen.
Yes, there are elements of political correctness and sensitive feelings involved in a same sex wedding, but what I have found – and what really came across from listening to Thea – is that people are just people. Gay or not, they just want (and deserve) to be treated with respect and have the most important day of their life recorded for ever. It’s really no different to any other wedding with a ‘traditional’ couple. My first wedding will probably end up being one of the most beautifully touching I will ever be lucky enough to photograph.
Maybe if the first commenter actually provided a name instead of hiding behind a generic link, I could take what he said a little more seriously.
Thanks Thea and Andrew! 😉
Hey Damian – loved reading about your first experience with the sae sex wedding.
Did you discuss the location shoot with your couple and were they happy to be photographed in the same places that you would normally use for your wedding photography? Thea mentioned that this was one area that tripped her up in the early days by not considering how the couple felt being photographed in a public and busy park. It’d be good to hear more about your experience.
How did you find posing your couple and was that soothing you discussed beforehand or at an engagement style shoot?
Thanks for adding your comments and compliments – they are both, very much appreciated!
The guys were having a pretty small scale wedding, outside at a gorgeous botanical garden and old house in Portland. It was so small that they actually set up and broke down the whole wedding decor / tables / chairs etc themselves with their families. (Which made for some awesome pics btw…)
They only had the venue for six hours and wanted to spend that time with their guests, enjoying the occasion rather than disappearing off to take photographs so… we actually did a ‘pre-wedding’ shoot a few days earlier.
I took the Steve Saporito advice, and met with them a couple of months earlier for a chat. (Over beer and thai food) I asked them tons about themselves, how they met, what they loved about each other and what really makes them ‘them’ – And it turns out they are huge comic book / video game geeks.
We ended up taking the ‘pre-wedding’ photographs at an awesome retro video game arcade that they love in Portland. They wore their wedding outfits and we just hung out and played video games as I shot. It turned out AWESOME! Like an engagement shoot but better. 😉 I will share a link here when the photos are done…
One of them was definitely a little more uncomfortable at first – I took a few pics outside the arcade in the street of them together – but I just tried to make them laugh and feel as comfortable as possible. Once we went inside to the place that they loved to go together, they felt a lot more comfortable and they almost forgot i was there – I got some really fun candid shots of them just relaxing and hanging out together. And their outfits match with the wedding day so the whole thing hangs together really nicely. In terms of posing, i really just told them where they needed to stand in the shot, I let them interact / hug / kiss etc exactly how they would naturally.
I would say get to know your couple, as you usually should, and you’ll get a sense of the best way to capture ‘them’. Get to know the location / venue that the wedding is taking place at and let them know where exactly you will probably take their photographs – maybe they haven’t realised that it will be public / busy.
I definitely recommend the pre-wedding shoot somewhere they love if that’s something that’s possible for both parties, and something they might be open to. We weren’t rushed, there was no pressure and then they got to enjoy the wedding without worrying about posing for a ton of photos and ignoring their friends.
Cheers!
Great advice and a great account of what sounds like a fantastic shoot Damian.
I love the idea of getting to know your couple better before the day. I’ve done something similar recently with a few couples but recorded the conversation while asking about their family, bridal party and each other. I went on to have the audio transcribed and have used quotes and references from the conversation in their wedding albums. It worked beautifully!
I’d love to see your post on the engagement shoot once you have it ready – make sure you link to it here when it’s live.
Great advices thank : I’m doing my first gay wedding in December so that will help 🙂
Thea and Andrew,
This episode was very eye opening. The posing tips Thea shared are very helpful. We have a same sex shoot involving several “mini ceremonies” at the end of this week and we are very grateful for the insight.
Thea’s comments on wedding traditions have also inspired us to include our thoughts about modern wedding ceremonies in an upcoming blog we are writing. This podcast rocks!
Thanks for the great content! Great episode!
Jamie and Natalie
Thanks Jamie – awesome to read how much your taking from the interviews and even better to see you taking action! You guys rock!
Andrew, thank you for your recent interview with Thea. I was behind in my podcast and when this particular one came up, I was very eager to hear it.
As a gay man who has photographed dozens of same sex weddings (before they were even popular, legal or widely accepted and using film), I totally ralated to Thea’s comments and suggestions. It was very refreshing to listen to her stories and her methods of dealing with her gay clients. Though I don’t really shoot weddings these days as my business focus has shifted, what I do shoot is also an extremely niche market that sometimes (not always) caters to the gay market. This is all fine by me as I totally enjoy what I do and laugh as I drive to the bank. My clients tend to be really cool, mostly wealthy and I produce a product that they love and makes them feel great. I travel the world for my business and I sleep well at night knowing that my clients are getting their money’s worth. It sounds like Thea is doing the same.
The folks above who choose to not work with gay clients because of their religion or customs, that’s cool because they (the potential client) can contact Thea and she will be happy to document their wedding and love for each other. Thea understands the vast and powerful economic potential of the gay market and sounds like she too enjoys what she does for a living. You go girl !
Andrew, thank you for yet another excellent interview !
Noel