031: Jeff Voon – Do It Differently for Wedding Photography Success

031: Jeff Voon – Do It Differently for Wedding Photography Success

Andrew Hellmich: All right, I'm really excited to have Jeff Voon, all the way from Malaysia on the podcast today. Jeff is a highly credited, amazing photographer. He's got so many awards from all around the world. He conducts workshops. He teaches people how to use Lightroom and Photoshop. His post processing skills are amazing. But today we're here to talk about business, branding, marketing, just like we usually do on the podcast. And Jeff has happily come on and said that he's an open book, and he's happy to share anything and everything so we can help improve our businesses. Jeff, welcome to the podcast. Yeah.

Jeff Voon: Hi, Andrew, thank you so much.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, it's a pleasure.

Jeff Voon: Just, we just go, go, go, go to any, any of the questions first.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, for sure. So would you want to tell everyone first of all, how many weddings a year that you shoot and how much you charge for your weddings?

Jeff Voon: Okay, can I share my experience first, my past few years?

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. Yeah, go for it.

Jeff Voon: Okay, last time, almost every day I have the shooting, I have the assignment, wedding assignment. So the business, you get more, the money, you get more. But a lot of complaint. Why we have to complain? So I just shared about this part. A lot of the photographer, they will just target more business, maybe just for their life, or just want to promote themselves. So they just keep on dropping their price to target more business. But last time, the last few, few, few years, I also did it like this. So for example, for the December is the peak season, from day one until day 13. The I mean the end of the month, every day I have a shooting. But the problem is the first day customer at the middle of the month, then they will chase against my photo, but I don't have the time to do the post-processing or the editing. Then just keep on like this, since the photography industry is same like the service line is the same like the service industry, so we just need to provide a very good or excellent service. But if you have lots of job, but you don't have the good service, eventually you will fail in this industry. So after that, I just find some of the, I mean, the method to improve myself. Now's the day, I just have limit myself one month, just only five job. Then the price is quite high. I want to brand myself as LV or Prada or Gucci, something like this, we just sell, I mean, the quality of the photo, the quality of the service, but we are not going to sell a lot of the business, like Target, a lot of business, just for the money. Then we just, I mean, ignore all the service, the quality of the photo. So this is what, what I just go through by these few years. So I need to share with other people, or other newbies. For the photography, it's better we target to limit ourselves to few jobs, but we provide a better service.

Andrew Hellmich: And then charge more.

Jeff Voon: Charge more, charge more.

Andrew Hellmich: So these days, if you're doing five weddings in the month, now, are you, are you doing weddings every month of the year, or only in, you know, November, December?

Jeff Voon: No, every month. Every month, yeah, once I, how I'm going to increase my price, I will limit like this, for example. Now is USD 2000 for example. Okay, so I target five job for one month. If the job, if my, I mean the clients getting more, more than five jobs, then I will increase to 2005 then the business will drop a bit to five job per month. Then if the price, I mean, the business will be better again, up to 10 jobs per month, then I will increase to 3000 USD per month.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Jeff Voon: Something like this. Then you can just keep on, I mean, increase your price. Then you control your, your quality of photo. Then you also can limit your job, to five jobs per month.

Andrew Hellmich: Perfect. So, so at the moment. So what your average wedding price now is 2000 US dollars?

Jeff Voon: Depend, depends, so like, something like, like the culture, some different country that they have different culture. For example, Europe country, we just follow the pricing. Like Turkey, maybe the big name photographer, they will charge 400 per hour. So I will, I will follow it to that, that price. Or we don't want to overprice ourselves. We don't also don't want to underprice it.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. So are you doing, are you doing a lot of destination weddings?

Jeff Voon: Yeah, this year, I am more focusing for the, I mean, the overseas or the destination shooting.

Andrew Hellmich: And is that because there's you can make more money doing that, or because what, why do you want to do overseas weddings?

Jeff Voon: Actually, we want to expose more. For the previous year, I just pass it to the I mean, for example, I have a one network. We have an international photographer network is found by myself. So we have different countries photographer. Once I sign up something like the overseas shooting or the destination photography project, then I will pass it to them, then I earn the commission.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So sorry. Let me understand this. So you have your advertising around the world, and if you book a wedding in, say, Turkey, then you may not go there yourself. You may use one of your Turkish photographers, is that right? And then you get a commission.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, correct. So I just maybe I have few student over there and or I know the level they are the standard, then based on the price or the pricing customer. I mean, follow the budget of the customer, then I can assign one photographer for them. But a lot of the, I mean the problem, or something like the service is not very good, or the artwork is not until that standard. So for this year I will, most probably, I will. I will do it myself.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so then, and then you will charge the client to fly you to Turkey and you do the wedding.

Jeff Voon: Yes, correct. So all the expenses, I like, the hotel, the transportation, everything, they need to pay for it, they will cover it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're doing a roughly 60 weddings a year?

Jeff Voon: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, and then, so at the moment, you're around 2000 US dollars per wedding. But it depends on where you're shooting.

Jeff Voon: Most of the time it will be higher than 2000 USD.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so, so you're so you're based in Malaysia. Can you, can you make a good living as a photographer, photographing just in Malaysia? Or do you have to travel to make a good living as a photographer?

Jeff Voon: Okay, this one is a good question. For normally, for Malaysia, the price quite low for one actual wedding photography package. So those the, those junior photographer, they will just charge for about ringgit Malaysia, 400-500 for the whole day, I think it's more than 12 hours for the Chinese wedding.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So, just so for listeners, a ringgit is the Malaysian currency, and to give you an idea, one Australian Dollar is about three Ringgit. So if, if someone's paying 400 ringgit, you know, that's around $130 for a wedding.

Jeff Voon: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Wow

Jeff Voon: For the whole day, I think it's more than 12 hours, because the Chinese wedding, normally they will start at makeup, I mean the makeup and hairdo around 4 AM four in the morning. Yeah, so, so until the ceremony, the, I mean the morning ceremony is until 12, half past 12 or one. So this one is the morning session. Then you need to go back and do the slideshow. We means the same day edit slideshow. Then for them, the dinner for the reception. So the reception will start at 6:30 until 10 or 11 at night, so it's more than 12 hours. They just charge for 400 to 600 ringgit Malaysia.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. So can you with your reputation now and where you are with your photography, can you charge 2000 US dollars and book a wedding in Malaysia?

Jeff Voon: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so there are people with enough money to pay that.

Jeff Voon: Yes. So I just share this part. Okay. Last time, if we don't have the positive thinking, we always just follow the market price, or we just have the negative thinking about nobody will engage you for this price, so you never go to try it. But I maybe, maybe my, I mean, last time, actually, I'm the computer engineer, so I have some saving, so I just try it out for three months. Means that if I don't have money, I don't have any job, so I still can survive for three months. So this one, I just try it out. But very lucky. I, the first month I try it, then I can get a lot of job. It's more than 2k USD.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, so this one actually, we have different we need to try a lot of way, like, how you are going to brand yourself, make yourself like a LV bag, like a Gucci bag, like a trend. Then most of the, I mean the couple, they will just look at this branded, branded thing. So this is very important. The second thing is your artwork. So how you going to hard sell your artwork, or how you are going to market your artwork? This is very important thing. A lot of the photographer once the customer asked them, they also not very confident to their own artwork. They just like something like, "Oh, are you, your artwork is very nice", but sometimes we are very, if we are not saying doesn't mean that we are showing off in front of our clients, but we just very confident. Once the customer say, "Hey, your artwork is very nice", then we will say, "Yes, we pay a lot of the I mean, the effort to improve ourselves so we can provide a very nice artwork." So in front of our clients, we need to be very confident. Some of them, they just say, "Okay lah, my photo is so, so."

Andrew Hellmich: So when you're talking about your, the artwork of the photographer, you're talking about the style of photography, the way the photos look when you present those photos to the clients.

Jeff Voon: Yes, I can, I can explain this, and almost, I think, 99% clients. I mean, our clients don't know, they don't know what is how to judge a good photo. So they just follow, they will always, I think, all, all over the world, most of the clients, they are they are following they or they get the advice, the advice from, from the friend, how they are going to judge the photo. But that one is, maybe something is wrong, so we need to have a consultation. We don't want to force our clients, but we just give the free information for the clients, how to judge a good photo. For example, we just let them know. Let them see if they know this one is a good photo. Why? We have the reason so a lot of the photographer, they just ignore this part. They will just rush for it. They just want the money from the client. They want the business. So they just something like forcing the customer to sign up the package. So I am not doing like this. I will let them feel very comfortable. Then we just start for a consultation, a free consultation, then no matter that, if they don't want to sign up with you, but I still willing to give them the free information, the free consultation. So this is what very important, then we can get a very good return for the future.

Andrew Hellmich: But I mean, if I look at your Facebook images, your photos, you know, I mean, they look fantastic. They look amazing, I can see that you have an individual style. They, you know, your photos stand out. They are different to a lot of the other photographers that I see. So if a client comes to see your work and they sit down with you in your studio and they just start flicking through your album like it's the same as everyone else's photo. So what do you do then do you? Do you stop them and say, "Hey, these photos are fantastic."

Jeff Voon: So normally it's like this, I never, okay, this one may be out of your out of topic, but never mind. I just explained this one. First for the clients. I never complain or I never compare my artwork with other photographer. Then I also not going to spoil for any photographer, even my competitors. So this one is very important. I just let them know. "Okay, what's the difference? Okay, for example, what is what?" Andrew, just now, you mentioned my artwork. I have my own style. How I'm going to create the own style that is very important for market strategy. If everyone, because most of the photographer they will follow, there will always be the be the cop, I mean, the copycat, for example, this big name photographer, they have a lot of clients or a lot of job, then they will follow the, I mean, the way to do the editing, the post processing, then even follow the style there is, there is very bad. I can tell you, it's very bad. So how are we going to create our own style? First, normally, I will, I will surfing through the Google Search. It's very easy. Now's the day. Just go to search for the big name photographer, then we just learn, but we are not copy. We learn, then we do some of the manipulation. Like a lot of the photographer, they say it's not good for you to copy. Yes, definitely. But we like something like we are not copying their style, but we are copying what? What can make the customer like your artwork, maybe the attitude we can copy, maybe the service, maybe we can copy, that is very important. After that, then you can, you have one guideline, how you're going to create your own style. Nobody can just start their business without a guideline, without, I mean, means we don't have any mission or vision. This is very important, I think. So, for my clients, once they come to me, then I will, normally, I will just let them know, okay, if your artwork is different, because the market, all will copy, okay, all will follow the same style, then you need to do something is different. Then you are unique. So if other people follow your own your style, then you need to another thing to make your artwork unique again.

Andrew Hellmich: You must have people copying all the time, because you're teaching people how to post process like you do.

Jeff Voon: What you mean by?

Andrew Hellmich: Well, you see, you're running workshops around the world, and you're showing you're teaching people how to do post processing and how to set up presets. So won't their photos end up looking like yours?

Jeff Voon: Okay, normally, I will share the post processing, but I am teaching. I mean, how are you going to create this type of artwork? But we are not going to ask them to copy exactly 100% same with my artwork. But I will teach all the secret. So most of the my workshop, a lot of the I mean, the student, they will ask me one question, "Okay, Jeff, can you teach me how to do this type?", they bring some of the artwork from other photographer. "Can you teach me how to do this type of artwork?" Or "Why you use the ISO 1000 but for my shooting, I just you want to use 100 or why?" A lot of why? If you want to ask a lot of why, then I cannot answer your question, because it's wasting my time, wasting other students time. So I just let you, most of this, I mean photographer out there, how they are going to learn from a big name photographer once they attend the workshop, this photographer is going to share his experience, his way to edit it, his way to market the artwork, but they are not going to do what exactly same with other photographer. Don't, if you want to ask them why, they can't answer your question, because no one can know other photographer how they are going to do this type of artwork. So we just share our experience.

Andrew Hellmich: So it's better to ask, how not, why? Show me. Show me how.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, definitely you need to ask how so, but it's not why.

Andrew Hellmich: Great. Now I really, I want to focus, it's a little bit more on your on where you're based, in Malaysia, and the fact that you charge so much. So I have so many listeners from around the world who say, you know, they listen to other photographers that are well established, and they say to themselves, they think to themselves, "I can't charge that much. That's too expensive." But here you are in Malaysia, where the average price is $130 and you're charging $2,000.

Jeff Voon: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So what happens when a client, when someone rings you in Malaysia, a bride, and she says, "Jeff, I love your work. I want, I want to book you for my photography." Do you tell and she says, "How much do you cost? How much does it cost to have Jeff Voon for my photography?"

Jeff Voon: Yes, normally, I think most of my clients are at my hometown. Most of them, they know like, because we have a lot of cities. In my cities, I'm the most expensive photographer. So this one is also one of the strategy for your marketing, because it's very you know, you are very, very, very famous because of your pricelist. They are not going to know your artwork first, but they know you are the most expensive photographer. So once this one, I think, is one of the free advertisement, free advertisement.

Andrew Hellmich: Because people are talking about you, because you're expensive?

Jeff Voon: Yeah. You are, yeah, you are very expensive. Other for the photographer, once the customer go over there, they will also say, "Oh, Jeff, Jeff is very expensive." Then they are helping me to promote my business.

Andrew Hellmich: Aha!

Jeff Voon: It's a good thing. So in my mind, always is positive. I won't just blame them. Why you spoil me? Why you say my price very high? Definitely, this one is the truth. I'm very expensive, but never mind, only the, I mean, the couple can afford it, then they will come to me. It's very easy. So means I already, they are helping me to filter it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So if someone, if someone rings you to ask you about your photography, will you tell them the price over the phone?

Jeff Voon: Yes, I have no secret, actually, because they want to ask me some, something I want to share here. For example, they asked me, "Okay, I have 1-1-1, like a very big, big, I mean package, that for that package, I will return all the, I mean, the soft copy, the photo, I will release all is for free for the clients. So a lot of the photographer asked me this question, "Once you return all the soft copy, then you don't have any, I mean, the extra add-on, don't have any extra printing." But I can tell you, this is wrong, most of the clients, they will come back to me because they feel that you are professional. They won't just use the edited for photo to go outside there and ask people to print it out. So I mean, this one, normally, is very important. We must know.

Andrew Hellmich: So when I look at your photos, Jeff, I can see that there's no way that the photos that you're presenting are what come out of your camera, that I know they've been worked on and skillfully. So there's no way that your clients can make their photos look like yours, even if you took them. So what about for the photographer? You know that doesn't do the post processing that you do, and they look more natural. Do you think that photographer would suffer by giving away the digital files?

Jeff Voon: You mean, can you repeat again?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, so with your photos, the ones I'm looking at online, the client cannot make them look like this. You have to make them look like this.

Jeff Voon: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Because that's not straight out of the camera.

Jeff Voon: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: That's been worked on so, so if the client wants them to look like this, they have to come back to you and you have to make them look like this with Photoshop or Lightroom. Or is this how you give them to the clients?

Jeff Voon: You mean, is it the editing?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah. So the edited photo. Is that how the client gets the photo on the disc? Or they just get the file out of the camera?

Jeff Voon: Oh, okay, actually, is like this, normally for the package, I will give them one flash mount album. Means that as a coffee table album. Inside there maybe just having, what are 20-21 photo inside, so that 20 pieces for a photo is edited, so the soft copy, sure, just the 20 or 21 photo is edited, same like what I post in the photo. I mean the Facebook.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Jeff Voon: So this one, the rest of the soft copy sure is unedited, but I will use the color correction means I'm using the, maybe the Lightroom, to do the, I mean, the editing, but I'm not going to touch up the scar on the face or make it slimmer.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Just a rough edit.

Jeff Voon: Yes, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, okay, all right, can I? Can I change the subject a little bit?

Jeff Voon: Yeah, sure.

Andrew Hellmich: When, when we talked about doing this interview, I started to do a little bit of research. And there's no Jeff Voon photography website. There's only Facebook. So you must be the only photographer that I know that doesn't have a website. Why?

Jeff Voon: Yeah. Okay, I can just let you have a very simple answer. If the clients want to find you, no matter how hard, they also can find you. If they don't want to find you, even you have a lot of the social network, they also won't come to you. So this one is very, very I mean more to psychology, because I just want them to add me in the Facebook. Now today, almost every even 80 years old, old lady, they also playing the Facebook. So the Facebook is the most, I mean, easier way to approach each other. So I just go for one social network. Then other than that, I'm not going to do it. So the second thing, like they asked me, "Why you don't have the website, why you don't have the business card?" I have the business card, but my business card is very expensive. It's a very, very premium. I mean, printing is very expensive one, that one just for some of the, I mean, the royal family, just for some of the, I mean, a ministry of whatever is very, I mean, it's a very, it's a very important person, VIP. So for other clients, I'm not going to give it to them, because you can just study this one. You can just try it out. Once they don't, they want to quick, or they want to run away from you, definitely, they will ask you, "Hey, it's time I want to leave. Then do you have the business card? Do you have the name card." This is the most of the time they will ask for this. After that, they will throw it away, a lot of rubbish. Then you, you're wasting your money to print it out. So I am not going to do this. Even the slideshow, I means the montage, or the same day edit, the DVD display on their wedding. So this one, I also don't include any of the logo or my name, because this one also, one, also a very good practice, if you dare to do it. Okay, I shared it because sometimes you're, you are very good in business, I mean the photography business. So you have a lot of enemies. You have a lot of the competitors. So most of the time they will spoil you at the back, some of the clients, some of the people, they don't know you, definitely they don't know you. So once they know this, this, this may be rumor, you are not good in service, or you your photo is just so, so it's not very nice, but because you, you know how to brand yourself, so make your price very high. A lot of the customer, they have a very negative, you know, point of view against you. So now I go, I mean, I'm shooting for that particular customer. Then when I do the slideshow, I don't have any logo or don't have any name on it. Once they display the, all the audience, all the guests, they will just pay attention for the slideshow. After that, if they are very interested in this, this, this, I mean slideshow. If they want to engage this photographer, they will go to ask the brides and groom. Once they ask it, because, for my experience, they don't know. They just say, "Huh, that photographer is Jeff?", because they don't know. They don't know me. They just go to ask the brides and groom, "Hey, this photo is very nice. Who is the photographer? No name at all." "Okay, this one is Jeff." "Oh, it's Jeff." So it's different, because what I heard last time from others photographer, "He's not doing this type of photo. "So this one is something like, we don't want to let them have the first impression first. We don't want to display our name first. We just let them see all the photo first. After that, if they are interested in then they will can go to ask the brides and groom. Then most of the time, I can get a lot of business from there.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, okay. So just, just explain. Jeff, so why, if you do the slideshow at the wedding? What? Why can't the last slide or the last photo have your logo on it? What? Why does that? Because then they've seen all the photos.

Jeff Voon: No, because I, this one, normally they will display at the, I mean, the end of the slideshow. But I'm not going to do it because I want that, I want to create something is, is something like they are curious about this photographer, who is this photographer? Then they will go to find it out.

Andrew Hellmich: So you're, you're trying to make it a little bit harder for them.

Jeff Voon: No, because it's very easy, almost all the reception, I mean, the wedding, I can get one or two couples to sign up my package.

Andrew Hellmich: At the wedding?

Jeff Voon: Yes, on the spot, they will come to me. Okay, "I just now I view your artwork already, but I don't, I don't know who are you. So I asked the brides and groom. Then now I know you are Jeff. I heard your name before, but I don't know you are Jeff." So this is very, very good. You know, a good practice. Most of the time, if, if you have some rumor against you, once they view your name, they won't come to you. Definitely. They will run away because they say, "Oh, that photographer say talking about you is telling us you are not going to shoot the, I mean, the group photo." That ridiculous. I am the photographer. I'm not going to shoot the group photo? I mean the family photo, because our practice in Malaysia, after the reception, they have the group photo. But I am very, you know, I'm, I have a very good plan for the group photo. I'm not simply like just shoot it like this. So some of the photographer there use this point to attack me. So this is what I always teach my student. Doesn't mean that, sometimes we need to do something is extraordinary. Even the marketing strategy also is different. I'm not going to follow. If you are famous, if your artwork is very good, very nice, you no need to do any advertisement to no need to do and any, I mean, the slideshow you add in your name, they also will find out who is this photographer.

Andrew Hellmich: So tell me, Jeff, if someone sees your slideshow at the wedding and they love your work, and they come, they ask the bride, and she says, "Oh, it's Jeff. Jeff Voon", then they come to you, yeah, you haven't got a business card to give them.

Jeff Voon: No. The same, if they want, okay, for example..

Andrew Hellmich: Would you say go to go to Facebook?

Jeff Voon: Yes, nowadays, the data, data line means that the, I mean the 3G or, or, I mean the mobile is very you know, it's almost all the people that they own a hand phone. So nowadays, I just okay, once they come to me, then I will just give them the number or the Facebook. Directly they can add me. I can accept it on the spot. So this is very good, and you can save a lot of money for printing all the business card, then they throw your way, create a lot of rubbish. Yeah? Go for green.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. Said, I just want to go back a little bit, Jeff, just to the website thing. So I'm not, I'm not 100% sure I understand why you don't have a website.

Jeff Voon: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: So because aren't you worried that maybe Facebook one day will say, "Okay, Jeff, you have a business. We're going to charge you a lot of money, or we don't like what you're doing in Facebook, we're going to remove you from Facebook."

Jeff Voon: So this is a very hard question for me. I also very worried about this.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, good.

Jeff Voon: Yeah. Very worried about this. So I think, I'm not saying that that is wrong, but I just focus on one. I mean one, Facebook, I mean the social network.

Andrew Hellmich: So no Pinterest, no Twitter.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, soon, maybe I will, I will do something like a blog or website, that one is something maybe need, needs someone to create it. Something like, like the real time update, I can update always something same, like Facebook, have the chat room, have the, I mean, the different function is similar to the Facebook, that's very important. Yeah, I think I'm not saying that I other ways is wrong because I just want to focus on one, sure, because it's easier for me to focus, or I, for also easier for customer to approach me.

Andrew Hellmich: Now, I agree. Because you have a relationship straight away. They ask to be friends, or I like your page, and then you have a connection.

Jeff Voon: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. I agree. Okay, can we talk a little bit about marketing?

Jeff Voon: Yeah, sure.

Andrew Hellmich: So what's, what's the, you know, what's the one or two things that you're doing that book you the most weddings. What are you doing? What do you think that you, if I said to you tomorrow, you had to start a brand new business, as a photographer in Malaysia, what's that? What's the first thing you would do to try and get business?

Jeff Voon: To try to get business?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, to try and book more wedding, to book new weddings, what would you do? What's the what's working for you now?

Jeff Voon: I still can't get it. Get you.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's okay. So let's say, let's say you move tomorrow to Europe.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, okay.

Andrew Hellmich: And you had to start a brand new business. No one knows Jeff Voon.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: In a little country town and you have to start photographing weddings, yeah. How do you how do you find your clients? Or, how do they find you?

Jeff Voon: Okay, it's very easy, the way I think, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Easy. easy.

Jeff Voon: It's very easy. The first things I think I will do the, I'm not going to do something, it's free, but I will do something like using the social media, like the media. It's very easy, easy way you can be famous, or more people will know it. So the first thing, okay, just now I want to know this question is, is it I'm already a photographer, or I am a newbie, or I am the junior just start this business?

Andrew Hellmich: Let's, let's say that you're a newbie.

Jeff Voon: Okay, it's a newbie. So a newbie, normally, we can't talk about artwork, because it's maybe it's not still not very nice, it's not still not really good in the shooting. So I think the most important thing is how you are going to level yourself first. Okay, your price, how much? Then you need to have a network, normally, is the faster. I mean, the very fast method, how you're going to promote yourself? Is doing the, I mean, the exhibition, your own art exhibition, to let people know it, then you need to conduct one is free, is a public, on something like workshop, you just got give them the public talk.

Andrew Hellmich: Even as a newbie?

Jeff Voon: Yes, you can do it, because no one will, can judge you, except you attend. I mean, you join the competition. People, they will, they will judge your artwork. Is it up to standard? But for your marketing strategy. If you dare, if you brave enough to promote yourself, no one will say you are wrong. So this is the first, is the very first way how you going to promote yourself. I teach my student, you can do a small exhibition, to invite a lot of people to come to your exhibition, to the art exhibition, or something like a gallery. Then, then after that, then you can provide a public speaking like you invite the church. Because the church, we are not saying that you using the church, but you are, is from, is for free, giving them the correct information. How going, how they going to choose a good photographer. This one is a very important thing. Once you share with them, then you can get some return from them.

Andrew Hellmich: So hang on, Jeff, do you mean just go to the church and do a presentation, or invite them to come to your workshop?

Jeff Voon: Yeah, I think it's invite. Because if you go to the church, something like, I form for myself, I feel it's not very good, because something like we are using the church. This one is religion. We are not going to make our business, then try to travel the church to help you, to promote yourself. I think it's not very good, but we can invite them. This is a free seminar, or free gathering, then you can gather all the, I mean, the like couple still haven't married yet, or they are just or they want to know more about this one, then you can just invite some of the wedding planner to give some of the ideas how they're going to do the decoration for the wedding. Then you can make not only yourself to do the seminar. You can invite some of the parties to join you. Then you can do something like this. The second thing you can do like charity. How are you going to do the charity? Then you can set up a booth, the photo fund booth. Then you can maybe invite some of the, because a lot of the, I mean the minister or the VIP, they are willing to do the charity with you. So you can just ask them to join you. Then you just have, you are doing the photo fund booth. Then you shoot it. Then you collect the money, then all the money, then you just give it to the charity, parties, the organization.

Andrew Hellmich: And how does that help your business?

Jeff Voon: Yes, definitely, because that one can gain more people to come to your booth. Because I don't, I don't think if you want to do the charity, nobody will support you. This one actually our main purpose, also for the charity, the win-win situation, the win-win because you can gain more network.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're trying to get brand awareness for people to know you.

Jeff Voon: Yes, because the most, most are the problem is, nobody know you. What? If you are still junior, or you just start your business. So you need somebody know you.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So with, with the church thing, with the public speaking, or the presentation, now that, I can imagine that working in some places, but if someone doesn't go to churches, can they get people to come from, you know, from somewhere else? Or can you have a how to take photos workshop? Or does it have to be all about weddings? Or is it, is it just to get your name out there as a, as a professional?

Jeff Voon: Okay, the second, another and another method, okay, if this one can't work it, ah. So some, some like, like, the religion, some of them, they are not going to the church or because that that country, they are. They are different religion. Okay, so this one I just mentioned another way around. For example, the awards, the competition awards. That one is very important. Actually, we are not showing a show, showing off like we are the best in the world, but we just, the competition. Once you earn an award from the competition. But that one should be a very big competition. It's an international competition. So you can make use of the local media to do the interview for you. That one is a free advertisement. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So all this thing, all this is aimed at getting your name out there as the, as a professional. If you're starting out, you want to get your name out there and be known.

Jeff Voon: Yes, recognize means that your artwork is not judged by your own self, is the best, but is judged by some parties, is out there, like a very recognized, like all-star like this, great awards that is, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I love it. Look, I want to be conscious of your time. So I think for the premium members, we might dive in a little bit deeper and ask about your marketing suggestions for the more advanced photographers. But before we do that, can I ask you these 10 quick questions?

Jeff Voon: Yeah, sure.

Andrew Hellmich: 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, go! Canon or Nikon? What do you shoot? Cannon or Nikon?

Jeff Voon: Neither.

Andrew Hellmich: Neither?! What do you shoot?

Jeff Voon: Okay, because I am doing something different.

Andrew Hellmich: Again.

Jeff Voon: I mean the sponsorship. So who can pay me? Who can sponsor me? Then I will speak on which company

Andrew Hellmich: Who's your sponsor?

Jeff Voon: Now is Canon.

Andrew Hellmich: It is canon.

Andrew Hellmich: So you do shoot Canon.

Jeff Voon: Canon. Now is Canon.

Andrew Hellmich: But it used to be Nikon?

Jeff Voon: Yes, I think Turkey will sponsor me for Nikon.

Andrew Hellmich: Very good. All right, here's, here's an easy one. What's your favorite lens and why?

Jeff Voon: 70 200 2.8 beautiful.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you shoot JPEG or RAW?

Jeff Voon: RAW

Andrew Hellmich: What's a problem that you faced while you've been building your business. What's one big problem you've come across?

Jeff Voon: I think, just on the manpower to do the editing.

Andrew Hellmich: All right. So you do all your editing yourself?

Jeff Voon: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Everything?

Jeff Voon: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Did you have anyone else working with you?

Jeff Voon: No

Andrew Hellmich: Just you.

Jeff Voon: Yes, because if you charge so high, most of the clients will ask you to do all everything for them.

Andrew Hellmich: Very, good. No, that's good. What was something that you think along in your journey so far, what's, what's something that happened when your business took a big step forward?

Jeff Voon: Copycat

Andrew Hellmich: When you copied, or someone copied you?

Jeff Voon: Somebody will copy my artwork, then they give a very low price. That is a very big impact, because a lot of now's the day, you know, the pirated software, there is a very, you know, you can't imagine, you can't imagine how big the impact is, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So that's been bad for your business.

Jeff Voon: Bad. Now is not a big problem, because now I reduce it to a five business, five job per month is no, no, no big effect my business.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, what? What software do you use for your editing and your renaming and numbering?

Jeff Voon: Oh, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing the renamed or renowned renumber it.

Andrew Hellmich: Same number from the camera?

Jeff Voon: Yes, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So how, what software do you use to go through all your images? Lightroom?

Jeff Voon: Lightroom, yes, Lightroom and Photoshop.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so no other software for your photos?

Jeff Voon: No.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay.

Jeff Voon: Actually, the preset, the pre, preset, for the, for your camera, also is very important. Actually, most of the time, I'm not going to do a lot of editing, but a lot of the photographer, they say "Jeff photo is a lot of Photoshop." Actually, is not.

Andrew Hellmich: Which camera presets?

Jeff Voon: Yes, camera presets, yeah, that is very important.

Andrew Hellmich: Are you, are you changing your presets all the time during the day?

Jeff Voon: No, I just set it. Then I know. I know, because I do a lot of research. For example, the morning session, normally I will use one setting. Then, if afternoon is very hot weather, very hot, sunny day, I how I going to make use of the flare to create something like different photo is a very nice photo. Make use of the natural thing. So this one actually can give you a lot of, I mean, impact in your photo.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. Okay, excellent. Do you do you watch what other photographers are doing?

Jeff Voon: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: All the time.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, I still yeah, still learn. I never stop for learning, then even I can learn from my student.

Andrew Hellmich: Very good.

Jeff Voon: Because everyone they have their own skill or their idea that is very important. We don't just label. ourselves is very high. Then we just ignore all the small name photographer or the newbies, or even a normal person is not in this field, but I will gain all the ideas, the creativity, how they going to make it like this? Then I can learn. Everyone is my teacher.

Andrew Hellmich: Two more questions, what, you're shooting in very hot, very humid environments. What do you wear when you're photographing a wedding in Malaysia?

Jeff Voon: Okay, I am still wearing a very proper way, a formal, a long sleeve.

Andrew Hellmich: A long sleeve, because on Facebook, there's a photo with three photographers, and they're wearing no sleeves and like a singlet top.

Jeff Voon: Okay, this one go back to something like the culture, actually, for our wedding in Malaysia is already, like, influenced by the Europe country, like you wear, like the I mean, their practice, their culture, like their wedding ceremony, is already mixed with the local culture. So since this one is a very you know important day is a very formal day, we need to respect our clients. This is very important. Sometimes they just wear like, like, I mean, a sandal, just a short pant, just t-shirt like this, because your excuse is very hot. So this is, is not good, no matter how I still wear very proper. Then I respect my clients. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. Okay, you must have to change clothes after the shoot sometimes because it's so hot.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, a day we need to change a lot because some of the clients are housed, don't have the, I mean, the aircon.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh

Jeff Voon: It's very hot, but we knew we can't complain it. We just need to be a very professional. Then we just shoot it. We don't have any excuse.

Andrew Hellmich: Have you got an embarrassing story that's happened while you've been photographing a wedding?

Jeff Voon: Yes, yes.

Andrew Hellmich: Tell me. Tell me.

Jeff Voon: Okay, easy, okay, sometimes we do something like, how we are going to promote ourselves? Like, once you get an awards, then you know how to promote it, how to make use of this award to target more business to increase your price. But for other photographer, sometimes they will think about this one is a very big impact for their business. Then they will, they will do something like blackmail you. How, they will find somebody to fight you, they will..

Andrew Hellmich: Really?

Jeff Voon: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: To fight you?

Jeff Voon: I did face this.

Andrew Hellmich: They wanted to fight with you.

Jeff Voon: They want to fight with you, but they are not going to show their own face. They will engage, or they will ask some of the hooligan to come to you to ask you, is better you don't do it like this, or it's better a lot. So now I know how to promote to, this one also what we say is gain the experience, then we change our method, then make them can't do anything to you.

Andrew Hellmich: So has that happened at a wedding? Someone's come to you at a wedding?

Jeff Voon: No

Andrew Hellmich: No

Jeff Voon: For the normal day.

Andrew Hellmich: Just a normal day in the week

Jeff Voon: Normal day. Then once you after your shooting, then the hooligan will come to you. Then they will, you know, a warning you a lot of things, they will ask you, "Better, don't do it like this." But we are not going to attack other business, other people's business, but I don't, don't understand why they can do it like this. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Crazy

Jeff Voon: Yeah, it's crazy.

Andrew Hellmich: It's been an absolute pleasure. Now, how can, how can listeners find you and your work? I know what you're going to say here. Where can, where can they see your photography?

Jeff Voon: How to, how to approach me? Yeah, it's very easy. Still the same. Facebook at the moment, just only Facebook, you know, faithful one.

Andrew Hellmich: And I know you're coming to Australia to do some workshops. Are you? Are you going to other countries as well?

Jeff Voon: Yeah, after this one, I just back from Bali today. So after that, travel to Melbourne. November will be going to Italy, the Rome, Italy and Spain, that is, I think, is the last workshop for this year.

Andrew Hellmich: And then next year, will you be, maybe in America or the UK?

Jeff Voon: UK, maybe, but US still, still need to consider it, because need to do because our country, if you want to go to, I mean US, you, we need to apply the visa, it's very hard.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, yeah. Well, maybe the US photographers can travel to Australia or to the UK to come and see you, or they can check you out on Facebook.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, because for the previous workshop at Singapore, I have the from Bangladesh and also one from UK.

Jeff Voon: Great.

Jeff Voon: They just are, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. Jeff, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

Jeff Voon: Yeah, thank you, Andrew.

 
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