022: Kristen Jensen – Diversification is Key For A Home Based Wedding Photography Business

022: Kristen Jensen – Diversification is Key For A Home Based Wedding Photography Business

Andrew Hellmich: I'm really excited to have my guest on today all the way from the States. She's a former Ford supermodel and actress. She's a wedding and portrait and commercial photographer and videographer, and she shoots events. She does everything. She's also an author of the book How to Start A Home Based Wedding Photography Business. She's a branding and marketing expert and speaker. Kristen Jensen, welcome to the podcast.

Kristen Jensen: Thank you.

Andrew Hellmich: Was that an accurate description?

Kristen Jensen: Oh, gosh, I don't know. I feel, you know, it's, I always tell people I've got a lot of irons in the fire. And I think as a photographer these days, you really got to have a lot of different streams of revenue working for you.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. So why do you say these days, if you notice a big change in the way the industry is running these days?

Kristen Jensen: I mean, honestly, I started my own business only 10 years ago, but I have definitely seen a difference and the fact that basically everybody is a photographer. I mean, literally, like even consume, like, everybody wants to know about photography. And I think when everything went digital, it just opened up a whole another market, and people kind of underbidding, and all kinds of jazz. And I think it's kind of like the good people and the good, you know, the businesses that are doing well, and photographers that are really strong are going to rise above sort of this flux. And I don't even know if it happens with you guys in Australia, but it definitely. And New Zealand, I know that it happens, you know, definitely here in our market.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, look, it does. It's happened here for sure. I think we've seen a big change in the last few years. And, you know, I've got listeners from all over the world. I think everyone is going through the same thing, where everyone is a photographer, but you just said, then only 10 years, that's a pretty that's pretty cool. Only 10 years in business.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, you know what I celebrated last month was my 10th year, because I started in 2003 and I just said, "This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to go for it." And thankfully, it's worked. But again, I've sort of morphed into these new these new roles. I really primarily started as a wedding photographer, and I really pushed that, and in 2003 a lot of my competitors weren't even digital at that point. So I had that upper hand and I really worked it, and I had a really great website. And now it's, you know, three or four websites later. But I think the event photography and shooting events is a great training ground for what you shouldn't train. You should be a second shooter because you can't really miss a shot. But it's just, it hones your skills as a photographer, because, you know, because of the pace of a wedding. So I think it's really cool.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. So can you give listeners a little bit of an idea about you, so where you're based, and maybe how your business is split up percentage-wise, between all the different sort of irons you have in the fires?

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, I am about 60 miles north east of New York City in Connecticut, and I live in a small town, very suburban, but a sweet little New England town. I do have jobs in the city, and I do sometimes go to New Jersey because I'm in that tri-state area, so it's all kind of driving distance. I would say, you know, most of my business has been from word of mouth, and now I don't do any advertising. I haven't advertised in four, four or five years, and it is all through word of mouth, which is really the best, you know, if you could be at that point, because otherwise, you know, I mean, you can advertise online, and I think print is kind of out to advertise with. But you know, if somebody's really looking to be a photographer and get into the community, you have to be a part of that community. You have to be seen. You have to give back. And there's a lot of different layers of things that I think you need to do to just, you know, kickstart your marketing and get your name out there.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. I want to really explore what you just said then, and I know that you're doing a lot of different things in your business, so with the way your current income is structured, how much is, or what percentage is, from weddings, from portraits, you know, from the event photography, how's that split up for you?

Kristen Jensen: I mean, honestly, probably my events right now are about 25% so, and it's strictly through referral. So I, you know, and I think with the events, the clients, you know, you're with them for quite a while. For instance, even if a bride books a wedding six months from now or a year, you know, she is my client until the wedding, and then, usually up until up to a year after. So they take more attention, I think, than other clients are like, you know, corporate clients, because there's no emotional piece and, and I think that, you know, I have friends that are wedding photographers, and just it's, you know, exclusively only do weddings. But I've decided to split it up not only for diversity, not, you know, I won't be bored. And if one, and if one of these, one of these areas, sort of slacks off, I can kind of pick up on the other one. So it's been a nice balance. And I would say portrait work and I have a home studio. I have a studio behind my house. People come here. I have a hair and makeup artist and I do so many portraits here, I probably shot on every single square inch of my property. So it's, you know, I really like that. And I have to say, probably the profit margin is better than the events, when you, when you amortize your hours and your time.

Andrew Hellmich: Sorry. Kristen, so what's better than the events? The portraits are better than the events?

Kristen Jensen: I think profit, profitability wise, yeah, the profit margin is better because it's so much less time.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Kristen Jensen: I figured that. I sat down with my accountant once, and I figured out that the average wedding is at least 60 hours of work. So that's one week out of the year. And even though you're only there 8-10 hours for the actual shoot. You have to, you know, calculate all the hours that you do pre-production, you know, actually producing and being there on the wedding day and the follow up. I mean, the follow up is huge with an event.

Andrew Hellmich: So, so have you, have you made a conscious effort then to, sort of to steer away from weddings, and you just take whatever comes through word of mouth or, you know, it's just the way it's gone?

Kristen Jensen: No, I mean, you know what I was, I was thinking that, and then I was like, "Oh my gosh, I miss doing weddings", because I actually really do like doing weddings. I just don't like doing, you know, 50 a year, you know, it was just too much, but, but I actually really enjoy it. And I have launched a new site this year, which is kristenjensenweddings.com and I think what, what photographers and what people have to do these days is you have to separate yourself from all the other wedding photographers, and you also have to decide what price range you're going to target, you know, who's your client. So I've decided at this point with my career is to go for a really high-end client, for really a boutique experience, for really hands-on. And so I can't take as many and offer that kind of service. But no, I'm doing it. I'm just not advertising. I don't advertise.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so how would you, how would you describe a boutique experience now, as compared to, say, when you're shooting weddings 10 years ago, or when you first started, like, what's the what does a client get this different now, apart from your experience?

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, right now I've actually just, I, I feel like I had, like, a coming-out party, like three years ago, I was working with a career coach, and he said, "Why don't you talk more about your background as a model?" And I, I don't. I just felt like I needed to prove myself as a photographer. I don't know why, but I just kind of left it on the back burner. So all this talk about modeling and my background is now coming to the forefront, and I'm using that with my marketing. For instance, my package for brides includes a beauty session with me, and it includes hair, makeup and absolutely how to, how to pose and look at the camera. And if her fiancé is available, I'll shoot them as well.

Andrew Hellmich: So is this an Is this an engagement shoot, or this is something entirely different?

Kristen Jensen: It's kind of like a beauty how to shoot. It's like, this is what you should do, wear your makeup, you know, try, you know. It's almost like a consulting session, but it's mixed with pictures, and then, you know, and then, if you know, her boyfriend's available, obviously he can come and I'll do a quick engagement session. But it just offering a little bit more, like I think so many women and brides are self-conscious. It's the most important day of their life, and I want to help them with their poses and do not feel self-conscious with the camera on the day of their wedding. So that was one little thing I'm offering. I'm also offering video packages, which are really like a highlight reel. We're anywhere from five to eight minutes of the best parts of her day. So I can offer that too.

Andrew Hellmich: So are you shooting that? Are you having someone else come in and shoot that for you?

Kristen Jensen: I, depending on how much, how many minutes they want, and how big the wedding is, and, you know, depending on really what it is, I would have someone else. But I am learning how to do both at the same time, which is, I really think where photography is going. I feel like we're in a renaissance right now. I feel like what's happening with photography, it's going to be more multimedia. In other words, photographers can show their work. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool stuff, the video that's coming out of cameras these days.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it's amazing. The definition is incredible. So do you, do you just use the same camera and click over to video, or you'll have separate cameras, one for video, one for still?

Kristen Jensen: Gotta tell you, I went, I was in Tanzania, in Tanzania, Africa, in January, and I shot a documentary with my Canon. The point SLR and I, it was, it's tough focusing. I don't know if anybody out there listening has had this experience, only one I had, you know, it was a little tricky. I've been using the Lumix mirrorless camera that's super light and weight. It's got a little battery grip, and I can handhold that camera, and it locks focus on my subject, and I can switch back and forth to, you know, stills or video. And obviously I can take stills off video. So what I've seen, a lot of people asking me, a lot of clients asking me for and this is across the board, portrait work, event work, commercial work, they're asking for video print packages, and that's what I've been really pushing because, I mean, for instance, if we're doing a portrait shoot, and hair and makeups done and everything's great, why not shoot, you know, shoot, you know, 15 minute interview? I mean, it's an upsell for me. And it's a win, win for the client, because they're like, "Oh my gosh, this is great. Of course, I'm going to need a video." So it's been, it's kind of neat. I have a, I have some two editors that I work with, and they've been fantastic. I wish I had time to sit and learn how to edit, but I don't, and I would love to just, you know, just to do that, but I just don't have the time. And that's the only, you know, there's some learning curve and obviously more workflow with video.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. So you finding that a lot of wedding clients are taking you up on the video option, or is it just sort of every, every few?

Kristen Jensen: I would say 50% of the wedding people are wanting the video option, and really, you know, it's not like the old videos that, you know, you just have a videographer with a tripod. I mean, this is like, this looks like a commercial, you know I mean, it's cool. It's cut really fast. It just has the highlights. It's mixed with stills. It's with whatever music they want, so you don't have any issues with music, and it looks pretty cool. Not only that, they can email it to their friends, you know, they can send the Vimeo link or the YouTube link, and it just drives people to your website again, you know, just more people to your site.

Andrew Hellmich: So, you know, you have a few different websites. So is there a reason you've structured yourself that way, rather than just having one big website?

Kristen Jensen: You know, I did have one big website, and then I thought I didn't need to do that. We'll see how things go. I think, what would happen is I wanted to go into, to do more advertising, and, you know, more lifestyle stuff. And these, you know, a lot of these clients, like, "Oh, you're a wedding photographer", because it looked like the whole site was wedding. So, and then I have meet with brides, and they're like, "Oh, you do that. So you don't really do weddings." So I decided just to separate my event site from my main site. And it's no big deal. They're both WordPress sites, so they're pretty simple to manage on the back-end. And you know, I think so far, it's, it's been good. I find that people that are, you know, a bride that's looking for a photographer, wants a photographer that shoots a lot of weddings a year to know that they're really competent and used to doing it. I look at it like going for a surgery. If you find somebody, you know, you're going to go to a doctor that does whatever you're looking for, consistently.

Andrew Hellmich: Definitely.

Kristen Jensen: And I think a wedding client, with all the sites for brides and everything that it's just, this is what they're told to do, too. It's like, kind of what's happening. So I, I'm going to try it. I mean, we should talk in a year and see where I'm at. But so far, it seems good, you know, and especially for you know, if you're networking with wedding planners or you have venues that you're like tying-in with, it just makes it very tight and compact. And really, you know, it, I think it could be better, to be honest, because it's just too many, otherwise people get confused. Well, "What is she" I mean, I had someone called me last week and say, "Can you photograph my horse?" And I said, "Yes". She goes, "Well, do you have any horse pictures to send to me?" I mean, you know. So I think the weddings is, is, if you know, it is a big market and to really hone-in and have that really down pack, I think is, is important.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, no, I agree. And I think if you're niching down, then people do know you as a wedding photographer or a an event photographer or, you know, whatever it may be. I think it puts you higher up in their view, doesn't it?

Kristen Jensen: I think so. It's funny. But you know, I mean, hopefully you're just kind of getting clients that don't really care. They just know you're good.

Andrew Hellmich: That would be easy.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, that would be great. Like, "Oh no, no, we get it, you know", but, um, but, yeah, it's all, it's all good. So, so I've been that. I've been very busy. I've been busy with Lumix, working for them, and teaching. I've really enjoyed it. I didn't know I would enjoy teaching so much. So that's been a nice surprise.

Andrew Hellmich: What are you actually teaching?

Kristen Jensen: I'm actually teaching. I taught a workshop. Oh, it's already July and June, on marketing, marketing, it's wedding photography marketing, that's all it was. So it was like an hour and a half of just marketing. And next week, I'm going to be at Adorama in the city, New York City, teaching wedding and portrait marketing. So it seems to be that people think I know what I'm doing. They want me to teach them kind of the tricks. I mean, the truth is, I really love marketing. I think it's fun. But I know a lot of my friends that are photographers and other photographers who don't think it's fun or they're intimidated by it. And I, my philosophy is, is that client, you know, prospective client, probably needs to see your name about 10 times before they'll call you. So when you look at it kind of like that, you realize that there's got to be just layers of ways that you're going to reach those people. And it's not just one thing, you know, it's not just writing a blog, and it's not just, you know, being on Facebook. So it's, it's a real level, you know, there's lots of different layers.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, for sure. So you've said that, I mean, you told me you don't, you don't advertise. It's all sort of word of mouth. But then you're teaching marketing. See, there's obviously a big difference between marketing and advertising.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, you know what? I honestly, when I first started my business in 2003, I took out ads and Modern Bride and I, and I spent some money and in The Knot, and got on some of these sites. But what I found is that my best, you know, direct referral is either a from a client that's happy, or B, and I'm speaking about weddings, or B from the venue of where the wedding was, because I don't know about with you guys, but with us, it's, you know, the couple gets engaged, they figure out where they're going to get married, where the party is, then they hire a photographer. Me, it's third, it's engagement, where the party is going to be, photographer. So the direct beeline is the venue and nurturing those people that have really great places, whether they're a manager, whether it's a bed and breakfast, you know, whatever it is, those people are the ones that will refer your business. So what I've done, and which probably a lot of photographers do, is it's part of like, my list of things to do is, after I get a wedding out the door and online and clients happy is, I make a, you know, a DVD or like my publisher book, or, you know, something that is really specifically about the venue, because I take a lot of detail shots and room shots and landscape shots, always thinking of this to send them after. So I would say probably 80% of my referrals are venue.

Andrew Hellmich: So, so when you're shooting these venues, like when you said you're shooting these detail shots and wide shots, and you're almost treating that like a commercial photography shoot for the venue.

Kristen Jensen: I am, I am, and it's, and I even if I'm working with the second shooter and assistant, I said, "I want to really, you know, double up on these shots, because I want really great stuff." And then what I do with the real, you know, I'll put a shot of the couple, you know, showing their landscape, or whatever, but, and then what's so great, it's so easy for them to sell their space with these pictures. And the first thing people ask is, "Oh, who's a photographer?" I mean, it's just a slam dunk. It's so easy to do and it's not expensive.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you watermark these images as well?

Kristen Jensen: Um, I don't. I let them. I let them use them.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And they can use them however they like.

Kristen Jensen: However they like, put them on their website. I mean, I asked if they give me a photo credit, but and they do usually do. You know they usually do. I think the book is even better.

Andrew Hellmich: So what's the book? What do you mean by the book?

Kristen Jensen: Well, do you know MacBooks?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: You know the MacBook? It's something like a MacBook. So you can find Mac or other competitors. But I put, put it in print and make, like a collage.

Andrew Hellmich: Like a coffee table style book.

Kristen Jensen: Exactly

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, so you do one of those for the whole of the whole wedding, or just of the reception venue?

Kristen Jensen: Just of the key pictures that show that venue at its best.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow, I bet they love that.

Kristen Jensen: Would say, if you have 25 pictures, that's a lot, that's enough.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Kristen Jensen: Full page. And then you could do like a collage of little detail shots of, you know, party favors or flowers or whatever. And people go, "Oh" and on they look at it, they're very excited. It gives them idea of how they can imagine their wedding there. And it's easier than online. I think it's really great. Like they're holding it, they're looking at like, who shot this?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. Nice. That's a great idea. Great tip.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: So what else? What is something else that you might teach in this course for marketing? Because, I mean that that really is, that's marketing, isn't it? That's not advertising.

Kristen Jensen: No. And, okay, so something else I've done it, you know, and I mentioned this just right when we first started, is that I have really embraced my community. In other words, I joined, I don't know if you have Chamber of Commerce or local town clubs or business, I would, you just can't do enough of those. I would do that and then figure out what you are interested in and how you would like to give back. What you know, what kind of charity, if any charity at all, do you want to give back your services and donate something at a silent auction, you know, for a charity. Or do you want to actually shoot for the charity.

Andrew Hellmich: So how does that help you? How does that help your business?

Kristen Jensen: It's a direct, it's unbelievable, like, for instance, I donated a family portrait at the Natural History Museum in New York City last month. And those people who won my photo shoot, first of all, it brought in, like, you know, $1,800 to the museum. Right? Then the people who actually bid on it and have the shoot, they know five people. So I'm making business, you know, it's just, it's like, this one connects to that one. So it's just a wonderful way to expand your business. Plus everybody that's at the event is going to take your card or see what you're offering. So, and it's free.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice.

Kristen Jensen: So I really, I mean, I probably overdo too many charities, because I find I spread myself thin so, because once they catch on to you, though, they'll keep asking, and then you have to avoid it. But I'm involved with three or four charities at the moment, and a couple documentaries that I'm working on that are all charity, and they're just my private project. They're cool, because I can be creative in their private projects.

Andrew Hellmich: And then you'll see work come out of those private projects.

Kristen Jensen: I do. I mean it, work comes, you know, the thing is, if you, if you are, you know, have a customer, you know, you want to make your customer happy, and you have follow up. Customers will come back to me for different shoots. For instance, I photographed a woman who sells real estate and her partner, this is like years ago, and I photographed them, and then a year later, she sent me her son, who's an actor on Broadway, and then two years later, I shot her daughter's wedding. I mean, that's how connected it is. Because everybody really does have business. I mean, our business is our database. And that would be another thing I would say recommend, is that how critical your database is, how everybody you know is connected. And one thing that I'm going to start doing is that I'm going to start putting anniversary dates, kids names, you know more details, so that you will know personal information when you talk to them again, or if you want to reach out to them, or you want to ask a client something, that you actually know their information. There's no way you could remember everything, but it's, people are so impressed when you can talk, "Hey, how's, you know, how's your kid, how's John, how's that", you know, you just to add that personal touch to your business is really critical. And you know, email blasts I do. I've been doing since 2009.

Andrew Hellmich: So email blast is when people subscribe to your newsletter.

Kristen Jensen: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Because, so I'm actually a subscriber to that, and I saw recently that you sent out a an email for, I think it was a Mother's Day.

Kristen Jensen: Father's Day

Andrew Hellmich: Father's Day. So, because you have a different Father's Day to us, so, Father's Day, yeah. So do you get much of a response from those sort of emails?

Kristen Jensen: Well, you know, I just switched to Constant Contact, and I'm sure you guys have it too, and I hadn't had that. So the email program that I started with it at the end of 2008 was like ancient, so now I have a system that I can track, and it's cool, because you can literally see who opened it, who threw it away. You know what social media icons they clicked on about you? I mean, it's very comprehensive. I mean, it's amazing what they can what you can see. But I also think direct marketing will have a comeback too. I think there's nothing nicer than getting a handwritten thank you note. I was raised that way, and people, when they get that, they it's just amazing. I mean, I someone writes me, takes the time out of their day, and writes me a handwritten note. I'm like, "Wow".

Andrew Hellmich: So you mean not just a personalized email, you actually mean a handwritten note sent through the post.

Kristen Jensen: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. You seeing that sort of thing happening?

Kristen Jensen: I've been, I've always done it, you know, when I get busy and then I slack, and then a list, you know? And I have some interns right now, I have a list of thank you notes to write out, and they have to be written, and people love that. So you can have your logo on the card. You can do, I'm now going to, because I'm going trying to charge more money. So I want a really heavy stock card. So I'm pricing out business cards and thank you cards that are just really heavy duty, super elegant. And, you know, heavy stock, but that's, that's your signature, that's your business. That's how much you think of them. I think that's really critical, because, oh, email blast. Honestly, so people get email blasts, and some of them were like, "Oh, I love to be in touch." Some will unsubscribe from you because they're irritated. It's almost saturated, I think the market with email blasts. So I'm trying to think of email blasts ideas that are maybe have a story involved, or something personal, or, you know, it doesn't just, you know, have like a, you know, 25% off call now.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure. I mean, I certainly haven't been receiving sort of one every day from you or anything like that. It's, sort of, it's once in a blue moon. So which is nice.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, thank you. That's good.

Andrew Hellmich: I love, I love the idea of the handwritten note. So obviously that's an expensive thing to do, and it sounds, sounds really nice, and it sounds like you're getting results with that. Is that something that you would, if you're talking to a newer photographer, do they need to spend money on having this fancy stock and, you know, exquisite printing and that sort of thing? Or can they literally write a handwritten note?

Kristen Jensen: They can just write a handwritten note. I'm just, I'm just on this, you know, I'm gonna go really over the top of it.

Andrew Hellmich: So is that, is that a branding thing, or is that just something that you?

Kristen Jensen: It is a branding thing. I think it just shows it's just, it's a classy thing to do. It makes people feel really good. It makes them feel like they're special, I think. And, you know, as a photographer and everybody listening, and you Andrew, I shoot the job, and sometimes I'm on to the next job, I'm done. You know, "It was nice knowing you." But I think there's something to be said with the follow up. I think the follow up is huge, and it's something that I'm constantly trying to work on and be better at.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Kristen Jensen: And I think, I think anything that you can do that's more personalized is great.

Andrew Hellmich: And I want to take you back to the, to the referrals that you're getting. I mean, you said that's the biggest part of your business. Are you actually doing something to encourage those referrals? Is there, is there a sweetener in there for the people that refer you? Or how does that work in your business?

Kristen Jensen: You know what, I'm out in Connecticut, and I'm not in New York City. I hear through the grapevine that there are, you know, people want a referral fee. I have no problem. If someone asked me for a referral fee, I would have absolutely no problem giving it to them. But I think most of the time, people that are in business want, want themselves to look great too. So they're going to refer people they A like and B know that they can provide great images. So I have not had to do that. And I've been only asked very, very seldom have I been asked for a referral fee. But again, I have no problem doing it. I mean, with wedding planners, a lot of times they'll want, like, 10% or 15%, it's like, that's, you know, that's fine. If I don't have anything else that day, I wouldn't have anything. So for me, I don't have no problem paying it, paying that fee.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, okay.

Kristen Jensen: And that may be something if it's appropriate to ask some of these people, I don't know.

Andrew Hellmich: I guess I was thinking, if you, if you photographed a couple for their wedding, and you were hoping that they would refer you, do you give them some incentive to refer you to their friends? Or you just do..

Kristen Jensen: This is what I do for portraits. I tell them when they leave and they're so excited, and they go, and I said, "Listen, if you, if you send me to two people, two individual, you know, clients, you get a free shoot," and they get really excited. I said, "So, so it could be like, like, like, today I had a corporate, a woman just giving her portraits. And I said, I know she has kids. I know, you know, has a husband that maybe needs portrait. I mean, there's a lot of different people she knows. And I said, if you just send me two clients, I'll photograph your family", so and I give them a stack of cards.

Andrew Hellmich: And so you give them?

Andrew Hellmich: I give them cards.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, right. Okay, so if you say you're going to shoot them after if they refer two clients, does that include some prints as well?

Kristen Jensen: Um, yeah. I mean, I would probably throw-in some prints. Yeah, I work with Pictage. Do you guys? I don't know if you guys know Pictage?

Andrew Hellmich: I don't know Pictage. What's that?

Kristen Jensen: Okay, Pictage is, it's P-I-C-T-A-G-E, it's a company that's based in in Southern California, and they basically host all of the images that I shoot and along with thousand other photographers. But what's nice is I FT, I have a workflow where I shoot in RAW, I bump it to JPEG, and then I FTP all these images to a site, and it looks like the person's own website, you know, the client. What's nice is it's connected to my lab, Print Lab, and you can issue online gift certificates. So that's probably something I would do if you want to, you know, because if you send someone $100 gift certificate, they'll probably spend 200.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: That's kind of how it works. So it's a nice thing, and then you're not in the studio, nickel diming, trying to make prints or send-off prints or prep stuff, at the fulfillment center everything's in Southern California.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you don't do any in person sales then it's all ordered online.

Kristen Jensen: Everything I do is online now, and everything I do is through Pictage actually, I do all my wedding, wedding albums with Pictage, all my prints. It's a one stop shop. It wasn't like that, you know, when I started my business 10 years ago, but I would say I migrated, you know, started whittling it down and just thinking of, you know, time is money, and I can't be going to this site and uploading this and remembering to package that so, it seems to be easier.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so how does a, how does a wedding album work then for a client? Do you, you don't do a viewing?

Kristen Jensen: Oh, I do a viewing. But what's nice is that I used to be doing a commercial for Pictage. Pictage actually offers a design service where they can design, or you can design, because there's an online template, and then it offers a service where it could be emailed, and the client can proof, so and then once they proof, and, you know, depending, I usually give one revision for nothing. And then after that, it's, you know, there's a fee. But then once you're done and you're in, you're good with the album, you just click, you know, "I want this kind of album," and it's, it's all made and done in one spot.

Andrew Hellmich: So are you doing this part? Or the clients doing this part?

Kristen Jensen: I do this part, they have, this will be a nice thing, I think, to offer. No, because a lot of clients, you know, I would say, you know, 80% don't know how to design and don't care. But then you have that 20% that are very particular, and I think it would be nice to offer something that they could go and handle it and do it themselves, and, you know, be less money, that you would make less profit, but it would, you know, there are certain people that would do better with that.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, no. Sounds great.

Kristen Jensen: I don't know if you've experienced that.

Andrew Hellmich: No, I mean out here, I think 99% of the photographer, 99% of the photographers would do their own album designs, do an in-person sale with the client, and then hopefully upsell a few pages, if they can. And then that would do everything else themselves. Sometimes we'll send the album off to the, or the prints off to the album supplier, and they would do the whole lot, and a finished album would come back.

Kristen Jensen: Right. And what's nice with this is, once you test the printing and the colors and the monitor check, you could literally do it one stop shop. You could just say, "Nope, I want you guys to print. I don't need to look at the prints. I trust you and get the book made."

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Kristen Jensen: It makes it a lot, I find that the wedding albums are very time consuming.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I mean, they are, for sure. So you still finding your selling albums in today's market, or is it more shoot and burn for you guys?

Kristen Jensen: I would say most people are shoot and burn. I mean, it got to the point where I was so busy with wedding albums, it just, it went on for years. I think you have to be, in your contract you have to put that, you know, they only have a certain amount of time until they, till they get their album. In other words, you have to put some time limit on it. I mean, for instance, I had someone call me, "We got married, like, eight years ago, want to do our album.", you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah.

Kristen Jensen: It's just, yeah. So, I mean, that kind of stuff can come up. So if you are charging for albums, and that is part of your contract, and you get all of that money up front or, you know, pre-wedding, make sure that you put aside some money in your savings account, because you don't know when they're going to come back and want that album, you know, asap.

Andrew Hellmich: Definitely

Kristen Jensen: I mean, one way to detour that is to try to put something in your contract where they agree to get this done quickly.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, yeah. I agree that that would be a nightmare having someone come back after years.

Kristen Jensen: Oh no. I just it's always like, right around Christmas.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, we need it quickly.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, it's like, right around Christmas. So like, "Okay, we want this album done." And you're just like, "Oh my God".

Andrew Hellmich: Look, so Kristen, I've got a couple more questions before we get into these 10 quick questions.

Kristen Jensen: Sure

Andrew Hellmich: One of the, one of the biggest things I get asked about through podcast or from podcast listeners is about pricing, and people just don't know, or they always get, especially newer photographers, get confused about setting up their own price list. Can you give any advice? Or can you tell us, first of all, maybe what you charge for a wedding or for a portrait session, and then how you sort of came to those prices for you.

Kristen Jensen: Okay, well, look, I would just start with weddings. I think the first thing you need to do is figure out who your competitor is, or who you think your competitor is, and have someone call up, you don't want them to know it's you. You know, have somebody call up a friend and get their pricing. I mean, you have to know what your competitors are doing. And then I think you need to look at it and offer something to sweeten the deal. It's going to be a little different, a little more personalized.

Andrew Hellmich: So not necessarily cheaper, but sweeten the deal.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, because if it's, you know, I think it's the old cliche in advertising that I learned is, you know, there's the Honda, there's other, there's the Volkswagen Bug, there's the Honda, there's the Jeep Cherokee, there's the BMW, Mercedes, and Ferrari, you know, which, which car is your client? So once you figure that out, and then you can kind of put something together. Personally, when I started my business, I offered packages. So it was, you know, 1-2-3 packages, and then I went to ala cart. So currently it's ala cart. And what I say to my client, and I'm not saying this is the way to do it, this is just what I do, but I don't usually charge by the hour. I mean, I do have an hourly on there, but I tell people, "Listen, I'm with you. I'm going to be with you guys. You know, from two hours before the wedding starts to until it ends, and my average wedding is nine hours." So they like that. People like when you're not nickel diming them or coming back afterwards, you know, saying, "Oh, by the way, you owe me $750", whatever. So I do that. And part of my package includes the beauty shoot, the engagement session, second shooter, the DVD with all the images, which I used to not include, but you have to now, I think, I don't know, at least it's like that here. And then I usually do a proof book. I throw that in, and I get my proof books made at Pictage. It's an eight, eight and a half by 11 hard cover book that has six images per page. And it's basically everything that you show them that's an online version, you know, you give them the disc and that. It just, it's a nice package. It seems like most people want that. And then I tell them, I tell them, "If you really want an album, you know, you're probably going to get money from the wedding, come back after and I'll give you 10% off."

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, nice.

Kristen Jensen: Some will say, "You know what? No, I just want an album now." So then I'll just, I'll add that in.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Kristen Jensen: You know, get it paid for. Again, you can't spend that money. Can't tell you enough that you have to save it.

Andrew Hellmich: So what does that package cost your clients?

Kristen Jensen: I have, I have two tier packages, but I have a $4,500 price, and a $6,500 price, and a lot of that depends on location and if I'm working with a planner, etc.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you'll often work with planners in the States when you're shooting a wedding?

Kristen Jensen: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: And is it the planner that has often booked you, or is the client books you and then gives you the planners number to deal with?

Kristen Jensen: Most, I mean, most the time you want the planner to book you, that would be the best thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, why?

Kristen Jensen: I mean, just because, no, I guess it wouldn't matter. It's just that the planner, the planner would isn't, isn't usually a nice referral. I found that people that hire wedding planners tend to have a bigger budget.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, okay.

Kristen Jensen: So that would be probably the plus.

Andrew Hellmich: Very good.

Kristen Jensen: Just, just a minor detail.

Andrew Hellmich: So what percentage of weddings it for you, or in the States have planners or in your area?

Kristen Jensen: I mean, there was more when I started.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: I just think budget, but budgets are now coming back a little bit. I would probably say 25%.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so quite a bit.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so let me switch gears. I really want to know a little bit about your book, and I want to touch on branding just before I get to these questions. So how did this book come about?

Kristen Jensen: You know, this so crazy, this book came about, and it was so serendipitous. It was with a, a woman came to me that she was getting married for the second time, and she found my website. She's googled and found my website, and then she looked at through all the other websites and different things I did. And she happens to be a senior editor at a book publishing company. So she booked me to photograph her wedding, and then I actually worked for her company and photographed other books, didn't write, and then I pitched her the idea, saying, "You know what, everybody wants to be a wedding photographer. Why don't I just write a book about it?" So that's, that's kind of how it happened. It was, it was pretty cool.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. So how long ago was this?

Kristen Jensen: 2010

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, great. And was that just based on your experience then as a home based wedding photographer?

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, yeah, it was absolutely, I mean, from the book, from the forward on. I mean, everything is exactly what I did, and it's, it's real nuts and bolts. I mean, it describes all the marketing stuff. I mean, all the shooting. I mean, I have a shot list for every wedding, and it's always the same. My shots, what I go after, are always the same.

Andrew Hellmich: So you're shooting to a formula?

Kristen Jensen: Yes. So this is a standard operating procedure that to run a studio and to get consistency in your shots. And, um, you know, even for teaching second shooters or assistants, it's really helpful. And it mentions a lot of stuff we've already talked about.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: Goes into a little more detail. I mean, we have, you know, I think it's advisable to have a corporation, you know, it's a little more legal stuff too, but just very boring.

Andrew Hellmich: So, are there any downfalls that having a home based business, as opposed to, you know, an on the street studio business that you found?

Kristen Jensen: You know, it depends on the foot traffic. I live in a very small town. It just isn't worth it to do it. But I think if you have the foot traffic and you're in a higher income area, I think it'd be great to have it, to have more of a retail presence. I don't really have that where I am, kind of out in the boondocks.

Andrew Hellmich: So how do you stop yourself from working till midnight every night, if you've got your business at home?

Kristen Jensen: No, but you know what, it is in my office. So it's about 15 feet from the house.

Andrew Hellmich: Enough to turn you off walking out there at midnight.

Kristen Jensen: It is because, you know what? When I see it at night, I freak out. I think I have to be there all the time.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: It is hard. I mean, because it, this job, it never ends, right? I mean, people call us at all different hours and that you have to, you have to separate it. I think, you know, just running your own business, you have to be extremely disciplined and be able to, you know, have a to do list, and be able to fill that in and have deadlines for yourself to get jobs out the door, otherwise it'll just pile up.

Andrew Hellmich: So how do you manage that? You just, you just set yourself deadlines, or you just, you walk out the door at a certain time?

Kristen Jensen: I have, like, the silly like, you know, those boards, those white boards, and you take markers and write them.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: I have, like, a huge board, and I redo it every week, and I haven't read like, you know, edit, you know, and those jobs in sequential order of what goes first. Then I have invoicing, and then I have projects, and then I have, you know, retouching, and I have lists, and I have them up there, and then I also put it on my iCal. I would literally forget to go on appointment if I did not have a buzzer go off. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: That's good.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, it is. It's pretty crazy. But I think that just being an entrepreneur and having your own business, I think it's that's one of the trickiest things, to manage time, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Kristen Jensen: Get very distracted working at home, you know, you go make a cup of tea, then you're down doing laundry, then you come back in, you write 10 emails, and then you're editing a job. You know, it can be, it can be very distracting. I think it's better to, you know, if you're going to focus on something, to just focus on that and even put a timer on.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, I'm always going to do an hour of this right now.

Andrew Hellmich: And then stick to it.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, because when I do an hour and probably just like you, I, like it's done.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, if you put head down and get stuck in, it certainly does.

Kristen Jensen: Yep, definitely.

Andrew Hellmich: Let me ask this last question on branding before we get into these 10 quick ones to finish off. When I come to your website, I mean, I can see your branding looks to me like you're using your supermodel status to show that you're going to make me as the bride look fantastic, and that that sort of, to me, is your brand and that, and I love that, that's why I would book you. Is that, how did you come to use that to your advantage? And have you noticed a difference since you started doing that? Or did you do that right from the start?

Kristen Jensen: No, no, this is what I said, had said earlier. No, I didn't. I didn't even tell people I was a model, I tried to play it down.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, because you hid it.

Kristen Jensen: I, well, it's stupid. I mean, I just felt like I needed to be recognized, not just by what I look like. I'm not going to use my past. It was just a silly thing I was doing. So I've started using the modeling and I have to say that all the girls, pretty much everybody that books me, is beautiful. It's weird.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you think that people that aren't as good looking are intimidated by the fact you are a supermodel and you're gorgeous?

Kristen Jensen: There might be someone else that's kind of intimidated because I'm so tall or whatever. But you know what, they want, they think I know how to look good and I know how to make myself look good, so I'm going to do that for them. In fact, the last bride I just shot her wedding said that to me at the reception, like "I knew this was going to be good, because you know what it's like."

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's awesome. So my question now, my follow up question is, how do we learn how to make girls look good, if we're not good at that yet?

Kristen Jensen: Are you talking about just brides or?

Andrew Hellmich: No, no, I'm talking about photographers that are listening. So there's gonna be say, people that are newer to the industry, they love, but they want to be able to make brides look as good as you make them look. And you know how to do it, because you've, you've been on the other side of that lens.

Kristen Jensen: I mean, one thing I do with the, you know, we talked about the venue and the referral with the venue. I also refer great makeup artists and florists, because I want my pictures to look good, you know, and I want, I want everything to be top notch. So it's, I would say that you, you need to probably shoot more beautiful people. Well, you need, so it's like, night and day when you work with a model regularly than just somebody who hasn't modeled, it's night and day, the shoot. You literally don't have to do anything, you're shooting. I just, I just shot something some fashion last week, and there was one, one of the women was an ex-model, and it was like, it was like, incredibly easy. Maybe work with models. Maybe try, I really would try to just have more on, you know, shooting experience with people. And if you could find people that are or have any modeling background, that would even be better, because they'll tell you. The girls will tell you, you know, this is how you should seat them. This is how they should stand. This is a smile. It's very subtle, and it looks so easy, but it actually isn't that easy.

Andrew Hellmich: No, no. So, so an experienced model will know and be able to almost direct the photographer, if the photographer is inexperienced.

Kristen Jensen: Absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Okay.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, it's kind of a cool, it's kind of a cool way of doing it, because maybe what you could do is offer the model, you know, just say, "I'll give you pictures for your book", or, you know, I'll shoot some beauty, and then just ask her questions. I think that's probably the best. I had a very unusual, you know, I was very lucky that I kind of grew up in the industry and learned from top photographers of how to model, you know. But that's really how you learn anything, is on the job.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. But I guess shooting a wedding, you're not going to have models most of the time, so it'd be nice to be able to, to have the confidence to direct your subjects so they look fantastic, because that's what we all want, really, and so does the bride.

Kristen Jensen: Right, I mean, it's a win, win thing. So, I mean, maybe you just do some portraits. You know, you can do portraits during the week, or do a models portfolio, or do an actor's headshot, or things like that, I think would be really helpful.

Andrew Hellmich: Great. Love them. Great tips. Great tips. All right. Are you ready to tackle these 10 quick questions?

Kristen Jensen: Okay

Andrew Hellmich: 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, go! All right. Now I normally lead off with Canon or Nikon, but I should really throw another camera manufacturer in there for you, shouldn't I?

Kristen Jensen: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: Which is?

Kristen Jensen: Which is Panasonic Lumix cameras.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Because you're sponsored by them.

Kristen Jensen: Yes

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome. So do you shoot with them a lot, or do you shoot with them with your Canons?

Kristen Jensen: No, what's happened, well, what's happened is I started, I did my first, I worked at a trade show in New York City, PDN big trade show about two years ago, and Panasonic hired me to come into the booth and teach photographers this new mirrorless camera and how cool it is. So I had the experience of that, and then I just stayed in touch with them, and I am now sponsored by them, so I have their gear, and I, incorporating that gear into all my shoots. So for me, you know, and also I'm teaching, I'm blogging about it, all that stuff. So it's just, it's just a great camera system. I think that I would give it 36 months, and probably a good portion, almost nearly half of the photographers will jump to mirrorless.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice

Kristen Jensen: The SLRs, they're just too big.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: And we're shooting video. It's pretty tough.

Andrew Hellmich: I just ordered, I just received one of your, one of the competitors cameras, which was a little Fuji, the Fuji X100S little mirrorless camera as well, and it's just gorgeous.

Kristen Jensen: Isn't it?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: It's like, so fun.

Andrew Hellmich: It is. All right, I was gonna ask favorite lens and why? So are they interchangeable lenses on the Panasonics?

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, the Panasonic actually have, like, lenses. So they're, they're interchangeable. The camera shoots in RAW, it also shoots high def video. So it's got all the bells and whistles that SLR has, but it's, like, really tiny and it's not that expensive.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. So what is, what is your favorite lens for that system?

Kristen Jensen: I, well, I have like this pancake lens. It's a 14 millimeter. I mean, it, you know how I started shooting with this camera, really, because I wanted to be able, as a photographer, to go anywhere and be able to take a cool picture, and I couldn't with a regular point and shoot that I couldn't manually, you know, operate. So that's what's cool about the camera. So I have a 14 millimeter, a 20 millimeter, and I've got a couple telephoto lenses, but the glass is beautiful. The other cameras I've shot with in the past are Canon and 5D and 7Ds. And my favorite lens for the Canon is a 24-70 f2.8. If I had to just have one lens, that would be the lens.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool, just with the Panasonic is that the 14 mil, is there a one and a half times increase with the length of the lens, with that system?

Kristen Jensen: Yes, there is.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, I was going to ask next, what's, what's a setback that you faced along the way, during your business? Have you faced any? Was it just been plain sailing?

Kristen Jensen: No, I have. I have faced. Listen, I think, you know, the recession hit United States. I don't know what it's like for you guys, but you know, it was like, 2009 whack.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: So that was, that was a really tough year. And I think it's, what's happened, is just technology has grown so fast in general, you know, you think 12 years ago, we didn't have Google, you know? I mean, it's just, it's that rapid. So it's being able to stay on top of stuff and offer a product, and there's more people doing what we're doing, so you have something different. And I think it takes a lot of energy to do that, but I really feel that actually, the clients you have and the database you grow, that's going to be, that'll stay there, that's not going to change. So that part's kind of cool. But, yeah, I've had setback, it's been tough. I've had some tough years.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I think, I think everyone goes through it.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, somehow it worked out.

Andrew Hellmich: That's good. What? What software do you use for your database?

Kristen Jensen: Oh, you know what? I just and I know there's more robust softwares, but I use iCal. I mean, iAddress, everything I have is Mac, and I just use iAddress. I mean, I have probably 4000 names in it now, and it works fine for that.

Andrew Hellmich: Beautiful

Kristen Jensen: It's totally, yeah, totally fine. I use everything on Mac. I use iCal, iAddress and the email program as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, we're the same here.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, okay.

Andrew Hellmich: What software do you use for your batching, editing, renaming and renumbering?

Kristen Jensen: I use, you know what? I have Lightroom that I use, but I also use Bridge. And someone the other day said, "Why are you using Bridge still?" I said, "Sometimes I'll just open it and use that." So I'm probably not the best person on that, because I've been marketing things, but I'd say a combination of Lightroom and Bridge.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. Do you, I mean, I think I know the answer to this one. Do you watch what other photographers are doing now? I know you do, price wise, do you check? Do you see what they're doing? As far as photographic, photographically?

Kristen Jensen: I do. I do. I think it's important to look every now and then and just to Google them their names and to see where they're at and what they're doing their websites. I think, I think it's very important to know, and you know what the thing is? I mean, I don't know what it's like for you, but here where I am, in Connecticut, it's like, we're all friends.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: You know, we're all competitor, but we're all friends, and we'll share the love. You know? I mean, it's like "This person does, isn't going to hire me, then I'll send them to so and so." So there's a real camaraderie among photographers.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I think it's similar here too.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, it's really cool. It's like we're all sharing stuff, because everybody has their own style. And there's is, it's, there seriously is enough work to go around.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: There is.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you wear a uniform? Or what do you wear when you're shooting weddings?

Kristen Jensen: When I'm, when I, when I'm shooting weddings, I always wear black. So I wear black pants, black blazer, black T shirt or white and then I usually wear sneakers, like some cool kind of sneakers.

Andrew Hellmich: Just for comfort.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, because I you just want to be super comfortable. And I have a, like, a fanny pack, a little more fashionable fanny pack, and I just have a system down. I asked the second shooters and assistants to dress the same way.

Andrew Hellmich: I know the girls listening in and me asking, what sort of sneakers, I think I cut you off there.

Kristen Jensen: You know what I and I can't wait, I just, like, cleaned out my closet. So I just threw up a bunch of stuff. But I was wearing Pumas, and I had all different kinds of Pumas, you know, they were just really cool.

Andrew Hellmich: So mainly black?

Kristen Jensen: Mainly black and white, or I might do silver or gold.

Andrew Hellmich: That's fuzzy.

Kristen Jensen: Make it more fashion, but super comfortable, because it's like, especially if you're in a church too, you're sneaking around. And you don't want plump, plump. I find that the weddings are, they're so strenuous on your body.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: You got to, like, in shape.

Andrew Hellmich: Me too. I always come back with a sore back after every shoot, after every wedding.

Kristen Jensen: I used to when I first started, because I carry like, two or three cameras too. So that's and one and, you know, big lenses, big, heavy lenses. But, um, yeah, it's, it's, you know, you got to be in pretty good shape.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, you do. Last one of these questions, what's your most embarrassing photography moment or stuff up there that you are happy to share?

Kristen Jensen: Okay, I tell you two things. I have a couple things, but one was when I was photographing a wedding a couple years ago, and it was a mismatch. You know how you can see, like the bride and groom, the brides families this, the grooms that, they just, it was just, and they started to get intoxicated, and it was a day wedding which people usually don't drink as much, but at the end of the wedding, the groom is twiddling his ring on his finger, and he decided to take it off and throw it up in the air and catch it with his teeth. And he didn't catch it. He swallowed it. He swallowed his wedding ring on his wedding night, and so we went to the hospital, and I have a picture of like this, this rib cage with a big ring in it. I mean, I know that's gross, but that was like, I haven't seen that before.

Andrew Hellmich: That's awesome.

Kristen Jensen: Yeah, another embarrassing moment is going to a bar mitzvah. It was very early in the morning. I felt like I got up early. I stretched. I had my car filled with gas. I was completely organized. I had my camera packed. I drove, it's like an hour away from my studio. I arrived at the place nice and early. I was sitting in the back of the temple. The family came in. I had everybody organized. I got them all set up. I said, let me go back and, you know, check, I had all my cards were reformatted. I mean, I was on it. I went back to get my camera out of the bag, and I went to turn on the camera, and then just realized, like a lightning bolt, that I left every single battery that goes to every single camera in a different spot in my studio, and I left them all, and I have all those people standing.

Kristen Jensen: What did you do? I just, I had to, like, fake it till I make it. I mean, I was freaking out. I was like, "Oh, my God, what I'm gonna do, gonna do?" And I actually was able to call one of my friends, a competitor. And yes, I was late on getting the pictures, but, but we made it because they were early, and I was early, and I don't think I ended up telling them what happened, but I made up something else, but it was not, not good.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, right.

Kristen Jensen: And you know what? It stuff happens. It's like you got to have a list of all the things you got to do.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that that's frightening. That is frightening Kristen.

Kristen Jensen: It was like one of those nightmares you have, like, walking on stage and you slip on a banana peel.

Andrew Hellmich: No, that's what, that's worse. What happened to you is worse.

Kristen Jensen: No, but it was just like one of those, like, you got to be like, it was like a moment of "You have to be kidding me."

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: And then I remembered, I, that's why it's like routine, and having routine and everything the same, I think is important with workflow like all across the board, because the minute you detour from your routine, you'll forget and so.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, one thing that I do, and I've been doing it for a long time, is whenever I'm charging my gear the night before, I do them on all in the same, same spot, and I leave my car keys on top of the batteries.

Kristen Jensen: You know what, oh, so that's so funny that I brought that up. And especially cards, too.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Kristen Jensen: Cards that have been done, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: It scares me.

Kristen Jensen: It is. It's like, you know. But the thing is, the more you get comfortable, you know, with shooting, then the more slack things could happen. So you have to always kind of be on top of it.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, Kristen, it's been a real pleasure. How can people find your different websites?

Kristen Jensen: Okay, so my main website is kristenjensen.com, and that's K-R-I-S-T-E-N-J-E-N-S-E-N.com, and then I have a wedding site, which is my name, and it's kristenjensenweddings.com, so that's where to find me. I'm on all the social networks, you know, Pinterest, Facebook, LinkedIn, all that stuff. So reach out.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure, and I'll put links to all of those different social media networks and your websites in the show notes as well.

Kristen Jensen: Okay, fantastic.

Andrew Hellmich: Kristen, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

Kristen Jensen: You got it. Take care.