028: Bryan Caporicci – Wedding Photography Marketing the Smart Way

028: Bryan Caporicci – Wedding Photography Marketing the Smart Way

Andrew Hellmich: I'm really excited to welcome Bryan Caporicci all the way from Canada onto the podcast today. Bryan is a full time wedding photographer in the province of Ontario, I think, specifically near Niagara. He's also the highest priced photographer in his local area. He's one of the youngest photographers to receive their Craftsmen of Photographic Arts in Canada. And I think he's actually the youngest, but I don't know if we can actually legally say that. And look, he's heavily involved with photography, teaching photography. He's a photography book author currently writing his second book, and he loves teaching photography as well. So, Bryan, welcome to the podcast.

Bryan Caporicci: Oh, cool. Thank you for the warm welcome. You know, it's, it's nice to hear Caporicci being said in your accent. It sounds wonderful.

Andrew Hellmich: What accent? I didn't have an accent.

Bryan Caporicci: That's one of the things, you know what? When we started talking about the podcast here, I'm thinking, "Well, I don't know if I'm gonna fit in. I don't have a, I don't have a sexy accent. I'm just, I'm Canadian over here.", you know, I got, I got some big shoes to fill over here.

Andrew Hellmich: It might sound weird if I tell you that your accent does sound sexy to me. So we won't go there.

Bryan Caporicci: Okay, good, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So, Bryan, do you want to give listeners a little bit of an idea of, you know, I guess your business, what you do? I think I've got the area pretty close, but maybe that the size of your target market and a little bit about, yeah, your business?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, totally. So, yeah, I'm a wedding and portrait photographer. I'm here in Fonthill, which is a short 10 minute drive to Niagara Falls, one of the wonderful wonders of the world, and the honeymoon capital, and all those great things. So it's, it's a wonderful place to live. It's wonderful place to run a photography business. Specifically, we have so many incredible, you know, scenic opportunities here. We're in wine country, so the vineyard thing is very popular for wedding photographers. We have a lot of sort of cultured individuals here in the area. We have lots of Italians, lots of Polish families in the area, these kinds of things. So big families, big weddings, and with that comes big dollars, too. So that's sort of, that's the market in the area. What I focus on as a photographer, and I'm very intentional in doing this, is, I'm an environmental portrait and wedding photographer. So I know it's sort of this, this trendy thing to be, you know, very specialist, and be only you know one thing, and it's that whole, you know, master of all, master of none, jack of all trades, that whole, you know little thing. But I believe that there's incredible merit in being a great photographer, period and specializing in a certain style of photography, but not necessarily in only doing one type of photography. So when I say that I do environmental portraits and weddings, that's what my focus is on. I love photographing people in their environment, in their element. I love bringing in the scene to enhance a photograph. So you're not going to catch me, you know, with a studio with, you know, studio lights and soft boxes and these kinds of things. Certainly I have, you know, a lot of flashes, and I actually do a lot of off camera flash work for my business portraits and my wedding work. But for the most part, I like to keep things very natural, clean, crisp, simple and timeless. And so the people that hire me tend to be those that are in kind of more of the refined areas in life, in terms of their, I have a lot of clients who are professionals, whether that be a doctor or nurses or lawyers or accountants, those kinds of things. I have a lot of clients who are business owners themselves, and they appreciate quality work, they appreciate great service, and they appreciate photography. And so that's sort of the market that I geared towards here in Niagara. And then obviously my ultimate thing is that I am a full time wedding and portrait photographer. I do run a full time business and I treat my business like a business. And so people that hire me really appreciate that, and they're not necessarily after the cheapest thing, because my prices, you know, like you said in the intro, there aren't the cheapest prices in the area, but my prices justify the work that I do and the service that I provide to my clients. So that's kind of, I guess, in a long roundabout way, in a nutshell what I do and what I'm all about.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. And look, I can see, look, I jumped into your website for the first time just recently, and it looks exactly like you described it. It's crisp, clean, it's not over photoshopped. It looks like natural images, and you can see some of the environments. So that's a perfect description. Look, I've got to tell you, I love your work, and I love that clean look, because I think that's pretty similar to the way that I shoot as well.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, totally. You know, it's I have this conversation a lot of the times with brides where I say, "Listen, I want your wedding photographs to be nice enough and classic enough that your parents would be happy to have their album sitting on the table, but still modern enough that you'd love to have the pictures hang in your home." And so that's kind of that fine line that I like to walk.

Andrew Hellmich: And when you talk about shooting environmental portraits and environmental scenes. Does that mean you're shooting mainly with wider angle lenses and staying away from the long zones?

Bryan Caporicci: You know what? Actually, not necessarily, for me, when I say environmental things, you know, like, let's take one area of my business. For example, I do a lot of business portraits, environmental business portraits, so I sort of like to preach the idea to business owners that I don't believe in the idea of every business owner having the same portrait, in the sense that they walk into a studio with the same backdrop, similar lighting. You know, do a three quarter length, do a headshot, smile at the camera, and then go forward with it, and it's like everyone's picture looks the same. So when I do an environmental business portrait, I do a lot of them locally, because I have a great connection with the community here. I like to go into the business owner's place of business, whether that be a local painter or a local accountant or a local coffee shop owner or a gelato store owner, these kinds of things, and I like to photograph them in their environment. So sometimes totally that involves me using a bit of a wider lens. I have a 35 1.4. I shoot Nikon. Love my 35 1.4, I use that a lot. But I also like my 70 to 200, and my 85 1.4 and I find that you can still get a great environmental shot depending on, obviously, how much room you have to back up or how much environment you want to include in the shot, you can still get great environmental shots with every kind of lens. And I like kind of playing with those boundaries. Do I shot some stuff with my 14 to 24? Totally, I do. I love that look, but I also love the look of a nice, compressed background, so I like to kind of keep things varied like that.

Andrew Hellmich: So just tell me a little bit more about your business. Is it just you, or is it have you got other people working with and for you?

Bryan Caporicci: So I'm the sole photographer. I do have sort of contracted people that work with me, for me in the sense of, I have an accountant, obviously, I have a lab that I work with. I do all my own retouching. I'll do all my own editing. I do all my own culling, I do all my own album designs, and I do that for a number of reasons. First of all, I have a vision for what I'm designing and for what I'm working on. For a wedding for example, I was the photographer at the wedding, photographing the wedding and being intertwined with the families and with the story of the wedding day, and I know the bride and groom better than an employee of mine could know them, and so I feel that I can do the best job telling the story of their wedding through their wedding album and these kinds of things. So for that stuff, I do that myself. I have in the past had employees, but, you know, it's sort of, the thing with employees as a small business owner, is sometimes they work out. Sometimes they don't. At the end of the day, I like being able to rely on myself, and I know that all of my success is because of myself, or vice versa. You know, if something doesn't go right, or if I don't book a client, or if I don't, you know, connect well with a vendor, whatever it is, I have no one to blame but myself, and I guess in that sense, I'm just more of a solo worker than I am a team worker.

Andrew Hellmich: Does your wife work in the business as well?

Bryan Caporicci: Well, my wife is actually a teacher. We had our first baby five months ago, so at this point, she's sort of on maternity leave, and we're sort of hoping to structure things. One of the greatest things that I love about being an entrepreneur and being a photographer is, you know, we have, within reason, unlimited flexibility in terms of the income that we can make. And so I love the idea of structuring a life around your business and working to support that lifestyle. And so in saying that, one of the things that we've discussed is, you know, she wants to be a stay at home mom for a while, and so in saying that, my business needs to be able to support us for an extended period of time. So right now, she's on maternity leave. She's spending time with her daughter. She does come with me to weddings. In the past, she's come with me to weddings for the full day. This year, we've scaled that back a little bit, and she's coming with me for just parts of the wedding. Because obviously, with a five month old at home, it isn't the easiest thing to arrange. So, so it is, it is, for the most part, just me. I'm a solopreneur.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. So you really, you mean, you really are doing everything in the business yourself.

Bryan Caporicci: Totally. Yeah. I mean, within reason, I'm a fan of outsourcing things that need to be outsourced. I have a web designer. I have programmers that I develop different applications and software for my clients with. I have an accountant that does my bookkeeping and accounting for me. I have labs do my printing. I don't try to do that stuff myself, things that I know I can do best and I can do most efficiently, I'll do myself. And things that I can't, I have no problem outsourcing those things.

Andrew Hellmich: Now let's talk a few figures. So how many weddings are you shooting a year?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, so it's typically in a 25 to 30 wedding range a year.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, now, is that by choice or because that's just what generally happens?

Bryan Caporicci: It's, you know, I call it it's by design. So in the sense that that certainly could I book more if I really, really wanted to? Maybe I could. But I'm fairly selective in the process that I put brides and grooms through in order to come through and book me, I have presented myself and I've put I've put things out there, you know, just for example, having starting prices on my website, different little nuances on my website that will either attract or detract a couple. You know, by design, it leads me to around that sort of sweet spot of 25 to 30 weddings a year. Now, I try not to shoot more than one wedding per weekend, because I feel that after one wedding I'm totally crushed. I don't know about you, but after a 12 hour day, man, I can't even, like, stand up straight after that, so I feel like I can't deliver my best to the couple the day after if I double booked a weekend, and so I'll typically only book one wedding per weekend, so that, in and of itself, limits me to the number of weekends that we have in a wedding season. So that in combination with the prices that I set, in combination with the fact that I'm fairly selective with who I actually book. What I mean when I say that is, there's been a number of couples that I've sat down with to have a meet and greet, and if I'm just not feeling it, if I feel like it's a couple that I'm not connecting with, and I know I'm not going to be able to do my best for that couple, I have no problem saying to them very politely that "I think you should continue looking around for a photographer."

Andrew Hellmich: So you've actually, you've actually done that? You've told people you don't think you're the right photographer.

Bryan Caporicci: Absolutely, I do it a few times a year, and I think it's important because this, this is the way I look at it. Let's say that I'm not the right fit for that couple, and they're not the right fit for me. They're not the kind of couple that would typically book me, or they're not appreciating what it is that I do as a photographer. At the end of the day, they're going to be asking me to be doing things that I don't do best, or that I don't enjoy doing, or that I don't specialize in, and so at the end of the day, I'm not going to be able to give them what they want to the best ability that I can give it to them. And there's another photographer out there that could probably do it with what they want better than I could. So I'm not doing any of us a favor by just booking them, just to get the money in the pocket.

Andrew Hellmich: Now, that's really cool. Look. I've knocked back a couple of weddings myself, personally, not normally at the appointment, well, sometimes once then and but it's usually in follow up emails when you get a feeling that this just isn't going to be good.

Bryan Caporicci: So, right, totally. I mean, you have to be sort of discretional with it. I mean, certainly there's, there's some times where, if I know that it wasn't the right fit, and then they're not interested in booking as soon as we meet there, you know, when I do a follow up, when they do a follow up, I'll just be polite and say, "I'm sorry I'm not available for your date anymore." You know, because you don't want to be rude about it either, right?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So what's your average wedding package cost?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, so, so my wedding packages start at $3,900 that is, and that's in Canadian dollars, obviously. That's basically just for me to show up for the wedding. That's for eight hours of coverage. That's for proofs, and it's for their engagement session with no proofs. Going up from there, I have a couple of different packages, depending on what the couple is interested in, going as high as 12 or 13 or $14,000 depending what they want. My average booking is in the 8 to 9000 dollar range.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay. So, and what's a an average rate, sorry, an average wage in Canada?

Bryan Caporicci: An average wage for photographers?

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, and I know, just, just generally, like, what would be, yeah, just to get an idea, because I know, because people listening in different countries..

Bryan Caporicci: Right

Andrew Hellmich: Will have a different, different idea of what's, you know, what you should be earning to make a comfortable living?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, totally. So I'd say, you know, if you're, if you're, for example, a teacher starting out as a teacher here in in Ontario, you're looking at 35,000 to $40,000 a year, where some teachers, you know, after having been working for 20 years and reaching the top of their pay grade and getting all the training they can, they could be making upwards of 85 $90,000 a year. So that's kind of a good range. I'd say probably on average 40-45, 50,000 is a pretty good medium for what the average wage is in the area.

Andrew Hellmich: So, okay, hang on. So you said that you're, so you're doing about 25-30 weddings a year. Did you say your average is about 9000?

Bryan Caporicci: Yep

Andrew Hellmich: So you're okay, so you've got it. You're on a fantastic wicket.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, you know. I mean, certainly I'm doing well for myself and I've and I love the success that I've had, and definitely weddings are only a portion of my business. I'd say about 65% of my income comes from weddings, and the rest come from portrait work. So certainly, on the surface, when you do those kinds of calculations, yeah, it looks like I'm sort of, you know, rolling it, "Oh my gosh, it's making $200,000. Look at this." But when you really break it down, it doesn't come out as clean and simple as that. I mean, certainly it's not like that. One of the things that, so like you mentioned in the intro there, I wrote a book. I co-wrote a book called Pricing for Profit, Solid Business Techniques for a Profitable Photography Studio, where we basically get into those kinds of nitty gritty details. Talking about, what kind of personal income do you want to make? What piece of the pie of your gross revenue is that personal income? Breaking down all the expenses you have, breaking down cost of sales, breaking down business profit, all these kinds of things. So, you know, grand scheme of things, $200,000 you know, might only necessarily, depending on your circumstance, equal $75,000 personal income.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, sure, still, but still, not bad.

Bryan Caporicci: No, totally. I mean, without a doubt. And that's, the way that I look at it, is, if I wanted to make, you know, the average wage, if I wanted to be just okay and just getting b, well, then I could go work 40 hours a week at a lot of different places and make that kind of money. The thing that I love about being an entrepreneur and being a photographer is that I can do what I love, and totally I love photography. I mean, it's a huge passion of mine, but if I can't get paid at it, then it's just a hobby. And so I love the fact that I can do what I love, and I can run a profitable photography business and have, like I said earlier, within a reason, unlimited financial freedom in the sense that I can work as hard or as little as I want to make as much or as little money as I want.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it's amazing. I know that listeners are screaming at me right now to say, "Andrew, cut the fluff. Let's just, he makes that much money. Let's find out how he does it. Like, what is he doing to get there?" And looking, before we get into that, I want to just let listeners know that when I, when we tried to set up this interview, I did actually ask you, because I only had the Monday free, my time to come on Sunday, and you said, straight away. "No, look at Sunday's Family Day." So you're definitely not working, you know, ridiculous hours. It doesn't sound like you're working, you know, you know, 18 hour days. And you certainly have your weekends to yourself or your Sundays anyway. So that's, you're definitely doing something, right, aren't you?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, you know, it's, it's the whole work life balance thing. And it's funny to get into this conversation because, because I've also given, I've co-given a workshop that we called the Lie of Busy. And I'm not going to get, that sort of maybe a topic for another time, but basically, it was, it was a three hour workshop that we gave to a room of photographers at a little convention that was organized in Toronto, talking about the fact that, why do we feel the need to work around the clock, to not have business hours, not have business policies. I mean, how many times have you seen some photographer friend in your network on Facebook at 3 am saying, "Oh my gosh, I'm so tired. I'm working. I can't wait to get this wedding edited." "It's like three o'clock in the morning. You're editing a wedding? What are you doing editing three o'clock in the morning, like, holy cow!" So I think entrepreneurs to begin with, have that struggle of, you know, working too much. I think photographers, being that it's a creative industry, and being that there's, there's relatively no limits put on us in terms of what, what classifies a photographer and what doesn't, I think that it's a very kind of free for all industry in that sense. And so from my perspective, I'm a big believer in having work life balance. And, you know, I hate to keep coming back to the same thing, but the reason that I'm an entrepreneur and I started a photography business and I work for myself isn't because I want to be working 100 hours a week. It's because I want to have a lifestyle that I want to have, and I want the business to work around that lifestyle. And so I've been able to design my business and my life to kind of mesh nicely like that.

Andrew Hellmich: I love Bryan the way you're referring to yourself and photographers as entrepreneurs. You're the first person I've interviewed that that has made that correlation, and that's, that's the way I see photographers. I mean, we are entrepreneurs.

Bryan Caporicci: Totally and it's, it's one of those funny things, and it's, it's something I actually heard her for the first time, probably when I was fresh in the industry, I'll say maybe six or seven, maybe even eight years ago, I went to WPPI for the first time, and I did the business. They had a little pre-business course where there was a bunch of photographers talking about business things. And I had the opportunity to see Jerry Ghionis for the first time, and one of the things that he said was, it was one of the first things that were out of his mouth, and it stuck with me. And he said, "Photographers love photography, and we love the art of photography, and we love being creative. So what do we do? We go and start a business in photography, and it's kind of this ass backwards thing where it really should be. We're business people, and what we do is photography, but at the core of it, it's business and its marketing and it's sales and it's pricing, and the photography is just what we do. But I think that any photographer that runs a successful studio would agree that really the photography part is only 15-20% of what we do on a weekly basis. When you really were, if you were to break down your hours, the shooting is really a small portion of what we do. The business is everything else. And so you can be the greatest photographer in the world, but if you can't market yourself or sell your photography or price your work appropriately, you're not going to get the business, and then you're left with a hobby." So he, you know, I've really taken that to heart, and I've structured my entire career as a photographer around that.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, look, that's, it's so well said. I think one of my very first interviews with Ben Marden, he said the same. You know, "If you love photography, being a professional photographer, it probably isn't the job for you."

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, totally, exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: It has to be business first. So let's talk about your business. Hey, I mean, you're 25 years old. You know, you're one of the most expensive, or the most expensive photographer in your area. I can hear you're a success. How did you make, how did you get there?

Bryan Caporicci: Well, so I kind of break it down in a number of ways. First of all, obviously, being that we're in an artistic field, we need to be great at what we do. And I think that that's true for any business. You know, you read any business book, you listen to any advice, or you have any mentor in any industry, regardless of not photography, anything. You could be selling a book, you could be selling coffee, you could be selling whatever. You have to have to have a good product to begin with. So I think that's where you start as a photographer. You need to be a great photographer. You need to be technically competent, you need to be creative. You need to have a good body of work. You need to have something that makes your photography stand out. Now, in saying that, and at the risk of shooting our own industry in the foot. I don't know a 100%, if the average consumer, the average client, can tell the difference between an excellent photographer and a great photographer, I think that they can tell, or I know they can tell the difference between poor photography and good photography, but that top 10%? Do I think that there's a there's a big distinction between from clients being able to tell? I don't necessarily know if that's the case. I think when you get up there, it gets to be more about personality, experience, price, even to a certain extent. I mean, I've photographed weddings where I know that they're booking me only because I'm expensive. I mean, they like my photography, but even if I had great photography and I was half the price, they probably wouldn't book me because they booked people based on price, because that's sometimes way that some consumers are, and I think that there's nothing wrong with that. So, so sort of, I digress. I think to begin with, you have to be a master of your craft. And I think that that's something that sometimes overlooked in our industry, in this sort of free for all, you know, no limits photography creative, make it black and white and call it art. I think that that's sort of something that's missing in our industry. And I think that there, there needs to be a huge shift back to learning the art of photography and learning what makes a good picture, and how can we improve our photography, and how can we learn to see more creatively. Do I think that we get there by following other photographers? No, I actually don't think we do. Do I think that we get there by going to workshops? Not entirely. I think are those things part of the big picture, totally. I think there's a lot of ways that we can improve ourselves as artists and as photographers. But I think at the core of it, we need to be, at the very first, technically competent. We have to know our gear. We have to know our photography. We have to know our settings. Our camera needs to be an extension of our own body, like we can't think about what we're doing with our camera and our lenses. It just has to happen.

Andrew Hellmich: I just got well, how do you improve? What do you yourself do to improve or to get better?

Bryan Caporicci: Going on creative outlets, at least, you know more so in the beginning, more so or less so now, rather, because I'm finding I've gotten to a place in business where my clients are hiring me for what I do, and they're not saying, "Well, can you do this for me? Can you this for me?" So I'm able to have creative freedom. But in the beginning, having those opportunities where you can stretch yourself creatively is huge, because it's, it's this sort of, this sort of thing. If you were to take, you know, an elastic band, for example, or something, you know that stretch, and if most of the time, if you give it a good stretch, it's going to bounce back to where it was once you're done. Where the real flexibility comes in is, if you can stretch that band to the point where once you let go of it, it's not going to get back to its original state. I think that's what we have to do as photographers, is we have to creatively stretch ourselves and get outside of our own heads, get outside of the norms that are happening around us. And we're not going to do that by following other photographers and by doing what other photographers are doing. We're only going to do that by learning to see creatively and doing things for ourselves. And so I think in the early days that's super important to get out there and shoot for yourself. Do what you want to do, shoot it the way you want to do it. Of course, that comes after you've technically mastered photography. Because I can't tell you how many photographers are all you know, they're loving photography, and it's like, "Oh, like, all flowy, this and that", but it's like, you ask them to dial into 4500 kelvin. And they're like, "What's Kelvin?" Or you say, you say, "What ISO you shooting at? Can you come down, you know, to 400 for me outside?" And they say, "Oh, I'm just in auto mode." And it's like, well, you have to be technically competent before you can start going anywhere. I think that's hugely important, especially as professional photographers. If we're just throwing our camera in auto mode, we're not doing anybody any favors

Andrew Hellmich: Sure.

Bryan Caporicci: Because that's what anybody can do. That's sort of the whole fight that we're having right now with our industry, is the fact that DSLRs have come down on priced so much, anybody can go and buy a decent camera that has the potential to take a good picture for 500-$600 and so what are we doing as photographers to set ourselves apart, we need to master that equipment. So I think that that's sort of the first thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, let's take your career, then, Bryan, and keep it back to you. So let's say you have mastered your equipment. You've found your own style, you know, the way you like to shoot. How did you go from that stage to being the most expensive photographer and getting bookings?

Bryan Caporicci: Totally so. So that's, that's where I come back to the fact that I run my business like a business, and I approach it like any business would approach it in the sense of building relationships with people, knowing how to sell my photography. And, you know, sales are this big, scary thing that a lot of photographers, in fact, I would say most photographers are kind of afraid of, they don't like to get into the sales thing, because we have this preconceived notion of, you know, this used car salesman, and it's this snake oil salesman that's slimy, and, you know, using tricks to sell people. Well, that's not what I think sales are about. Sales are about getting people, helping people buy what they want, and we just have to know how to get them to that so, knowing sales, knowing things like marketing, knowing how to differentiate yourself, knowing how to have a voice and how to connect with people, and how to get into the community and create a name for yourself, branding, instead of just following what everybody else is doing and being in the same magazines everybody else is doing, you know, what are you doing that's different? That's going to make yourself stand out? Those are the kinds of things that I focused on. You know, one thing in particular, just as an example, is as I kind of made this decision early on, that I was never going to spend money on traditional advertising streams unless I thought there was an opportunity for me to stand out as being completely different from everybody else that was in that magazine. And so in doing that, you know, I didn't do the bridal shows like everybody else does. Where you go and set up a standard booth with standard albums and a standard tie that you put on and talk the same way everybody else does. I didn't do a magazine ad where I just put my best picture up there, and, you know, hope people would like it. Because here's the thing, we have to remember, when a bride is slipping through a wedding magazine, you're not going to have anyone in that wedding magazine, whether it's a florist or a cake artist or a dressmaker or whatever it is. No one's going to put a bad picture in that. They're always going to put their best work forward. So we got a lot of competition going out there in terms of, how are we going to stand out? So one thing that I did once that I found was actually fairly successful, was I took out a full page ad in a local wedding magazine, and the entire ad was completely white. So it was, it was a full page ad. White space everywhere on the very bottom of the page. I said something to, along the lines, it was a couple years ago, so forget the exact wording, but something along the lines of, "Most photographers will take out an expensive full page ad and put their best picture up to try to entice you. I couldn't pick my favorite. Go pick yours." And then I had my website or something along those lines. So it was this almost like taunting, kind of poking fun at what we do and at what our industry does. And did I have some photographers that were kind of like, "Damn, that's good", you know? And totally, I had photographers calling me saying, like, "Bryan, I wish I thought that's kind of a tongue in cheek, kind of a funny way to go at it", but, and it totally worked. I had brides that were calling saying like "That really stood out." And so, you know, when you stand out, that leaves room for more financial opportunity.

Andrew Hellmich: So what are some other things you know that listeners can do to stand or something that you did to stand out if you're not advertising in those traditional ways?

Bryan Caporicci: Totally, yeah. So building relationships is a big thing.

Andrew Hellmich: With who?

Bryan Caporicci: And this is key, because most listeners are probably expecting me to say building relationships with the florists and the cake artists and the wedding coordinators, because that sort of the, it's all the buzz right now, right? That's the trend.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Bryan Caporicci: That's, that's what everyone's saying the last 5-10 years. You got to go and connect, get a network. You got to do these albums and getting in their hands. Well, you know what I found, and I drank that Kool Aid at the beginning. I did that and, and it'll work to a certain extent. You know, I built some great relationships with some great people. But the thing is, let's say that you're a florist, for example, and you connect with me. "I'm Bryan." You connect with Bryan is a great photographer. I took great pictures at this wedding." "I did a creative with Bryan, and I love him. Oh my gosh, great pictures." Yada, yada, yada. Well, guess what? The next photographer down the street that opens up their business is also drinking that same Kool Aid and is also now trying to connect with that same florist, and is now also taking great pictures for that florist. Now that florist is divided. No matter how great of a relationship you had with them, they're still going to love to have more pictures from more photographers. Because me, Bryan, I can't be everywhere to everyone, and so it's hard for me to always be delivering on everything and every wedding that florist wants me to be doing. And so it's, it's obviously impossible. And so, you know, we're photographers. We all take great photos, and to the florist, to the cake artist, they're going to love all of our photos, because it's their work, and they want to show it off. And so that relationship thing, I feel like we're in an industry where everyone is going after that relationship, that it's almost been divided too much to the point where no one can have a really solid relationship anymore. And is that anti? What everybody else is saying right now? I totally think it is.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure

Bryan Caporicci: That has been, that's been totally my experience, and it's not only mine. I've talked to so many photographers that are here, that are having the exact same thing, but that same thing is still reiterated time and time again in the educational industry for photographers. So where do I think the benefit of relationships is in our industry? I think the biggest benefit is to build relationships with your clients, because that is where you're going to get solid relationships built that isn't going to be tainted by other photographers trying to come in and take it. If I have a great relationship with one of my brides, and instead of marketing, you know, in a magazine ad and spending $1,500 in that or instead of going to a trade show and doing $3,000 there, I'll put money into that bride to make sure that she is so incredibly stoked with everything that I've done for her that she has no other option but to rave about me to her friends and family, and that's how I've gotten all my business, almost exclusively, to a point.

Andrew Hellmich: I know that I've got listeners thinking, "Come on, Bryan, we're all nice to our brides. All our brides love us." So what are you doing that's sort of separating you from, I know that they're actually your clients so that they obviously love you. But are you doing, are you going above and beyond what the photographer down the road is doing for their client?

Bryan Caporicci: Absolutely, I'm going to share one thing with you, and I've actually never shared this with any, so I teach a lot, I do a lot of networking with photographers. I'm chair of our branch of PPOC, so I talked to a lot of photographers. I've never shared this. I'm going to share it, and this, for me, has been a huge, huge marketing thing. At every wedding, so I typically photograph 10 to 12 hour wedding days. Every wedding that I've photographed, to date, I have with my assistant, my wife, she's brought with us to the wedding, a little Canon Selfie printer that prints four by six prints, and you basically put a compact flash card into it, and you can print off pictures right there. So what I do is I do a same day slideshow for all my couples. So I already have my iMac there. I'm offloading the pictures. I'm picking the best. I'm doing quick edits which in and of itself, is a huge marketing tool, and we can talk about that in a bit. But about that in a bit. But while I'm doing that, I'll pick my 10 favorite pictures from that day, 10 amazing photos I took that day for the couple. I'll do a little bit of extra work on them. I'll export them onto a two gigabyte card that I have that I put in my card reader, and then while I then go and shoot the dancing or shoot the speeches, whatever I'm doing, my wife or my assistant is then taking that card in the Canon Selfie printer, and they're printing off 10 four by six prints. And I have ordered in bulk, 10 self-mount albums with my logo blind embossed on the cover. And so she'll print the 10 four by six pictures, and then she'll put them into this beautiful leather bound album. Now the album is expensive. It's like 25 or $30 but it's got a great feel. It's a beautiful album. And so when we go to say bye at the end of the night, we have this thing where I always take a goofy picture, and if you go to my website or my Facebook page, you'll see them. I take it with my own 14 to 24 lens. I spin the camera around, and we all do a goofy face. And we kind of do this little fun thing at the end of the night. So I'm leaving on a positive note. So when I leave the wedding, we do the goofy shot. We say, you know, "Congratulations again. It was a wonderful day. Have a great time on your honeymoon." And then we say, "We've also prepared a little gift for you so that you can enjoy your wedding photos right away, and you can start showing your friends and family right away", and we give them the album. And every single time, brides are blown away, like the reaction, we've had brides cry. We've had brides go and pull like their grandma's over to like show them right away. And then, as we're packing up and getting going after we say goodbye, I always kind of keep a bit of an eye on them. And without a doubt, every single time, they always go and start showing everybody the album, because I basically just made them this little wedding album the night of their wedding from pictures that we took that day.

Andrew Hellmich: Incredible

Bryan Caporicci: And they're just like, they're blown away. They rave about it the next morning, if they're having brunch with family, they're raving about it. When they get back from their honeymoon, they're showing all their co-workers all these amazing things. And of course, there's my information right there. Do I even need my information there? Honestly, I probably don't, because they're so stoked and they're so happy with everything at this point that they are just raving about me, saying, "Look what my photographer did for us. He cares about us. I'm not just another transaction for him. I'm not just another wedding, another weekend. He actually cares." Look what he's gone through to provide for us. In every wedding, what exceptional service and experience is that, that's one little thing.

Bryan Caporicci: One little, mate that is the killer segment for the podcast since I started. That is, I mean, and look, I know that. I think I actually heard this from Jerry, Jerry Ghionis as well at some stage. But I know that when I'm at a wedding and I feel like I need a rest, I'm thinking to myself, "I wonder what the other photographer down the road is doing right now. Is he shooting the shots that I should be getting?" And that sort of pushes me on. So to know that you're doing something like that, that is incredible.

Bryan Caporicci: It's been amazing. And that's where I say, you know, I would rather put my marketing dollars into my own clients, because I know that they're going to bring me back new clients that will be far more qualified and of much higher quality than a blanket magazine ad would bring me. So that's, that's sort of the thing that I like to do. You know, little things, even like the same day slide show. I do that at every wedding. That's huge. I mean, having the photos we took that day sitting on a 27 inch iMac computer that just runs for the evening is huge for marketing. Like, I've, I've booked weddings on the spot because of that. I've, I've booked family portraits on the spot because of that, because people are blown away with the quality of work. Not only have they had a great time with me during the day. You know the wedding party, for example, they're like, I have wedding parties all the time that come to me before they see the slideshow. They're like, "Bryan, you're like, you're awesome. Like, we loved this. We loved working with you. Were so much fun." This is before they've even seen a picture. They're singing my glory. And then when they see the pictures, they're like, "Oh my gosh. Not only are you like cool and fun and outgoing and easy to work with, but your photography is, like, amazing." Like, so that, right there has been a huge marketing tool for me as well.

Andrew Hellmich: So can you, can you just talk us through the actual process of organizing that same day slideshow? Are you? You say you shoot the guys getting ready, the guys preparation, then the girls. Are you actually taking those cards out of your camera and starting to process those files then and there? What's your process?

Bryan Caporicci: No, no. So what we do is, so I am the only photographer. So I do kind of jump around between guys, girls, ceremony, back and forth, all these kinds of things. So there's never really an opportunity for me to do any kind of offloading or work on them until we get to the reception. So what we do is, once we get to the reception, usually those cocktails, as soon as we get there with the bride and groom, are going to have some time with their friends and family. Have some hors d'oeuvres, have cocktails, do a receiving line. Usually it takes about an hour for that. So during that hour, the first thing we do when we get to the perception is my system will start getting, I have a 27 inch iMac. I have a carrying case, a roller bag for the iMac, and I have a, they don't make them anymore, but it's made by Lexar. It's a stackable Firewire 800 compact flashcard reader, and so it can take four compact flashcards at a time, and it's Firewire 800 so it's lightning fast. So we set that up somewhere, you know, by the bar in the corner of the room, and a table that we have set up for us with the iMac with the card reader. And I give my assistant the cards that I've taken up to that point, which would basically entail the prep stuff, the ceremony, the portraits, and then the beginning of the cocktails. So then, while I go and start photographing the cocktails and all these kinds of things, my assistant is all culling the pictures. It usually only takes about seven minutes to cull the pictures, because it's lightning fast. Then at that point, my system will come get me. I'll hop onto the computer. I will go through all the photos and pick out my favorite 80 to 100 photos. I'm looking for things like emotional impact, for dramatic imagery, for important details, for things that would really, not only showcase my town as a photographer, but showcase what happened that day that not, maybe everybody had the chance to see. So I'll pick all those pictures in Photo Mechanic by Camera Bits, great piece of software. And then I'll pull those 80 to 100 into Lightroom, barely touch them like I don't really do much work on my photos. I'm very much a purist in terms of, I would much rather get it right in the camera than try to make up for it afterwards on the computer. So I will, like very quickly, skim through them in the matter of literally 10 minutes. And so within 20 minutes of us getting there, we have the slideshow going. I leave it there on the iMac.

Andrew Hellmich: So you've grabbed 100 images through Photo Mechanic.

Bryan Caporicci: Yep

Andrew Hellmich: You bring them into Lightroom.

Bryan Caporicci: Yep. You don't do much to them there.

Bryan Caporicci: No. I mean, if there's one that's like, you know, needs a bit of a contrast adjustment, or needs some curves work, I might do that, but, but very, very minimal work, very little work.

Andrew Hellmich: And then you run your slideshow just straight on your iMac from Lightroom.

Bryan Caporicci: It's straight through Lightroom. So I have a little, a little preset set up in Lightroom, which has, it sizes the images full screen. It puts them on for four seconds at a time, adds my logo to the corner, these kinds of things, and then I just turn it around, put it somewhere by the bar and let it run for the night.

Andrew Hellmich: That's it done.

Bryan Caporicci: That's it, it's done. I mean, am I saying that everyone can do it in 20 minutes? No, totally not. Because it's, you know, it's, I've refined my system, and I'm also a very tight shooter, and so I'm very confident in my technical ability as a photographer, where I don't have to go and overwork a lot of the photos, because I've made mistakes through the day, but I've gotten to the point where I can do it super quickly, and people are like, blown away when they see it, and I love the intimacy of having it just on my 27 inch iMac somewhere discreetly in the corner of the room where people can come and watch it at their own leisure, at their own time, at some point throughout the evening, as opposed to projecting on a big screen where, you know, set it to music and make a big deal about it and make everybody watch it, even if they don't want to watch it, I'd rather people go to it intentionally and do it in their own sort of intimate, casual manner.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. And would this, do, you think, for listeners, if they didn't have the, you know, the option of taking a 27 inch iMac to the wedding, would it work just as effectively on a laptop?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, you know, I've seen it, so I've done a couple weddings with a couple other photographers just for fun here, and they're friends of mine, and I've seen it done on a laptop. And totally, I mean, I think it's better than not doing it. Do I think that a 27 inch, beautiful, you know, sexy cinema display by Apple has more impact? Yeah, I think it does. But if you're, if you're, either you don't have the iMac and you have just a laptop, like, totally, it's better than nothing, right? So I think that's still going to have some great impact.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, sure, mate. I want to be conscious of your time, and I've given a couple of great, great ideas. Are you happy to tackle these 10 quick questions?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, totally. Let's do it.

Andrew Hellmich: 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, go! Now I normally ask first up, if you're a Canon or Nikon shooter, but I know you said you're a Nikon shooter.

Bryan Caporicci: Oh, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Which cameras are using?

Bryan Caporicci: So I've got, I've got the Nikon D3s and I have a Nikon D3 as a backup.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice, nice. Favorite lens and why?

Bryan Caporicci: I would say that my favorite lens is the 70 to 200 2.8 VR. It's, it's a beautiful lens. I love the compression. I love how I can on a wedding day, be a ninja with that lens. That's just amazing. You know, during cocktails or during this ceremony, I like to be very respectful of a wedding day. I mean, a wedding day is not about photography. A wedding day is not about what we do. We are there to document the wedding day as photographers and as image makers. And so I like how I can be discreet with a 7200 and not be in people's faces, but still capture great moments.

Andrew Hellmich: Now I'm personally interested in this next one, because so many, so many answering RAW these days. But are you shooting JPEG or RAW?

Bryan Caporicci: I shoot RAW plus JPEG.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so what are you using on your slideshows?

Bryan Caporicci: So on the slideshows, I'll do the RAWs only because of I need, because I need to bring them into Lightroom anyways. And the way Photo Mechanic groups RAWs and JPEGs is it by default brings in the RAWs. So that's not a big deal. I use the JPEGs for the proofs for the online photo gallery, these kinds of things. Because, again, I'm a very conscientious, conscientious shooter. I'm a very tight shooter. I'm very confident in my ability, and the JPEGs out of my camera look great, and I'm very aware of what I'm doing throughout the day. I've actually created four or five different picture style settings. I know that's what they're called with Nikon, I forget what they're called the Nikon or in Canon, but basically, using Nikon software, I can create, in a roundabout way, different curves presets, different saturation presets, sharpness presets, exposure presets for different settings throughout the day. So for example, bright sun or reception or a warm church. And so I'll actually be changing those picture style settings as I shoot through the day. So in a roundabout way, I'm actually kind of doing my light-rooming in the camera as I shoot.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so why are you shooting RAW at all?

Bryan Caporicci: I shoot RAW because when it comes time for large prints, for wedding albums, which all my couples get, these kinds of things, I want to be able to go back and have the flexibility to do any fine tuning if I have to.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you supply the original files or the high res files to your clients?

Bryan Caporicci: I do. I provide the digital proofs is what I call them. And, it's, it's a I distinctly call them digital proofs for that reason, because I want it to be known that they are for archival purposes only. They are proofs only. All my couples get wedding albums. In terms of weddings, so sorry, for portrait work, no proofs or digital files do not go out there. But for weddings, certainly digital proofs are delivered for every wedding. And I think that if I can be so bold as to once again challenge mainstream photo education here. You know, there's this thing about not including the digital files and going against, you know, all these things. Well, let me tell you a story. I got married three years ago, and I actually, we had an Australian wedding photographer who lives in Toronto and man, I tell you quick aside this guy, he could tell me anything with that accent, and I would do anything for him. "Oh my gosh." I just oh man, I love him. Anyways, I digress. I come back to my point is, you know, from a wedding day, let's say that that from the average wedding for me, I deliver anywhere from 600 - 800 files at the end of the day. In a typical wedding album, I'm putting 150 to 250 finished pictures in that album. There's so many moments and images and details and things that happen throughout the wedding day that a couple may not necessarily want to have in a wedding album, or they may not necessarily want to have as a wall portrait. They may not necessarily want to have even as a four by six in a small album, but they still want to have those images for whatever reason, whether it's, you know, a cute little moment of their cousin that, you know, maybe they didn't want that in their album, but it's still a cute picture. Maybe they want to throw it up on Facebook and tag them. Maybe they want to, you know, just have it to enjoy themselves. Or maybe it's of a grandparent who is ill and isn't doing well. Maybe that picture will resurface in a few years, when maybe you know that they pass away and, and that's all that they have left of them are these beautiful pictures. So I'm a big believer that for weddings anyways, digital files are really important to include, because we can't possibly include them all in a wedding album. And, and those are their moments. Those are their images. Those are, that's their wedding day, that's their story. I don't think it's right of us as photographers to try to withhold that from them. I think that certainly we want to be charging for it and making sure that we're pricing ourselves appropriately for it, but to try to hold it back or have ridiculous fees for it. I think that there's that that's inherently wrong. That's a long answer to a short question, but there you go.

Andrew Hellmich: That's fine. That's fine. Look, I know I agree with everything you said there totally. What, I mean you sound like you've had a pretty good dream run, or, you know, all the way to where you are today. What's, have you faced any setbacks?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, you know, I've had a couple of things that have happened without going into too many details, I would sort of venture to say that I think it's really important for us as photographers to really give a lot of thought before we enter into too many things like partnerships or joint studios or these kinds of things. You know, it's all airy and fun and great when we're, you know, friends with somebody else. And we have all these, you know, great ideas, and we have these, this vision for what things can become. But when you start bringing together, or you try to bring together, two different visions, two different people with two different backgrounds and two different family dynamics and two different, you know, it can get very complicated. And of course, we never start out these partnerships with things like contracts or agreements or policies or these kinds of things, because the beginning we're friends. It's great. It's fun. Let's do it. Let's, you know, whatever we're never going to get in a disagreement. Well, you know, the fact of the matter is, is a lot of the time partnerships end really poorly, because it started off with a friendship, and it didn't set things out properly in the beginning. And things sort of, you know, go south. And so I've had that happen to me, and it wasn't an enjoyable experience. And I still very much, you know, regret what happened very much. And so in hindsight. I mean, hindsight is always 20-20, but I was, I would always encourage photographers to really give some deep thought before they want to go into a thing like a partnership or go into joint ventures like that.

Andrew Hellmich: You don't have to expand anymore. I think everyone's got, got the idea.

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, totally.

Andrew Hellmich: What, we're looking back so far, and what you've achieved, what's one thing you've done that, you know, you look back now and think, yeah, I took a big step up. Then that's when things really sort of started to take off?

Bryan Caporicci: You know, it's funny, when we were talking about, sort of my path, and how I got to where I am, I started charging close to what I'm charging now after about a year of photographing weddings. Now, do I recommend everybody to do that? Definitely not. It was a challenge. I was able to get out of that challenge well, and obviously here I am on the other side, very happy with my decision. But very early on, I decided that, you know, I'm going to charge appropriately for my work. I'm going to make sure that I account for what actually goes into every wedding and the amount of time I put into the wedding and charge for that, and I'm not going to sell myself short, and I'm not going to settle for a mediocre career in a mediocre salary with a mediocre business. I made the decision early on that I want to have a great business, and I want to have a great lifestyle and be a great photographer running a great studio, and when I made that distinction early on, all decisions kind of filter through that ever since, and that was one of the best things I ever did.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. What a great answer. What a great answer. I had a couple other questions still, but I think I've already covered them with you through the main interview. So I was going to ask you, what's an embarrassing moment or stuff up you've had since you've been shooting that you're happy to share?

Bryan Caporicci: Oh, man, I knew you were going to ask because I've been thinking about this all day, of an actual, you know, of something that I've done honestly, I mean, I've, oh, I, I really, truly can't think of like, an embarrassing moment or something like that that's happened to me.

Andrew Hellmich: Never, never lost any files, never had the pants split on.

Bryan Caporicci: You know, I'm so particular about backups of I mean, one of the greatest things about doing the same day slideshow, and this is one of the biggest reasons I do it, is because right there, the night of the wedding, I have a backup of all my pictures right then and there. I mean you can't, you can't ask for more security than to have your pictures in two places before we even leave the wedding. So, so, yeah, no, I'm almost to a fault very much OCD and type A and very organized, very structured. And I believe that we need to be that way for weddings and so I've, I've done everything in my power to make sure I don't have those kinds of mistakes and goof up. So unfortunately, I'm bummed that I have nothing embarrassing to share.

Andrew Hellmich: That is totally fine. I was just, another thought just came to me. I was going to ask you, I've lost it off, I was gonna ask about your, look, it might come to me in a second.

Bryan Caporicci: Okay

Andrew Hellmich: While I'm thinking of that, do you want to let everyone know where they can check you out, Bryan, where they can see your work and maybe get in touch if they want to as well?

Bryan Caporicci: Yeah, totally. So my website is, is www.bcapphoto.com, that's spelled B-C-A-P-P-H-O-T-O, .com. I'm also on Facebook, Bryan Caporicci. I'm on Twitter, at BCAP Photo. I'm on LinkedIn. I don't do the Instagram thing quite yet, but I just kind of, I was, I was mulling around with it the other day, and I think it's kind of interesting, but I think in theory, I don't necessarily fully agree with the idea of Instagram, so I haven't jumped jump ship yet, so that's sort of where people can find me.

Andrew Hellmich: Very cool. I'll put links to everything you just mentioned there and throughout the interview, in the show notes as well. Now that question I was going to ask you is, as a wedding photographer, how did you choose your wedding photographer?

Bryan Caporicci: Oh, man, that was, like, probably the most stressful part of like, my wife and I both come from Italian descent, so we both have big families. And, you know, you get into those the guest list, and you're getting into this, like, "Well, cousin this has got to come and aunt this, and ‘tia’ this." And it's like, you know, normally that's a stressful part for a couple. And, oh, man, for me, it was, it was tough, you know. And what I decided was that we wanted to hire someone that we trusted, and that I would be able to not think about photography the day of because I had, I had full belief in their ability as a photographer, and so it was tough. I mean, we did a lot of research online, and it's funny, this is, this is a lesson that I teach and that I and I now take in to play, is one of the first things that I did when I went to any photographer's website was went to their About Page. I wanted to see what the photographer looked like and read about the photographer. I don't care how great their portfolio was. I wanted to see them, to see if I think that was a person that I could be with the entire time my wedding day. And so many of the photographers that I went to their website, they didn't have that, or they had a picture of their cat, or they had another wedding picture on their about page. And I said, "Nope, I'm not interested." And so I kind of abandoned it. So that's a good lesson for photographers, anyways, but in saying that, yeah, you know, I kind of I did what we teach brides to do. I hired someone that I trusted, I hired someone that I liked, that I liked their portfolio, and then I let them photograph my wedding day, and I enjoyed my wedding day like a groom.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice one. Are you happy to give this photographer a plug?

Bryan Caporicci: Absolutely. Dave Biesse. Dave and Charlotte Photography. They are half in Toronto for our wedding season, and they are half of the time in Australia for Australia's wedding season. So. kind of an interesting mix, but he's an incredible photographer. He's a great guy, and like I said, with that accent, he could get me to do anything. So that was a plus.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it, Bryan. It has been an absolute pleasure, and thanks so much for coming on the show.

Bryan Caporicci: No problem. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, Andrew.

 
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