036: Charlotte Reeves, A Diversified Income Stream for Photography Success is Key

036: Charlotte Reeves, A Diversified Income Stream for Photography Success is Key

Andrew Hellmich: I'm super excited to welcome Charlotte Reeves to the podcast today. Ever since I interviewed Caitlin McColl, a pet photographer from Melbourne, in Episode 24, I've been desperate to get another pet photographer on the podcast. I was absolutely blown away by the information that Caitlin shared, and I know that Charlotte will be exactly the same. Let me tell you a little bit about Charlotte. She's been in business for eight years, but only one year full time. She's been building the business slowly over that period, and it hasn't been until this last 12 months, when the business has really hit the straps. It's just absolutely firing. She's got multiple income streams, a whole bunch in fact. She does the, I guess, the usual pet photography portraits that you would associate with a pet photographer. She also has a pet modeling database. Yes, you know that correctly, a pet modeling database. She's got commercial clients that she shoots for, again, focusing on the pet photography side of things. She's also an eBook author and working on a second eBook, a second eBook, as we speak, and that's generating a passive income week to week. On top of all that, she's a part-time wedding photographer as well. I know we are going to learn an absolute ton from Charlotte. She's switched on, she is motivated, and she said that she's happy to share. And basically she's an open book, which is just fantastic. So I hope you enjoy this interview. Charlotte, welcome to the podcast.

Charlotte Reeves: Hi. How you going?

Andrew Hellmich: Really good. Really good. It's great to have another pet photographer on the call. And I think, judging from what I know about pet photography, a lot of the business side of things that you guys get involved in will apply to wedding, sorry, wedding and portrait photographers. Would that be right?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of things that are sort of exactly the same, really, lots of concepts and things, a lot of different techniques and marketing and all that sort of thing. So yeah, there's definitely some parallels there.

Andrew Hellmich: Perfect. So do you want to give us maybe a little bit of a rundown about where you're located and a little bit about your business?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, sure. I'm located in Brisbane. I moved to Brisbane about two and a half years ago from the Gold Coast. I was on the Gold Coast before then. So my business has been going for a bit over six years now. When I started off, there wasn't a lot of pet photographers. There was actually hardly any dedicated pet photographers around. So it was a, yeah, it was an interesting start, and it's gradually built up over the time. I do mainly, I do sort of three main areas with my business. So there's the private sessions that I do with people, which are just like basically portrait sessions. I do commercial work, and I have a commercial dog model database, strange as that sounds. And I also do teaching, so mentoring. I have eBooks and that sort of thing. So it's sort of three separate sort of sections of my business that will kind of work together.

Andrew Hellmich: So when you said you moved from the Gold Coast to the Brisbane, how far is that? Is that about an hour or two's drive?

Charlotte Reeves: About an hour. Yeah, pretty much spot on an hour.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so did you when you had to make that move? Did you have to sort of rebrand or remarket, or did you have the same sort of clients coming through?

Charlotte Reeves: I actually used to get a few clients here because Brisbane and the Gold Coast, because they're so close, people don't make the distinction a lot of the time. So I was getting a lot of clients from Brisbane anyway, before I moved. Definitely after I moved, I pushed more the Brisbane side of things. So I changed some of the wording on my website for SEO, and just kind of made it known that I was in the Brisbane area, which also brings me within reach of the Sunshine Coast as well, because the Sunshine Coast is about an hour north of Brisbane, so being located centrally in Brisbane now means I can service both the Gold Coast and Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast are all sort of within an hour. So that was the main difference, is the access to the Sunshine Coast.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so do most of the clients come to you for shoots, or do you go to them?

Charlotte Reeves: Always go to them. So, because it's on location natural light, I include up to two locations. So usually we'll do at their home, either before or after the session, and then like a local, nearby park or the beach or somewhere exciting like that. So I'm happy to travel an hour away, basically for I am at no additional charge, just to get the good locations, because I feel locations are a really important part of what I do.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, for sure. I mean, when I look at your work, it looks fantastic. I don't see a lot of the natural light stuff, and it looks like you've got some amazing locations up there.

Charlotte Reeves: I sure do. Yeah, I've got some great ones. People love shoots at the beach. The beach is a really popular sort of one, natural places like pine forests and all that sort of thing. And also, when I'm like finding location, or do a lot of location scouting, looking, looking around for the best spots. They also have to be dog friendly as well, which is really important. A lot of places actually don't even allow dogs, or the dogs ought to be on lead, or they're hard to get to, or something like that. So yeah, there's a lot to consider.

Andrew Hellmich: You wouldn't be allowed into national parks. Would you?

Charlotte Reeves: Not National Parks. National Parks and state forests. So state forests generally allow domestic animals like horses and dogs. So you can walk your dogs in there, and obviously they have to be on lead, but that's perfectly fine. I can work on lead, but yeah, national parks definitely no domestic animals. So yeah, all the lovely rainforests and things like that down in the hinterland, unfortunately, we can't do it there.

Andrew Hellmich: So when you started telling me a little bit about your business, you said there wasn't many pet photographs when you started. So do you think it'd be easier to start back then, or do you think it'd be easier to start a business now?

Charlotte Reeves: To be honest, I think it would be easier to start now, even though there is a lot more competition now, there's definitely not, a lot more pet photographers popped-up. It's the education side of things, it's the tricky part. People don't even now, people don't understand there's such a thing as a dedicated pet photographer. And six years ago, that was pretty much unheard of. You had to really say, people that ask you, "What do you do?" And you'd say, "Oh, I'm a pet photographer." And that immediately would spring to mind is photos of, like, cute, little, fluffy kittens in baskets in a studio with flowers, you know. So you had to go out of your way a lot more back then to educate people as to what exactly I do and the sort of look that I get and the kind of photos that are possible, whereas now, because there's a lot more pet photographers around, it's more of a done thing, I guess people sort of understand that there is such a thing as a thing as a pet photographer as well as a wedding photographer and a portrait photographer, a newborn photographer. People seem to be a lot more educated these days, so you don't have to jump that initial hurdle of letting them know exactly you know what you are and what you do.

Andrew Hellmich: Let's talk a little bit more about your business so people have got an idea. I mean, because I'm imagining that most of the listeners will be portrait or wedding photographers.

Charlotte Reeves: For sure.

Andrew Hellmich: So how many? How many shoots are you doing roughly a week?

Charlotte Reeves: I don't like to schedule in more than two. So I say one to two, mainly because I have some other things going on as well, and I don't like to, I like to treat each of my clients like royalty, basically. So I really go out of my way to give them the best possible experience. And I find if I, if I schedule it any more than two, I'm really struggling for time, and I'm struggling to give them that experience that is so important. So, yeah, around two, and then I've got my commercial things and all that sort of mentoring and things like that as well, so.

Andrew Hellmich: So if you're doing two shoots a week, and you're saying you don't want to, you know, cut into the people's time. You want to give them the right experience. Is that because there's so much, there's so many other aspects to your business, like, it's not just the pet photography sessions?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, that's right, um, especially, like, the commercial side of things, I have, I've run the commercial dog modeling database. It just does sound ridiculous, I know, but, um, yeah, like I like to dedicate, I don't like to spread myself too thin, sort of thing. So in order to meet my commitments in other areas, I definitely need to keep the number of sessions down, I guess, which I guess that means I don't turn people away, but often they might have to sort of wait a while to get their session book, so, but I find people are fine with that.

Andrew Hellmich: So what would be an average spend for a dog session, like a portrait session?

Charlotte Reeves: It does vary. I have a minimum spend of 300 which isn't much. It's just enough to let people know that they, you know, it's enough to weed out people who aren't going to spend anything. So anything from sort of 1000 to up to 3000 per session. So it really depends, obviously, what people got, what their budgets are, and all that sort of thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so with your minimum 300, is that? Is that, what you charge as a sitting fee, or you tell them they have to spend that much to have their photos?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, so my sitting fee is for the deluxe session and which is my standard session, really, that's $250 and that's basically just covers the session. And then I say that there's a minimum spend in addition to that, on prints and products that must equal at least, or exceed at least $300, so the minimum total investment would be 550, but to be honest, most people spend a lot more than that. It's just, it's just to weed-out people that think that they can get all their photos for the price of the session. So it's more of an education thing. I've never had to enforce it and say, "Oh, you're not spending enough. You need to spend another $50 to make your $300", it never comes to that. So, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So I imagine once people hear about that minimum spend then, if they really don't want to spend that much, you don't shoot them at all.

Charlotte Reeves: No, no, I don't. Basically, that's a, it's written into my contract. So I have a session agreement that people have to sign, and it's got all that outlaid in it, saying that, yeah, "By, you know, signing this, you agree that you must spend at least this much, so."

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so do they just download from that from your website, fill it out? Nice.

Charlotte Reeves: No. I use Tave client management system.

Andrew Hellmich: What's it called?

Charlotte Reeves: Tave. T-A-V-E, and it's like, it's similar to, I think there's another one called ShootQ.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, I know ShootQ.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, that's it's similar to that. I think I actually trialed a few of those different client management systems, and I found Tave was the best suited to what I was doing. I found ShootQ very geared towards wedding photographers and was a little bit harder to customize to the sort of workflow that I have. So yeah, in Tave, Tave basically manages the whole thing from start to finish for me, including embedded forms on my website where people can book and that gets turned into a proposal. They go, they fill out questionnaires about their dogs, they sign the session agreement, they can pay the deposit, and also when they make their order, I can do invoices through Tave as well. So it's a whole complete sort of start to finish workflow solution for me that works really well.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so is that like a monthly recurring payment sort of system to have that?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's about $25 a month the plan that I'm on. So it's quite affordable, and it's just saved me so much time. And it keeps you organized, you know, as soon as you sign in, gives you a list of tasks that you've got to do. Yeah, no, I couldn't do without it now. I've been using it for probably, oh, close to a year now. So, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So, if I'm looking at having my dog photograph, then I would go onto your website, and then, so what's the process? What would happen from there?

Charlotte Reeves: So my website's pretty extensive.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it's a great looking website.

Charlotte Reeves: There's a lot of information on there. So my main idea is to basically educate people as to what I do and all that sort of thing, like, I've got a really good portfolio, and all that sort of thing, lots of information about what happens in a session and that kind of thing. I've got a booking form on the website. Basically they go through, they fill out their details, and then that feeds straight into Tave, and I get an email notification, and then I usually reply to them. I basically make sure they're definitely interested in booking, and we settle on a date. And then I set them up. I basically just click a button in Tave, and it sets them up as a client, and they're all ready to go and send through the proposal and do all that sort of stuff. And, yeah, that, ready, ready, go, basically.

Andrew Hellmich: So at this stage here, have you actually spoken to the client, or has everything been via email and through Tave?

Charlotte Reeves: I'm pretty much all by email and through Tave. I'm not great at talking on the phone. I prefer not to, it's always been like that. I also have a really terrible memory. So yeah, often if I have a phone conversation, I won't remember important pieces of information. So yeah, I do like to have everything in writing. And to be honest, I think most people are quite happy doing that these days, because often they'll, they'll send inquiries through because, you know, they've been sneakily looking at my website during work hours, you know. And I can't, you know, I can't really call them and speak to them, and they're quite happy to sort of do it all by email, so.

Andrew Hellmich: That's great. I love that. That's so good. So sounds like you're not missing, like, I guess people aren't saying it, it's not personal enough, because you've got that constant interaction, but it's just via email rather than phone or face to face.

Charlotte Reeves: That's right, yeah, and I do put a lot of work into my emails. When I first set up Tave, I set up all these email templates of, you know, standard responses for things, and that's the one part of Tave that I don't really use, because I love to give people personalized responses. You know, I love to respond to little things they've said in an email. I don't want to just give them a blanket kind of response to everything. Yeah, I think I'm right quite well. And I get the idea across in my emails really well, written communication, so it seems to suit me quite well. And if someone wants to talk to me, my phone number is everywhere. And I do get people calling me, and I'm more than happy to talk to them, but yeah, email seems to work pretty well most of the time.

Andrew Hellmich: So you've got the portrait side of the business, and you've also got the eBooks and the instruction, and you've also got the database.

Charlotte Reeves: Yep

Andrew Hellmich: So how, if you, if you're looking at your business as a whole, is 100%, which you know, how would you divide them up into percentages as far as, say, turnover or profitability.

Charlotte Reeves: Okay, that's an interesting one. At the moment, I suppose it's probably about a little bit more geared towards the personal sessions. And actually, do you know what? I think it's all split between all three, because it's different types of income as well with the commercial side of things, it's generally there. I get less commercial bookings, obviously, but they are bigger bookings and have bigger jobs, and I earn a lot more from them. So it might, I might get one or two a month, and it's a fairly good whack of income. The personal books in the private bookings just sort of tick away, sort of one or two a week. So that's fairly regular, and it sort of does fluctuate, I guess, depending on what people order and things like that. The eBook sales, it's a good thing because it's ticking away all the time. So I get a few sales every week. So it's just a nice, consistent source of income where I don't, I don't really have to do anything. It just keeps, it just keeps ticking away, which is great. And the mentoring sessions is another thing. It sort of depends when I book them, but try not to book too many per week. I'll generally stick to one mentoring session per week. And depending on what they can either do a two hour one or four hour one, where we do editing as well. Yeah, depending on how many of those. I get it all ticks away. So I think, I think it's all pretty equal, and I quite like it like that as well. Um, on the other thing, actually, which I didn't tell you earlier, I actually shoot weddings as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Really? Not, not pet weddings?

Charlotte Reeves: No

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, I was gonna thought of that..

Charlotte Reeves: No, people weddings. I shoot them for another photographer. So it's not something I do through my own business. I shoot for another photographer, another established business, basically. So yeah, that's another little source of income, I guess, and it's a really good way to keep my horizons kind of wide, and also lots of different sort of types of experiences you can have when shooting weddings and engagements and that sort of thing. So, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. So it's a pretty diversified income stream you've organized for yourself.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, it is, I think it has to be. It's, it can be tricky to succeed as a photographer these days, unless you're really on the ball with a lot of things, and I found what works for me, I guess, is a diversification, lots of different things on the go at a time, and lots of different skills, and also being seen as somewhat of an expert in the field, especially with the teaching, mentoring, learning side of things.

Andrew Hellmich: So just hang on, so that mentoring is that for other photographers?

Charlotte Reeves: It can be, I don't mentor professional pet photographers in my region, because, obviously, for obvious reasons.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes

Charlotte Reeves: Kind of like training up the competition. Yeah, no, I'm happy to take on anyone of any skill level, really. So it can be people that have just bought a nice camera and love their dogs and would just love to know how to take better photos. So it can be on a really sort of basic beginner sort of level like that, or it can range up to professional photographers who maybe specialize in other things, so weddings and portraits, who just want to know how to work with pets better so they can include them in their sessions, and basically everything in between.

Andrew Hellmich: So, wow. Okay, awesome. And so you're doing one or two mentor sessions a month. Is that right?

Charlotte Reeves: My aim will be to book one per week. I've actually only just released the one-on-one mentoring. I've been talking about it for a while. I did some when I was in, I did a trip to the USA in June this year, and I spent three weeks over there. I had some private sessions, and also did five one-on-one mentoring sessions as a bit of a trial, I suppose. And I found it went really well. So ever since I got back from then, I've been sort of wanting to officially launch it. So yeah, once it's all officially launched, yeah, I'm hoping to get sort of one per week that I'll be happy with that. I can fit that into my existing, I guess, workload, so.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. And what does that cost to have a mentoring one on one?

Charlotte Reeves: So for two hours shooting only, I organized the location, I organized a dog, and it goes for, yeah, two hours. So that's $300 and I also do a four hour option, which is basically two hours of shooting and then two hours of editing, and that's $500.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. That's great. Well, so I mean that you're really passing on everything that you know then, in regard to pet photography, if they're out of your area.

Charlotte Reeves: Pretty much, yeah, yeah. I think..

Andrew Hellmich: Pretty much.

Charlotte Reeves: Pretty much, yeah. I think, I mean, there always is that risk of training up your competition and all that sort of thing. But even if that is the case, I don't necessarily think that's such a bad thing. I think the higher the skill level and the better sort of end products that photographers are producing, the better it is for the industry as a whole. It really raises the standard of the entire industry. And if more people are producing more awesome work, then that's what people will expect, and that's what I think is a good thing for the industry.

Charlotte Reeves: I agree. So people are getting good work.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: They're happy to use photographers, aren't they? And pay for them.

Charlotte Reeves: Well, that's right, yeah. And you're not getting people, I mean, I see a lot of stories of people kind of getting ripped off by wedding photographers who they booked and that were really cheap, and, you know, the photos didn't turn out as well as they expected, and all that sort of thing. It's really sad hearing horror stories like that. You know, if everyone was just at a really good level to start with. You wouldn't hear stories like that, and it wouldn't give people a bad impression of the industry.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, for sure, was there a lot of that happening in the pet photography scene?

Charlotte Reeves: Um, not so much. I don't think, um, obviously there's, there's new, up and coming pet photographers. There's definitely some competition down out there, but it's more of the kind of the lower price range, I guess. That's the other thing I think if people charge appropriately, everyone would charge appropriately, that would also be better for the industry. But, I mean, you can't have everything, I suppose it's a bit of a big ask. But, yeah.

Charlotte Reeves: You look at wedding and portrait photographers, and it's, you know, it's the same there.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: I think, I think it's right through the industry.

Charlotte Reeves: True, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So let me just ask you a little bit about your commercial work. So is that for, say, someone that's shooting an ad? So it could be a print ad, or TV or magazine or radio, or what, I guess not radio.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, definitely for a whole range of things, things like packaging, you know, the pretty pictures that they have on dog food packets and that sort of thing. What I really enjoy, the thing that I enjoy most with commercial is lifestyle photography. So I do quite a bit of work for Easy Dog. Brand Easy Dog, they make collars and leash. They're pretty big worldwide brand. And we do a few shoots a year that it's lifestyle photography, basically. So we go out and get a bunch of the products, bunch of different dogs, go to a cool location, and we take photos of the products in use, and people kind of using them, and the dogs being happy and running around and that sort of thing. And it's more, it's more that kind of commercial photography that I enjoy more rather than more stock sort of style photography.

Andrew Hellmich: So what happens? So do these people come to you, these companies say, like, like, Easy Dog, and they'll say, "We want this, this breed of dog, this breed of dog, and this one, and we're going to be shooting these products", you go and source a location and the dogs?

Charlotte Reeves: Pretty much, yeah, yeah. So often they'll have an idea in their head of what they want to achieve. So earlier this year, we did, we did one for Easy Dog. That was like an adventure thing. We found a really great location, a forest with a little waterfall, that sort of thing. I went and chose the dog. Actually, I did a model call. That's the other thing I can do. If I don't have any dogs in my database existing, I can do a model call on my Facebook page, and often I'll get quite a few responses. And I find my models that way. So if I'm looking for a particular breed or type of dog or something like that, yeah, often do a model call and yeah, organize the location, scout it, make sure we, you know, sort of doing it at the right time of day. The one we did earlier this year was, sort of, it was in a valley, so we have had to make sure we're getting some sunshine there, so it was a little bit later than I would have normally shot. Yeah, no, they're heaps of fun, and that's the good thing about it, for my clients, is that I organize everything, and often they're dogs that I've know of, that I've worked with before, that I have prior information about, so I'm fairly confident that they're going to be suitable for the job.

Andrew Hellmich: So that sounds like then that if you're doing less of those and they're a good earner for you, so you obviously charge more for that commercial work, and I'm guessing that the dog owner gets paid as well.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, I always try and organize some sort of compensation for the owner, whether that's in product or whether it's just like a cash compensation for their time and the dog's talent and skill. So yeah, eventually I would like to run it more as like a dog talent agency, I suppose, and sort of try and get them more money and also maybe charge for inclusion in the modeling database. So that's something I'm moving towards. I'm not quite there yet. I need to have a lot more dogs. And, yeah, it's one of the goals.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. So the business is always growing and always evolving, by the sound of it.

Charlotte Reeves: That's it. Yeah, I'm constantly sort of working what works and what doesn't, and changing things. My website gets changed every week. That's how often I update my website. But yeah, no, I really like to evaluate how things are working and just, and jump on things. If something's not working, I'll just jump on and go, "Right. Well, what's a different way I can do this? How can I change this?" So, and if something is working, I'm like, "Why? How can I make it work even better?"

Andrew Hellmich: Concentrating back on the portrait side of things, where does your work come from? How do you get the phone ringing or the emails?

Charlotte Reeves: To be honest, most of it, I'd like to be able to say social media. I'd like to be able to say that because I do put quite a lot of work into social media. Funny thing is, I did a bit of an evaluation at the start of this year of all the clients I had last year, and where they all came from, and what sort of people they were, and age and all that sort of thing. So I did a big evaluation of that and 80% of my clients find me through my website.

Andrew Hellmich: So through SEO.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, so it's through a Google search or a link from another site, or something like that, but yeah, they pretty much all mostly find me through my website, and the ones that don't, it's either a personal referral or it is actually social media. So usually Facebook, so.

Andrew Hellmich: 80%, okay, hang on. So if 80% of your business is coming through your website, are you sending people to your website via social media?

Charlotte Reeves: Yes, all the time. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: So, so do you really know them, whether they've come via social media or directly from Google, through and through? You know organically through a search.

Charlotte Reeves: I've got Analytics set up on my website.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Charlotte Reeves: So, I can kind of see. I've also got a "How did you find me" section of my contact form and booking form, so people will, can select from the drop down list when they book or when they contact me and let me know where they've come from. So it's pretty much based on that.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so looking at your figures, then of the year. So you've worked out that 80% is actually coming directly from Google through searching for pet photography or whatever it may be?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, that was through my website, so in some way, shape or form sort of thing. So yeah, they might have sort of seen something elsewhere on the web, like followed a link to a banner ad or something like that as well. So that's kind of all lumped into the 80%, sorry.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, okay, so could still be coming via social media?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, but if it's, if they specifically said social media when they filled out the contact form or whatever, then I'll lump that under Social Media instead of website.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, the only reason I'm asking, I was sort of getting a little bit specific, because I'm really curious to know what changes you made once you've found those figures?

Charlotte Reeves: Okay, um, I actually did a lot more work to my website.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Charlotte Reeves: I did some more changes. There's a really great blog called Psychology for Photographers, and with some really great blog posts on there, she's also done an eBook on, I forget what it's called, but it's something about defining it your target client and basically optimizing your website to make it an irresistible website. So basically I got that eBook, and I worked through it, did all the worksheets and all that sort of thing, worked out my target client, and, yeah, just did a lot more on my website. So it helps that I'm actually a website designer and a graphic designer as well. I've worked out in that industry for a number of years.

Andrew Hellmich: Aha

Charlotte Reeves: So that's the secret, the final point right there.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Charlotte Reeves: So any fiddling or anything, or redesigning or anything like that, I guess I do myself, so it makes it a lot easier to fine tune. So I targeted more, I found it was more older ladies who were finding me, which is funny actually, because this year I'm getting a lot more younger people. So I need to look at that again and kind of work out why the change. Yeah, it seemed to be a lot more older. So I wanted to use the website to be friendly and to spell things out and all that sort of thing, so.

Andrew Hellmich: I love your website, and it's funny, you mentioned Psychology for Photographers, because I've, I recently discovered that website myself, and I'm contacting her to see if I can get her on the podcast.

Charlotte Reeves: Oh, she's great!

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, she awesome. Okay, so you worked out that the website was one of the biggest earners or the biggest draw cards for your business, and now we know you're a web designer as well. Is this built on a WordPress platform? Your site?

Charlotte Reeves: No, well, the blog part is, the rest of it is built on a content management system called MODX. I worked for a web design company on the Gold Coast for six years called ECBD, and all their sites are built in MODX, so I basically know that content management system inside out. So that's what I chose for my own website as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so do you think for anyone, you know, for the listener who wants to get in the same path you know, be able to rearrange things, they need to have a website that they can, they can tinker with all the time themselves?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, I think a lot of the tinkering that I do, it's not something that you can do without knowledge of HTML and CSS. So in terms of if they wanted to have a site that they could play around with, I think WordPress would be the best solution, because a lot of people know WordPress already, and there are lots of plugins and things that you can get that really allow you to sort of move things around and create static pages and all that sort of thing. A little bit of HTML and CSS knowledge just definitely doesn't go astray. If you're going to be playing around with your own website, there's heaps of online resources for learning more about that.

Andrew Hellmich: So okay, so what sort of changes have you? Did you make? And how do you measure the you know whether they're successful or not?

Charlotte Reeves: I change the text a lot, so I word things differently a lot for a couple of reasons. One, because I don't like having my text, I've had a few instances in the past where my text been has been the same on my website for a couple of years, and then I found my text on other people's websites. So, in one case, it was basically word for word, and the lady said that it was a coincidence.

Andrew Hellmich: Word for word.

Charlotte Reeves: So, um, yeah, I changed my text and my wording and stuff around a lot, mainly, well, that's one of the reasons. And also just to sort of work out if I'm getting more hits, I'd spend a lot of time in Google Analytics, also seeing the flow from page to page, so working out which page is the most popular, and if they've visited a particular page, what page do they go to next? Therefore, what is the call to action on that page that makes them go to the next page? So yeah, it's kind of, yeah, it's pretty complicated, I guess.

Andrew Hellmich: No, no, not at all. This is great. This is great. So, okay, so you open up analytics and what's, what's the first thing that you're looking for?

Charlotte Reeves: I guess, your overall page views and all that sort of thing, and keywords as to what people are typing in to find me, it's definitely a big thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so that's that ability is being removed slowly, isn't it by Google?

Charlotte Reeves: I'm not sure. Is it?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I think they've made some recent changes where you can't actually see a lot of the keywords that have brought visitors to your website. They've put them down as unclassified or uncategorized or something?

Charlotte Reeves: Right. I'm pretty sure I'm still able to see that. Maybe I'm looking at a different area or something. Well, that that is one of the things I usually try and look at.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so let's say that you do know there's a particular keyword that is bringing people to your website. Do you do anything with that?

Charlotte Reeves: I've actually ,just started running, like my website ranks really well organically. It's usually in the top, at least the top five, usually the top three results for most of my chosen keywords. I've actually started playing around with AdWords lately as well. Just to get at the very top, I've been working with a marketing guru who has suggested just trying to run some AdWords campaigns using the keywords that people find me for most so that's generally pet photographer, pet photography, dog photographer, all that sort of thing in the Brisbane and Gold Coast areas. So I'm using those keywords in the AdWords campaign, and I've only just started doing that, so we'll see how it goes. But she seems to think being, even though it's a, I think about AdWords from a web designer perspective, and I think to myself, "Ah, no one ever clicks on those ads. No one ever clicks on them. Why would I bother paying for it when I rank so organically?" But she seemed to think that people often don't even think about it. They just see the first result at the top of the page. Doesn't matter if it's a Google sponsored out or what, and just click on it and they don't look any further. So I'm testing out her little theory to see if it makes a difference.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. I don't think Google would be doing them or offering them or being be as rich as they are, if that, if they didn't work, that's for sure.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, definitely.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So this, let's go back into analytics. So you, you're looking also, you mentioned that you look at which page they go to after they've visited a particular page.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah. So you can, you can have a look and delve into, you can see your most popular pages and on my on my website, it's my homepage, obviously, because people arrive on my homepage, my pricing page and my portfolio page and my contact page, so most, my most sort of popular pages. And then you can go in and you can see what pages visit, people visit after they visit, like the homepage, like, what is next most popular page that they go to. And then I sort of sit there and try and work out, okay, why they visiting page after that, and is that where I want them to go? And I might need to make a link a little bit more prominent, or something like that, if they're not ending up where I want them to be.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So where do you want them to finish? Where are you trying to lead them?

Charlotte Reeves: The pricing page, which is good, because a lot of people do end up on the pricing page, which is awesome. And then obviously I want them to book. So I've got a nice big book now button on my pricing page.

Andrew Hellmich: So that's your call to action.

Charlotte Reeves: Pretty much. Yes, that is my call to action. So that goes straight through to the booking page, which has the embedded Tave form on it. I'll often find that people even, even if I've just asked them, because I talk to people as well when I'm is, one of the things you can talk about is like, "How did you find me? Oh, did you like my website? Oh, okay, yeah. Did you find the information on it was quite good", and that sort of thing. And people say that they sort of click around a lot of different pages in the session info. Another really popular page is the About Me page. People obviously like reading about me and my story and that sort of thing, which is sort of interesting. So I want people to go wherever they feel that they're going to get the best information. So often people will not even look at those pages. They'll just book and a lot of the time I will look at every single page of my site, but as long as the information is all there, if they want it, I figure that's going to be a good thing. But yeah, definitely the booking page.

Andrew Hellmich: Let's say they do go. They want to go and find out about you, so they go to your About Page. What do you think makes a good about page, and what do you have on there to get people from there to the pricing page?

Charlotte Reeves: Okay, my about pages is basically just my story of how I started photographing pets and about my own dogs and that sort of thing, I find I've got a fairly heart wrenching story about my own dog who I lost to cancer at two years old, on my about page that I think a lot of people can identify with that. I think if you can, if you can reach people from an emotional standpoint, that often gets them sort of emotionally invested in the whole process, so I think it's good to have that on the about page. I think that makes a good thing that way to connect with people. I guess I don't, there's no direct link, I guess from my about page to my booking page, mainly because the about page is just there to people who want the extra information. And obviously they already know how to, how to book, and all that sort of thing. But they're just wanting that extra little bit of push or extra bit of knowledge, or, yeah, to actually make the step and get in contact or make a booking.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And do you do anything to try and capture emails so you can sort of stay in contact with people? Do you offer them, you know, newsletter signups or anything like that?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, on my contact page, I've got to subscribe to newsletter form. That feeds into a MailChimp email newsletter database that I've got. I think I have around 400 subscribers on that, so their email addresses that I've collected at sort of trade shows and events and all that sort of thing, as well as people just signing up through my website. And I try to send out an email every couple of months. I've started to do monthly specials. I'm doing that as a trial for the next six months, so I will be sending them out monthly.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, and you get a good response from those? Are they, are they something that's working for you?

Charlotte Reeves: Usually I'll get if it's a direct call to action, if it's a really good offer, if it's a nice, simple, well designed campaign and email newsletter, I'll generally get one or two bookings out of it, which, which is worth, worth doing, for sure. And also, the other thing is, even if it's not a direct result, it's still keeping you in people's minds. So it's still keeping, reminding people about you. And I've got all my social media links on my newsletters as well. So often I'll get a few social media sort of follows and sign-ups and things as well when I send up an add an email newsletter. I find that with pet photography, people don't always book immediately. They follow me for a long time before they book. So they follow me on Facebook, on Twitter, Instagram, all those social media, I've got like seven different social media accounts, and they'll follow me through those, and generally it'll be something will make them book. And I'm still trying to narrow down exactly what it is that makes people take the plunge finally, after following me for so long. A lot of the time, unfortunately, it's if they have a bit of a health scare with their pet. So if their dog, you know, is sick for some reason, and they kind of hits home, "Oh no, what if I was without them and I don't have any photos of them", that might sort of encourage them to book or if there's just put an amazing offer out there, or if they see a photo that they really, really love that I put up on Facebook that may be this, that may make them make the decision to book finally, after following me for so long, so.

Andrew Hellmich: As you're telling me that one of the main reasons may be when the dog gets or the animal gets sick, I'm thinking straight away, do you market to or do you advertise, you have any relationship with local vets?

Charlotte Reeves: Vets is a bit of a strange one. You think it'd be a really great way to get in with people. And I have had displays in vet waiting rooms. I found, though, that when people go to the vet, it's often expensive for them. They're worried about their dog or cat or, you know, they're worried sick basically, they're not in the right frame of mind to think about spending lots of money on something that's basically a luxury item. So in a way, it's a good thing for them to know that such a thing exists, and it might kind of make them go, "Oh, that's kind of cool." Pick up a business card and then get on with their worrying again. So it might something that be something that kind of, as I say, gets them to follow me and that sort of thing. But as far as direct bookings resulting out of someone sitting in a waiting room and seeing the photos and knowing their dog is not well, and, yeah, they tend to be too preoccupied, I think, because, yeah, that visits aren't nice for either often the dog or the owner.

Andrew Hellmich: So I can definitely relate to that. My biggest fear.

Charlotte Reeves: That's it.

Andrew Hellmich: Before we get into these 10 quick questions, what are some other, it sounds like your website is like the real hub of Charlotte Reeves Photography. So are you doing anything else to bring people to the website?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, actually, I've got a few different things on, um, my best hot tip.

Andrew Hellmich: Here we go.

Charlotte Reeves: Is coffee shops. Coffee shops and cafes, because coffee is such a huge, huge culture, it is in Brisbane. I'm pretty sure it is Australia wide. Everyone goes into a coffee shop and stands there waiting for their coffee. And I get postcards made up and business cards, and I get a few different, like, five or six different dogs on them, and put them in in basically the waiting areas at coffee shops. And while people are there, often they'll be just on their phone or whatever. They'll see them, and they'll flick through the different cards and go, "Oh, this one's cool." And they'll pick out their favorite, you know, their favorite dog on the postcard, and take that. I've experimented in the past with using QR codes, you know, the little square barcodes?

Andrew Hellmich: Yes

Charlotte Reeves: On the back. So people can actually stand there while they're waiting for the coffee and scan the postcard and go straight to my Facebook page on their phone.

Andrew Hellmich: Does it work?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, it has worked. Yeah. I don't put them on anymore because I ran out of space on the back of the card. I need to start putting them on again. The other thing I do is, you know, fenced-in dog parks.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes

Charlotte Reeves: Often I'll get laminated signs made up with a QR code on it, and put them on. Often, they don't hang around for very long because it rains and, you know. And people take them down because they don't believe in advertising on dog parks and stuff. But, um, yeah, that's another one. But yeah, definitely coffee shops and cafes. Anywhere that people are standing around in their leisure sort of thing, waiting, waiting for something, looking for something to entertain them. People or just always need to be entertained these days, I found, so and if you can provide that, and if you just happen to come across people that are really keen on their dogs, it'll just, it just speaks to them straight away. And it's like, "Oh, this is interesting. Cool. I might go check that out."

Andrew Hellmich: Perfect. I love that. That's great. So one, one question, though, why do you send them to your Facebook page instead of your website?

Charlotte Reeves: Because there's often a lot more up to date, I guess, happening on the Facebook page, and it will remind them, and they will like the page and be continually reminded by things. So have my posts pop-up in their feed. If I send them to my website, they might look at my website and go, "Oh, this is kind of cool", and then get distracted, and before they've had a chance to do anything about it, they're off, and I've lost them.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice.

Charlotte Reeves: Whereas, if I send them straight to a Facebook page, usually, if you like a Facebook page, what do you do? You go, "Oh, this is cool." Click Like, and therefore you've got them. That's it. That's the way to capture them.

Andrew Hellmich: Perfect. I love it. That's great. Perfect answer, that makes total sense. I love that. That's great. Then before we can have these quick questions, so with your Facebook posts or and information you're putting up on there, is that always to draw people then back to your website, or you just treat that as a separate source of?

Charlotte Reeves: It's not always to draw people back to my website, because I find if you continually getting people to like encouraging people to get off Facebook, people don't like getting off Facebook. Sorry, people like staying on Facebook for hours and hours.

Andrew Hellmich: Facebook don't like it either.

Charlotte Reeves: I know. So if you can enable that, and I often found, yeah, exactly, Facebook don't like it either. So often, if you, if you just continually posting links back to your website, they don't get as many views.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes.

Charlotte Reeves: So yeah, generally, I mean, I'm in the everywhere, all the photographers that are listening, they're in the business of imagery. So, and that's what, that's what seems to do really well on Facebook. So, yeah, I post photos up there. I post sneak peeks from my sessions and anything else that I've got going on nice, big, vibrant, likable photos, generally.

Andrew Hellmich: Do your sneak peeks go up before or after the client's seen the photos?

Charlotte Reeves: I do about two to three sneak peeks before the clients have seen all the photos. But I don't put an online gallery up before the ordering session. They see all their photos for the first time at the ordering session. And I often, when I'm putting sneak peeks up, I don't put, I hold back the best photo, or let the second or third best photo, so that when they come to the ordering session, there's always another, really, a bunch of other really awesome photos that they haven't already seen.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, I've got questions popping into my head like crazy here. So let me then ask ,you've got seven sources of social media you're trying to manage. I don't know how you do that, but so do you use the same images then, across all forms of social media? Are you looking for different shots for everyone?

Charlotte Reeves: I try to mix it up a little bit. So obviously, I put my best photos on Facebook because that's the biggest one. Facebook actually links in with like, automatically feeds to Twitter. Occasionally, I'll put a just a text post up on Twitter, and also my social, my email newsletter, gets feed into Twitter. I've got a few other things feeding into Twitter, but I don't usually post on Twitter directly. On Instagram, Instagram I use for sometimes sort of sneak peeks and nice edited SLR photos, and a lot of times just phone photos, but on location, scouting photos of client orders, photos of my own dog, just sort of a lot more behind the scenes sort of stuff. I'm getting quite a few more followers on Instagram, so I've found that, so that's a really good one. YouTube, I post up video tutorials for editing in Lightroom and Photoshop.

Andrew Hellmich: So that's actually to help other photographers. It's not so much..

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, that's more of a tool to establish me as the expert in the field, I guess.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice

Charlotte Reeves: Which, which helps when I'm trying to sell eBooks and mentoring sessions and do workshops and all that sort of thing. So, yeah, YouTube's more for other photographers, not so much for, I definitely should utilize it more. I have a bunch of ideas I want to try on YouTube. But yeah, there's only so many things you can do, only so many hours in a day.

Andrew Hellmich: You need to start outsourcing some of your stuff.

Charlotte Reeves: Oh, yeah, big thing to get over, I guess.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm gonna get you back on in a couple of years’ time, when you're gonna be huge and have all these outsources.

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, we're gonna see..

Andrew Hellmich: Well, you ready for these 10 quick questions? Sure. Okay, here we go, 10 quick questions, 10 quick answers, 3-2-1, go! Canon or Nikon?

Charlotte Reeves: Canon

Andrew Hellmich: Favorite lens and why?

Charlotte Reeves: Ah, 35 mil, 1.4 L.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, what were you gonna say? A 100 what?

Charlotte Reeves: Oh, I've got 100 L macro that I really, really like that I've only had for a few months. It's like the in thing right now. But probably the 35 1.4 is that, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: That's the go to?

Charlotte Reeves: It's a toss-up between those two.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you shoot JPEG or RAW?

Charlotte Reeves: RAW

Andrew Hellmich: What, have you faced any setbacks along the way?

Charlotte Reeves: I have, yeah, not having enough time to devote to it. I've had to work full time in the past, a few years ago due to financial commitments and things, so not having enough time to put into it, I guess.

Andrew Hellmich: How did you get back out of that, to quit the full time job?

Charlotte Reeves: It was, I've had the full time job for most of the time that I've had my business as well, but it's sort of fluctuated from between full time and part time, and I've just got out of it basically by sorting things out so I didn't have to work full time and could cut back to sort of two or three days a week with my job, so I could then dedicate more time to my business again.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, was there one or two things you did to be able to go full time that you changed in the business. Was it like, did you put your prices up? Did you get more bookings?

Charlotte Reeves: It was not really business dependent. It was more kind of personal financial dependent. It was more that I managed to sort that out and then could devote more time to the business.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: All right. Is there one thing you can look back on in your journey so far and think, yeah, that's when I took a big step forward in business?

Charlotte Reeves: Actually, yeah, I guess, my website, because, I mean, I've been a website designer for a long time, but I used to have just a templated website, like a template flash website. There's a company that does it, so many photographers have them, and I was so lazy. I just, I didn't see the importance of having my own custom website and blog. And then I just realized I'm like, "What on earth am I doing? I'm a website designer. Make yourself a decent website. Charlotte", so I did that. Yeah, things seem to take off from there. And also quitting my job as well earlier this year was a big thing, and devoting full time 100% to my business.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice one.

Charlotte Reeves: Massive thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Awesome. What software do you use for your batching, editing, renaming and renumbering?

Charlotte Reeves: Lightroom.

Andrew Hellmich: You use that for everything?

Charlotte Reeves: I use Lightroom for probably 80% of everything, all that kind of stuff anyway. All I use Photoshop for is, is final editing, finishing up. So removing objects, removing leashes, yeah, any, any, just final editing that needs to be done. But, yeah, I'm definitely a Lightroom girl. I've been using Lightroom since before it was Lightroom, used to be called Raw Shooter Essentials. It was owned by a different company, and then Adobe, Adobe bought it. So yeah, Lightroom, for a long time.

Andrew Hellmich: You're a big fan.

Charlotte Reeves: Huge fan.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you watch what other photographers are doing in your niche?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, I do. I try not to obsess about it, because I think that's not healthy for anyone. But I think it's good just to develop that sense of community. I think, because I often have a bunch of photographers that I follow, and I've, you know, talk to them personally, and we send messages to each other and stuff, and I think it's, it's good to just maintain friendships and keep an eye on what everyone's doing, just for that, just for that sense of community and exchange. And I'm a member of the Beautiful Beasties website forum as well, and there's a lot of photographers on there, so.

Andrew Hellmich: What do you wear when you're shooting?

Charlotte Reeves: Ah, usually cargo pants. I like the pockets and they're nice. They're nice and hard wearing as well. So yeah, definitely cargo pants. And usually just a singlet. I've got a couple with my logo on them that I wear, but I don't worry too much about that. And just yeah, sensible stuff, because I often spend a lot of time on the ground, bowling around on the ground. It doesn't really go well with wearing nice clothes.

Andrew Hellmich: It's not like shooting newborns in the studio then?

Charlotte Reeves: No, no, there's no way to be stylish when you're photographing dogs.

Andrew Hellmich: Two more, two more, quick questions. First, I may not be as quick, let's say you had to pack up everything and to start again in a new country and you had nothing. What would you do to generate business from the start? What would be the first thing you do?

Charlotte Reeves: Wow, okay, that's pretty good question. I, something I didn't mention during this interview is the amount of work that I do for rescues and shelters. So charity work, volunteering my time to photograph adoptable dogs and cats looking for new homes. That is also a really good way of networking and get your name, getting your name out there as well. So if I were to move to an entirely new place, the first thing I would be doing is looking for, so a local shelter or rescue organizations that I could volunteer my time to kind of get in and start talking to people and also helping out. So it's a really good way of working out, sort of the contacts that are available and the opportunities that are available in the area.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So they send you work as well, and do they, or they just become?

Charlotte Reeves: They actually, I get referrals from rescue organizations. Things like that. So, um, that's always good. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice one. All right, what's an embarrassing moment or stuff up you've had while shooting that you're happy, you're happy to share?

Charlotte Reeves: Wasn't actually doing shooting, it was doing an ordering session. Is that okay?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, you bet.

Charlotte Reeves: Okay, cool. You thought it was going to involve dog poo, didn't you? Thankfully not. No, I haven't had any emergencies like that. No, it was when I first started. I first started doing ordering sessions in about 2009 and I lived in a house with polished wooden floors, and I think it was about my second ordering session ever. And I had everything set out in the lounge room in my house, and I had all the products there. And I'm going through the images, and we're talking about their order, and there was one particular image that they wanted to know if it would look better cropped a different way. And I said to them, "Oh, look, I'm not sure. I'll just have to go and have a look at the original file. Give me two seconds and I'll just go up to my computer." And so I walked out of the room to head up to my computer to look at the file. And I was wearing socks, and I was a little bit excited, nervous, and, yeah, fell on my ass, right in front of the client, straight over my feet, swept out from underneath. I landed the bang. So it was really, really embarrassing.

Andrew Hellmich: How did you get out of that one? Did you brush yourself off and?

Charlotte Reeves: We said, "Oh, silly me, I'm so clumsy." Oh, they were pretty understanding. They were nice.

Andrew Hellmich: I still can't believe you haven't got a dog poo story.

Charlotte Reeves: I know you think, like I've probably stood on it a few times not realize. I don't know. It's never, I've never had a major, I'm totally touching wood here, because it's destined to happen at some stage, I'm sure.

Andrew Hellmich: Charlotte, you've been so generous and you've shared so much. So how can, how can people check out your website? Where can they find you? And you don't have to give me all seven social media outlets. I'll definitely put links to all of those in the show notes. But what about the main ones?

Charlotte Reeves: Okay, so my website is charlottereeves.com.au, you can find me on Facebook at forward slash Charlotte Reeves Photography.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. Like I said, I'll add links to those and all the different social media outlets that you're on, so people can stalk you.

Charlotte Reeves: Awesome. That'd be great.

Andrew Hellmich: And if anyone's got any questions, are you happy if they post them in the show notes after this interview and..?

Charlotte Reeves: Yeah, go for it. I'm happy to help out.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. Thanks again, Charlotte, you've been an absolutely amazing guest. It's been awesome.

Charlotte Reeves: Okay, no. Thank you for the opportunity. It's been great talking to you.