431: Rick Liston – Become a wedding venue promoter and watch your photography business boom

431: Rick Liston - Become a wedding venue promoter and watch your photography business boom

 

Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest is an Aussie based wedding photographer who photographs on average 90 weddings each year. In the last year, it was 115 weddings. And on average, his clients spend an incredible $4,000 or more. And because of the large number of weddings, he has focused a lot on his systems and his post wedding workflow to allow him more time with his family. In addition to his weddings, he's created the Yarra Valley Wedding Guide, which looks like a professionally designed and printed magazine for couples looking for inside info on venues, accommodation, vendors, and wedding photography ideas for couples planning their Yarra Valley wedding. The magazine alone looks like it'd be a marketing gold mine. I'm talking about Rick Liston from Melbourne, Australia, and I'm rapt to have him with us now. Rick, welcome mate.

Rick Liston: Thank you very much. Andrew, very pleased to be here.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, is it true what I said about the guide? Is it a marketing gold mine?

Rick Liston: You know what? It's one of those things there, it was a great lockdown project, and I'm actually probably not even still getting the benefit of it. So I've got it there as the download collecting, you know, tons of hundreds of email lists, of email addresses from people downloading it. So they're certainly finding me to book me for their wedding day. And I also use it to promote a wedding package as well, for people who have gone through it and then maybe reconsidering. But yeah, there's still actually, I think, a ton of value left on the table, which I don't know, maybe you got some ideas, because after, like, I can only shoot so many weddings. So all these other hundreds of people that are reading through the guide that I can't shoot, I haven't got in touch with, but I do have their email addresses. I can't help but feel, I know there's a journey that they're going on. They're going to be spending, you know, tens of thousands of dollars in the next year. How do you, what do you reckon is a great way to, I don't know, to keep offering something that you can actually still keep monetizing?

Andrew Hellmich: If you're asking me, at moment, the obvious answer is, associate shooters, so you can keep servicing those clients. Otherwise, maybe some kind of affiliate program where you pass it on to other photographers and they give you a cut. They're the first two things that come to mind. I mean, surely you must have started to explore ideas like that.

Rick Liston: Yeah, there certainly, I mean, the commission cut is opposite. It's a bit of a balancing act in a, I don't know it's a relationship, I'm not actually that keen to go down, just because so much of my career has been built on great relationships. But for me, I think, yeah, a travel agency, right? So I guess the honeymoon side of it afterwards. That, you know, every person that's going reading through that magazine is probably going to be booking a honeymoon at some stage, and 10% on a, you know, business class trip to overseas hotel stay is, I know there's a bit of money on the table there. So something I'm keen to explore in the future. But yes, it is strictly from marketing point of view of booking new weddings. It has been, has been a gold mine.

Andrew Hellmich: What did you mean by the business class, say, 10% honeymoon package? What were you thinking there?

Rick Liston: Okay, so if you can direct people to a travel agent to book their honeymoon, okay? Deals like basically, how they work, they can come in and offer couples the same price that they would be paying if they just went and booked. You know, their flights and their hotel themselves, except you're getting, you know, first class service. Because you're getting someone who's looking after you, riding ahead to the hotels, making sure they're champagne on arrival. And then what they're able to they get a cut from the hotels and the airlines, and they can pay you a commission on those two. So that's something I've had to chat with the travel agent before, funnily enough, right at the start of lockdown. So not a whole lot of international honeymoons coming after that, but certainly keen to get into that but once we open up again.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. I love it. Okay. And for the listener that's totally lost, just give us an idea about these wedding guides. Because, I mean, I described it as a printed magazine, but I know it's also a download. Is it actually a printed product or only a download?

Rick Liston: Yeah, it's a printed product as well, that I give to vendors and some of the like, the settlements and the venues that are in there. But certainly also, a downloadable product that definitely every one of my couples get. I mean, it's such an easy point of authority for when they inquire with me and I send out my lead response, I send a link to the downloadable guide, which they can then go in, have a look through, and they just see how much of the Yarra Valley that I know. How safe they're going to be in my hands, the accommodation that's close by to their wedding venue. My tips for whether you're going to do first look or not, how to get killer photos. The reasons behind the recommendations that I'm making for all the different vendors, it basically makes them question going for anyone else, I think, just because the risk that they would take was going someone that doesn't know the area as well as I do.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, and look, and the way that you're talking about it is all 100% true, but I think you're even under selling it because I downloaded it before we recorded the interview, and it looks beautiful. It looks amazing. It's got your photography all the way through it. It features all the vendors that you work with and recommend, and shows them actually doing the work that they do. I mean, you could not get a better marketing tool. It's amazing.

Rick Liston: What's, I mean you know what? It makes so much more sense to me to try to get couples further up the food chain than when they're looking for a wedding photographer. So I honestly built my business on getting them. When they're kind of searching for their wedding venues when they're just getting married. So if I can serve them on that choice, that's why there's so much in that. In that guide about wedding venues, and I have, like, my most well performing blog posts is on wedding venues in the area. Because we actually have a lot more to offer, I think, than any other person out there. As wedding photographers, in recommending wedding venues, we're there throughout the entire day, we get to see what happens in good weather, bad weather, how the staff are treating the couples. There's every reason that they should be listening to us, rather than like a directory in just listing, you know, whatever, all the venues that are available. Like we actually have the best opinion, I think that, and that's something that if I was them, I would be spending time reading. And not only that, we can actually write well, make a cool website, make a guide, killer photos, like we can put all that marketing material together. And I really think we can probably promote the venue sometimes better than they can themselves. So just immediately, does a couple of things, gets you in the door there for them, before they're even considering a wedding photographer. And it's also doing a hell of a lot to promote the wedding venues themselves, which they will never forget. So if you're helping earn them money, you're just becoming a vital part of their business, rather than just another functional photographer who maybe emails them now then asking to get on their list, like you're, you're they know. They know. They ask their couples, you know, how are they finding them? And they'll be told, "We read it in, you know, Rick's Wedding Guide. We found it on his blog." So that kind of help is always reciprocated, and that's always going to be just a sustainable source of leads for me, just hundreds of leads a year. And it means I don't need to sit there trying to appease the social algorithm, ignoring my daughter, ignoring my wife, trying to make reels.

Andrew Hellmich: So when you say reels, are you talking about Instagram? Is that you're talking about the social media reels?

Rick Liston: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's just something I obviously got a personal brief for, because I know, you know, at 6pm that's the best time. You got to be there, spending an hour beforehand. You know, engaging with your audience, dropping your posts, sitting around for an hour afterwards, you know, engaging with everyone. But at 6pm like, that's when my wife's home, that's where my daughter's home from school. I want to be spending that time with them. If I'm not here serving them first, what am I doing? There's no point to any of this. Like, that's my purpose here, is those two ladies right there that I'm very blessed to have in my life.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure, I love that. Just going back to the guide, so I'm getting the idea that it's reasonably new because you said you started it in lockdown, or as a part of lockdown project. Have you actually had venues inquire about getting into or other vendors inquiring to get into the guide?

Rick Liston: Definitely.

Andrew Hellmich: Really.

Rick Liston: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: And is it just a straight out yes, or is there a fee? Or do you, what happens?

Rick Liston: Not a single fee. There's no commission on any of it. So it's all based on, if I think you're a legend, I think you're an awesome fit, you're in. I mean, there's, there's, I don't want to overwhelm it with too many options, and I'm pretty happy with where it's at. But certainly, as I end up working with new people, and I'm like, "All right, they're actually awesome." And you know what else? If there's people in there that aren't supporting me back, aren't supporting my family, then I'll go with someone who is.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So have you had to say no to someone or turn someone down?

Rick Liston: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: So how does that play out?

Rick Liston: Um, awkwardly. Oh, look, basically, I just, I just let them know. Yeah, the truth. So a lot of the cases, whatever field it is, like, I've had, you know, long standing relationships with the people that I am recommending there, and I'm not that keen to take on anymore.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. Okay, so it's pretty cut and dry. And if there's, like, I guess you're saying something like, "If there's a spot that comes available, or when we get a chance to work together, then we can talk about it."

Rick Liston: Yeah, that's right.

Andrew Hellmich: Cool. And the guide itself, did you design it? Did you employ a designer? Did you download a template?

Rick Liston: Template, mate. Creative Market. I actually couldn't, I designed another one, and I was just about to publish it. And then I thought it was so funny. I thought, I'll just check out and see if there's anything else on here. And he was on creativemarket.com I think it is. And, yeah, found a template. I was just like, "Oh sh*t,." Sorry, Andrew, I forgot, sorry I'm on the podcast, but I realized all the time I'm gonna have to now take redesigning it, because it's just looked way better, like, so, yeah, it wouldn't make any sense to me. I'm not a designer to try and design the thing myself. I had to design, like, obviously, some pages you know. It wasn't set up to be a wedding photography guide, but it was really a fantastic base. And I don't need it to be, done is better than perfect. So I just needed it done basically.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. I'm guessing that creativemarket.com is something like Etsy, where you can download all different templates.

Rick Liston: Correct, yeah, yeah. Correct. So there was a, I think it was like a 60 page kind of magazine template that was there, and then the guide itself is about 100 pages. So yeah, took some of the templates that worked and then built what I needed to around it.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, right. Nice. So for the ones that you printed, I'm guessing they're only going into the venues that you want to be working with or that are featured in the magazine. Did you put a lot of money into that printing?

Rick Liston: Ah, they are about 20 to $30 each magazine. So, I mean, I'm not printing in the kind of volumes that, you know, where you can bring those costs down. They're also pretty nicely done, because I also had the intention of bringing them and giving them to people as I meet them. But funnily enough, since the lockdown, there just really hasn't been a whole lot of that. So you know, we switched to Zoom meetings, which is just another thing that I've actually loved. Somehow everyone arrives on time, including me, and I know we're kind of done in half an hour, not, because I live in Healesville, and a lot of my couples were in the city. Sorry to be digressing again, Andrew, seem to be doing that a fair bit. I would have to be, you know, traveling half an hour, 45 minutes to get to the meeting, sit around for two hours, come home, and it was just, it was just kind of every weeknight, right? So I was just, it was like, "This is too much time." And then once we started doing Zoom meetings during the lockdown, I realized, you know what, actually I'm converting as good as any other time. So this is now the only way off from I offer my meetings.

Andrew Hellmich: So good. And at the digital format of the magazine looks beautiful. I mean, you got like, a page turning app there in the background, or at the back end of the website. Is that something special that you had done?

Rick Liston: That was just a, there was an application for it. But you know what, I'm all, I'm in two minds about that. Now, perhaps you can tell me having looked at it, seeing the design. I know I'm missing out on having all that content on my side. I've got a fair bit, like, "I don't really have a problem with traffic. I get a ton of traffic to the side." I get a ton, a ton of booking so, but I am just looking at all the content there. And I'm kind of angry that, all right, that's not getting indexed on my site, but I don't have, you know, like, that cool page turner, that experience of having the magazine. So, yeah, I can't decide. Perhaps you can tell me what's preferential, the experience for the client, or an SEO boost for something that I don't really need. I feel like when I asked that question, I probably answered it myself.

Andrew Hellmich: I love the experience of looking through. I guess you know, if it was me and I was looking for the SEO, I would do both. I'd still offer the PDF with the page setting experience to my couples, and then have each of the pages a different page on my site as well for SEO.

Rick Liston: Yeah. Well, funnily enough, yeah, I got my girl, Christine, working on that as we speak, so I'll see how it looks when it's done.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. So what happens, for example, so if I was getting married and I came across your guide thinking about getting married in the Yarra Valley, I download the guide. So I had to give you my email address to do that. What will happen next?

Rick Liston: You get an email from me with a link to download the guide. And then you're going to look through that guide. All the options that a wedding photographer who exclusively shoots in that region has to recommend including accommodation, plus all your other vendors, timelines, tips, how to get the best day, you know, all the stuff that's in a guide. And then after you've spent all that time. But it takes, takes a fair, as you would have found out, a fair while, to get through it. You just would have been, you know, spent, what, 20 minutes immersed in my photography. So that next step is usually "Right. Let's get in touch. " So yeah, I got, obviously, a ton of people who will then reach out. "Love the guide. Thank you very much." And for me, actually, the most reassuring thing is, when I hear from venues, the people have booked them, so I just know, yeah, that's tens of thousands of dollars for them. That's come off the back of my guide, and there's no amount of kind of showing up and trying to do something for them that's going to be better than earning them that kind of money.

Andrew Hellmich: Is there a series of automated sequence emails that go out then after, I'm not going to get those now after the guide? Or are you really just hoping that I'm going to fall in love with you and your work and contact you?

Rick Liston: So the automated emails is been there on my list of to do's for quite some time. After that, after that first one, where they're getting the guide, this is what I mean, like I know the journey they're going to be on. So I feel like that's a really, actually great opportunity to, "Yeah, okay, hit them up." You know, give, give, give, and then ask for a take, maybe. So whatever it is, you know, some more tips, some more stuff as it arises. "Have you considered this, you know, is an awesome space if you're looking to have photos, not at a venue." So there's, there's a, there's so many things. There's so many opportunity out there to do, Andrew. But yeah, you're absolutely right. There's an email sequence there that should be going out after, like I said, I'm already, I can't get booked any more than I am, so I'm not really chasing them anymore for booking me as a wedding journo. So it's just really how do I monetize all the people there that aren't booking me.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Got it. Okay, let me take you back to before the guide, because you are already incredibly busy, like you keep saying "How booked out you are. You can't really service any more clients." Is it your relationship, or was it your relationship with the venues that have led you to being so busy? Like, is that the secret?

Rick Liston: Choice, mate, absolutely. And one that I just, I don't know why, it's not everyone's secret. It's, it's, you know, you interview so many awesome people with so many different kind of unique ways to make money. And I love going through it, man. Like, it's not just waiting for wedding chocolate, like it's literally all these crazy, you know, awesome, intuitive, you know, ingenious ways of making money. And mine is just the simplest in the world. Just, just start off with someone who's higher up the food chain, which is wedding venues. Get your leads from there, and then that's pretty much all I need to do on a lead basis.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, well, okay, let me make it a little bit harder on you, Rick. Let's say I'm opening a brand new venue. It's a killer looking venue you've been driving past. It's been getting built. It's part of a winery in the Yarra Valley. You know, couples are going to fall in love with it. I'm the marketing manager or the person who's going to be taking the wedding bookings. What do you do? Do you contact me? Do you email me? Do you turn up?

Rick Liston: If there are not photographers knocking at your door to do what I already did, then, shame on them. Because that is obviously a gold mine like so, when I start, when I first came out, back to Australia. So I used to live in Shanghai, when my wife and I had our daughter. We moved back to Australia. And so out of sheer desperation, where we go from, you know, three of us zero income, I was like, "All right, hadn't been a wedding photographer before, but we moved into the valley. There's a lot of wedding venues. I guess I'm wedding photographer now." Was completely unemployable doing anything else, but I was pretty good with people, and I could take photos. So that's how that came along. So literally, there was two venues that just kind of started out at the same time. So yeah, went straight into them, did everything I could so shoot their space for them, and made a little album of this space. Just stayed in touch, you know, styled shoots there, just try to give them as much content as I could, along with making a list of wedding venues. And I did it in kind of like the Wolf of Wall Street way, where he has these little penny stocks mixed in with the blue chips. Okay, so there's like, your big venues that they would didn't want to buy me back then I was obviously just a new photographer. But when you've got the names that everyone recognizes, and then you check in a few of these new venues, that's suddenly a great, trustworthy blog that you can go in and see it. And that's how I guess I started getting those first leads. So if you were the manager of a venue, I would be looking to probably just be googling who's actually currently doing that. And then inviting them over for a coffee like so there's a really great reciprocal relationship that can go on for years and years from a single meeting like that.

Andrew Hellmich: So you would, you would call me and literally say, "Can I buy your coffee?", and then organize a time and a place to meet up.

Rick Liston: Am I the photographer? Am I the venue?

Andrew Hellmich: You're the photographer on the venue.

Rick Liston: Okay, so if I'm the photographer, I don't I just start delivering mate, so I will get in touch you know. "Is there anything I can help you with? How's your midweek bookings? Is there an development package we could do for that?" Because just about any venue, even if they're killing it, we'll still have a hard time with midweek bookings, with midweek venues, and there's zero weddings, and there's actually so much we can do to help them on that front. Like I said, we've already got these great skills of web design, landing pages, you know, Facebook, Google ads, the photos, the copy, like we can, we're a marketing, you know, dream for them. So to be able to come in and really bring income to them is something we should all be utilizing, just because it pays dividends. Like I said mate, years and years and years. So I would also, like, I've had venues that I've never been in touch with before, but I I liked it like I've blogged about venues that I'd never, I'd never shot at. And they found me, so they get in touch, and then next email is like, "You're on our preferred suppliers list." And it makes sense, like this is someone who's looking after you, so I'm on about 25 different venues preferred supplies list. So that's why it's just the other thing is, like, once you're shooting more and more at these same venues, it becomes easier and easier to get booked there. Like their social media is flooded with your images. So I don't really need to do my social media. Like my social media, of course, like I'll do a post, do an Instagram story. But, I'm just making sure they've got an easy way to share my images. Because that's once again, that's where those couples are starting, is they're looking at the venues that they're going to get married at. They're looking through those Instagram. Once they've found their venue, that's where they're looking. So for my local venues out here, they're all flooded with my images. So you can't really ignore me as an option. You can, not book me, but you're certainly going to consider me.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. Okay, so when you say you're going to make it super easy for them to fill up their social media accounts with your images. Is that by just sharing what you're putting out there, or do you send them a reel of images after every session that's been at their venue?

Rick Liston: Absolutely. So the day after I shoot a wedding, they're going to be receiving a blog where the links to their venue, all the galleries, about 100, 150 images in there. They'll also receive downloadable kind of those 100, 150 images to post to their socials. They'll receive my carousel, my little kind of 10 image carousel that I would have made, and the Instagram highlight story that we've put together is tagged in every one of the vendors on every one of those pages. So it's just that easy. They see it in their stories, and they can just tap to share. I don't know any of that myself, but that's just my workflow afterwards, the day after a wedding. So not only over delivering for the couple, for all of the guests, but also for all of the vendors. Because you know, you know how you feel the day after a wedding versus four weeks from a wedding. Like you're super excited about it, you can still, you know, you remember it like so I feel like getting in for the vendors that day after really goes a long way to getting them to want to share it.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, absolutely. You're saying so many things I want to go back to and just ask you more about. I want to get back to, but I don't do any of that. Just a second. But you also said there that you know you're actually blogging about venues that you hadn't even worked at. So you just going and photographing the outside of the venue and saying you'd like to work there with suggesting it could be a great venue to a couple?

Rick Liston: So that so when I first started, and I hadn't shot any weddings anywhere, then I just had to get the images that were on the site. Obviously, I had to reference themselves just starting to try to rank for this page. So reference those photos to whoever shot them. Get in touch like, like they have their photos on a page that's getting them traffic. So it was pretty remarkable, actually, how quickly that page I went to number one for something like, I don't know if you're familiar with the Yarra Valley, whoever's listening, but it's certainly known for wedding venues. So to be number one, which I believe I am still for Yarra Valley wedding venues, like, I don't need to be there, in there. I think I am for photography, but that's where I'm getting them. I'm getting them in there first. So they're already on my site when they're at that looking at a wedding venue stage. And there's no reason, I think, why you can't do that for your region, like it's obviously someone will be there first. Just make it better. Just spend the time making yours better than theirs.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it, so simple.

Rick Liston: As I have said it's the simplest thing in the world. It's such a simple strategy. Yeah, yeah, it's such a good use of time, man.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. The other big thing you did say that I'm sure the listener didn't miss either. You said, the next day, deliver all this fantastic content to make it easy for you or great for your couples, fantastic for your venues. But you said, "But I don't do any of that." Who the hell is doing all this?

Rick Liston: So a virtual assistant. My biggest value, and I guess my superpower, is photographing weddings. So showing up, getting people to have be comfortable with me, hanging out with them, partying with them, having a killer day, taking some awesome snaps. That's what they you know, pay me 5, $600 an hour to do I do not want to. I want to focus my time doing that. I didn't want to be doing something that I can pay someone very, very capable. A lot less to do, to do for me. So all those tasks, like building a blog, building a slideshow, making a gallery, social media, carousels, highlight stories that can all be outsourced. So a big part of I guess, yeah, shooting a high volume of weddings for me is automation and outsourcing. Because if I'm doing something that somebody else could be doing, you know, for $9.50 an hour, then that's the wage I'm working for. So I'm going to spend my time working for $500 an hour, and that's why I can fit in that many weddings. It doesn't make sense to me when people burn out, for instance, from, you know, shooting 30 weddings a year, like there's 365 days in the year, Andrew. That doesn't make any sense to limit your opportunities if you're high ticket item, which is shooting the weddings, to spend your time doing something that somebody else could be doing for you.

Andrew Hellmich: I love that. I love it. So you're not looking at 50 Saturdays in the year. You're looking at 365 days a year that are potential wedding days.

Rick Liston: Absolutely. Like, it's like, you know, I kept my weddings at eight hours. I'm shooting 15 minutes from home, because it's all local. Like it's, you look at hospitality staff doing these double shifts, you know, six days a week, like they're exhausted, man. Like we get to rock up and go to parties, you know, it's not, it's not this overwhelming thing. And then when I get home, all I have to do is really upload my shots into Lightroom. That's where they're getting backed up. That's where they're running the smart previews. The catalog is in Dropbox, so that by the morning that's already in the hands of my editors. I can still go through, it's like my favorite images, basically. And then the rest of the process kicks off. I have an editor go through, edit the sneak peeks, send it to my other VA. My girl, Christine, she's absolutely awesome. She's going to be making my slideshow, making my blog. Getting the links from my CRM to link out to those vendors, getting answers from a template in my CRM as well. So a pre wedding questionnaire where I'm getting couples to, you know, talk about the theme of their day, basically providing me with the content that I know is going to be a great SEO for my blog page. So I don't have to do that. I don't have to write that like you know. Think about all the headaches you have and putting a blog page together, and I "Oh, okay, we gotta need to put 500 to 1,000 words here if it's gonna rank for that venue, link all the vendors that are in there." Like, you don't need to do any of that stuff. Like you can have original content provided to you if you've got a tight workflow. So then, yeah, Christine will make that blog. She will schedule my post, making the carousel of the 10 images, and she will put the highlight story together. So even, like building a highlight story, you know, how long does that take you to sit there? Going to unfold, load all the images. Try to put it in a nice way, sitting there tagging the vendors. Like, you know, 10 to 20 vendors on each one of those pages, right? You've got to buddy do it every single time. Like, that's not a task you need to be doing. Like the opportunity cost of you doing that instead of going out there and either making your own wedding guide, you know, approaching like you could be doing so many other things that will actually be generating more income than wasting your time, not to mention actually just living your life or being with your family.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. So do you think is there like a tipping point? You think where, you know, say, talking about wedding photographers. Where you need to get to a certain level or point where, "Okay, I need to start outsourcing." Or is it do you feel it's better to start outsourcing right away so you've got the time straight away to start doing the things are going to bring in more work.

Rick Liston: If you don't have the money to outsource, then you haven't started outsourcing yet, and you should. Because that's basically, like, that's how you got to get it. Like literally comes down to, if you're happy to work for what they will work for, for that wage. Then, then do it like. So if, if you can think of nothing you'd rather be doing than working for, you know, seven, $9 an hour, then, okay, keep doing it.

Andrew Hellmich: But surely Rick, you have to be, like everyone listening, yeah, of course, I can afford $7 an hour, and I don't want to work for seven dollars now. But if I'm just going to spend that that day doing nothing, reading a book, sitting on the beach, when I could be doing something, I could be still working in my business. Shouldn't I be working in my business?

Rick Liston: Absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich: Or should I go to the beach?

Rick Liston: Oh, no, that's up to you. And 100% so if you want to be earning more, like you can do whatever you want with that time. If your priority is your business and getting more income, then yes. I mean, how many podcasts of yours can they go through, listen, take ideas from, you know, go out and try those things that's going to be more beneficial for their business than that $7 an hour that they're saving themselves by not doing it. There's this, there's a world of opportunities out there in terms of making more money with your time. And I'm sure everyone's got, like, you know, notes full of stuff that they could be designing albums to give them to venues, or, you know, like I said, building out their own little wedding guide, or, you know, sending out emails, doing all this outreach. But running out of time because, you know, I'm editing, editing my wedding, and making these timelines and doing these posts, that time is there. It's just, you know, just had a the opportunity cost of not doing it, I think, is just crazy.

Andrew Hellmich: That's true. When I say the word workflow to you, what do you think of, because for me, I think post session, post shoot, and that's when the workflow kicks in. Is that what you think too?

Rick Liston: So there's definitely a workflow that starts when the lead comes in. But I do separate, I guess, my workflows into what's automated and what's outsourced. It's all one big, long workflow that kind of leads into yourself, because the post wedding workflow is also my marketing, which generates the leads, which starts off the workflow when a lead comes in.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, then talk to me about the workflow when the lead comes in. And what is that? Is that lead an email? Is it a phone call? What is it?

Rick Liston: Hate talking on the phone, mate. So, always an email.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah.

Rick Liston: So yeah, when a lead comes in, they're going to receive, so I didn't even answer my leads actually. Christine, my girl, she will go in. She will see when a lead comes in, and then, basically, if it's a date that I'm booked for at a place that I like to shoot at, she'll send through the details so I can have a read over, give her a thumbs up, a thumbs down. And then she'll have the corresponding template to send back to these people that's based on the venue.

Andrew Hellmich: So Christine, is she based in Australia or overseas?

Rick Liston: She's in the Philippines, my girl, Christine.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, all right. So Christine from the Philippines, she gets that inquiry. Did you say that if it's at a venue on a week or a day that you have free, not a day that you're booked. So today you have free, then she'll pass the details on to you .

Rick Liston: Correct. Because I don't need to know about it if I'm booked. There's another sequence in the workflow for her to be able to, to do if I am. So I've got templates, basically for all the venues. So I know that someone's going to be receiving an email from me that's going to be incredibly detailed as to just already showing my value in how much I know that venue, the questions that I'm asking about how to get the most out of it, links to the guide, individual, you know, winning venue guides. That's not just my broader Yarra Valley one, but here's, you know, my guide to that venue. And then I can also, I have the option to just record, like, if it's like, yep, that actually looks like a bag of weddings. I really want to make sure I'm a part of that, so I'll just do a personalized video, shoot it in Loom, and that can go into the top. So then it's, that's obviously a really great thing as well, but I kind of reserve that for ones that I definitely really want to shoot.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, let me take you back. So the initial email that you get the inquiry. They may or may not have seen your guide, but they've probably seen your website, or they've been recommended to you by venue?

Rick Liston: Correct.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm guessing that a lot of those emails are, "Hey, Rick, we heard about you from such and such. Love your work. Are you available this day, and what's the cost?"

Rick Liston: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: There'll be a pretty general email.

Rick Liston: Yep.

Andrew Hellmich: So how does your assistant answer that question? And first of all, does she answer it as if it's coming from you or from her? And does she answer their questions, or is it just a template?

 
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Rick Liston: > I'm feeling sorry for you, mate. I'm feeling sorry for you.

Andrew Hellmich: So good..

Rick Liston: Things you can do when you outsource the tasks, mate.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, absolutely. That's the message is coming through loud and clear. Just back to your templates. Do you sell them? Do you create them for other photographers? Can we get in on that action?

Rick Liston: You certainly can, and you'd be crazy not to. To be honest, like they're too good. I can have my entire workflow basically installed into your Studio Ninja CRM. If you're not with them, already got a great 50% off your first year, link on my site to jump on. And then you just, yeah, you're getting that basically years of experience of me building out that workflow ready to go for you for your next wedding, and actually for your current weddings as well. So you can still apply it to anything that's coming up. And there's just so much in there in terms of prepping your couples to buy albums and prints later, follow up questionnaires to make sure that they're actually giving you the feedback that they probably wouldn't give unless you knew how to ask for it in the right way. And that's really actually been a big part of building out my templates as well. Building out my workflow is on the basis of on the back of a lot of that feedback.

Andrew Hellmich: So if I hire you to do that, I would get all your emails, so the questionnaires, the ones that you've pre answered, and I can also customize them to suit myself, the follow up email sequences from the day they book to the actual when I get all that.

Rick Liston: Yeah, well, you get that, all that in your Studio Ninja account. So we put that, install that in so you don't need to do any of that manual, adding an email template, adding the subject, adding a little link. The only thing you'll need to do is just go through customize it so it's got, you know, your voice. I mean, I've got a way of that I like to write, and that might not be you. But it's a ton of work obviously, it's years actually creating those, but it's a ton of work just installing it all. So that's something that neither you or I need to do. But yeah, so try to make it as easy as possible for you to benefit from my years of experience.

Andrew Hellmich: And then, so do you need to come in personally, or is this all just done over Zoom and online?

Rick Liston: So we use LastPass that you can grant us access to your CRM securely, so that we never see your password. And then we're basically going in, installing all the email templates, installing all like building out all the questionnaires, making the workflows, linking it through to those emails, to those questionnaires, setting the timings. And then duplicating and changing for the bride and bride, groom and groom, gender neutral versions.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And then is there some one on one training? Will you help me understand what's actually going on there and how it all works?

Rick Liston: Correct. Yeah, so video sequence options would to take you through basically everything I've done there and why I've done it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, okay, and just say I don't have Studio Ninja. Let's say I'm fully invested in another CRM, Tave, for example.

Rick Liston: Yep.

Andrew Hellmich: Or Tave, can I still buy your templates and install them into Tave?

Rick Liston: You can write to me and let me know, because the next step after Ninja is to create it for the other CRMs. Like, it's a workflow. It's something that you know you're going to be able to benefit from. It's the basis of a lifetime of, you know, accumulating email templates and questionnaires that I've built. So, you know, I'll be able to put that into other CRMs. I haven't got yet, but I just want to make sure that this first stage is perfect for everyone.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so for the listener that wants to take this further, talk to you about it. What's the best way to get in touch with you, Rick?

Rick Liston: So my website for that is weddingworkflows.com, and you'll be able to get in touch with me there. And you can actually go to there and download my follow up email template so you can see how I get that feedback. And it's based around the classic sh*t sandwich, which is the thing that I want them to answer is right there in the middle. That's that, you know, how I improve my service. Or, how can I improve my service. But it's, it's a great little couple of questions beforehand that's going to make them feel comfortable. By telling you how good you are, sh*t in the middle, how good you are, again, there's just no other way to get it, basically.

Andrew Hellmich: The old sh*t sandwich. Love it.

Rick Liston: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: I'm on this website now, so you've got virtual assistants as well. So does that mean we can work with Christine?

Rick Liston: Not my Christine, man, hands off. But, um, so what you can basically benefit from everything that we've developed together. So all my standard operating procedures, which Christine operates on, we can train VAs in that so that you can kind of, because there's just a big barrier. Basically, it takes a long time to get through all the stuff that a wedding photographer needs. So I mean, like, I love this, this one thing, right? So just getting your VA to build an album for all of your couples, so even not ones that have paid for it or have even asked for one. But if in your workflow, you're always kind of referencing the prints in the albums, and they get a surprise album design done by your VA. If all you used your virtual assistant for was that, how many albums would you need to sell for that to pay for that VA entirely, and then just the rest of their time?

Andrew Hellmich: Only one

Rick Liston: Exactly, right? One when the rest of their time is doing anything, you know, all the rest of these tasks. So it's just, you're just costing yourself, I think, you know, probably, you know, six figures by not getting, uh, not outsourcing, or not having a killer workflow.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely. Yeah, you remind me, I interviewed the guys from Nordica a few years ago now. And one of their workflows was, without a VA, was to design a wedding album, even if a couple hasn't purchased one or asked for one, and send it to them on spec, the design, and they only had to sell a couple of year, and that whole idea was well worth it, and you're doing it one better by having a VA design it.

Rick Liston: But yeah, wedding designs are a pain the ass. I hate doing them, like I'm in this game, as I love to party. So the album designs are not my cup of tea. So, yeah, that's something that, that can be done by your VA and will really drastically increase your album sales. So yeah, once again, but we just don't do it like we just wouldn't do that, because the time it takes us and it's pain the ass, but now you can.

Andrew Hellmich: l Iove it. Rick, this has been mate, such a pleasure. I've got a ton from what you had to share. I know the listener has as well, so that the main website for the listener check out if they want to learn more from you is weddingworkflows.com, I'll also have links to your main website, which is rickliston.com, and your social media accounts in the show notes. There's one last thing I want to ask you quickly before you go, your COVID policy that grabbed my attention on your website. Have you had to actually use that yet?

Rick Liston: Do you know what? So I've got it up there, and I've refunded every single person except one who was just trying to be, they're trying to, they're trying to say that they were canceling their wedding. And then I found out from the venues they actually weren't, so, and I was like, not actually..

Andrew Hellmich: They're just being sneaky.

Rick Liston: Okay, yeah, they're just being uh sneaky. But I'll always look at, all right, would I have actually, would a wedding have actually gone ahead? So did this wedding prevent me from booking? Obviously, in that COVID policy, if there's a government lockdown, of course, nothing can go ahead. I'm happy to postpone within 12 months, but the tricky gray area is always going to be, you know, there was some international guests that couldn't come. And so I just have to ask myself, "All right, did I get inquiries for that day, and would that wedding have gone ahead?" If that's the case, then I have lost income, and I would feel entitled to enforce that policy. But to this day, I don't know, man, I got a soft heart, and actually, you know what? It's just I'm fortunate to be in a position where I don't need those booking fees, and actually I get a lot of psychological baggage when people hate me, you know. Like if, if a couple is calling me, chasing me, I will literally pay that booking fee to not have to deal with that. So, like I said, everyone, bar one, has been refunded because, like, the I don't know what they're, what they're going through and blessed to not be in a position where I need that, you know, booking fee to survive.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, that's so cool. Mate, again, massive thanks for coming on, sharing what you have. It's been such a pleasure. Thanks, Rick.

Rick Liston: My absolute pleasure. And just before I go, anyone who wants to use the code PhotoBizX can use that for 10% off on the workflows.

Andrew Hellmich: Legend, all right. Thank you so much. The PhotoBizX and that's at the wedding workflows.com website.

Rick Liston: That's correct. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Thanks, Rick.

Rick Liston: Cheers Andrew.