362: Tony Taafe – Build a profitable headshot photography business by allowing clients to spend more

362: Tony Taafe – Build a profitable headshot photography business by allowing clients to spend more

 

Andrew Hellmich: Today's guest brands himself as Scottdale's premier headshot photographer. He's a mentor in Peter Hurley's Headshot Crew, and his name is the one that always comes up when talking pricing and headshot photography. Incredibly, he went from generating $60,000 in his first year of business to 250,000 in his third. He photographs actors, models, and corporate people, meaning individuals and employees for large and small organizations. Before photography, he was an award winning salesman in the UK for luxury car manufacturers Audi and Bentley, and he says people buy based on how they feel. Customers don't buy products. They buy how a product makes them feel, whether it's younger, more beautiful, part of the in crowd, nostalgic or confident. And based on this principle, he recommends going with a session fee and a per image price to remove limitations clients might feel about how many images they buy, and ultimately, how much they spend with you. I'm talking about Tony Taafe, and I'm rapt to have him with us now. Tony, welcome.

Tony Taafe: Thanks, man. Thanks for the introduction. Very kind of you.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, it's my pleasure. It sounds like it's been a whirlwind sort of journey in headshot photography. Does it feel like that for you?

Tony Taafe: Well, when, that's I don't know it's being quick, you know, from starting in full time, like not very long ago, relatively not very long ago, to where we are today, and doing, you know, this TNT stuff, and, you know, speaking about it, and people asking me questions about it and it's pretty cool. I suppose whirlwind is a good way to describe it.

Andrew Hellmich: Even the fact that you went from 60,000 to 250,000 in a couple of years, or three years, is just incredible. How long have you been in business for now?

Tony Taafe: Let me see, since the middle of 2017.

Andrew Hellmich: So it's just over three years.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, just under, so like two and a half.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh, wow. Okay. What kind of revenue do you see your business doing?

Tony Taafe: What you mean yearly?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Tony Taafe: For this year, you mean?

Andrew Hellmich: Well, even in the future, I mean.

Tony Taafe: Oh, so my business right now is only headshots. I obviously see that changing as things grow and, you know, different directions and different opportunities come up, but in terms of headshots, I don't see any reason why, you know, you couldn't do 400 at some point. And honestly, 18 months ago, maybe two years ago, I would have never thought that was possible. You know, even when I first started out, I was thinking, I don't know about headshots, you know, like, who's going to pay money, you know, decent money for headshots? And then I was wrong. I was, I was wrong. I think I found a good little niche, and I think, I think there's opportunities out there. I do.

Andrew Hellmich: I love that. Well, I'm looking forward to exploring more of that with you. But like you said, "I'm just a headshot photographer." Is it just you in the business? Because it looks to me on your website like you have three studios. I don't know. Is there a team of staff, or is it just you?

Tony Taafe: No, yeah, just me. So the three studios thing is the Scottsdale location, that's my studio, so that's the only studio that, that's mine, because then there's a shared space in LA and then there's no studio in the UK, but I do shoot there when I go home. So there's a location available for me if I want to use it, but it's very much mostly US based.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, well, that's obviously working, isn't it, having that little line underneath your business name on your website, because it looks to me like, straight away, you have three studios around the world.

Tony Taafe: Just go back to that really quick show. That was something that sounded really cool when I started out. And I was like, "This sounds really cool. And I'll, I'll do this." And now I can't, you know, I do for the most part, but it still sounds really cool. So I'm not taking it off.

Andrew Hellmich: It definitely sounds cool, that's for sure. So how does the LA studio space work? Do you actually share it with another photographer? Or, how does it work?

Tony Taafe: Yeah, it's shared with another photographer, yeah, and it's, you know, calendar, you know, you had the Google Calendar and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it's, I spend most of my time in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And in the intro, I said there that you shoot actors and models as well as corporate people. And then you mentioned you found your little niche. I wouldn't expect that actors have a lot of expendable income to spend on headshots. Have you found something different?

Tony Taafe: No, no, you're totally right. 95% of my clients are corporate, very, there's some actors, but I don't market myself to them, for that reason. They have no money, and there's a million headshot photographers out there who are trying to give away work for free to actors, and that's just a crazy thing to compete with. But it's not that there's still a lot of photographers trying to compete with it, and some of them do well, you know, some have really good reputations, and they've worked hard to build the brand over years with actors, but it's a tiny percentage, the money's in corporate, definitely.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So who is your ideal client? I mean, when you say corporate, what do you mean?

Tony Taafe: So anybody who works for somebody else, or anybody who owns their own small business, small to medium sized business, and then obviously, you know, you have the CEOs of those businesses, you know, the C level employees all obviously need headshots, too. So this is why it's such a great market. It's so, can you imagine how many people who class themselves as working, you know, in corporate, in the US?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, but that's why I laughed when you said, anyone that works for someone else, that's most of the population.

Tony Taafe: Exactly, yeah. And even people who work for themselves, you know, but I would class corporate as anybody who works for someone else. But, yeah, the market is huge. It's humongous.

Andrew Hellmich: So it sounds like it doesn't really matter what size business someone either owns or they're working in. If they come to you for headshots, if they're a corporate client, they're potentially going to spend good money.

Tony Taafe:
Yeah. I mean, as long as they have the budget. Obviously, not everybody does, but I'm the most expensive headshot photographer, probably in the state, honestly, in all of Arizona, so, and that's intentional, you know, I've marketed that way, and I built the brand that way, which means that people who book me, they do have cheaper options, but they book me anyway, which means that they've probably got a bigger budget than most people.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay, and your pricing is very clear on your website, isn't it, so people know right up front what they're up for.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, and they have to that's really important. It's really important for a lot of different reasons, and pricing is just one of them. I'm really big on setting the agenda for people, and this come from a sales background thing, where most people book a headshot session or any photography session, really, but when most people book one of these sessions, they've never done it before, or they may have done it once a few years ago. People don't book these sessions often, so I think we have a really big responsibility to let them know what they're getting themselves into, you know. And I don't mean that in negative way at all. I just mean that when you go into a situation that's unknown to you, it's really, really helpful, and you feel really safe and looked after, if there's somebody there saying, "Listen, this is what's about to happen from start to finish." It gives you a sense of security. And from a business point of view, I think it's really important to do that for our clients, because I think a lot of people are not doing it. And I think, as I say, from a business point of view, it gives us an advantage on the people who are not doing it, you know, so that part there where I make it really clear about the pricing on the website, obviously, that's to let people know how much it costs, but mostly it's to make people, I over explain it a little bit, and that's on purpose, so they feel like they know without any doubt what's going to happen if they book a session with me. If that makes sense.

Andrew Hellmich: It does absolutely so when you say that, you over explain, you know, the agenda and how everything's going to work. Is that all happening purely on your website, or does that happen in a follow up sequence of emails? Does it happen via phone calls like.

Tony Taafe: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: How does that work?

Tony Taafe: All of those things. So what I generally do, as I said, and this is all setting the agenda, and it's really, really important for in everything I do. The first example of that is on the website. And then usually what happens is they'll either call me, or they'll send me an email, or they'll fill out the contact form on the website and just say, "Listen, I've seen your website and I'm interested in the session." So then the first thing I do is try and get on a call with them. Most people, almost everybody is up for a call if they're genuinely interested. So I'll do it again in the phone call I have with them, I'll go through everything. I'll tell them, go over the price, and then I will literally tell them the steps of what's going to happen when they walk in the door to when they walk out the door to when they get the images delivered. I'll tell them that on the phone before they've even booked the session. And then once they booked the session, they'll get an email. In the email, you know, I'll give them clothing and suggestions. I'll do go over the hair and makeup, do's and don'ts, studio location, all that kind of stuff. Then at the bottom of the email, I'll set out the agenda again. Then the day before the shoot, they'll get another email, and the email will just be referring to something in the preparation email I sent. So I know if it was me and somebody sent me one of those shoe preparation emails, honestly, I probably wouldn't read it, or I probably see it and say "I'll read that when I've got time", you know, later on in the week, and then you forget about it. So what I do is I send them an email the day before, just saying, "Hey, just a reminder to", I always tell people to call me when they get to the parking lot, and it's for no real reason that I just want that want to come out, rather than having them come into the studio. But I'll send them the email saying, "Hey, just a reminder, give me a call when you get to the parking lot. That's listed in the shoe preparation email." And then what that does it makes them remember, if they haven't read it, "Oh, I need to go read that email." Then they'll go read it. They'll see all the agenda set out again. And then when they get to the studio, they'll get to the studio, and I'll do it again. I'll tell them, "This is what we're about to do. This is what's going to happen. Let's see what outfits you have." So I do it way more than I have to. But I've never had one of those clients who are surprised about what about to happen. And honestly, I just, I think it helps them relax, yeah, for sure, because at no point are they sitting there thinking, I don't know what's happening here. You know, they feel like I'm looking after them. They feel safe in a really awkward situation.

Andrew Hellmich: I love the way that you go and meet them in the car park is that, because it's difficult to find your studio, what's the reason behind that?

Tony Taafe: Again, I just know how nervous people get about getting the headshot taken or getting the photo taken. It's not a comfortable experience. And that's the biggest hurdle I think we come across is getting, if we can take that comfortable experience out to the equation, then that puts us in the very top bracket of photographers. Because, you know, how many times have you spoken somebody and they said, "Yeah, I just hate getting my photo taken."

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah

Tony Taafe: I don't think I've ever had a spoke to clients who hasn't said that in some way, and it's because they feel uncomfortable. It's not because of anything else, they feel uncomfortable, so they look uncomfortable, and everything's just uncomfortable. So if I can go out and meet them, instead of them looking for the, you know, looking for the studio, I'll go out and bring them into the studio, rather than them feeling like they're coming into unfamiliar territory. You know, it's just all to do with the experience, really.

Andrew Hellmich: I like it. I mean, I often make the joke to my clients that I feel like a dentist sometimes, or this is how a dentist feels? It's terrible.

Tony Taafe: Right.

Andrew Hellmich: It shouldn't be like that.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, right.

Andrew Hellmich: So with your email sequences, are you sending these out manually, or are you inputting your clients into a CRM and having that do everything automatically. What are you using for your emails?

Tony Taafe: So I used to do them all my, I actually I do send them all manually, but now it's a PDF that I send out with personalized information. I used to do this copy and paste thing, like go through the whole thing and change bits of information as I went through. But that's, that was just so time consuming and, but so now I'll do, you know, I'll attach the PDF, which is the same for everybody, onto a three line email of "Looking forward to our shoot, you know, on Monday at 3pm", you know, all that kind of stuff. It's just a lot quicker. It's a lot quicker. But I'm not a big fan of the automated email thing, no.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so if I book a shoot today for, say, next Friday, I get an email today when I get off the phone, I guess when we have a chat, when do I get the next email? Monday, Tuesday, next week?

Tony Taafe: So you get the email probably tomorrow. Depends on how busy I am. I'll say to them on the phone, you'll get an email the next couple of days, and then you'll also get an email the day before the late afternoon of the shoot. So when I'm done with my shoots for the day, I'm then looking at my list of, okay, who's in tomorrow, because I need to shoot a quick email. You know.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. I love that. That's very cool. Let me go back to your website for one second. So with your website, I can see it's very clear that you don't want people that come to your website to go anywhere else. There's no links to Facebook, there's no links to Instagram, there's only call to actions. So what's your number one thing you want people to do when they go to your website?

Tony Taafe: I want them to call me. I just want them to contact me.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Whether it's email or contact form or phone.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, I mean, if I could, I would get everybody on the phone, I'd just get everybody calling me. But obviously that's not always practical, because some people, what I found, which I think is bizarre, because it's so different from how I like to do things, just some people just don't like to be on the phone.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

Tony Taafe: Yeah, it's, it's funny. It's I don't understand it, but, you know, it is what it is. So ideally, I'd have everybody call me, but then, you know, I could get a phone call I'm in a shoot, and I don't answer the phone when I'm in a shoot. Or, you know, there could be different reasons why I can't answer the phone. So having the option of email or filling out the contact form is obviously really useful, too. I have chatter on there, which is the little chat widget. I'm not a fan of that. It's fine, as in, what that does itself, if you'd like chat widgets, chat was fine. I'm just not a fan of that in general. But I just like to, you know, if somebody wants to use it, then I want to give them the option to and some people do. A lot of people actually will use that. I just can't always respond straight away, which, you know, is not ideal.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, if I give you my phone number, if I make an inquiry via email or your contact form, and I give you my phone number, 100% of the time, you're going to aim to call me on the phone when you have a chance.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, if you give me your phone number, I'm calling. Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to email. If I've got two options, and one is an email and one's a phone, then I'll call and I'll call it this first possible opportunity, I go.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay. And then when you get it on the phone, are people surprised that you have a UK accent?

Tony Taafe: Yeah, it helps.

Andrew Hellmich: I bet. I bet it does.

Tony Taafe: It definitely doesn't hurt.

Andrew Hellmich: I bet it does. It's another point of difference, isn't it.

Tony Taafe: Right. Exactly.

Andrew Hellmich: That's very cool.

Tony Taafe: Yeah. Definitely helped.

Andrew Hellmich: And when you get this initial inquiry, when do you start asking about who I am, who I work for? You know, what are these photos for? When do you start asking me those kinds of questions? And do you even care?

Tony Taafe: Yeah, I mean, I care because it's an opportunity to relate, to build a relationship. It's really important. The first thing I ask, you know, I don't want to just get into, unless I feel like they're in a rush. I don't, you know, it's just all about building the relationship. And so, yeah, as much information like that as they want to give, that I'm happy to take. Because, you know, one of the really cool things about what we do is we get to build relationships with people that we would never, ever meet if we did anything else. You know, that's really cool to me to be able to do that.

Andrew Hellmich: I like that. And what do most people, most of your clients, what do they say they need these photos for?

Tony Taafe: I mean, it's, it's an even spread, you know, it'll be the company has asked them to go out and get one, or they've realized that their LinkedIn photo is five years old, or, you know, and then I shoot authors and lawyers who want to put on a billboard and stuff like that. If I could spend all of my time shooting in the studio, I would do but occasionally I go out on location to shoot, you know, groups of people on location. And it's not my favorite part of the job.

Andrew Hellmich: But you do it.

Tony Taafe: Right. Yes, exactly. So some people need it, you know, some people need those on location gigs, but it's mostly just, people need, need to update what they have, because most people haven't done it in a long time, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. Okay. And do they tell you on the phone why they're coming to you? You know? Why are they choosing Tony Taafe for this headshot session instead of who they used before, or someone cheaper?

Tony Taafe: No, no. I mean, some people will comment on the web. It's funny you say about the website, because the website's really popular with clients. They really like it. And so some people are mentioned that on the website, you know? And then there's obviously referrals and things like that. I get a lot of referrals, actually, but no, I mean, I don't ask them why, you know? I mean, I don't ask them. So unless they offer the information of them, I don't know. I might ask them in the shoot sometimes, if it just comes up, but generally, no, I wouldn't say they say that a lot.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. And the reason I'm asking is I'm curious to know, are people booking you because they've seen your website and your photos are so much better than other Scottsdale headshot photographers, or is it because they've been referred by a friend? Or, you know, have they seen an ad on Facebook? Are you part of a BNI group and people are recommending like, how are people finding out about you?

Tony Taafe: How are people finding me? So I've got a really good Google ranking with certain keywords on top of the first page on Google in Scottsdale, which obviously helps a lot. I don't advertise. I spend a little bit of money on Google AdWords, like maybe $100 a month, and I have no idea how well it's working. It's one of those, honestly, it's one of those superstition things, where I started off doing it, and it's constantly busy. So I'm like, I don't want to stop doing that, because what if that's not the only thing holding everything together? It's purely superstition. I don't think it's bringing a ton of business in but it's $100 a month, so I'm happy to spend $100 on superstition. But apart from that, I don't advertise. I've obviously got, you know, things online, like people who've written about, you know, like the air stoppers piece. There's other, you know, magazines and things like that that have written about my work, or whatever. And then there's doing things like this. You know, all of this just helps having an online presence.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes, you have these great backlinks pointing back to your website.

Tony Taafe: There's some really cool backlinks, yeah, like Tether Tools. Everybody knows who they are, and have a really good relationship with them. They've written about me a couple of times. And you know, the work's good. I like the work. It's good. I really enjoy how it's not just a headshot. You know, there's personality in the, the works good. And I think that helps as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely, I've just Googled you or Scottsdale headshot photography while we've been chatting. And, yeah, you come up on the map at the top. You've got the first three listings, are pretty much you as well.

Tony Taafe: Really?

Andrew Hellmich: It's pretty amazing.

Tony Taafe: That's good, it's enough.

Andrew Hellmich: The top listing is the 10 best headshot photographers in Scottsdale, Arizona, and there's Michael Luna, and then there's Tony Taafe, there's you, and then you're the next one, and the one after that as well.

Tony Taafe: Is that Yelp, though.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, the first ones Yelp, and then it's you, your actual website.

Tony Taafe: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yelp is obviously everywhere. And the funny thing is, is that I know I do well on Google, but I don't pay a lot of attention to it. I really don't. It's just something that with the backlinks, and obviously I'm intentional on the websites and stuff like that, but I'm not one of these people who is, you know, overly analytical and spends a lot of time in on that, but whatever I'm doing is obviously working out.

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely, so I mean, I guess all the things we've talked about so far, I mean, they're leading me to the big question, and that is, if you're doing what you're doing and making what you're making, if the listener is a great headshot photographer, there's no reason why they can't be generating the same kind of income, by the sound of it.

Tony Taafe: I don't think so, but I was actually having this conversation yesterday with somebody in Vancouver who got really upset. So the conversation was that the headshot market is dead, and I know that not to be true, but I don't want to sound like I think it's really easy to sound like one of these people who say "I'm doing well, so I don't see any reason why you can't do well." I think that's condescending. I don't think it's fair to say that, because everyone has different circumstances. Everyone is in a different market, and so I don't think you can broadly say you should be able to do this when I know nothing of those circumstances. But generally, I mean, obviously people will pay money for this if, if you do a great job for them, and more so than how good the images are, I think the experience is much more important, like all of that stuff we spoke about in the first five minutes, I'm 100% certain that, that's responsible for a lot of my income, those little things that have nothing to do with shooting, making people feel looked after and making them feel good about themselves, it's making them spend more money as well.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure, like it, maybe I should have worded my question differently. Let me ask you first, your average client, what do they spend with you?

Tony Taafe: Between about five and 700.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So if there's a listener who's making, say, $200 per headshot, there's no reason if they do some of the things that you're doing, they could be making more than that from their clients.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, definitely. I'd say that's true in most markets, I'd say that's true. If you live in a tiny town in you know, population of 2000 people, then you're probably gonna struggle. But if you're in a market that is not obviously weak, then yeah. And I also think most photographers don't charge enough for the work, and that's why some don't make enough money, and I totally understand why they don't. I really do I think it can be tough, and having that confidence in your work can be tough to to build, but I do see a lot of photographers and their work is worth much more than what they charge for, but for whatever reason, they can't get over that mental block, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that what you think it is? It's a mental block. They're stuck charging too little because they can't see how someone would pay more.

Tony Taafe: Well, yeah, I think in circumstances where the work has more value than what they're charging for it, then I don't know what the reason could be. I don't know what any other, I can't see any other reason for it than it being a mental block, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. A lot of the photographers that I know, they will charge an hourly rate. They don't know how to charge for headshots. They want to get into headshots, or maybe they're moving into headshots, and don't know how to charge. They think hourly rates the best way to go. But in the intro, I said, you like to charge a session fee, if that's what you call it, and then you sell images per image afterwards. Is that right?

Tony Taafe: Yeah. So the reason I do that is because, when I, you know, I mentioned earlier that I wasn't sure with headshots whether you could make money doing it. And so in my first year I was, I was sitting down, and I thought, well, I really don't know where it's going to go. I don't know how much money you can make doing this, but if I can make 100,000 in my first year, then I believe that, that is a sign that it can multiply from there. And so I worked out what I'd have to do to make 100,000 and bearing in mind, I was not, I don't think my work, the standard of work, was where it needed to be then, either. And so I worked out anyway, that to get to 100,000 I would have to do 250 sessions on a $400 average in my first year. I mean, there's 261 work days of the year. I think to ask somebody to do that in the first year is not realistic, especially when the work isn't at the standard where it needs to be.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. But I say 250 and think that's five shoots a week, is it?

Tony Taafe: Yeah. Exactly, yeah. It is. Yeah. To shoot every single day. Pretty much for the year, except for those months when you have a few extra days. But so yeah, most, I don't know whether I'm shooting that many even now, you know individual shoot, but the average is way higher. And then obviously you factor into that the on location shoots that are obviously worth a lot more money over a shorter period of time. But taking those out to the equation, because you can never bank on them. That's a lot of shoots. So that led me to take a step back. And you know, not only think I'm probably not going to be able to get 250 people in the door, but also, how am I going to scale that over like, five years that am I going to try and shoot 750 people to make 300 grand like, that's, that's not, it's not gonna happen. It's just not, you know, it's not realistic. So then I figured out, you know, then I fell back onto my sales background. So I worked mainly for the audio part of the VW Group. The VW Group, obviously on Volkswagen, but they also own Lamborghini, Audi, Bugatti, these people know how to sell luxury cars, you know, and I worked for them for a few years. And if you're invested with them, if you're willing to work harder, then they'll spend a lot of money on training you. They used to fly me to Germany to, like, go on these special training courses. And what I was taught is, if you want people to spend more money, if you want to sell, then just make it easier for people to buy.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. I like that.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, I mean, and it's not mine. It's, you know, I was taught that, but it, it's absolutely 100% true. If you want to charge more money for something that you're doing, you really need to make it easy for people to spend more money with you and the old package method, or even the hourly rate. I mean, I've never done that, and I don't know a lot of people who do hourly rates, but the old package method that people used to sell, you know, it worked for a lot of people, but for me, that was making it difficult for people to spend more money than what those packages cost.

Andrew Hellmich: So you might have started out with a $400 package, which included some digital files and some prints or whatever it was.

Tony Taafe: Right. Yeah. And you know, for most people, that's not going to be cheaper package, that might be your middle package. And you know your middle package is traditionally your average sale. So again, you know, if you're looking at that $400 average, you've just got to shoot a lot of people. So that's why I decided, "Okay, well, why don't I just make it easier for people to buy more?" I'm also making it easier for people to buy less, but I'm putting the responsibility on me to make sure they don't do that, you know? And I know how I can make them do that is to give them an amazing experience, and also really nice shots as well, but primarily the experience.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, you're selling yourself short on your photography because it's gorgeous. I mean, your photography is amazing. Anyone would be happy walking out of your studio with one of their headshots done by you.

Tony Taafe: I appreciate it. I do. I appreciate that. But what I'm trying to get is not, I don't think that's how I make my money.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. It's the experience.

Tony Taafe: You know, I think it's not enough. I think having beautiful photography is not enough to make real money doing this. I think you've got to think a little bit different. And you know, artists are notoriously not the best business people.

Andrew Hellmich: True

Tony Taafe: Right? And that is no criticism of anybody who you know is an artist. But I think, you know, I think it's generally true, because see anything else other than artists will obsess, and I admire this about them, but they will obsess over their work to a point where they are doing things that are not making themselves money, and spend the much more time on making something perfect when they're not being paid for it, then maybe they should be if they want to run a sustainable business.

Andrew Hellmich: That's true.

Tony Taafe: You know. And as I say, that's not a criticism at all. I really do admire somebody who can do that, but it's not necessarily going to keep your doors open, you know.

Andrew Hellmich: No. And I think that's when people have to make the separation of you know, they get into photography, for the love of it, but if you want to make a living from it, you've got to look at things a little bit differently.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, you've got to be a bit more objectively. And you know, I remember when I first started out shooting headshots, and obviously I wasn't very good, and I used to take criticism so badly of the work, you know, because it was so personal to me. And you get that one shot, and you're like, "Oh my God, this is amazing." And then, you know, turns out it's not. And I had to get over that really quickly, because if I stayed in that mindset, I would never have thought about anything else.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I love your honesty there. At the moment, I can see in your website you have a flat session fee of $300 and included with that, $300 isn't a lot, and when I say isn't a lot, they don't get hair and makeup. They get suggestions for hair and makeup. They get your agenda, basically.

Tony Taafe: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: But then the additional images are $65 and that's including retouching. How many images do most people buy? Three or four?

Tony Taafe: No, it's. How you're looking at like six, between six and nine, probably.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So you're really going for a bunch of different looks?

Tony Taafe: Oh yeah, yeah. Every opportunity I get, I'm giving them as much variety as possible, even if, if I always tell them come in with more outfits than you think you're going to need. And there's two reasons for that. One reason is genuinely, you know, it does help them choose. You know, they could come in with their favorite outfit, and it just doesn't photograph how they thought they were going to photograph, and they don't have any other options. But also, it gives me the opportunity to shoot more variety, give them more options, and again, make it easy for them to spend money with me if they want to. It's a really, really low pressure, zero pressure environment, um, essentially presenting them with options. And the more options I present them with, obviously, without overwhelming them, the more they'll take.

Andrew Hellmich: So how does that work? Let's say I come in for my headshot session, and I've got a few different outfits, and I've got, you know, suits, I whatever. And how many images would you shoot, roughly, for me?

Tony Taafe: How many outfits you bring along?

Andrew Hellmich: Three.

Tony Taafe: I'll probably shoot 200 - 250.

Andrew Hellmich: Is that what you'll actually show me, or is that what you'll shoot?

Tony Taafe: No, no, no. So you'll see about 100 images.

Andrew Hellmich:
Okay, so we've had the session. I've had the best time with you. I've had a lot of laughs, which I can imagine I would. I go away and have a coffee. You could do a bit of an edit or a cull?

Tony Taafe: Yeah

Andrew Hellmich: What happens? Do I come back then and sit down at your computer? And am I looking at Lightroom or some other kind of software?

Tony Taafe: So I'm calling a couple of different times. I'm calling in between alpha changes. You know, obviously, when you've gone get changed, I'm going through that. I'll figure just shot and just delete an images that I don't want you to see, or images that are too similar, like almost identical to each other, I'll just kick it out.

Andrew Hellmich: Are you shooting tethered?

Tony Taafe: I'm shooting tethered. Yeah, yeah. That is a lifesaver for me. I really do need to shoot tethered now.

 
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Andrew Hellmich: Tony, this has been amazing, mate. This has been so good. So eye opening, it certainly went in different directions to what I expected.

Tony Taafe: Really?

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I didn't know. I mean, I guess that your car sales would have had some influence on your photography sales, but I didn't realize how much. And it sounds like the training you had there has really set you up for life with your photography business, with any sales.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just really important for us, you know, like, I think the biggest issue for photographers is that they we don't make enough money as a whole, as a group. We undercharge because there's a lot of competition, because of everybody's markets different but, you know, we invest a lot of time and a lot of money into what we do, and not enough people are being rewarded for it. And for me, I just want to, I want people to start on and as much money as they should be, because most people, I don't think it. It's not sustainable for most people. I think that's one of the reasons why we see so many new photographers coming on, on the scene all the time, is because there's always room for them, because there's always somebody selling their equipment because they haven't been able to make it work. And I'm not saying this is going to cure it for everyone. It's not. But when this first started working for me, I told it to a few of my photographer friends, and they were really reluctant.

Andrew Hellmich: Really?

Tony Taafe: To take it on board. Yeah, really reluctant, because it's change, and nobody likes change, you know, everybody's been selling packages since, you know, whenever, since forever. And so they didn't like changing. And a couple of them, you know, started using it, they started making so much more money. Then all of a sudden there was, you know, 10, maybe even 15 people who had told about it, and they were like, "Holy crap, this really works. I'm making double the session average." And also, a lot of people had a renewed enthusiasm, because they weren't just shooting for the package anymore. They weren't just going for those three images, because they were only buying three images. All of us, it opened up so many new possibilities for them where they knew they did a better job. They were going to make more money. There was a, you know, even for Peter, who's been shooting for, I don't know how long, 10 years, even he's like, "I love it again. It's for me now I know, like, there's a challenge in front of me of, like, get as many amazing images as possible, and the chances are I'm going to make more money." And so when that group of people were making more money, we were like, you know. "We've got to tell people about this, because this is really good information. People are just making more money from it." So then we recorded the tutorial, and that's the gist of it, you know, it's helped me, but I was selfish when I did I just did it for me, and then when I realized people will benefit from this information, then we were like, "Let's spend some real time that I spent, like, four months writing this tutorial out of, you know, let's make sure that the right information is in there. Let's make sure it's in the right order. Let's make sure it's presented in a way that is not..", because, you know, for me, it's easy. It's in my head, like I developed it. So for me, it just comes naturally. But if I'm trying to explain it to somebody, and I'm then I'm trying to explain to a lot of people, and they all have different ways of processing information, then you know, you got to put a lot of thought into that. So then, yeah, we released this tutorial, and a lot of a lot of people, there's not one single person who has just this tutorial who has come to me and said, "Yeah, this is just not working for me." And so that I know of, there's not one single person who is not making more money from it. A lot of people have actually come back and said, "You know what, my fair shoot, I made more money than what I've made before, and it's paid for itself." I'm really, what's the word? I don't know. I'm really humbled by how many people are it's helping. It's amazing. It's fascinating for me to see. Yeah, it works.

Andrew Hellmich: That's so good. So for you, the listener, Tony's talking about the TNT method, which is the method that he's been talking about, the one that he's developed, the one that's available in the training course. If you go to tonytaafe.com now it's spelled T-O-N-Y-T-A-A-F-E.com, and I'll have links in the show notes. So tonytaafe.com on the main menu on the far right, you'll see the TNT method. Go there. Check it out. It's $249 and I mean, it sounds like you're going to get your money back on your first shoot once you put this stuff into practice. Tony, you have been amazing, mate. It's been so good to talk to you. I'm so glad your name got brought up inside my members group. Michael Schacht was talking about you.

Tony Taafe: Yeah, Mike, yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. Lots of people bringing up your name and making me aware of you. I'm so glad I had a chance to get you on the show, mate. So thank you so much.

Tony Taafe: My pleasure, man. Thanks a lot for having me. I really appreciate it, and I look forward to speaking to you again sometime.