357: Zack Arias – Shooting, surviving and working through the pandemic

357: Zack Arias – Shooting, surviving and working through the pandemic

Andrew Hellmich: Today's guests shouldn't need an introduction. He's been prevalent on the photography scene for over a decade. Have a look at his social media stats and they indicate success: 75,000 subscribers on YouTube, a 100,000 followers on Instagram and 50,000 on Facebook. But those numbers, they don't tell the whole story. He described himself as an Atlanta-based editorial and commercial photographer, but to me, he's so much more. He's the guy who's not only seeing the ups and downs of success, he shares the brutal reality of what goes through the head of a working photographer. One minute we feel we have everything sorted and life is great. The next we hate our work. We wonder why people are hiring us and why we even started this whole business thing. He understands the roller coaster of a creative life tied in with business and trying to carve out a living. But the most endearing thing he possesses...that unique quality we should all strive for - empathy. He hear it and see it in his videos. He understands photographers. He openly shares about his depression and anxiety and from the outside looking in, it's difficult to understand how someone with so much success can feel down. It feels like he's been gone for a little while, but he's back. I'm talking about Zack Arias and I'm rapt to have him with us now. Zack, welcome.

Zack Arias: Aww, thank you Andrew, you're going to make me cry.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, how does it feel listening to an intro like that?

Zack Arias: I can tell you that like I deal with impostor syndrome like hardcore. So it's just any moment until somebody finds out that I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm just whacking in the weeds out here, just trying to make a living like everybody else. So yeah, like I appreciate you know where I am, but I have so far to go still.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you understand when someone like me says, it doesn't make sense? Like when I read those stats, the followers, the likes, the comments you get, everything you do gets followed by hundreds of thousands of people. How can you feel like an impostor?

Zack Arias: I don't know. I was doing an event once with a very famous photographer and we were speaking on a, you know, a stage together and he was backstage just pacing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And I'm like, "Are you all right?" He's like, "Yeah, I'm just, I'm nervous." And this guy, his name is Gregory Heisler. Like, I mean Greg Heisler has done it all shot at all, seen it all. You know, he's photographed pretty much every president of his lifetime, like magazine covers around the world and he's pacing backstage cause he's nervous. And that kind of showed me like, wow, this never ends this nervousness. Yeah. I don't take stock in those numbers that you read out. Like I appreciate the community that I'm in. I don't look at people as followers, but I look at them as colleagues, as peers, you know, and I'm really glad that if I can help people then that makes me happy.

Zack Arias: You know, I've restarted my YouTube channel recently after being on hiatus for three or four years from doing any content on that platform. And you know, people have really responded in kind and it's been really nice to read everyone's comments. But you know what I tell people is that I go back to myself as a younger photographer 20 years ago when I was struggling. And back then back then what you did as a photographer, is you projected this image of you that was seven feet tall and that you were working on all these great projects and everything was awesome and you had to always keep a front of amazing things happening in your life, right? And no one talked about their struggles. No one talked about how hard it was to get jobs or how hard it was when you couldn't pay your bills or you know, how hard it was to get started or dealing with depression or anxiety or any of that.

Zack Arias: No one would publicly talk about that whatsoever. Right? So when I started to talk to people in my own industry, I started with, you know, I'm going to say the things that 20 years ago me needed to hear. And in fact, some things I say today is what I still need to hear myself. You know? So yeah, I want people to know they're not alone and I don't want people to look at me and like, Oh, you have all these numbers, look at all your subscribers and your followers and your this and your that, and you're the others. And again, I'm appreciative of it, but I can point you to plenty of people who have far larger numbers than me. Right? Like I liken myself to being at base camp at Everest. Like going to base camp is a difficult feat in itself. It's 14,000 feet. That would kill me just to go to base camp at Everest.

Zack Arias: Right. But you haven't even really begun the journey. You know, you've got to get acclimated at base camp. So I feel like in my life, I'm at base camp, you know, so please don't look at my numbers. Please don't be like, wow, you have so many subscribers. One of my kids was watching this stupid video today on YouTube of some girl who went to Target and bought all the slime and she had like 10 million views on that video and she's one of those like screaming teenagers. Like she's just looking at the camera screaming at it and then her next video, you know what her next f***ing video. Oh, can I say...

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, too late now.

Zack Arias: You know what her next f***ing video was? Her new Tesla wrapped with her face all over it. And I'm just like, I give up, you know what? I'm going to Target, I'm going to buy slime and I will make a video out of it. Screw all of this. This is stupid.

Andrew Hellmich: Well, I'm not going to focus on the numbers today. I mean I use it really to illustrate a point because you know, for someone that has 10 followers or a hundred followers, it looks unattainable. But it's interesting to hear you feel like you are at base camp. Like that sounds so unrealistic. But I want to talk a little bit about business because you said, you know, you're just a guy, a photographer looking to carve out a living. And you also said that, you know, you look at your photography and you think, you know, I've heard you say this on YouTube videos is, "Wow, is this any good?" When you get hired for a job, do you feel confident when you go to those jobs? Or are you second guessing yourself at those jobs?

Zack Arias: There's a certain amount of, once you've put in enough time behind the camera, I mean, I've had awful, awful, horrible days, but I had to show up and go to work. And it might even be a job I'm not necessarily looking forward to, but this is a client. They have hired me. I have bills to pay, I have children to feed, I have, you know, bills and all of that. So I put on a smile and I go to work. And so there's a certain level of photography that I can deliver on my worst day and I rely on that. What I tell people when they're getting started is the reason it's important to learn the technical parts of photography, not just the kind of feeling and emotions and aesthetics of photography, but the actual technical of it is because when you're not feeling the emotion, when the aesthetic is completely gone and you just want to crawl under a rock and not come out anymore, you have to rely on a base of, I can set up this soft box, I can stand this, you know, this subject here, and I could make good passable portraits of them today, or I can do my job today, right?

Zack Arias: So when I get hired, I have confidence that whatever happens, I'll make something happen and I have enough experience to lean on and seriously, I've had photo shoots that have lasted 60 seconds. You know when it all came down to it, I showed up early, I was there, I got all my gear together, everything was charged, all my stuff was ready, and I was waiting and waiting and waiting, and then the, you know, subject shows up. I've got 60 seconds to make a portrait, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, and thank you very much and off you go. And of course I second guess everything afterwards. Right? I love my photography for about 24 to 48 hours and after that point I start to pick it apart until there's nothing left in a week.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you come back then say a week or two or a month later and think, "Hey, I was too hard on myself?"

Zack Arias: No, I usually just move on. I just move on to the next thing. I don't go back and look at my work a lot. About once a year when I'm trying to update a website or update my print portfolio, I start to dig through old shoots. I think the thing that's hard with me is that I shoot, I'm excited about it and I'd really like to share it at that moment. But in the editorial and commercial world, you're usually having to wait for the client to publish the piece before you get to share it anywhere. So you can't Instagram it. You can't put it on your blog, you can't put it until it's all vetted and done and out there in the public. And that sometimes could be months and I've already done three more projects since then, you know, and I'm constantly in a state until recently of whatever I shot three months ago that's now been released.

Zack Arias: I have a backlog of other things and something next that I'm working on. I know that I'm too hard on myself, but I think that's what pushes me and maybe it's a negative part of my life, but it also makes me do better. And I can tell you a specific story that's happening right now. I want to see if it leads up to it. I'm going to hold this story for now. I want to see where your questions go, but by the end of it, if you don't touch on it, then I'll hit it. But I have a feeling you're going to touch on it.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, well you'll have to, you have to make sure I get it. You know, I brought up the fact that you talked about carving out a living. Can you share with us how you are making a living today? I mean, is it purely photography? I know you have DedPxl, you do some teaching or you were. How are you making a living these days?

Zack Arias: Up until Covid, right? Up until this Corona virus, I would say it was 90% photography, like working for client. 80, 90%. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it's working on projects for photography clients. I do sell some videos. I recently led a photography group with the Santa Fe workshops down in Havana, Cuba. That was in January. I recently did a promotional film for Fuji. But again, Fuji is a client, right? Like if it was Coca-Cola, if it was Ford Motor Company, if it was Land Rover and they said, "Hey, go make a promotional video." And I like, "Oh, I love your product then I'll do it." But no, it's been primarily that. And what's interesting is that my photography work has me traveling a lot. I still have two kids in the house and I would like to stay home more. And I was thinking at the end of last year, beginning of this year that maybe I'll do some more workshops, maybe I'll kind of back off of client work for a while, stay around Atlanta, stick to home for a bit, not travel so much and then all of this hit. And I can't even like book a workshop now because nobody's getting on an airplane, you know, like, so I can't even rely on that.

Andrew Hellmich: What about an online workshop?

Zack Arias: I've been looking at the online workshop space, but I also know that my peers and my colleagues are all struggling right now. Like we're all hurting. So I struggle with this monetizing my stream kind of philosophy. How do I monetize this right now? It's something I really actually literally need to do is I need to monetize my stream at the moment because I have bills just like everybody else that has to pay. And every single one of my jobs and projects has gone up in a puff of smoke and the really, really, really, really scary thing for me, and I had not even thought about this until someone left a comment on my YouTube channel recently where they were saying, you know, I have all of these promos printed in January, ready to mail out. I had a whole new campaign ready to go and now I'm sitting here wondering if the people on my mailing list will even have a job when this is over. I was sitting there worried about my own jobs. Right. Not even thinking about the clients that I work with may not be sitting at that desk when this is all done.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. It's the same for the listener that you're talking to right now.

Zack Arias: Right. And that hit me so hard. Like I can't even explain like, "Oh shit." Like the people I rely on to hire me may not have a job when this is done and I've been staying in touch with my clients. Just on a personal level and I highly suggest this, if I can give a tip to photographers out there right now, get in touch with your clients, get in touch with the people who hire you on a personal level of just checking in, "How are you?" "Are you doing okay?" You know, like "How's things with you?" You know, of course there's this little business part of you in the background, like you gotta stay in front of people. But also, I mean I love my clients, I appreciate them and I really hope they're doing okay in all of this. So I've been making the rounds on a pretty regular basis through my client list of just checking in on folks like "You doing okay? Is everything all right?"

Andrew Hellmich: So for you Zack, is that a phone call? Is it a text message? Is it a...

Zack Arias: Typically a text message?

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Zack Arias: I'm a text person. I hate phone calls and emails and if you want to get in touch with me, text me. Otherwise you might as well be sending smoke signals from a mountain top. So, yeah, you know, you can send off some texts just like you doing okay. "Have you seen Tiger King?" Send a funny meme. You know, and the selfish part of it is you're staying in front of people during this time so that when it all ends, you're not a stranger anymore. That's the thing that it's kind of a little, "Hey, I'm still here," but honestly I still want to check in on you and make sure you're okay.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. I'm going to come back around to the business side of stuff and I'm going to delve back into your head for a minute. You talked about being at base camp and if you're at base camp right now at the level you're at and with all the experience you have under your belt, what is your Everest?

Zack Arias: Dan Winters. Dan f***ing Winters, man. I mean, I think Dan Winters is probably my favorite working photographer right now. He's probably on the Hillary Step or the Hillary Arch. What do they call that? What's that little weird narrow path going up? The top, the Hillary something.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh yes, I do. I know what you mean.

Zack Arias: Right. He's side by side with Joe McNally.

Andrew Hellmich: But hang on, this is worrying because this is what you've told us in your videos that we shouldn't be doing.

Zack Arias: No, I'm just telling you like I'm just saying, people I look up to who I feel like are higher up the mountain than I am.

Andrew Hellmich: Right.

Zack Arias: Right? And it's not me comparing myself to them. I mean there are times when I see a Dan Winters picture come across my Instagram feed. I want to hang my camera's up and be like, "I am done. I will never achieve that." I will never get to that level of work, of client, of photography, of whatever. Right. I just love his work so much. So that's not me comparing myself to him and feeling bad for myself. That's just saying, "Wow! Look at what can be done. Look at the heights that can be achieved." If there's anyone higher up on the mountain than where I am, I think it's like, it's a Dan Winters kind of person. It's a, it's a Joe McNally kind of person.

Zack Arias: I mean, look at what Annie Leibovitz has done with her career and her life, you know, ups and downs, struggles, all sorts of things. And she's had to do it under a very public eye. Right? Like when she was facing problems, it wasn't just within the industry. We were talking about Annie Leibovitz's problems that was like, you know, headline news outside of our photography industry. I mean, she's a household name, right? Love her, hate her, indifferent to her, however you want to feel. Look at her career, you know, it's been massive and great and fantastic. So those are people up the mountain, you know? And that's fine. That's good. And I'm happy because that shows that it can be done.

Andrew Hellmich: Sure. Maybe my question was a little bit vague. So what about if I was to rephrase and ask you how do you measure success? Like when do you know that, "Okay, this is enough. I'm happy."

Zack Arias: I guess if my bills are paid, my kids are fed, the lights are on, that's successful. And I've done it with a camera. That's a huge success. I don't know if there will ever be enough. And that kind of drives me, but it also depresses me too, right? Like I can have great success. I swear to God, this is honest to God truth here. I have been sitting in an airport before flying home from a job and I'm on a layover. This happened to me in Amsterdam, in Schiphol Airport. I'm in Amsterdam, I'm on a layover flying home and I was going through my feed and I can't remember what photographer it was, but they were somewhere amazing in the world doing a job. And I was sitting there like an asshole going, "Why can't I have jobs like that?"

Andrew Hellmich: And you're in Amsterdam.

Zack Arias: I'm in f***ing Amsterdam coming home from this like great, amazing trip I just did, that 10 years ago me would have never f***ing dreamed I could have done ever. And I'm sitting here looking at someone else's Instagram picture going, "Why don't I get jobs like that?" And I was like, "Zack, you bastard." Like, "You spoiled shit. It's never good enough, is it?" "No, it's not good enough." Like I'm a 10 year old. I appreciate what I've been able to do. I'm so thankful for what I've been able to do, where I've been able to go and I can't let myself fall into that trap, but it doesn't mean I don't have goals. And it doesn't mean that like there's not higher mountain tops that I'd like to reach. I feel like I've been on a creative plateau for about three years and I really want to like push to the next spot knowing there's another plateau waiting for me.

Zack Arias: So it's a weird, it's like the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other and it pushes me. And if I let it, it depresses me. But I really fight the depression and I tried to just let it push me. I let it, you know, be like, okay, you got to get up, you got to do better. You got to work harder at this. Whatever it is you need to do, you need to do. And I'm just going to keep doing that until I fall over dead. Honestly. And that's fine. That's totally fine.

Andrew Hellmich: But that's frightening to me, and I'm guessing to the listener too, because it's almost sending the message that we never know when we've actually reached success. I mean for you, if I take what you said at the beginning, you're successful right now. The kids are being fed, the lights are on, they're going to school when school is allowed. You're successful right now.

Zack Arias: I'm successful...Okay. How about this? I'm successful for the next 30 to 60 days.

Andrew Hellmich: Right?

Zack Arias: Right. Like I have not had such success that I've got a retirement in the bank. I haven't had such high success that my kids' college is taken care of unless I die and they get my life insurance policy. Right. I am successful on a 30 to 90 day basis constantly and it's been a rat race and it really does tire me out. So yes, my lights are on, I have power, there's a roof over my head. I got a freezer stocked full of food. I am thankful for that. But when everything shut down and we don't know when it's going to open back up, right. That 30 to 60 day clock started ticking. So talk to me, you know, at 30 days from now and let me know, you know, how successful I am of keeping lights on and keeping the roof over our head because it's a constant, constant chase.

Zack Arias: You know, I got my hustle hat on right now. Let me tell you what I'm working on right now. Let me tell you how successful I am. So I had to, uh, I moved last year and kind of went to the burbs because I was becoming house poor. I bought this house in Atlanta, no little neighborhood and outside of downtown Atlanta at the very bottom of the housing market. And it was that perfect point where they were still given loans to any fool that would walk in a door, but the housing market was crashing. So I got this house for a steal at the time and it was able to get a loan for it. So I get this house and it's all great and well, but six or seven years later, the housing market comes back, which means the property taxes go up and the property taxes were killing me.

Zack Arias: It was also an older house that had been revamped back in the 90s but it was starting to show some age and you know, HVAC system needed to be replaced. The whole back deck and the backstairs were rusting out and needed to be redone. And I had gone through a divorce, so I had this house on my own and I was struggling to keep it. And it just got to the point where it's like, I can't keep this anymore. I can't afford it. I have to sell it. And I moved to the burbs. So I moved to the burbs last year and I lived in this big suburban neighborhood and Covid hits, all my jobs disappear, every single one of them. And I've been on quarantine now going on four weeks and I'm getting nervous. So I get on the neighborhood Facebook group and I announced family portraits.

Zack Arias: Dude, I have not shot family portraits in I don't know, 12 years, 14 years something. It's been a while since I've shot family portraits. So I have devised this idea of I'm going to do family portraits, of course with a telephoto lens, social distancing. All of that. And I am selling family portraits this weekend for 100 bucks.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow.

Zack Arias: Cause you know everybody's getting hit, right?

Andrew Hellmich: Yup.

Zack Arias: So I got some families to sign up. It was like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 15 minute slots. Get in, get out a hundred bucks, you'll get a gallery, turn and burn like everything. I'm against everything. That's bad business. And let me tell you something, someone just canceled on me because they hired some person who's doing $20 porch portrait. You heard about this thing?

Andrew Hellmich: I have heard about porch portraits but not for $20.

Zack Arias: Porch portraits. So I lost a hundred dollar family portrait to somebody rolling up with their 80-200 sitting at the curb shooting a porch portrait for 20 bucks? I'm like, it is the end of the world. This is Thunderdome. This is, we are in Hunger Games. All right. Report to your district photographers.

Andrew Hellmich: That's frightening.

Zack Arias: I was supposed to be on the Gulf shores, Alabama, shooting a job for HDTV three weeks ago and here I am. I'm doing a hundred dollar family portraits, man. And you know what, let me say something, I'm super grateful for it and I'm thankful because I could put my hustle hat on and I could go hustle up some money and okay, so I'm going to get to the thing where I said I might get to the thing.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah.

Zack Arias: Can I go ahead and do it?

Andrew Hellmich: Absolutely.

Zack Arias: It's eight thirty for me at night and I'm drinking gin and tonics. So I hope this podcast goes well for you. I'm really sorry. I've had two families cancel. One, something came up, quote unquote, nothing's come up. There's nothing going on. Nothing's come up. You don't have to be anywhere. The other one cancel on me cause they've got a $20 porch portraits. Right. So going back to that, are you ever good enough? Right? Is your work ever good enough and is it a negative thing? Is it, is it like you can't ever get past it? I really want to make really nice family portraits for these folks. I mean I want to knock it out of the park. I'm a photographer, it's what I do. But now that someone is canceled on me for a 20 buck porch portrait, Oh, I'm going to shoot the best damn family portraits I can possibly make and I now have this idea. I'm going to shoot two setups in 15 minutes and I know exactly what I'm going to do for the second setup and it's going to be black and white and it's going to be super simple.

Zack Arias: I'm going to focus in on the kids. I know exactly what I'm going to do and I'm going to post a couple of them on the Facebook group as a thank you, like, Hey everyone, thanks for coming out to my family portraits. Really enjoyed meeting you guys. These are some of my favorites, just so those people who canceled on me will be like, damn, we shouldn't have canceled on Zack. Look at those pictures. Holy shit. Yeah, look at your $20 porch portrait. Look, that's cute. That's awesome. I hope the sun was at the right place. I hope your lighting was okay. Whatever. You're standing on your porch, that's great. I know it's a hashtag on Instagram. I know it's things happening, but dammit, look at what I made for 100 bucks and I kicked that ass and so it's competitive, right?

Andrew Hellmich: This is guerrilla marketing.

Zack Arias: Right, and they are going to regret canceling on me. Damn it.

Andrew Hellmich: Hang on, aren't you the guy that builds up the photographer that's charging too little, trying to bring them up to your level?

Zack Arias: $20 porch portraits. I'm like, I'll do it for 15 I don't give a shit. That's it. Twenty? Dude, all you have to do is roll up, roll your window down, stick your 200 out the window, click, click, click like text them out. All right, I'm out in front of your house. Venmo me my 20 bucks. Here's your...Oh, god.

Andrew Hellmich: It's interesting to hear your take actually even on the fact that you're considering or happy to go and do porch portraits because I know there's a lot of angst amongst photographers, some that think, "Hey, I've got to do what I've got to do to survive. I'm going to do this even though I have to keep my social distancing. I can still create these images." And another photographer saying, "Hey, pull your head in. Life is more important than you." Are you seeing those arguments out there online?

Zack Arias: Oh absolutely. I saw a photographer on Facebook go off on these porch portrait photographer.

Andrew Hellmich: I think I saw the same one.

Zack Arias: Like why are you doing this? This is so stupid, blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah blah. You know, I think the heftiest, I think they've measured it. The heftiest sneeze can travel like 27 feet, right? So I'm keeping a minimum of 30 feet away from the folks. I have identified a place in our neighborhood. We have like a clubhouse and it has a parking area and then there's this little nice walkway that's like nicely landscaped and it's springtime right now and the flowers are blooming and everything's green. And if I jump in there with the longest lens I've got for my Fuji system, which will give me like a, I think like a 250 millimeter equivalent, I'm going to be able to keep a 25 to 30 foot distance from people at all times.

Zack Arias: I'm telling people to bring their own chairs, stools, blankets, if I need anything to kind of prop them with or sit on, they are bringing that from their house. I'm not providing it so that there's zero cross contamination. They are all digitally paying me. You know? And the way the parking lot is set up is there's parking on each side of this walkway so they can come park in on the left side and then go out the other while someone waits, you know, far away from them in these little 15 minute increments. So I'm able to keep everyone 25 to 30 feet minimum apart from each other. So I'm very well aware. I'm not taking it lightly, but I got to hustle and I got to make some bills, you know?

Andrew Hellmich: Yup. That's what it comes down to.

Zack Arias: Yeah. So that's successful photographer right there for you. You take all of those social media numbers and you just know man, that this weekend I'm shooting family portraits in a parking lot cause I gotta feed my kids.

Andrew Hellmich: I like it.

Zack Arias: So, there's my success and I've already lost a job to a $20 porch portrait photographer. You tell me if I'm successful.

Andrew Hellmich: I'm going to come back to key in a question regarding kids in a little bit, but I know that you've really ramped up YouTube for yourself and I know you're even exploring different things like cooking of all things and making videos on cooking and that obviously it's mainly photographers seeing that. Why YouTube and is it something that other photographers should consider?

Zack Arias: You know, it used to be the day, you know, the thing you had to have was a blog back in the day and back in the day, I mean like three years ago, right? Like blogging was important, but I looked at my life and how I consume the internet and I consume the internet via apps now. It's rare that I log on to Chrome or Safari and type in someone's blog address or hit my bookmarks and read a blog. I look at their Facebook posts, I watched their YouTube videos when I'm interested in a new piece of equipment. And it could be something as simple as like a camera bag. I don't Google it anymore. I go to YouTube, I type in the kind of camera bag I'm interested in and I watch videos on it, right? I mean, YouTube is becoming one of the largest search engines on the internet and there's just massive amounts of content out there.

Zack Arias: So I feel that like I need to get back into videos. The problem is, as you know, is video is 10 times more work than taking pictures. You have to shoot it and the audio has to be right and you don't have to edit it. And then there's frame rates and resolution and this and that and the other and all the things. So what I've been trying to do with my new YouTube videos is that keeping it as simple as possible, I shoot almost all of it on my phone. I have a little lav mic that I plug it into my phone. So my audio is better. I'm currently talking to you right now from a new place at my house where I've set up to shoot videos because I wasn't happy with the quality that I was getting where I was. So it's an evolving organic process for me.

Zack Arias: But yeah, I think video content is very important. Like do I suggest photographers to do it, I don't know. It depends on what you're trying to say. Right. For me, I'm trying to talk to photographers, right? I'm not trying to talk to clients with my YouTube channel. I'm not trying to get clients to come to my YouTube channel and watch it. If I were really honest, I probably don't want clients to watch my YouTube channel cause I'm going to talk about the behind the scenes, you know, like what it's like to deal with clients or things like that. That like, Hey clients, you don't need to watch this right now. The problem also I have is that a lot of the jobs I do, I can't do a behind the scenes stuff on because it has to go through legal. It has to get approved by talent.

Zack Arias: You know there's hoops to jump through to the commercial work that I do, so I have to make up content by myself

Zack Arias: I can tell you a quick story if you have time.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, go for it.

Zack Arias: Quick story. When I started shooting bands in Atlanta, I was a music photographer, I was shooting promos for bands and I was working, working, working, working. I had this really horrible pay structure set up. It was wrong and bad, but it was basically I would do a quarter day, a half day or a full day rate for bands, 250 for a quarter day, 500 bucks for a half day. And I think it was like 850 bucks for a full day. And of course everyone booked my quarter day package. It was like three hours, but I'd knock it out of the park for them, like absolutely knock it out of the park. I put everything I could into three hour shoot. They often went 4 hours. I never charged more, whatever, 250 bucks. So this guy named Michael Wiemann comes along. He had been the director for the Southeast office for BMI, which is just like, ASCAP, similar to ASCAP. They handle licensing and usage for singer songwriters, artists, performers. And Michael Wiemann comes along and says, man, I've been watching your work. I've been seeing you hustle. I know your rates. I'm leaving BMI. I'm going to start representing some producers in town, but I'm interested in representing you as well. Would you be interested in getting some help? And I was like, Oh my God, yes. Right. So we had a lunch and Wiemann was going to get 20% of anything he'd booked for me. So the first thing he did is he bumped all those quarter, half full day prices up 100 bucks. So then I was like 350, 600, and 950, right? Well. What's interesting is that my quarter day bookings didn't skip a beat. We went from 250 bucks to 350 bucks. I was worried, nervous, but I had the same amount of work. Like it didn't skip a beat. Even after his 20% cut, I was still making just a little bit more money than I normally was. Like, Oh, this is great. So we had been working together for like, I don't know, eight months or some amount of time somewhere around the year ish Mark, he calls me up one day, says, I need you to take a look at the calendar.

Zack Arias: I've got a couple of things I need to book. I've got a half day for this person. I got a half day for that person. Like, okay, okay, okay. And I'm looking at my calendar. I'm like, Oh my God, Michael, hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Like, and I'm looking at my calendar sitting there and I got him on the phone and I'm like, dude, I haven't booked a quarter day shoot in over a month. They've all been half days and up like this is amazing. And he was like, yeah, you know why? I'm like, why? He's like, cause I stopped offering them and I about had a heart attack. He's like, you're not a quarter day shooter anymore, Zack. You're half day and up. It's eight 50 to book you. And he'd gotten me to 850 a half day and 1500 a full day. So he just stopped offering it. I'm sorry it's not on the table. And I'm about to have a damn heart attack and had it not been for Michael Wiemann, I'd still be shooting $250 bands. Right. He saw value where I didn't and he, he did things I would've never done. I wouldn't have done that shit. I have been too scared, but he just like, no, screw it. You're not a quarter day shooter anymore. You're not doing it. Nope. You're 850 and up. And guess what? I was busy, not as busy. So I had a little more time to myself. It was not quite so burned out all the time and I was making more money. And honestly, if I'm not making money, he wasn't making money. So he had a vested interest, you know, and making sure that my rates went up and he did it. So, you know, I have a studio manager, her name is Lani, Lani Martz and I would not be alive today without Lani Martz as a business.

Zack Arias: She is busting her ass right now trying to get this small business loan thing to go through with our bank. And it's a total nightmare. But she's busting it doing it. She was at the studio today pulling all our paperwork, pulling all our numbers like, and it's just a mess, dude. It's an, if I were trying to do it, there's no way I could do it. So part of me would tell my kids to go back to your question, let's bring it back to what I would tell my kids is that work hard to get up enough money that you can hire someone to do all the things that you're horrible at. Right? I'm horrible at bookkeeping. I am horrible at running numbers and getting things to an accountant and doing taxes. I am horrible at all of these things. I am a horrible at putting quotes together and getting proposals out to clients.

Zack Arias: Like I'm bad at those things. I am really good at showing up the day of the shoot with a smile on my face and a bag full of light and knocking it out of the park for my clients. I'm really good at that and I can follow up with them and I can help them and I can work on their social media campaigns and dude, I'm all about all of that. But as soon as it's like get all this paperwork done and file this and do that, dude, I f***ing suck all of that and I can't. I've tried and I'm horrible at it. So get you enough money to find you a Lani. Find you somebody and they don't need to know their f-stop from their bus stop. You know, they can just, they're just good at that thing. Lani is so organized. She's a people person.

Zack Arias: She loves to like talk on the phone and email and she knows QuickBooks inside and out and she's got some ins with some accountants that are helping us with things and like she's just amazing and she's worth 10 times more than I can pay her. And we're seriously at this point right now, if I'm going to get super honest, is like I'm holding my studio with open hands right now because I've got my just daily life at home bills. And then I have my studio bills and my studio is just like, if I have to sacrifice my studio and throw everything in storage and that's what I'm going to have to do. And we're looking at that point in the next 30 to 60 days of like, do we pay rent or do we pay Lani? And I told Lani, I'm like, you make sure you pay yourself first. If that studio, if we have to go and load it all into public storage, that's what we're going to do. But by God, you pay yourself first, Lani. Like you're more important than that studio ever will be. So yeah. Um, now I want go cry.

Andrew Hellmich: Me too. I don't have a Lani, but I have a Linda, but she's my wife. Also, I can't afford to pay her what she's worth either, but I feel you.

Zack Arias: I call her my work wife. Lani, she's my work wife. I could not ever without Lani, I can't even imagine life without Lani. I mean, yeah. You know, you have to work hard on your own, up to a point and when you can't anymore find somebody. Lani was just like someone in my circle of friends, you know, and she had done freelance production and stuff like that. She had kind of worked around. She understands how weird we all are. I'm like I need help with this stuff. And she's like, I'll do it. And she did it for cheap. I'm like, alright, cool. Come help me. Please settle.

Andrew Hellmich: Oh good. How long has she been with you for?

Zack Arias: Six years. Seven years.

Andrew Hellmich: Unreal.

Zack Arias: Something like that. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Lucky to have her, Zack. Lucky to have her. She sounds amazing.

Zack Arias: If she was sitting here she'd probably be like, no, Zack it's been eight. I'm bad.

Andrew Hellmich: She really does sound like Linda.

Zack Arias: She's great.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, this has been an absolute pleasure for me. You've shared so much and I know the listeners is going to get a ton from what you had to say and to share with us. I'm looking forward to the first listener commenting on one of your YouTube videos saying, Zack, I heard that interview with Andrew and I'm now charging $30,000 for weddings.

Zack Arias: Yes.

Andrew Hellmich: That's the message I'm looking for.

Zack Arias: Say screw it. I'm doing 50 grand.

Andrew Hellmich: Zack, I've mentioned your YouTube videos. What's the URL for the channel? What's the easiest way for someone to find you on YouTube?

Zack Arias: Well, I set up that channel so long ago under my old moniker of used film. All one word usedfilm and I never changed it so it was kind of weird, but if you just search up Zack, Z-A-C-K Arias, A-R-I-A-S dot com or just Zack Arias in YouTube, you'll find it.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. I'm going to add links to anywhere and everywhere people can find you in the show notes.

Zack Arias: I appreciate that.

Andrew Hellmich: Your YouTube videos, you've been recording. I've been loving them has been so good to see you back and I have as much fun reading the comments as I do watching you on the video as well.

Zack Arias: Well, thanks.

Andrew Hellmich: So congratulations with that, mate, and again, thank you so much for coming on sharing what you have and I can't wait to follow your journey.

Zack Arias: Well Andrew, I really appreciate you. I'm glad we finally were able to connect. I know we've been trying to connect a few times, but I'm glad this finally worked out.

Andrew Hellmich: Me too.

Zack Arias: Absolutely. Thank you so much.