352: Philip Warren – How to run profitable Christmas mini sessions for photographers

352: Philip Warren – How to run profitable Christmas mini Sessions for photographers

Andrew Hellmich: I've got Philip Warren from the UK on the line. Philip is a long time PhotobizX Premium member. He's a super talented wedding photographer based in South Wales. He's actually back from a wedding just last night. Got in at 3:00 AM and still was happy to jump on the call and do today's interview and the reason I've asked Philip on to the show is because of a post that he made inside the member's Facebook group in late December. He said in that post, "Did anyone do any Christmas mini sessions this year? How'd it go? I'm super happy with mine, considering I live in statistically one of the poorest areas in the UK and don't have an actual studio, I've done pretty well. So far I've made nearly £2500 profit and it's been some of the easiest work I've done. Each session was averaging around 60-75mins from start of shooting to delivery of the gallery. All 39 shoots were delivered within 24 hours, the majority the same day. A couple of social media post and one boosted post is all the advertising I've done. With more time, my own space and more advertising, I could book in 100+ easily." So that was the post that generated a lot of interest as you can imagine. And I immediately asked Philip to come on and record this interview so we can learn a little bit more about the strategy and tactics behind these mini shoots. So Philip, welcome to the podcast mate.

Philip Warren: Thank you very much. Lovely introduction. You give me there. Appreciate that. Something to keep me going.

Andrew Hellmich: I've got to keep you perked up after getting in at 3:00 AM. How are you actually feeling? Was it a good day?

Philip Warren: Uh, yeah, it was good day. It was good day it was worth it to be honest. So yeah, it was uh, I took my time. I could've been home a little earlier, but there you go. Getting the job done.

Andrew Hellmich: So that was a New Year's Eve wedding as well. So do you charge a premium for that?

Philip Warren: I should have, maybe. But it was a good venue, you know, nice couple, kind of a really good setup. And so it was one of those things where I'd rather do the wedding than kind of quibble over a couple of extra hours cause I typically stay pretty late anyway, so it doesn't make a huge amount of difference to me.

Andrew Hellmich: Nice. And looking at your website, I mean you have a beautiful website, I can see you are super talented. It looks from the outside looking in that you're busy, you're successful. There's no indication of portraits anywhere on your website. Not the one that I've seen. I know you're redoing your website. Why mini sessions and why portrait mini sessions at Christmas?

Philip Warren: Yeah, it all started because I got two girls. One nearly age four and one 18 months old. And like three years ago I started taking a couple of photographs of my oldest daughter and we've got a couple of friends that have got kids around the same age, so they started seeing those images, which we actually use for Christmas card. Then they asked me to do those, kind of replicate those images, which I was shooting in my living room. So I've done that. And then they obviously then definitely usual thing posting those images on Facebook and then I had a feeling my extended, you know, Facebook, friends asked then if I would shoot some of their children and it just sort of snowballed. And then I think last year I decided to try and take it a little step further and find somewhere that I could do this sort of thing and kind of almost productionize it to be honest without sounding too impersonal. Yeah, this come about really because I want to go shoot my kids. That is as simple as that.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. So did you actually do this last year successfully or was last year just the trial run?

Philip Warren: No, last year it was pretty good to be fair. I would say not as successful as this year, but you kind of just, it was the first year when I was in a location where I could kind of control it a little bit more instead of being in my living room and you know, moving things out of the way and I'm just uh, disrupting the my house. So I mean, yes. Yeah. It allowed me to kind of use our first year as a bit of a learning curve so I then applied it to this year. And I think it's worked out pretty well.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So just so I'm clear, in 2018 the lead up to Christmas, you did these sessions in your home?

Philip Warren: Yes, but I didn't do it this volume obviously. I'd done like maybe the 2017. Sorry, it would have been six or seven sessions in my home and then 2018 I made it kind of public how to a location and then I've done 38 shoots. I think it was. This year I want to really the total sheet quantity by two or three sessions up to, I think I went 40 sessions this year.

Andrew Hellmich: I think we're getting the years mixed up. So cause it's 2020 now. So 2019 the year just gone. That's the one you did 39.

Philip Warren: Yeah, yeah. That's 40. 2018 was 37 and then 2017 was, I think it was six or seven.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, so you're sticking around that 40 number.

Philip Warren: Yeah. Yeah. But I, to be honest, I'm not done anymore marketing for it. I was just letting it run because the situation again was not perfect this year. So I was kind of as long as I broke even initially and then you know, so I just wanted to see what I was doing, you know, where I was going too. But also it kind of give me a little bit of an indication of whether I should kind of look to have my own place as well as what I would do if I had a place that would allow me to do a volume of shoots.

Andrew Hellmich: Do you mean full time or just for these mini sessions for Christmas?

Philip Warren: Kind a bit of both really. I would like maybe to get into, you know, some portrait stuff and have main space, but if that come along with having somewhere where I could work, because at the moment I work in a shared working environment. So if I could sort of double up a meeting office studio and then run these mini sessions and kind of use that money to pay for the rent. And you know the rates that are go along with having your own place, then that would be a possibility. I'm kind of doing it as an a feeling because the only thing you'd really lose in, you know, once you've got enough bookings, which I think break even point was about 12 bookings. Once I had 12 bookings. It was just, you know, this, just see where this kind of ends up. But if I was looking to actually really push it, then I would look at the marketing side of things a lot differently than what I've actually done this year.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah. Cause you went in pretty softly. Let's get into exactly what you did in just a second. But knowing what you know now and having done this for Christmas, three years in a row, can you see other times of the year where you could do the same thing or is this really only a Christmas only...

Philip Warren: Potentially. I mean it depends on the kind of, if it was someone else looking to set this sort of thing up. It depends on the obviously area that they live in and the demographic and they start in the other. So when I live, it's not exactly the most affluent, the Bay area. So you know, Christmas is a special occasion. So it may be, you know, Easter would be or Halloween, those sorts of things where it invites kind of dressing up and something along those lines where they could apply to it. But I'm not sure. It depends without having some sort of presence in that area. It's kind of like weddings, you build up your brand and your credibility. So I'm not sure what if it, if I could do it straight away, like I've done it now, but the more mini sessions I'd done would allow me to do other things in the future, I think.

Andrew Hellmich: For sure. Okay. All right. Let's stick to what we know, what you know actually works and what you've done. Yeah. And so you said earlier that you needed 12 bookings to break even. So there's got to be some cost involved. So where are you doing or where did you do the shoots? Let's just say it's this year, even though it was last year now. For the most recent shoot, where did you do the shoots?

Philip Warren: Yeah, this is the problem of doing it on the 1st of January, isn't it? So I think the way I approached this was I wanted to have the least amount of out goings possible and the quickest turnaround time. So I was looking at things like essentially what would be my hourly rate per shoot. So if I was if someone to think me, someone actually thinking about doing this sort of thing, maybe partnered up with a restaurant that has a space or another shop that allows it like a coffee shop. It's got a spare room or things like that because well you can say to them is I'm going to be bringing, you know, X amount of families and they're going to be spending money in your shop. You allow me to have this space for free. And then you know, it was mutually beneficial and so 2018 I was in a local just kind of a farm shop.

Philip Warren: So they sound like local produce. They have cafe but they have a little function room and they have this little Santas kind of set up there so we weren't really well aware. They come into the shoots and me and then maybe go and have some food. So for me it was really important that I wasn't paying out a monthly rate on this on where I could shoot this because then that's just going into my profit. So I wanted to go with someone that, you know, they could do a bit of cross promotion as well, you know, if they've got X amount of thousand followers on Facebook and stuff and they can share my post, it just helps in both ways. So I kinda kept an eye on that. I knew that when I think, let's say over the 40 sessions that I, you know, best top 40 sessions I've done in 2018, I would say three quarters of that. Um, those bookings then spent money in that shop,

Andrew Hellmich: Is that right? It was that high?

Philip Warren: Yeah, it was incredible. Because what you get is the family to come in. Maybe they'd wait, they grab a coffee, maybe some cake or whatever, you know, and then do the shoot. And then for the time, I was always around that lunchtime, kind of timing. So all the time we'd do the shoot, they might go and have some food. So we've done a couple of little incentives for them to go in some discounts and stuff. So it just worked really well.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. So when you first approached the farm shop, were they open to the idea? Like did you have a previous relationship with them? Were they're open to the idea of giving this to you for free? Okay, tell me more.

Philip Warren: Yeah, so I had really good friends with the people that run it, so I actually run their Facebook account as well. So it kind of, it was a natural thing to do. I've known them for years so, but I'll come on to where I didn't actually run my entire shoots that this year for a number of reasons, but are coming around in a minute. But, you know, if I was doing it again, I would definitely approach a shop that had a reason for other people to spend money there; just so you can say, "Give me the space. If you're not using it, then I'm going to be bringing in 40 families. Chances are they're going to spend some money in this, not actually costing you anything."

Andrew Hellmich: I love it. I can see this applying to so many different stores, you know, I mean some people sell stuff at Christmas.

Philip Warren: Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: This would also work for pet photographers doing something similar. They could get into, you know, pet supply stores and set up shoots there. I mean, yeah, the options are endless really.

Philip Warren: It is. Yeah. And the thing is they're actually based in a, like an industrial unit, so they had loads of space. So I was just sort of in the back area. I'll go my way and they would just come in. I'd almost use the cafe area as a holding ground for the people. So they'd often turn up quite early, grab a coffee and then come in and see me then. So it was good.

Andrew Hellmich: Love it. That's nice for the families too. I would love that if I was going for a shoot and then it was at a coffee shop. Perfect.

Philip Warren: Yeah, it's great. Honestly. And they also had like a Santa crocker there so they can kind of like, I'm a little experience with, you know, meeting Santa and stuff like that, so it's really good. It's really good.

Andrew Hellmich: But there's no Santas in your actual photos. So you weren't paying for a Santa, were you?

Philip Warren: No, no. Mine was a totally separate area and I have to be kind of quite direct with that because I didn't want people getting confused that they were getting one thing and maybe not having something else. And also I didn't want to use [inaudible] because it would almost cheapen what I was doing if someone was coming in and not having a photo shoot for then taking their own photographs when they kind of see, you know, a Santa or whatever.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes. All right, I'm going to come back but as far as your setup goes. We'll talk a little bit about it, but it looks gorgeous. It looks classy. It doesn't look like a shopping mall. Santa's set up. It looks really gorgeous.

Philip Warren: Yeah, thank you.

Andrew Hellmich: So you've got really no costs from the farm shops. So where are the cost? Why did you need 12 shoots to break even?

Philip Warren: So the cost was just in the set, the backdrops, the props. I mean, I could have done it a little cheaper, but then I think you'd probably get a, you know, a cheaper lookign set. I mean that set was intended to be quite lightweight and portable to a point because that's one thing you have to keep in mind. If you are in someone else's property, then you are liable for them to say, can you move it? So I needed it to be quite manageable. I didn't want anything like built, something that was like a wooden wall, something where they would take ages to put up and set, you know, and take down. So,

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So the white brick wall that I can see in your photos, is that part of the warehouse?

Philip Warren: Oh that's material backdrop?

Andrew Hellmich: Is that right? Wow. Okay. It looks amazing. Fantastic.

Philip Warren: Thank you. Yeah, yeah. It took me a while to find that sort of thing. But it's a, it's a, yeah, it's just a microfiber backdrop on a, just a regular frame, you know, with the, almost like lighting stands either side.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. So did you buy this set or did you hire it?

Philip Warren: I bought everything. Some of the things that actually appeared in this year's set up are my own kind of Christmas decorations so I kind of used things that I had. I went on Facebook Marketplace, bought the fireplace around for like, you know, really cheap bits and pieces that I know that I'm going to use in my house anyway so they always tend to be used. And then little props, I think are the kind of seek than I used a little matching basket as well for newborns. Yeah, I think the cost of that, the total cost of the set was £374.

Andrew Hellmich: Right, okay. That's not a huge outlay.

Philip Warren: No, it's not. Not really. I think the biggest chunk of that money was the £100 for the backdrop. So you know, if I'm doing 35 on a session booking fee, then you know that's 10 plus and I'm in profit.

Andrew Hellmich: Yeah, I love it. I love it. And you said there earlier that you didn't only photograph at the farm shop. Did you have two locations this year?

Philip Warren: Yes. I did, yes. So the problem was between 2018 and 2019 they changed the set up in the farm shop. They turned one of the areas that I was originally in into a function room, which obviously they wanted to bring people, have food and they sat near that. So I was quite limited on the times that I could actually do my shoots. So it was getting to the point where I used again, so I'm actually losing money here so I got offered another place for free. It wasn't the same sort of nice surroundings, you know empty shot, but it's right in the middle of the town that I live. So it's a really nice spot. It's totally empty. It was pretty cold, but no one really cared. They loved the set, they loved the experience. Cause I tend to do it quite relaxed. You know, I do the shoots every hour. They don't take an hour. They take on average, I would say 15 minutes to do the shoots. The kids are normally pretty good. And yeah, they just come in, they do the shoot and then they disappear. So it's, uh, it was pretty good. But the other thing that, that place that I was in is actually one of the places I'm looking at potentially moving into in the new year. So it was almost like a try before I buy. And that's kind of a side note as well.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. So you've got your locations. Was the next thing then to run your ads or to try and get people booked in?

Philip Warren: Yeah, so the first thing I would say to anyone is before you do anything is get your process nailed. So you don't want to be spending time editing. It needs to be, you know, you've got to lock your settings in. You lock in your camera settings, everything you need to know. Even I created preset in Lightrooms where everything was coming in, you know, looking the way I want it. All I was doing from kind of edit to edit was just cropping and straightening. I have a terrible tendency to lean to the left a little bit. Most of my photographs are off a little bit. So on-the second foot, everything being in straight line.

Andrew Hellmich: So you're shooting handheld with the two studio lights, is it, is that all just one either side of you?

Philip Warren: Yeah, so I'm using really the cheapest 48" OctoBoxes with Godox AD200. So it's all, you know, no wires. So it's all light. You know, I take it home with me. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich: Wow. Okay.

Philip Warren: Great. They were brilliant. Super easy.

Andrew Hellmich: And why not a tripod?

Philip Warren: Because my mindset was, the way I structured my price and I want, I don't care about prints when it comes to Christmas mini-sessions I want people to buy digital files because they have 100% profit. For me to make the same amount of profit off prints, they would have to spend way more than the top package and the digital costs. So for me, if I could get a variety of images in that session, whether it is like closeup head shots, you know, portrait, I do black and whites, color, I always aim to deliver, I would say probably 50% more than the top digital package whether it's a number of digital files. So what I mean by that is you can buy 20 digital files for X amount of money, but I would always aim to deliver 35 to 40 so it they just go, "I might as well I'll just buy them all." And most of the time they just bought all the digital files.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay. All right. Let's get into your packages in a little bit. So, and the way you did your sales, so you get your workflow sorted out. So you have your lighting set up, you have your background set up, you have your settings in your camera, your presets. So everything's got, you know who you're not going to be under stress on the day. Is that what you're saying?

Philip Warren: Yeah, yeah. So the other thing, part of that is actually the booking process itself is get all the information in a booking form initially. So you don't have to worry about the name of the child or the email address, what the gallery name is going to be. So get all of that initially and then you're good to go.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. So did you have a gallery set up then for each client beforehand?

Philip Warren: Maybe if I was a little bit more prepared, I could've done that. But my workflow is, I mean the light room I create, like I'm using Pixieset for the gallery delivery so I create the Pixieset gallery within Lightroom. So it doesn't really make any difference if you do it beforehand because you just drag from one folder into the Pixieset folder and then publish and then you jump onto the Pixieset gallery to send to the client.

Andrew Hellmich: Right. And you've got your pricing's all set up, everything's ready to go.

Philip Warren: Yeah. Yeah. The way that I actually set it up was I used my friends first and foremost cause they obviously wanted their images again. So I use them as the guinea pig. They were there just to kind of get me set up, get the presets right, get the gallery up and running and then I send it up to them as a test.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. Just out of curiosity, do you charge your friends for doing these sessions?

Philip Warren: I don't. But this year, I did. I actually feel terrible about it but the only reason....

Andrew Hellmich: Oh do you, really?

Philip Warren: There's a couple of reasons. I didn't before, but they were taking up kind of primed real estate in a Saturday morning. Well, you're actually, you know, you're not just costing you the time to do it, you're costing me the money that someone else could be booking in. So, and I spoke to them about it and they were cool with it and they ended up just booking, just paying the session fee. And I said, look, you can just, I'll just strip out any print, you know, uh, added costs, they'll download fees or whatever you just pay you for this session, because I knew if I get all my session fees and then I can break even and go on from there.

Andrew Hellmich: Got it. So you said get all your systems in place. So what are you using to capture names, booking details, time slots? What are you using for that?

Philip Warren: So I set up a webpage, which I think that I share. I think I can share it anyway in the group, and within that webpage is a hidden page on my site. So I don't really want anyone kind of finding it, which maybe I should but within that page is an embedded Acuity scheduling link. So then within the Acuity I can pick up the times that I would like those shoots to appear, the charge of the booking and any custom fields, whether it's contact number, mobile phone number, name of gallery or child's name. So that way when they come in they paid the £35 booking fee. I've got all the information that I need. It actually will send them an email and a text reminder the day before just to say, look, can you confirm that you are coming into the session? And then they would just, you know, just say yes because sometimes you might get a session in it like one in the middle of the week. So you just want to make sure that they are going to turn out.

Andrew Hellmich: Yes. But they've already paid their £35 booking fee, haven't they?

Philip Warren: Yeah. Now, I would say in 2018 I did do it slightly different. What I'd done a £15 deposit, and then they paid £20 on the day. And I just got a bit of a, I don't know, just a bit of a pain, really. Just people having cash and they're trying to do online transactions and stuff. So I guess these, I approached this was I wanted the last fuss possible. I just wanted it to endure the shoots and deliver them. I didn't want to do anything with any paper, any comeback. I wanted everything to be automated, but I wanted this experience itself to be the king. So when they come in, they're enjoying themselves.

Andrew Hellmich: I love this approach. So look, I'll add a screenshot of the landing page so you don't have to hand out that link, Philips.

Philip Warren: No, it's fine. I'm happy to pull the link on if you want.

Andrew Hellmich: Okay, great. Okay, so the listener will see then, or the members will see that they click on that link. If I'm interested in, you could take them there via Facebook or whoever you're advertising. I can see straight away the first thing is that £35 pounds for the Christmas photos. I choose a date and a time and that's where I would enter my other information. I'd make my payment. And then down below that it's very clear that there's a 30 minute session, one backdrop set up for the option to change certain decorations. And then you go in to say the £35 is for the session fee only, any prints or downloads would be additional pricing and can be found at the bottom of the page. It made it so simple. There's nothing hidden. Everything's up front and super clear. I love that.

Philip Warren: Yeah. I think the other thing is, while I didn't, I didn't want to toss people out. I wanted to make it attractive enough that they just said, well yeah, that's, you know, that's going to be a nice present for the [inaudible] mother or something. So because like I said, where I live isn't that affluent. So it was just enough that, and that's why that I wanted to make sure it was all automated. I was just, you know, I'd wake up in the morning and you just see Stripe notifications of payments and that's, you know, it's like that, that's kind of the dream. You making money while you sleep.

Andrew Hellmich: I love it.

Philip Warren: So yeah, for me, you know, cause I shot so many weddings this year that I just didn't want to add any complexity to my Christmas as well. I just wanted to go in and do the shoots just delivered. But also the clients themselves love the fact that I was turning the images around within, you know, sometimes within a couple of hours.

Andrew Hellmich: All right, let's get back into that in just a second. Cause I'd love to hear about your process, but how did you get people to this landing page to actually pay their booking fee and choose a time? How are you advertising?

Andrew Hellmich: Mate, this has been super helpful. You've been so generous with your time and your information. It'd be crazy not to consider this if you had the opportunity to do this, particularly if you know studio lighting and you love kids, this is ideal. Mate, where's the best place for other members for listeners to check out more of your work?

Philip Warren: Probably, I would say Instagram. I post quite often on there. Obviously Facebook, but yeah, my Instagram on Facebook is @philwarrenphoto.

Andrew Hellmich: So do you get Phil or Philip mostly?

Philip Warren: My mother tends to call me Philip. Hold on something wrong. Yeah. Anything really. Yeah, Phil. Phil, mostly I think.

Andrew Hellmich: All right. Awesome. Phil, mate, you've been amazing. I haven't talked a lot about your wedding photography. I mean, I mentioned it briefly in the intro, but mate you are, you're a fantastic photographer mate. Your work is amazing. It's absolutely gorgeous.

Philip Warren: Oh thank you. I appreciate that.

Andrew Hellmich: Mate you deserve every success that you're getting. You're amazing. Let me finish by asking you something just about the Christmas photos. You have this, you've got the, the freestanding candles, you've got the nice Christmas tree, you've got these beautiful set up. Do some of the kids just thrash it?

Philip Warren: Yeah. I think it goes back to kind of what I was saying about the parents. They kind of already know what the kids are going to be like. So you do have to be wary of that. Maybe don't spend too much money on something that's fragile. But yeah, the Noel letters on the back, they kind of bit the dust a few times so they've just they've been held together with some glue I think, which you can't see, but it's not a pretty sight in the back of those letters. Yeah. Otherwise, yeah, if you can get stuff on that, and that's where like Facebook Marketplace really useful. You can get second hand items. Or the other thing we've done on those Noel letters are really good. So I bought those like five years ago in January after the sales. So a lot of times shops will sell off Christmas decorations in January. They can't or don't want to hold onto them till the following year. So there's quite a few items that I picked up in January, which should be really heavily discounted.

Andrew Hellmich: Fantastic. I love it. What a great idea, Mate. You better snap those up before the listeners hear this interview.

Philip Warren: Yeah, there's a couple of things from the shop Next in the UK, which is typically pretty expensive Christmas decorations, but they do sell some cheap stuff in January.

Andrew Hellmich: Great tip. Phil. I'm going to let you get back to your bed or to the couch or wherever you want to get to so you can rest there Mate. Have a fantastic 2020, Mate, and again, thank you so much for coming on and sharing what you have.

Philip Warren: I appreciate that. Thanks for everything you do as well.