349: Kristen Kidd – How to set up and run a profitable photography book project

349: Kristen Kidd – How to set up and run a profitable photography book project

Andrew Hellmich:
Today's guest is a Philadelphia-based family and pet photographer. Her name's Kristen Kidd. Like many of us, she was working a 2nd job while making the transition to full time photography. In 2017, she stepped away from her social worker job to fully dedicate herself to photography business and her clients. I was contacted by Kristen's PR agent, Patrick, about setting up this interview, which rarely happens. And this all came about after Kristen authored the coffee table book, “A Woman’s Best Friend.” The book documents stories and shows photos based on one question: When has your dog been there for you in a way a human could not? 100% of the book's proceeds go to a local Animal Shelter. But my big question to Patrick before saying yes to this interview was has the book helped Kristen's business? He said yes. We scheduled this interview. And I'm rapt to have Kristen with us now! Kristen, welcome!

Kristen Kidd:
Thank you. It's so good to be here.

Andrew Hellmich:
Yeah, look, it's great to have you on the interview. Tell me about the book. What sparked it? Was it a business idea? Was it just the idea of having a project? Why did you start putting together this book?

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I love, in addition to running my photography business, I love writing and having a background in social work. Obviously I love connections with people and making connections and building community. And so the idea came to me for a coffee table book called woman's best friend because up to that point, over the first, you know, year or two of really throwing myself into my business, I was photographing women with their dogs more than anything else serendipitously because of my relationships with local rescues. And there are beautiful, wonderful, very deeply connecting important conversations that happened before I even pick up my camera with each person who has a photo session with me. And through those conversations, you know, I heard these just amazing stories about how their dogs had been there for them in these seminal moments in their life in ways a lot of times that humans couldn't be there for them.

Kristen Kidd:
And I was like, there's something here. This is important and this would really be an honor to compile a group of stories or a tome or aTestament to our bonds and our connections with our canine companions. And so I knew that there was something there and I wanted to explore that further and I thought that it would also help a lot of women who maybe felt very alone in their experiences. So it was all just kind of like the inspiration began on that ground floor of just doing what I knew how to do, which was photograph, you know, humans with their bonds, with their canine companion.

Andrew Hellmich:
Sure. I understand the great intentions with, you know, putting together something like this and also it'd be fulfilling for you photographically and also in a writing sense. What about the business? Like were you thinking, okay, I can book these shoots and then make sales on the back end. I know the profits from the actual book sales are going to the shelter, but was this going to benefit your business at all?

Kristen Kidd:
Right. Yeah, yeah. And great question. Because I needed to know that too. You know, cause here's the thing, like when you're running a business, most of us don't have the luxury to completely step away from the business to pursue no matter how awesome and amazing the endeavor is and how generous it is. You can't just like stop running your business because you also have to pay a mortgage and, and do all those things.

Andrew Hellmich:
Exactly.

Kristen Kidd:
So how does it benefit an organization who's doing, you know, worthy cause. And at the same time you're able to not only maintain your business but thrive it. And so answering those questions came from talking to people who had already done this work in one capacity or another. So I have a wonderful friends out in Reno who started the project called FURever Reno, F-U-R. So Furever Reno.

Andrew Hellmich:
Oh yes. Got it.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah, yeah. Of course, right? It's always just assume that the spelling has been changed to have something to do with paws and fur. So Furever Reno, they were doing it before I was doing it and they were photographing families who had adopted rescue dogs. And so I saw what they were doing. I was really curious about it. So I did a lot of brain picking with them and since then they've grown and things have shifted and changed for them and they've become Furever USA, still the same mission. And for me I knew I wanted to niche it to this specific angle of a woman's relationship with her dog because that's where I'd been listening to for about two years were these stories and that's what I knew and what I felt like was important. So it was similar to what they were doing, but it was, you know, my own kind of thing. And then also there was a lot that was learned about it from Steve Saporito Education as well. And so there is some brain picking kind of involved there. So it was going to different photographers and different resources that I had already established who were doing some similar kind of approach to this endeavor and really leaning into their expertise and then curtailing it to my own endeavor, my own ambitions, my own style and project and things like that.

Andrew Hellmich:
Kristen, I feel like this prelude that you've given us is like, is that because as a photographer you feel or as an artist you feel guilty that someone might see this as copying? Like is that why? It sounds like you're trying to justify your approach?

Kristen Kidd:
Oh no, no, not at all. I just like to give credit where credit is due.

Andrew Hellmich:
Sure. Okay.

Kristen Kidd:
And so I think that we can all learn from each other. Absolutely. And I think that that's probably one of the greatest things just in general about being a human, much less being a business owner. And so I think that that's really, really important. So I like to give shout outs cause I had a lot of people just in general in my life pour into me and mentor me and now I take a lot of pride in being able to flip it back around. And so I think more than anything I want for people to know that my greatest successes have come from paying attention and tapping into the resources around me. So that's really what that's about.

Andrew Hellmich:
I love that. Cool. Okay. Then so business wise, what did you take away from the guys in Reno and from Steve?

Kristen Kidd:
Right. Here, so you know, what you can do is you can design projects essentially that, and hey this could be anything. It doesn't have to be a book, but you can design a project where you are aligning yourself with a nonprofit organization. Um, you are offering some percentage of whatever profits from what you are doing to return to them. And it's just a phenomenal win-win for whatever that organization is because they have to do very little other than believe in you, have a relationship with you, and to share what you're doing with their community who already believes in them. And so those, it's just bringing you clients and who believe in what you're doing and what you're doing for that organization.

Andrew Hellmich:
Sure. So in this case, for you, it was this local animal shelter who were getting 100% of the proceeds from the book?

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah. From the book. And so each person who came in had the ability to make of that experience, whatever they would love to make of it. And so they had the ability to design their own customized wall art from their experience as well. And so they had the ability to not only have the potential of being featured in the book, but also to have their own personal wall art that honors the legacy of their relationship and their connection with their dog, which only seemed fair. You know.

Andrew Hellmich:
Sure, sure.

Kristen Kidd:
Everybody can come in.

Andrew Hellmich:
So the profits from those wall art sales, they stay with you and the profits from the book sales go to the shelter?

Kristen Kidd:
You got it. Yep, absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich:
Right. Ok so, this was essential. I mean, as much as this is a project, this is still a business pursuit, isn't it?

Kristen Kidd:
Yup. Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich:
Awesome. Okay, that's great. So I've run similar things in my area. I know this is a popular approach, well, I wouldn't say popular, but it's not uncommon for portrait photographers to use this approach. So tell me, with the animal shelter, did you already have a relationship with them or did you have to establish that from the start?

Kristen Kidd:
I already had a relationship with them for about two or three years and they were pretty much the business and organization that I was most strongly aligned with.

Andrew Hellmich:
Okay. So you pitched the idea of a book to them.

Kristen Kidd:
Yes.

Andrew Hellmich:
Which I imagine and the sales of the book, they're going to get excited about that cause they're going to receive a profit. Did they help bring clients to you?

Kristen Kidd:
Yes, that was absolutely necessary. Like I could not have raised the money that I ended up raising for them. I couldn't have done it without them continually. Not just once going, Hey you should check this out, you should check this project out. But continually making it a part of their social media and marketing outreach.

Andrew Hellmich:
Right. Okay. So for that to happen, cause I think this is such a vital part of these projects succeeding, did you have to constantly put, maybe pressure's not the right word, but did you have to keep encouraging them to post and keep reminding people to come in for these sessions?

Kristen Kidd:
I did not. This community was so strong and my presence was already so established within that community that there was a trust and a rapport built that everybody was just pretty much gung ho about it. And so there were times where I would say I would reach back out and go, Hey, this is this special thing that I just posted and if you guys could share it, that would be great. A lot of times they are already on top of it, but there was no need to continue pursuing them and saying, I need you to do this, I need you to do this kind of thing.

Andrew Hellmich:
Right. Oh wow. That's a lot easier on you then. That's for sure.

Kristen Kidd:
It is.

Andrew Hellmich:
What does the book retail for?

Kristen Kidd:
So this particular book retailed for 125

Andrew Hellmich:
That's U.S. dollars?

Kristen Kidd:
Uhuh.

Andrew Hellmich:
So who's buying it? Is it only the people that are featured or the women that are featured in the book?

Kristen Kidd:
It's the people who were featured in the book and their friends and family and the people affiliated with the rescue predominantly.

Kristen Kidd:
The way that the project work was there is a participation fee for every woman who participated in the project and that was essentially the session fee. Instead of going to me, it went to the project and it sponsored the cost of a book.

Andrew Hellmich:
Oh wow. Okay. That's a big bonus for the animal shelter.

Kristen Kidd:
It is. Yes. It's huge. And at the same time, a lot of the women were coming in and investing in their own wall art to a beautiful degree to have this wonderful legacy of their pets as well. And so being able to take that session fee and just apply it over to the sponsorship of the book, and therefore for every woman that was in the book, essentially a book was sponsored. So that meant that for the number of women in the book, it was a hundred percent profit going to the rescue. So that's where we were able to raise a lot of money for the rescue.

Andrew Hellmich:
Okay so you really did take, I mean maybe not a risk, but you really were putting all your eggs into that basket of making sales on the back end.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah. Yeah. But that's really, I mean what I specialize in too.

Andrew Hellmich:
What do you mean?

Kristen Kidd:
So wall art, custom designed wall art. So that's normally what, when anyone who comes through the door, that's what they're coming through the door for is to design their custom wall art collections. And so, you know, some people may come in and not invest at a high level and that's fine. And some people come in and invest more and it all, you know, when you have a, when you're booking so much when you're booking so many sessions, I was finding that it was generally evening out and it was really contingent upon me. The pressure was on me to provide a phenomenal experience. And what I've seen is that when people are having a phenomenal, exceptional experience that is deeply meaning to them on an emotional level, then they're investing.

Andrew Hellmich:
Yes, I got it. Okay. Cause they've had such a great time with you, there's so much meaning behind this session that they've opened up, they're talking to you, the photos that you produced really have a strong connection to them and that they want to purchase this wall art.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean essentially it should be taking them to the most powerful and meaningful emotions in their life. You know, I'll tell clients when they come in, I, I deeply believe that the wall art that they're designing here is the most important wall art they'll ever have because it's about everything that they love most and matters most to them in their life.

Andrew Hellmich:
Yeah. So Good.

Kristen Kidd:
So yeah.

Andrew Hellmich:
Tell me about the client. When does the client first know first about the cost? So that the a $100 for the session fee and where that's going on also that they are likely or they're going to want to purchase wall art afterwards. When do they learn all that stuff?

Kristen Kidd:
Yes. So ideally I love to have people come into my studio and speak one-on-one.

Andrew Hellmich:
Before the session?

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah. Before the session. Now I can do this over the phone. Personally for me, and I think partially coming from like a social worker background and you know, loving and thriving off of deep emotional connection. When at all possible I want for, you know, that lead, that potential client to come in and sit across from me and I want for them to see, looking into my eyes, you know, how much I care and to create a warm and welcoming environment from the start. So for me, I love for them to come into the studio if at all possible.

Kristen Kidd:
Obviously for, you know, for some people that's not, and that's okay because you know, we can do this over the phone as well. So they come in, I will talk with them for the project. I mean this happens with every person I photograph regardless of whether I'm doing a project or not. It just might be tailored in a specific direction based on the project. So they'll sit across from me and I'll really get to know what this experience is for them and what their story is. And then, you know, once we do that, we build that rapport and we, you know, we really lay the groundwork of why this is important for them. And I'll tell them actually before we start, Hey, I'm going to, I want to ask about, you know, this bond, this connection, whatever, this relationship. And then, you know, we can talk about the gallery cause I have a gallery of all of our photographic customized wall art options in the studio.

Kristen Kidd:
So they're going to see that while they're there and I let them know that and that, you know, they can ask me any questions that they have and just letting them know that this goes both ways. And so we'll have that really beautiful poignant conversation where it really brings to life what's possible through this photographic experience for them. And then I'll tell them the details of the project, like how the project works, like nuts and bolts, everything that you and I have been talking about to this point. And then ask them if they have any questions and I'll tell them of course, you know this is the participation fee, this participation fee is normally a session fee that goes directly to me. But for this project it's not going to me. It's going to the project and this is how it works. Do you have any questions? Do you want to be a part of this project? And normally at that point they're like, yeah I do.

Andrew Hellmich:
So at that point then Kristen, have they actually seen your wall art prices at that stage or is it more focused on the project and...

Kristen Kidd:
It's more focused on the project. They haven't seen the wall art pricing or anything yet. They have seen all the wall art. And so you know, walking in, they're continually taking that in with their eyes cause they're sitting in the gallery while we're talking. And then once we talk about the project itself and then if they want to be a part of it. And then I tell them that we're going to take a tour of the gallery and we'd go through the gallery and at that point I'll give them, you know, price points for each thing. And we really do have a little something for everyone so they can truly make of it. You know what they will, if they want to come in and invest in, you know, a couple of prints or an album or if they want to design some larger scale wall art, it's all possible and then they can visualize, fully visualize what it is and know what that price point is for each thing. And they can ask me questions about and they can lay hands on it, you know?

Andrew Hellmich:
Right. So I'm looking at your website here at the moment, and I can see like you have a wall art collection called The Yellowstone. Is that something like a 30x30 with two 14x14s either side or something like that?

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah, yeah, it's roughly, yeah. Yeah, roughly that size.

Andrew Hellmich:
So you would have that on display in your studio, a version of that?

Kristen Kidd:
Yep.

Andrew Hellmich:
Okay. So with The Yellowstone, for example. How much would that cost a client?

Kristen Kidd:
So, it's currently, there's a couple of different sizes for it, and currently I have it at 2,500 for the more popular size.

Andrew Hellmich:
Okay, great. So are some of these project clients spending that much.

Kristen Kidd:
Yup. Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich:
This is awesome. This is a really great project all around for everyone.

Kristen Kidd:
Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely. They get to have like their greatest dreams come true and designing wall art and honoring the legacy of their four legged family members in whatever capacity they want and whatever resonates with them.

Andrew Hellmich:
For sure.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah, absolutely. And then the rescue is doing great because they're making all the profits from the book sale.

Andrew Hellmich:
Yeah. The book sales and yeah, exactly.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah, absolutely.

Andrew Hellmich:
I love it. Did you ever, or do you ever get any kickback or pushback from clients when they see that, Hey, this project is also going to be pretty profitable for you if they spend $2,500?

Kristen Kidd:
No, no, not really. Because they know that they're free to invest. Whatever it means to them.

Andrew Hellmich:
I like the way you put that.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah. Yeah. There's no like, I mean, well I think if anybody is, would be prone to give pushback, they probably wouldn't want to participate in a project anyway. It's not for them. You know? And I think probably because of the rapport and trust that had already been, that groundwork had already been laid. They knew that I really mean what I say and I believe in what I do. And I think it's kind of one of those like support local, like that group of people who I'm proud to call my people. They really believe in supporting local. And so any opportunity that they have to invest in a local artist or in a local business, they love doing that and they get joy out of it. But not only that, I mean the most important thing, the most important thing is that they get ownership of this, this artistic endeavor that also helps a cause that they believe in and provides them with something they've been wanting anyway.

Kristen Kidd:
I mean that's the thing really is that it's very permission giving. A lot of times we want these things in our lives, but we won't let ourselves have them unless there's some other contingency. And for some people that contingency is that they know that part of what they're doing is going to something bigger than them. They've wanted the session with Fifi forever, but they weren't, they're not picking up the phone until they see that the rescue that they got Fifi from has this great opportunity and then they can give themselves permission to have that thing that they so dearly already wanted and they didn't even know it was possible that they could have it like this. I mean, we have so much, there's so little that people know is possible as far as like artistic design in photography, like how their photos can be proudly and prominently displayed in their home. And for them to be able to walk into the gallery and go, Oh, I didn't know it could be metal or acrylic or this high quality or that it's okay for me to have it be this prominent and this substantial. It's like, yeah, it's everything that matters most to you. Let's have fun.

Andrew Hellmich:
Yeah. I love that. I love that approach. With getting these clients through the door and into the studio, you said that the shelter was doing some promotion on social media. Were you doing anything yourself as well?

Kristen Kidd:
Oh sure, yeah, absolutely. I mean I just designed a lot of like Canva, you know, Canva, the website. Did a lot of like Canva-styled posts leading up to the release of the book. I did a really very simple video on Animoto that was kind of like a trailer for the book that was really moving and featured some of the photos from the woman who had participated. Wherever I could I utilize the relationships that I was building for them to kind of, you know, be an army for me. Cause that's always where you're going to have the most success is with the relationships with the people who already believe in you and trust you.

Andrew Hellmich:
So what they were referring their friends were they?

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah, yeah, they were.

Andrew Hellmich:
Was there an incentive to do that?

Kristen Kidd:
Um, I'm pausing because I'm trying to remember when I officially kind of started a referral program. At some point I started a referral program and so there was. But it really, I mean that wasn't necessary because you know, a lot of the women who were participating were, they just believed in it so much and loved their experience and it was meaningful to them. And so they would share about it pretty openly. Yeah.

Andrew Hellmich:
I'm guessing most of this then was, and correct me if I'm wrong, was on social media. If that's the case, was it Facebook, Instagram, Twitter? Which was the most effective for you?

Kristen Kidd:
Facebook and Instagram. I'm still, I do a lot on Facebook and I know like Instagram is kind of rising above Facebook and a lot of different ways. But, and now I've begun to do a little bit more with Instagram as far as like ads and stuff like that go. But it was pretty general, basic stuff. I mean really it was the relationship with the organization and with the people affiliated that did the heavy lifting. And by that I mean me directly sharing to them and them directly taking it to their people. And then any other relationships that I had that were applicable to the endeavor, you know, reaching out to those people and going, Hey, we're doing this. Isn't this exciting? Don't you want to be a part of this? And you know, really leveraging those relationships and those connections.

Andrew Hellmich:
Nice. Did you cap the number of, what was going to call them, I guess models, clients

Kristen Kidd:
Participants.

Andrew Hellmich:
Participants, yeah, in the book? Or did you have a number in mind that, okay, I need to get a hundred and that's it?

Kristen Kidd:
So, I think as I was going along, I mean it was really, I was going for a page number and then visualizing that it was, um, then it would be one person per spread. So it was a hundred pages was what I was thinking, which then needs 50 people. Now I was willing to be flexible with that and knew I could kind of like kind of alter the design in some ways, but roughly visualizing it in my own mind. That's kind of what I saw coming together. And it did work out that way. We had 60 I think. I haven't looked at the numbers and a little bit, so forgive me, but we had about 60 people who signed up to participate somewhere around there. And then we had I think like 10 or 11 that something happened like in their lives. Like they decided they were going to participate and then they were like, we, you know, this happened, we're moving or you know, whatever. And so they couldn't end up doing it, but they left their participation fee. So they kept it with the project because they wanted to see the project succeed. So that's mostly the case. There's a couple people who are like, can I have my money back? And you know, and that was, that was fine. I didn't, you know, sometimes life wallops you and I get it.

Andrew Hellmich:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Kristen Kidd:
So that was a thing. And then about, I think it was 43 or 45 women, their stories made it in the book.

Andrew Hellmich:
Oh okay. So not every woman had a story that made it, but they had, may have had photos.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah. Yeah. And then there was kind of like a thank you page toward the end that featured pretty much pretty much everyone who participated got their photo in the book. It was just that 43 I believe it was, was the final number. Women had their stories and photos in some capacity in the book.

Andrew Hellmich:
Got it. Tell me about the story part, cause you said you love to write. Did you use audio equipment and record a conversation? Did you take notes? Did you shorthand? How did you do the writing?

Kristen Kidd:
All of it. Yeah. Predominantly I use a recording device and that was, I think I use the blue microphone and just hooked it up to my computer and use GarageBand and I'm breaking this down for you in detail because I needed somebody to break it down in detail for me.

Andrew Hellmich:
That's all good. So you did this in person, you're face to face and was it before the session? After the session?

Kristen Kidd:
Oh, before the session. Everything happens before the session and I mean, honestly, the only thing different I was doing, you know, as far as like my client relationships or anything like that, the client experience, I should say, the only thing that was different about the client experience was that they were going to be featured in this book.

Andrew Hellmich:
Oh, so you do everything else the same.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah. Everything else is pretty much the same. I normally have the exact same conversation because all we're doing is we're unearthing what's most important to the client, which should always be what we lead with because that's what we're here for.

Andrew Hellmich:
I totally love this. I think this is really the secret of the success of your business in addition to your photography.

Kristen Kidd:
Yes. Yes it is.

Andrew Hellmich:
But you have these in-depth personal conversation with your clients. They already have an emotional bond to their subject, which becomes an emotional bond to the work you're creating. They have to buy it.

Kristen Kidd:
They don't have to, but they want to.

Andrew Hellmich:
Of course. They've laid their heart bare and peeled the layers back.

Kristen Kidd:
Yeah, exactly. And also in laying their heart bare, then when I pick up my camera, that just comes to life. And that's exactly, that's exactly, I mean, if they're investing to this level, then that's exactly what should be on their walls. That's what they're here for. Right?

Andrew Hellmich:
Yeah.

Kristen Kidd:
That's what they're showing up for.

Andrew Hellmich:
I don't want to get too sidetracked, but I imagine you take exactly the same approach for your family photography?

Kristen Kidd:
Oh yeah. Yeah. All of it. Again, like the only thing that was different was that there was a specific niche that was women in their dogs, but that had already been with, I had been photographing for the past two years, mostly a lot, a large portion of, and so that wasn't that different. And then tailoring a couple of the questions, but even that wasn't, you know, the questions weren't very much different at all. And then just the fact that I was putting them in a book. And that was the point was that for two years I had been hearing everything that was in that book, but I was like, women need to read this, they need to see this, they need to know that they're not alone. So I'm going to just do what I've been doing, but I'm gonna put it in a book and instead of taking the session fee, it's going to go to this rescue and we're going to do some good things in the world and we're all going to have a great day.

Andrew Hellmich:
Nice. Why were so many of your clients women and women with dogs? Was that by design?

Kristen Kidd:
It was serendipitous because again, my strongest relationship was with this rescue Harley's Haven and by nature of that environment, by nature of that avatar, we were talking about women who were volunteering with the rescue and participating in that rescue in one way or another. And they had four legged family members and then they have had a profound effect on their life. And so I would work with the rescue and develop relationships and have clients come to me through that rescue. And so serendipitously it would oftentimes be women in their dogs. And a lot of times it started with women in their dogs and maybe they had two legged kids and maybe they had a significant other and things like that. And so we would parse that out and see what the experience would be. But a lot of times they've at least started there.

Andrew Hellmich:
So good. Tell me about the book. Did you do the design, the layout, the types, all that kind of stuff, or

Kristen Kidd:
I did.

Andrew Hellmich:
You did, right? What did you use and who did the printing?

Kristen Kidd:
Yes, so I used Fundy to design it. So the whole entire book, all the photos, all the texts and everything is designed in Fundy. I had typed up all the stories, let me back up. So all the stories are recorded. And then when it came time to design the book, then I would listen to the stories. I would extrapolate what the story was that I wanted to convey. Maybe write an outline and then write a story off of that. And so that would be just like on my computer. So their story would be saved along with their file and all that kind of stuff. And then once they were all done, I would go into Fundy and I had gone through Lightroom and I had culled all of the photos that were potential to be in the book, like the best three, five photos, obviously they get one spread so there's not going to be a ton of photos that are going to be on that spread. It's going to be like two. So taking that and putting all of the contenders to be in the book, all of the cold contenders in a folder and then having all the stories and then putting it together in Fundy. So that's how the book came together.

Andrew Hellmich:
Just quickly with the copy, did you have a set number of words that you wanted to have or hit for each article or were you flexible?

Kristen Kidd:
No, no. I really wanted to be kind of like free flowing with that cause and I knew and I trusted that some stories were, well, some spreads were just a couple of quotes and I knew that that was going to happen. I knew it was just going to be like three quotes and four pages. Right. And then I knew some were going to be really story heavy and less photos. And then I just gave myself permission for that to happen. Like, and just trust that it was all gonna come together and flow in the way that it needed to flow.

Andrew Hellmich:
Kristen, you have been amazing. I'm so glad that Patrick contacted me from Social Wise. They've got us together.

Kristen Kidd:
Me too.

Andrew Hellmich:
And you've shared so much, I know the listener is going to absolutely love what you had to share. Where's the best place for the listener to see more of your work to see about the book project and maybe follow up with you in the future?

[Sound of passing train]

Andrew Hellmich:
What a great timing for the train.

Kristen Kidd:
I know. I know. I just, I just paused because I was like, you know what, it's going to be honking the horn like super loud. So let me just like, let it do it for a second before I actually answered. Okay. So people can find me at kristenkiddphotography.com. Currently they can follow Woman's Best Friend at womansbestfriendproject.com. I say currently because my beautiful PR people are working on streamlining my website so very soon all of Woman's Best Friend will be on kristenkiddphotography.com and again, social media wise, Kristen Kidd Photography, also on Facebook, The Lifestyle Dogtographer and on Instagram, the @womansbestfriendproject.

Andrew Hellmich:
I love it. Look, I'm going to add the links to all those in the show notes so the listener can easily come back, find those, click on those and find you everywhere and anywhere. I'll get you added into the member's Facebook Group as well cause I know there's going to be some follow up comments and questions. Kristen, you have been amazing. I'm looking forward to following how the next book goes and I just want to send massive thanks for coming on and sharing what you have.

Kristen Kidd:
Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on your show. It's been really awesome.